"I used to design full page ads and Yellow Pages ads on the ST"
That's nice. I typeset a book, first to a Lserwriter then to a Linotronic for 1200dpi film output and ran UUCP connectivity for Los Angeles on my Amiga.
At the time I bought my Amiga (serial # 11) I was working for a PC graphics card company. Back then there was only one PC video card that would do what the Amiga did, the IBM professional graphics controller or "PGC". I'm not sure anybody actually bought one, it was $2500 whereas the Amiga was $1000 and had all sorts of added video goodies that blew even the PGC well and truly out of the water.
Matt Dillon (Dragonfly BSD/FreeBSD) ported bash to the Amiga. There were a couple of UUCP packages - Amigas were shuttling news and mail around in the pre-internet era while Atari's barely worked with a modem to connect to a BBS.
The Amiga had a real C compiler and was the first home computer that gave you access to a 68k's linear address space, some people bought them because of this and didn't even care about the graphics.
Jim Macraz OS gave you the ability to pull a window from background to foreground faster than probably any OS even today. Certainly faster than the relatively contemporary wintel box I'm (sigh, reluctantly) typing this on.
Dpaint III made the less capable photoshop-to-come-later look stupid, overly complex and arcane. To this day I'd pretty much kill for a PC clone of Dpaint. That and that alone made then SIGGRAPH-only graphics possible for home users that didn't have access to clusters of Apollo workstations. Leo Schwab (Hi Leo!) knocked off Pixar's first serious animation ("Red's Dream") in a weekend which got him in a slight amount of trouble with Pixar.
I formatted a book (a manual for a piece of software) on my Amiga with some simple postscript software I wrote that took runoff commands, first to a postscript priter then right to a Linotronic that set film. The software the manual was for was called "The Director" - Keith Doyle's animation scripting language later ripped off by Macromedia which later begat flash.
There was a port of Word Perfect for the Amiga. God only knows what'd happen if 1-2-3 and dbase had been ported. Knowing what I now know about IBM I suspect they paid people not to port to the Amiga as rumors of these ports existed at the time.
As for music, that's great the article can dig up some wonk nobody's heard of that still uses a (spit) ST. I met Todd Rungren at some Amiga function in LA, more musicians used Amigas than STs. Never mind the (scifi) TV shows that used Amiags for video work. I'm trying to think of something the ST did right. Umm...
In its day the Amiga was the best computer you could buy for virtually anything. It's just that its day lasted only about 2 years, but it was still probably the most amazing computer ever built. When Microsoft finally released a copy of Windows that would stay up for more than 10 minutes (3.1) the Amiga was doomed. Previous versions of windows, 1, 2, 3.0 when compared against the Amiga came off looking like a Trabant compared to an MB SLR.
Any article that tries to show how the best never made it and picked the ST over the Amiga is seriously flawed to put it mildly.
Anything you do on a computer today we did on an Amiga 20 years ago well before PC's and Mac's could even come close. Open source got its first jump start there. It was unixy enough to keep us sated. It had scsi (albeit an add on, but the box had a connector to allow for such add ons).
The late 80's were a heady time because of this box and the computing wrld has been a time wasting x86/win nightmare ever sice that we're still barely out of.
If you look up "it's a real shame" in Wikipedia you'll find a picture of an Amiga 1000.
I suppose it it's any reconcilliation, I eschewed the flakey Commodore 1070 monitor for a Sony KV1311CR, a vastly superior monitor that I still have and still use for some things while the Amiga, it's SCSI subsystem and all those new at the time (as in $50 for 10) high density floppies sit languishing in the barn. Just for the memories I'd never get rid of it.
Yeah probably, but I can't spall enyting write. If yu ask him I don't think he'd mined. I know Charlie; the point is important, the spelling isnt't. You were able to figure it out, right?
"A couple of law professors are not representatives of the school"
Heh. Charlie Neesan is not just "a professor". He's a law professor that started the Berkmen Center for Law and Technology. He's the last guy in America the RIAA wants to annoy. Where do you think Lessig got his ieas on coyright from? He was a student of Charlie's. Charlie is way cool.
Neesan's point is simple and quite legal: the RIAA should not outsource their investigation to universities.
