"Tunnel usenet over SSH? Have you ever USED usenet? "
I'm in any decent history about usenet.
I meant people could connect their newsreader to the nntp server of their choide through an ssh tunnel to read their news without their isp getting in the way if they blocked nntp port traffic
Obviously this is not menat for server to server news propogation. There's all sorts of tricks that can be played there that I won't go into here.
Not accurate. There was a time when a lot of poeple used to sit around and try to figure out who was forging messages from who. Erik Fair's "sendsys bomb" or Bob Webber was probably the most fun one. Erik wrote NNTP. Bob was one of the most amusing poeple on usenet but he annoyed some people. Anyway.
The bankpaths worked like this: site-a!site-b!site-c... and told the news software where the article had been, so it wouldn't send it there again, because usenet operates on a flood fill algoritm and sends an article to everybody.
So, if you were posting from, say a site called "example" but didn't want say "bekeley" to see it you'd manually set the bangpath to already have berkely in it, ie instead of the article coming from yourname!example you'd put yourname!berkely!example instead. This way your intended victem would never see the article, just the followups some time later (and in the uucp era that meant hours or a day or more).
Point is, by sticking "usenet.com" (or however they identify themselves) that article woulnd't go to usenet.com
1) The couple the racers hit ran a stop sign and were hit by a porsche going 6 miles over the limit 2) The man had a heart atack when hit and died. His wife died a few days later (not sure why) 3) The family of the deceased pleaded with the court to let him go. And they did.
Google Groups probably does more with usenet than anyone else.
But they still don't know what they're doing with it, sadly. "
Truer words were never spoken. Google doesn't really have a clue what usenet is nor do they give a shit about it. This was told to me by a google vp.
I'm the guy that tracked Henry Spencers (utzoo!henry) tapes and got them into uwo!magi's hands then into brewsters hands at archive.org then into dejanews. Google has *exaclty* the same content. The missing bits are where Henry's origial 9 track tapes could not be read by magi & co and transferred to DAT.
To give you some idea how bad it was every 12 feet of tape they had to stop, clean the heads and restart. I think it took 2 or 3 years to convert them all. Nobody in the world had the disk space to home them all till I pointed out Brewster did, and they sat as multi terabyte files on archive.org that nobody had the capacity to do anything with. We're talking about ALL of usenet here. The reason Henry kept all of usenet? A friend of his wanted all postings to rec.birds and Henry was just too lazy to pull only those out and tape was cheap.
Deja began archiving all of usenet from 1995 on. But they never split up the older posting archives which still sat as huge multi terabyte files they got from Brewster. "Marketing couldn't see the point of it" is the reason I was told by the deja techie that I directed to get them from archive.org (where they still live btw). When google aquired deja they found the big files, split them up and all or a sudden postings going back to 1988 or so suddenly appeared. A word in the right persons ear made this happen.
Most of what's written about this stuff in the NYT and Wired is just plain wrong. But as I said I guided those files to the right places for years and was there when it happened. I've had no problem finding any posting in google and don't understand how or why deja's search was "better".
Cheers,
Richard@gryphon.dead "It's too dark to put the keys in my ignition"
Re:I've seen the trickle down effects of piracy
on
RIAA Sues Usenet.com
·
· Score: 1
"Take a look at that old man in the middle of this picture. "
Sorry, I'm too busy staring at the girl on the right.
If you shut down usenet, you shut down usenet.....there is not "oh, well...lolz it will pop back up somewhere!"
Actually that's EXACTLY what happens.
Keep in mind 1) they're suiing usenet.com not "usenet" (usenet has no legal personality and cannot be sued) and 2) there are major usenet sites outside the US. There could very easiy be more.
You can connect via nntp to anywhere in the world. With an ssh tunnel your isp won't even know.
Ectually the uucp network was always larger than the TCP/IP network until July 1996. (Brian Reid, pers comms.)
Re:The average user does not know about usenet
on
RIAA Sues Usenet.com
·
· Score: 1
"Please, no. We don't need another Endless September. The last one just ended only 1 2/3 years ago."
Rubbish. And the wikipedia article is wrong, people were complaining about "it always beeing september" back in the 80s. Yet somehow, life goes on.