To put it in historical perspective, Tim took MIME that Einar Stefferud invented (Stef also invented and ran the first mailing list) and HTML (which came indirectly from Brian Reid's PhD thesis, brian also invented the firewall and alta vista) and glommed them all together and invented http. You can see Tim talking about this in comp.infosystems.www in the late 80s early 90s.
Pity there was no internet to shuffle all those usenet articles and mail about. No doubt that would have helped.
Ogg what? Jesus there's a gopher link on that page I can't open either.
I'm not saying I'd download the talk if it were mpg or something (although I could, with ease) but it seems to me anybody that wants to get their message out might on a serious basis might want to investigate a little thing we used to call "text".
I write for a (non-tech) magazine. From the time I finish an article, email it to them and have it show up at my door in the magazine it's about 4 months. And scarcely anything in the magazine cannot be found on the net or an answer can be found to any question the magazine might answer.
"You're telling me that any kind of orange juice is bad for you? Geez. It really is true what they say, just about anything that tastes nice is bad for you. "
Cocaine is bad for you too. But it makes you feel really good. At least for a while.
Man didn't evolve ating very much fruit at all. We can't handle the sugar. End of story.
I can't find it now but there was a study done last year if memory serves, by the heart and cancer societies. 50,000 poeple over 10 years. Half of them were on a low fat high fibre diet while the other half ate normally.
The difference in cancer and heart disease rates? Zero point zero.
They think maybe now the Mediterranian diet (garlic, olive oil) might help instead. Duh. Double duh.
It's a vicous cycle. The more (of that crap) they eat, the more they want; fructose doesn't inhibit the appetite like real food does.
So you have somebody already with a control problem and then thorugh political machincations make nothing available to them except stuff that makes their problem worse.
Keep in mind we pay the government to take care of our health and safety. That's really what they're there for.
Try finding a canned soup that doesn't have MSG in it either. Or a soup mix. I dare you. It's like trying to find something in Wal Mart not made in China. You can probably do it but it may take you a while.
I love soup mix ingredients. In order: "Wheat flour, MSG..."
Jesus.
Somebody said a few pages back "other people are getting fat too". Yeah, but yo uhave to understand there's a special kind of shock and horror for a European or even a Canadian going to the states. It is truly truly scary the fat people you have. We're just not used to seeing this.
Stick rice in a pot on the stove on high. Add twice as much water as rice. Cook till it craters. Turn down to low for 5 minutes and cover. Turn the stove off. Wait 15 minutes. Done.
While rice is better for you than wheat it's still a cab and you'd be better off not eating it, or certainly not eating it too much or too often. It may be handy for keeping some poeple from starving to death, but you are what you eat and we're not a stalk of grass.
5-10,000 years ago man shifted from a hunter gatherer to agricultural society and grains and dairy suddenly made up a large part of mans diet. This is coincident with the sudden and rapid increase in biabetes, obesity and heart disease.
Now we eat foods that we made up (wheat, corn, rice in their present form didn't exit 10,000 years ago) and suddenly expect that our two million years on this planet means nothing and that we'll be fine with this crap.
My great grandmother used to say starches will give you diabetes and everybody laughed at her. But she was right, we simply never evolved to eat this crap, it was for the serfs to stop them from starving and who really cares about their health.
In the 1920's Rnglish railroad crews building tracks would swing a sledge hammer 8 hours a day. The only way they could keep this up was by eating 2 pounds of meat a day. You simply can't do this on rice and potatos.
Why do we feed chickens and cows corn? Because it makes them fat. Chickens normally eat worms and bugs and cows normally eat grass which then can digest because of their 4 stomachs and the extra intestinal flora they posess.
I moved from California back to Canada in 1990 and stopped, inasmuch as I can, eating anything a neanderthal wouldn't eat. And lsot 60 pounds and got back down to my high school waste size. If I cheap and eat say, pizza (mmmmm, pizza) my waist size goes up again forcing me to knock it off for a while.
"Try making a curry at home, it'd take you six months to track down all the spices. And then try making popadoms or mango chutney.."
Huh? My family had made mango chutney for 50 years. We're not Indian. I have blond hair, my mother's a redhead and we're British.
As for finding spices to make curry from scratch we've done that for decades too. You can be an idiot and buy the $4 spices in glass jars of go to a bulk food place and pay thirty cents instead for the same thing sans glass jar.
"Don't the British use corn sugar as table sugar?"
No.
Keep in mind corn is virtually unknown in the UK. We moved here in 64 and my parents were shocked people ate corn. As far as they were concerned it was good only for feeding chickens.
Corn on the cob? Corn as a side dish? Corn in fried rice? Never happens over there. It's for chickens.
Go to any dating site then look at what Americans consider "average" body size to be. Then look at what they consider "thin" to be. "Thin" in the US corresponds to "average" in the UK.
Also, take a look at any current yearbook class pictrure then look at one from 30 years ago. Today a thinn kid sticks out as unusual. Back then a fat kid stood out as unusual.
"Heh, the seem a bit gross to me too, even without a soda-fast, but after one week, I'm still craving the damn things. It doesn't help that my town (actually, every town I've ever lived in) has let the water supply get all awful-tasting."
Growing up in the 50s'/60s UK soda was a rare (maybe once a year) luxury; when we moved to Canada nobody thought it was a good idea even though it wasn't expensive any more. Our family just doesn't drink that stuff as a matter of course.
"Not to mention the airlines not charging double for people who clearly need two seats. It's all well and good for the airlines to try to be compassionate with people who are sensitive about their weight, but if their weight is oozing into seat-space I've paid for, then the airlines are being compassionate at my expense and not their own."
Here's what you do. Laser print up some cards that say your an attorney. If you have a seat that has half a fat person on it, calmly and politely hand the card to a stewie and say the magic words "I'm an attorney, where is my seat? Would you like me to point out your responsabilities as a carrier under the law"
I saw this done once my god they snap to attention and wake up. I asked the guy later on, he was a tech support guy for HP that had learned this someplace along the line.
I tried it once in Chicago when the plane had screwed up and we were supposed to have an unscheduled 8 hour layover. If you do this you get put on some other carriers plane while the rest of the poor saps twiddle their thumbs for 8 hours.
"Nothing better then some ice cold green tea drink after a hard night of partying on a hungover morning; but I digress) I had to see yet one vending machines selling panties."
I had a girlfriend who lived in Japan for 10 years up until 4 years ago. She's seen lots of them in the subways. Another friend of mine worked in Japan for a while, he told me about them years ago
It's not clear to me an actual case has been made that warrents the $500.
Moreso, the "bugs" describes above can be "features" to somebody else. I appreciate the brevity of Dan's code; C++ LongVariableNames make me throw up a little in my mouth.
What's wrong with replacing the Standard C Library? Now you know what you're dealing with. Exactly.
If your C program exits and doesn't deallocate memoru your O/S is broken.
Given the number of sites that run djbdns and qmail and the number of CERT advisories against them (zero) I really can't fault it too much.
The BIND code has lots of descriptive stuff in it. And lots of CERT advisories.
You might find when you've written a very large amount of C code that it has to make sense to you; in the context of the code itself the names do mean something, just not to the casual observer.
The sludge will just sit on the bottom. I hate to say it but historically this sort of thing hasn't proved to me much of an issue.
Ammonia is a plant fertilizer - and nitrogen is expensive these days. It'll up the algae level unless some bright spak can find a way to sell it to farmers.
Slashdot Mirror
"Bear in mind; the CPU was faster, the operating system and desktop were in ROM"
How special. It was only 12% faster and CPU upgrades for the Amiga could be had third-party.
You had Basic and MIDI. We had a C compiler and bash and uucp.
Porting of unix to home computers began on Amigas, not PC's or Atari's or Macs.
"I used to design full page ads and Yellow Pages ads on the ST"
That's nice. I typeset a book, first to a Lserwriter then to a Linotronic for 1200dpi film output and ran UUCP connectivity for Los Angeles on my Amiga.
At the same time.
ST? Render unto me a fucking break.
At the time I bought my Amiga (serial # 11) I was working for a PC graphics card company. Back then there was only one PC video card that would do what the Amiga did, the IBM professional graphics controller or "PGC". I'm not sure anybody actually bought one, it was $2500 whereas the Amiga was $1000 and had all sorts of added video goodies that blew even the PGC well and truly out of the water.