It's all relative. 3 years from wenever you get on usenet you suddenly realize it's full of dorks an it's always september. I first noticed this in 1989.
(I'll save Godwin some time and claim he said this first)
Streisanded on a desert island
on
RIAA Sues Usenet.com
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
"And if I remember correctly, it takes some work to create a new group "
Well... some found it difficult. But I never did.
Keep in mind what makes an "official" usenet group means it's on "the list" of newsgroup names maintained by spaf then dave lawrence and now vixie at isc.
Unofficially a group - any group or hierarchy - was real if decwrl carried it. That's how reid created alt, he just stuck it in decwrls distribution list. vixie woreked for him at the time writing bind and administering decwrl. hoptoad (gilmore) and nasa ames (moffet) picked it up and it spread out from there.
But, outside of the "big 7" (sci/comp/rec etc) and alt there are other hierarchies.
decwrl is alas sadly gone now, but reid and vixie still work together, now at ISC.
Making a new hierarchy would be as simple as the right email to the right person from the right person. There's a non-zero chance I'm one of those persons. I'm pretty sure paul won't like the idea. But that's just Paul.
Keep in mind there are serious usenet sites outside the us.
Antigua would be a good place for another one and this might be a good business oppertunity for somebody. As a long time self appointed expert on usenet naming I'd suggest the "pokertax" hierarchy. Or maybe the "riaa" hierarchy. Or "mpaa".
Perhaps to split things up to keep it easy to organize you'd want riaa.mp3, mpaa.video and pokertax.microsoft for starters.
"do I have to upgrade my copy of kermit to run it? "
Kermit support will be added soon. You'll have to use modem7 for now. There are rumors of a hacked version of xmodem working but only on (some) MP/M systems.
"Agreed, but he's also got a point. BMWs (at least the M5) are not built for this kind of stuff. Perhaps a Porsche 911 would've been more appropriate." "
Apparantly you own and/or maintain neither.
Despite all this rhetoric, he did it.
As somebody who has a stable of oldish German cars, one of them being a BMW (633Csi) and one of them having 700,000 kms on the clock that can still top 120mph (300SD) I'd argue vehemently that they are built for all day high speed runs. Not Italian cars and certainly not British cars. The Autobahn is partly the reason for this. German enginerring is another. They are meant for this sort of flogging, it's desinged in.
Given the attention to detail in the rest of the trip, my uninformed guess is the car was in as perfect a mechnaical condition as possible, quite possibly better than "factory new".
And as I said, the proof was in the pudding. He made it.
Yes but he didn't. He says he's a fast safe driver, has a top flight street racer car in good shape andhas never hit any body, ever.
"If he hit somebody". Yeah. If a meteroite hit him. If a Gamma ray burst wiped out all of earth. If a T. Rex crawled up out of the river in my backyard and bit me on the ass. If if if.
While he was doing this mad dash and not hitting anybody roughly 100 Americans died in car accidents many of who were doing under or around the speed limit. Speed doesn't kill, inattentiveness does.
And boy was he paying attention.
As an aside... I watched a DVD tonight ("The Invisible" - mediocre) that had one of those Anti-Piracy blurbs in it (You wouldn't steal a car...) and it went on "Piracy is a crime". Ironically, the trailer right before this? "Pirates of the Carribean".
We glamorize the outlaw. But only when they're history?
I think it was cool. But I think the plane was cheating.:-)
To ensure backward comparabillity. I'm a techno luddite. I got my first DVD drive this year and was slow to get CD drives. All my systems have floppy drives.
98 can be made to puke copying a big file from a floppy. If the floppy is bad you may as well reboot. Delete a few gigs from a hard drive and it goes awy for ages and will more often then not kill the gui task. This is very repeatable. Again, if the CD is bad, reboot.
I can make XP croak as well copying huge files from a CD or floppy which is handles very very badly (see 98). And my biggest drive is 20G (albeit a damn fast one). It seems to do ok copying big files from hard disk to hard disk but even with SCSI RAID with huge caches and the correct drivers you can't expect much left of your CPU when its doing this. Do two at once and you may as well go rebuild your transmission while you're waiting. Apparantly DMA and interrupts are unknown concepts at Redmond; PDP-11's did this just fine (unless you turned off DMA and interrupts in which case it was no faster than a 4Mhz Z-80 CP/M system)
There's really no excuse for this. In the days of 8 bit microprocessor systems we still went out and got the biggest pre-production drives we could to see if they'd copy ok. They may have filled a room but the Navy did indeed have 100 megs online pumping its data through an 8085. Eventually. We knew it'd work cause we tried it. This was 1981.