Matt Dillon (Dragonfly BSD/FreeBSD) ported bash to the Amiga. There were a couple of UUCP packages - Amigas were shuttling news and mail around in the pre-internet era while Atari's barely worked with a modem to connect to a BBS.
The Amiga had a real C compiler and was the first home computer that gave you access to a 68k's linear address space, some people bought them because of this and didn't even care about the graphics.
Jim Macraz OS gave you the ability to pull a window from background to foreground faster than probably any OS even today. Certainly faster than the relatively contemporary wintel box I'm (sigh, reluctantly) typing this on.
Dpaint III made the less capable photoshop-to-come-later look stupid, overly complex and arcane. To this day I'd pretty much kill for a PC clone of Dpaint. That and that alone made then SIGGRAPH-only graphics possible for home users that didn't have access to clusters of Apollo workstations. Leo Schwab (Hi Leo!) knocked off Pixar's first serious animation ("Red's Dream") in a weekend which got him in a slight amount of trouble with Pixar.
I formatted a book (a manual for a piece of software) on my Amiga with some simple postscript software I wrote that took runoff commands, first to a postscript priter then right to a Linotronic that set film. The software the manual was for was called "The Director" - Keith Doyle's animation scripting language later ripped off by Macromedia which later begat flash.
There was a port of Word Perfect for the Amiga. God only knows what'd happen if 1-2-3 and dbase had been ported. Knowing what I now know about IBM I suspect they paid people not to port to the Amiga as rumors of these ports existed at the time.
As for music, that's great the article can dig up some wonk nobody's heard of that still uses a (spit) ST. I met Todd Rungren at some Amiga function in LA, more musicians used Amigas than STs. Never mind the (scifi) TV shows that used Amiags for video work. I'm trying to think of something the ST did right. Umm...
In its day the Amiga was the best computer you could buy for virtually anything. It's just that its day lasted only about 2 years, but it was still probably the most amazing computer ever built. When Microsoft finally released a copy of Windows that would stay up for more than 10 minutes (3.1) the Amiga was doomed. Previous versions of windows, 1, 2, 3.0 when compared against the Amiga came off looking like a Trabant compared to an MB SLR.
Any article that tries to show how the best never made it and picked the ST over the Amiga is seriously flawed to put it mildly.
Anything you do on a computer today we did on an Amiga 20 years ago well before PC's and Mac's could even come close. Open source got its first jump start there. It was unixy enough to keep us sated. It had scsi (albeit an add on, but the box had a connector to allow for such add ons).
The late 80's were a heady time because of this box and the computing wrld has been a time wasting x86/win nightmare ever sice that we're still barely out of.
If you look up "it's a real shame" in Wikipedia you'll find a picture of an Amiga 1000.
I suppose it it's any reconcilliation, I eschewed the flakey Commodore 1070 monitor for a Sony KV1311CR, a vastly superior monitor that I still have and still use for some things while the Amiga, it's SCSI subsystem and all those new at the time (as in $50 for 10) high density floppies sit languishing in the barn. Just for the memories I'd never get rid of it.
ST? It is to laugh...
Yeah probably, but I can't spall enyting write. If yu ask him I don't think he'd mined. I know Charlie; the point is important, the spelling isnt't. You were able to figure it out, right?
"A couple of law professors are not representatives of the school"
Heh. Charlie Neesan is not just "a professor". He's a law professor that started the Berkmen Center for Law and Technology. He's the last guy in America the RIAA wants to annoy. Where do you think Lessig got his ieas on coyright from? He was a student of Charlie's. Charlie is way cool.
Neesan's point is simple and quite legal: the RIAA should not outsource their investigation to universities.
To put it in historical perspective, Tim took MIME that Einar Stefferud invented (Stef also invented and ran the first mailing list) and HTML (which came indirectly from Brian Reid's PhD thesis, brian also invented the firewall and alta vista) and glommed them all together and invented http. You can see Tim talking about this in comp.infosystems.www in the late 80s early 90s.
Pity there was no internet to shuffle all those usenet articles and mail about. No doubt that would have helped.
Gah.
"since Tim Berners-Lee, widely considered a creator of the current version of the Internet"
Yeah, right.
Ogg what? Jesus there's a gopher link on that page I can't open either.
I'm not saying I'd download the talk if it were mpg or something (although I could, with ease) but it seems to me anybody that wants to get their message out might on a serious basis might want to investigate a little thing we used to call "text".
Damn, somebody said "Good" first. I was gonna.
I write for a (non-tech) magazine. From the time I finish an article, email it to them and have it show up at my door in the magazine it's about 4 months. And scarcely anything in the magazine cannot be found on the net or an answer can be found to any question the magazine might answer.
Print media is dying. That's news?
They sure look purdy on my bookshelf though.
"You're telling me that any kind of orange juice is bad for you? Geez. It really is true what they say, just about anything that tastes nice is bad for you. "
Cocaine is bad for you too. But it makes you feel really good. At least for a while.
Man didn't evolve ating very much fruit at all. We can't handle the sugar. End of story.
Thank you. Finally, somebody gets it.
I can't find it now but there was a study done last year if memory serves, by the heart and cancer societies. 50,000 poeple over 10 years. Half of them were on a low fat high fibre diet while the other half ate normally.
The difference in cancer and heart disease rates? Zero point zero.
They think maybe now the Mediterranian diet (garlic, olive oil) might help instead. Duh. Double duh.
It's a vicous cycle. The more (of that crap) they eat, the more they want; fructose doesn't inhibit the appetite like real food does.
So you have somebody already with a control problem and then thorugh political machincations make nothing available to them except stuff that makes their problem worse.
Keep in mind we pay the government to take care of our health and safety. That's really what they're there for.
I doubt future historians will be kind to them.
"but all my favorite foods are meat -- red meat in particular."
That makes sense. What you're trying to fuel is red meat.
You might find this interesting:
http://thebear.org/essays1.html#anchor496162
"It is happily embeded in canned soups"
Try finding a canned soup that doesn't have MSG in it either. Or a soup mix. I dare you. It's like trying to find something in Wal Mart not made in China. You can probably do it but it may take you a while.
I love soup mix ingredients. In order: "Wheat flour, MSG..."
Jesus.
Somebody said a few pages back "other people are getting fat too". Yeah, but yo uhave to understand there's a special kind of shock and horror for a European or even a Canadian going to the states. It is truly truly scary the fat people you have. We're just not used to seeing this.
That's too complicated a rice recipe.
Stick rice in a pot on the stove on high. Add twice as much water as rice. Cook till it craters. Turn down to low for 5 minutes and cover. Turn the stove off. Wait 15 minutes. Done.
While rice is better for you than wheat it's still a cab and you'd be better off not eating it, or certainly not eating it too much or too often. It may be handy for keeping some poeple from starving to death, but you are what you eat and we're not a stalk of grass.
5-10,000 years ago man shifted from a hunter gatherer to agricultural society and grains and dairy suddenly made up a large part of mans diet. This is coincident with the sudden and rapid increase in biabetes, obesity and heart disease.
Now we eat foods that we made up (wheat, corn, rice in their present form didn't exit 10,000 years ago) and suddenly expect that our two million years on this planet means nothing and that we'll be fine with this crap.
My great grandmother used to say starches will give you diabetes and everybody laughed at her. But she was right, we simply never evolved to eat this crap, it was for the serfs to stop them from starving and who really cares about their health.
In the 1920's Rnglish railroad crews building tracks would swing a sledge hammer 8 hours a day. The only way they could keep this up was by eating 2 pounds of meat a day. You simply can't do this on rice and potatos.
Why do we feed chickens and cows corn? Because it makes them fat. Chickens normally eat worms and bugs and cows normally eat grass which then can digest because of their 4 stomachs and the extra intestinal flora they posess.
I moved from California back to Canada in 1990 and stopped, inasmuch as I can, eating anything a neanderthal wouldn't eat. And lsot 60 pounds and got back down to my high school waste size. If I cheap and eat say, pizza (mmmmm, pizza) my waist size goes up again forcing me to knock it off for a while.