This is why they use real (IBM, SUN) computers to serve up say, the root or com zone. The root zone isn't big but the com zone is. Copying it isn't a problem on any unix system I've tried, just don't try to load it into BIND on anything but a massive computer or it'll just hang. And not gracefully either.
Windows is for games and sometimes works well enough to run some office tools. As long as you don't need accuracy.
Big files or LOTS of small files are a problem for computers. This isn't news folks. It's just sloppy carelessness.
By doing that they'd lose the domain in a hearbeat via the UDRP process. Domains are ruled by trademark issues (never mind there are laws as well) by contract with the registrar/registry - read the fine print when you register a domain and copyright doesn't enter into it. You'd need to go to court for that, but fuck with somebody's trademark and you don't need to go to court. WIPO will take your domain away.
Slashdot Mirror
"Tunnel usenet over SSH? Have you ever USED usenet? "
I'm in any decent history about usenet.
I meant people could connect their newsreader to the nntp server of their choide through an ssh tunnel to read their news without their isp getting in the way if they blocked nntp port traffic
Obviously this is not menat for server to server news propogation. There's all sorts of tricks that can be played there that I won't go into here.
Cheers,
Richard Sexton
"Follow the Path of bangs. "
Not accurate. There was a time when a lot of poeple used to sit around and try to figure out who was forging messages from who. Erik Fair's "sendsys bomb" or Bob Webber was probably the most fun one. Erik wrote NNTP. Bob was one of the most amusing poeple on usenet but he annoyed some people. Anyway.
The bankpaths worked like this: site-a!site-b!site-c... and told the news software where the article had been, so it wouldn't send it there again, because usenet operates on a flood fill algoritm and sends an article to everybody.
So, if you were posting from, say a site called "example" but didn't want say "bekeley" to see it you'd manually set the bangpath to already have berkely in it, ie instead of the article coming from yourname!example you'd put yourname!berkely!example instead. This way your intended victem would never see the article, just the followups some time later (and in the uucp era that meant hours or a day or more).
Point is, by sticking "usenet.com" (or however they identify themselves) that article woulnd't go to usenet.com
This is how you blackhole news servers.
"you can be attentive as hell, and still get yourself and/or other killed. That is a FACT
Sounds more like an UNPROVED ASSERTION to me.
The only poeple to die in one of these high speed thingies is a couple who ran a stop sign.
Other than that, they've proven to be safer than the average major highway on a holiday weekend with people doing the speed limit.
To be fair:
1) The couple the racers hit ran a stop sign and were hit by a porsche going 6 miles over the limit
2) The man had a heart atack when hit and died. His wife died a few days later (not sure why)
3) The family of the deceased pleaded with the court to let him go. And they did.
(Geez it's old homeie week. Hi Tim.)
"How long before they take on Google Groups?
Do they carry alt.binaries.*?
Google Groups probably does more with usenet than anyone else.
But they still don't know what they're doing with it, sadly. "
Truer words were never spoken. Google doesn't really have a clue what usenet is nor do they give a shit about it. This was told to me by a google vp.
I'm the guy that tracked Henry Spencers (utzoo!henry) tapes and got them into uwo!magi's hands then into brewsters hands at archive.org then into dejanews. Google has *exaclty* the same content. The missing bits are where Henry's origial 9 track tapes could not be read by magi & co and transferred to DAT.
To give you some idea how bad it was every 12 feet of tape they had to stop, clean the heads and restart. I think it took 2 or 3 years to convert them all. Nobody in the world had the disk space to home them all till I pointed out Brewster did, and they sat as multi terabyte files on archive.org that nobody had the capacity to do anything with. We're talking about ALL of usenet here. The reason Henry kept all of usenet? A friend of his wanted all postings to rec.birds and Henry was just too lazy to pull only those out and tape was cheap.