"Try making a curry at home, it'd take you six months to track down all the spices. And then try making popadoms or mango chutney.."
Huh? My family had made mango chutney for 50 years. We're not Indian. I have blond hair, my mother's a redhead and we're British.
As for finding spices to make curry from scratch we've done that for decades too. You can be an idiot and buy the $4 spices in glass jars of go to a bulk food place and pay thirty cents instead for the same thing sans glass jar.
We're not big on popadoms.
"Don't the British use corn sugar as table sugar?"
No.
Keep in mind corn is virtually unknown in the UK. We moved here in 64 and my parents were shocked people ate corn. As far as they were concerned it was good only for feeding chickens.
Corn on the cob? Corn as a side dish? Corn in fried rice? Never happens over there. It's for chickens.
Go to any dating site then look at what Americans consider "average" body size to be. Then look at what they consider "thin" to be. "Thin" in the US corresponds to "average" in the UK.
Also, take a look at any current yearbook class pictrure then look at one from 30 years ago. Today a thinn kid sticks out as unusual. Back then a fat kid stood out as unusual.
That must explain why Arctic grown olive oil is so good for you.
And if you think Canola oil is good for you I suggest you keep reading. Keyword: hydrogen.
"Heh, the seem a bit gross to me too, even without a soda-fast, but after one week, I'm still craving the damn things. It doesn't help that my town (actually, every town I've ever lived in) has let the water supply get all awful-tasting."
Growing up in the 50s'/60s UK soda was a rare (maybe once a year) luxury; when we moved to Canada nobody thought it was a good idea even though it wasn't expensive any more. Our family just doesn't drink that stuff as a matter of course.
"Not to mention the airlines not charging double for people who clearly need two seats. It's all well and good for the airlines to try to be compassionate with people who are sensitive about their weight, but if their weight is oozing into seat-space I've paid for, then the airlines are being compassionate at my expense and not their own."
Here's what you do. Laser print up some cards that say your an attorney. If you have a seat that has half a fat person on it, calmly and politely hand the card to a stewie and say the magic words "I'm an attorney, where is my seat? Would you like me to point out your responsabilities as a carrier under the law"
I saw this done once my god they snap to attention and wake up. I asked the guy later on, he was a tech support guy for HP that had learned this someplace along the line.
I tried it once in Chicago when the plane had screwed up and we were supposed to have an unscheduled 8 hour layover. If you do this you get put on some other carriers plane while the rest of the poor saps twiddle their thumbs for 8 hours.
"Nothing better then some ice cold green tea drink after a hard night of partying on a hungover morning; but I digress) I had to see yet one vending machines selling panties."
I had a girlfriend who lived in Japan for 10 years up until 4 years ago. She's seen lots of them in the subways. Another friend of mine worked in Japan for a while, he told me about them years ago
You need to read up on Cargill, son.
It's not clear to me an actual case has been made that warrents the $500.
Moreso, the "bugs" describes above can be "features" to somebody else. I appreciate the brevity of Dan's code; C++ LongVariableNames make me throw up a little in my mouth.
What's wrong with replacing the Standard C Library? Now you know what you're dealing with. Exactly.
If your C program exits and doesn't deallocate memoru your O/S is broken.
Given the number of sites that run djbdns and qmail and the number of CERT advisories against them (zero) I really can't fault it too much.
The BIND code has lots of descriptive stuff in it. And lots of CERT advisories.
You might find when you've written a very large amount of C code that it has to make sense to you; in the context of the code itself the names do mean something, just not to the casual observer.
The sludge will just sit on the bottom. I hate to say it but historically this sort of thing hasn't proved to me much of an issue.
Ammonia is a plant fertilizer - and nitrogen is expensive these days. It'll up the algae level unless some bright spak can find a way to sell it to farmers.
"And don't forget that postfix is well-commented,"
In all fairness, nobody has ever cashed in on Bernstein's security guarentee. There have been some oopsies with postfix.
I think Bernstein's code is as nice as it gets. Course, Dan is polite to me too; so maybe I live in an alternative universe.
"Some of them still don't know why we looked at them that way the next day."
It's called "shock" and is what happens the first time you see sister naked, lying next to your roomate.