Deja began archiving all of usenet from 1995 on. But they never split up the older posting archives which still sat as huge multi terabyte files they got from Brewster. "Marketing couldn't see the point of it" is the reason I was told by the deja techie that I directed to get them from archive.org (where they still live btw). When google aquired deja they found the big files, split them up and all or a sudden postings going back to 1988 or so suddenly appeared. A word in the right persons ear made this happen.
Most of what's written about this stuff in the NYT and Wired is just plain wrong. But as I said I guided those files to the right places for years and was there when it happened. I've had no problem finding any posting in google and don't understand how or why deja's search was "better".
Cheers,
Richard@gryphon.dead
"It's too dark to put the keys in my ignition"
"Take a look at that old man in the middle of this picture. "
Sorry, I'm too busy staring at the girl on the right.
" "post one piece to soc.singles"
Finally. Something worth reading in soc.singles.
I've only waited 22 years.
If you shut down usenet, you shut down usenet.....there is not "oh, well...lolz it will pop back up somewhere!"
Actually that's EXACTLY what happens.
Keep in mind 1) they're suiing usenet.com not "usenet" (usenet has no legal personality and cannot be sued) and 2) there are major usenet sites outside the US. There could very easiy be more.
You can connect via nntp to anywhere in the world. With an ssh tunnel your isp won't even know.
Ectually the uucp network was always larger than the TCP/IP network until July 1996. (Brian Reid, pers comms.)
"Please, no. We don't need another Endless September. The last one just ended only 1 2/3 years ago."
Rubbish. And the wikipedia article is wrong, people were complaining about "it always beeing september" back in the 80s. Yet somehow, life goes on.
It's all relative. 3 years from wenever you get on usenet you suddenly realize it's full of dorks an it's always september. I first noticed this in 1989.
(I'll save Godwin some time and claim he said this first)
"And if I remember correctly, it takes some work to create a new group "
Well... some found it difficult. But I never did.
Keep in mind what makes an "official" usenet group means it's on "the list" of newsgroup names maintained by spaf then dave lawrence and now vixie at isc.
Unofficially a group - any group or hierarchy - was real if decwrl carried it. That's how reid created alt, he just stuck it in decwrls distribution list. vixie woreked for him at the time writing bind and administering decwrl. hoptoad (gilmore) and nasa ames (moffet) picked it up and it spread out from there.
But, outside of the "big 7" (sci/comp/rec etc) and alt there are other hierarchies.
decwrl is alas sadly gone now, but reid and vixie still work together, now at ISC.
Making a new hierarchy would be as simple as the right email to the right person from the right person. There's a non-zero chance I'm one of those persons. I'm pretty sure paul won't like the idea. But that's just Paul.
Keep in mind there are serious usenet sites outside the us.
Antigua would be a good place for another one and this might be a good business oppertunity for somebody. As a long time self appointed expert on usenet naming I'd suggest the "pokertax" hierarchy. Or maybe the "riaa" hierarchy. Or "mpaa".
Perhaps to split things up to keep it easy to organize you'd want riaa.mp3, mpaa.video and pokertax.microsoft for starters.
"do I have to upgrade my copy of kermit to run it? "
Kermit support will be added soon. You'll have to use modem7 for now. There are rumors of a hacked version of xmodem working but only on (some) MP/M systems.
"Keeps only one copy of cross-posted articl..."
This is done already. Always has been.
You'd need a beowulf cluster of giganewses to do the rest.
The binaries were a mistake. Peter da Silva gets the blame for this. Course, I blame him for everything anyway.
"Usenet is a sewer. Don't waste soap trying to clean it" - Brian Reid
"You misspelled kibo. "
Misepelling things is how usenet grows.
Alt didn't come till well after 1970.
It was net.* and mod.*, later, the comp/sci/rec etc hierarchies.
Alt happened around this time when some anal retentive twits pissed off Brian Reid and Jon Gilmore.
See Hardy:The History of the Net
Master's Thesis
School of Communications
Grand Valley State University
Allendale, MI 49401
Where's my cut you bastard? We both know it was worth nothing without sci.aquaria.
(hi)
"Agreed, but he's also got a point. BMWs (at least the M5) are not built for this kind of stuff. Perhaps a Porsche 911 would've been more appropriate." "
Apparantly you own and/or maintain neither.
Despite all this rhetoric, he did it.
As somebody who has a stable of oldish German cars, one of them being a BMW (633Csi) and one of them having 700,000 kms on the clock that can still top 120mph (300SD) I'd argue vehemently that they are built for all day high speed runs. Not Italian cars and certainly not British cars. The Autobahn is partly the reason for this. German enginerring is another. They are meant for this sort of flogging, it's desinged in.
Given the attention to detail in the rest of the trip, my uninformed guess is the car was in as perfect a mechnaical condition as possible, quite possibly better than "factory new".
And as I said, the proof was in the pudding. He made it.
" If"
:-)
Yes but he didn't. He says he's a fast safe driver, has a top flight street racer car in good shape andhas never hit any body, ever.
"If he hit somebody". Yeah. If a meteroite hit him. If a Gamma ray burst wiped out all of earth. If a T. Rex crawled up out of the river in my backyard and bit me on the ass. If if if.
While he was doing this mad dash and not hitting anybody roughly 100 Americans died in car accidents many of who were doing under or around the speed limit. Speed doesn't kill, inattentiveness does.
And boy was he paying attention.
As an aside... I watched a DVD tonight ("The Invisible" - mediocre) that had one of those Anti-Piracy blurbs in it (You wouldn't steal a car...) and it went on "Piracy is a crime". Ironically, the trailer right before this? "Pirates of the Carribean".
We glamorize the outlaw. But only when they're history?
I think it was cool. But I think the plane was cheating.
" That's not to say that Microsoft didn't fuck this one up, but it's certainly not as simple an operation as you might think. "
If the list of files to be copied is small, keep it in ram. If it's big keep it in a file.
Yes it's a performance hit if you keep it in a file, but you're copying a gajillion files you'll not notice.
This aint rocket science.
Yes but it can be fixed, or rather, worked around. It's been this way for literally decades.
" Cake, and grief counseling. "
Close but no cigar.
"How the F%$^ can this be a problem?"
To ensure backward comparabillity. I'm a techno luddite. I got my first DVD drive this year and was slow to get CD drives. All my systems have floppy drives.
98 can be made to puke copying a big file from a floppy. If the floppy is bad you may as well reboot. Delete a few gigs from a hard drive and it goes awy for ages and will more often then not kill the gui task. This is very repeatable. Again, if the CD is bad, reboot.
I can make XP croak as well copying huge files from a CD or floppy which is handles very very badly (see 98). And my biggest drive is 20G (albeit a damn fast one). It seems to do ok copying big files from hard disk to hard disk but even with SCSI RAID with huge caches and the correct drivers you can't expect much left of your CPU when its doing this. Do two at once and you may as well go rebuild your transmission while you're waiting. Apparantly DMA and interrupts are unknown concepts at Redmond; PDP-11's did this just fine (unless you turned off DMA and interrupts in which case it was no faster than a 4Mhz Z-80 CP/M system)
There's really no excuse for this. In the days of 8 bit microprocessor systems we still went out and got the biggest pre-production drives we could to see if they'd copy ok. They may have filled a room but the Navy did indeed have 100 megs online pumping its data through an 8085. Eventually. We knew it'd work cause we tried it. This was 1981.
This is why they use real (IBM, SUN) computers to serve up say, the root or com zone. The root zone isn't big but the com zone is. Copying it isn't a problem on any unix system I've tried, just don't try to load it into BIND on anything but a massive computer or it'll just hang. And not gracefully either.
Windows is for games and sometimes works well enough to run some office tools. As long as you don't need accuracy.
Big files or LOTS of small files are a problem for computers. This isn't news folks. It's just sloppy carelessness.
Uh yeah. The detective work here involved finding some wet connectors. And it didn't sound that complicated to me.
Try debugging the electrics on an 80s BMW some time. The manual for the door locks is 3 pages thick.
Hint: fuse 11 is not your friend.
Not that long ago. But then I do have a pornographic memory.
By doing that they'd lose the domain in a hearbeat via the UDRP process. Domains are ruled by trademark issues (never mind there are laws as well) by contract with the registrar/registry - read the fine print when you register a domain and copyright doesn't enter into it. You'd need to go to court for that, but fuck with somebody's trademark and you don't need to go to court. WIPO will take your domain away.