See, you're doing it. Twisting points, "this is just stupid", "that's false", "few examples I saw/didn't saw settle the matter", "Bible itself is correct, some/most just lack understanding"
Anything goes...
PS. It's always cute how, when religions are responsible for something "bad", religious folks go with "ahh, but that's just human nature" story...but of course when everything is "good", they are the ones to thank. Cute:)
They question the doctrine except for questioning the notion that Protestantism / Christanity is ultimatelly correct and any incosistencies are simply a limit of our understanding. Everything else just follows from that. Every BS can follow from that.
And you really argue that what vast majority of Christians stand for is NOT what Christanity ultimatelly represents? Really?
That makes no sense. You literally can't back that up so it's meaningful.
You really don't know that religions are built around certain dogmas?...
That quote from House implies something obvious which you're trying not to see, "...reasoned with in the matters of religion". Religions obviously require suspension of disbelief, accepting things which are supposedly above reason (which too often leeches over to other areas, unfortunatelly)...you want to tell me you don't know that?
See, rational arguments simply don't work; not against something which in vast, vast majority of cases was simply embedded since earliest years, around what people build large part of social life, continually reinforcing themselves in absolutist value of it. Yes, I'd say that this stunt is not very productive. But the way of arguing doesn't work; only exploiting...as happened numerous time when one faith replaces another...again, again, again, and again.
I suspect they are just venting off a bit for their own amusement at the expense of Bible worshipping folks; I don't know how they have it daily, but you know...sometimes having a little laugh is all that remains.
Duh, religions revolve around stunts. For example "look, I'll be sooo alive after I'm dead, promise" or "there's totally a hand of %INSERT CHOSEN DEITY% here"
That's just a - clumsy, I give you that - effort to work on the level of religions; perhaps exploit unsecurity of few people in the way religions do.
You only have Apple word for waving that "RAND" like it's some magical thing allowing companies to take what they want without bringing much to the table. Fact is, patents which Apple offers in exchange are trivial in comparison to those held by cellphone industry players - which took many years and billions of dollars to develop.
In light of that, it is Apple who want discriminatory treatment to everyone else. But Apple is special, they can have better set of rules...
As for Nokia, they are, as other posters have noted, trying to hit up Apple with more stringent terms than other companies. Apple wants to be treated fairly.
That's a rather complex example (nvm that the story is not about individual examples...); it's quite possible that one of the inspirations for Lemaître was the need to reconcile the state of science at his time with the story of clear beginning from his religious texts.
Now - would you be so good and give us examples contrary to your punch line? There's plenty of them. Also happening right now.
Certainly there will be far more connection with social standing and life experiences...but at the same time those things might "average" out. Not in ~mathematical sense though; I imagine life stories are too diverse to be usefull, and with too many possible outcomes from similar storylines; a helluva of interweaving.
The results would probably greatly depend on subtle sorting criteria. With great opportunity for biases of all kind. So also easily dismissed if somebody doesn't like the criteria and results.
IQ is, comparativelly, a very straightforward and clear factor.
Just for an example: from last two sentences of your post it seems we might be quite similar on the things you wrote about (even if with some differences: recognizing the role of religion...yup, though also because I, in a way, enjoy deconstructing it - to exploit its mechanisms too, quite anti if you ask me...; likewise I fall into "extremes" on many issues if only because I don't approach anything via any partyline...but people probably think I'm "RINO lefty" (whatever that means;p ) more often, simply because at my place the right more often crosses my path)
But, from few bits you shared, our life stories are probably quite dissimilar.
What are you talking about? The first EDGE phone in the world, Nokia 6200 (launched 2002), had also AT&T as its launch carrier. The first 3G phone in the world, Nokia 6650, launched at the beginning of 2003...with version for US market/frequencies, 6651, soon after.
Though IMHO saying "almost no-one is writing Symbian applications" is a bit of a stretch. Ovi store has quite a bit of them; Symbian also nicely runs tons of j2me apps. Plus...I think you overestimate the importance of vast, vast number of apps. How many Windows apps are actually widely used? How come Debian isn't the most succesfull OS with its repositories? How many apps on Apple AppStore (or generally) are junk? There's some point of balance there, with the pure number of apps not being the only indication.
(accidentally, some nice Symbian apps are not and will not be available on, say, iPhone)
There might be indeed some...well, I wouldn't call it miscategorization; more of a misunderstanding, or outright dismissal of what Symbian even is - I'm pretty certain many of its users don't know what it trully can do. That might be a side effect of Symbian (at least in Nokia flavour, S60) having similar UI concepts to S40; for familiarity and because S60 started a long time ago, when such UI was the only practical one. Or that Symbian handsets are often very affordable, so they are treated as just another solid handset. But is that a bad thing? How many people choose Windows and, to some degree, OSX on basis of full understanding of its merits?
I do agree that Symbian will probably lose its marketshare in the long term - it's hard to remain at 50% (while playing nice) when there's so much new competition entering the market (and that's a good thing). Actually, I believe in the past year it slipped from 51 to 48%...while continuing healthy grow in number of devices sold. Here's the crux of the matter: with smartphones as a group still being only a small portion (20%?) of total phones sold, there's plenty of opportunity for everywhone. And Symbian has properties which will help it in the biggest market segment, where price is of paramount importance - it can nicely run on significantly cheaper phones than most (all?) of its competition. Phones which will benefit in many places from brand loyalty towards their manufacturer.
With the ongoing shift towards Qt, it will probably become a very pleasurable enviroment for writing apps, too...
PS. BTW, what you would call "miscategorization" seems rampant in mobile phone industry. For example, why Sony Ericsson "feature phones" (the ones on their own platform) are not smartphones? They have multimedia features, proper connectivity, even full multitasking of installed apps...something certain smartphones can't do. Before you say their apps aren't really native (j2me) - well, some of the build-in apps are also j2me; besides such thing didn't stop WebOS or Android from being called smartphone OSes before they got native code execution. And where are the cheap Android phones? (without contract...)
Hey, ultimatelly the governments/etc. are just a reflection of society, usually (yes, also in "undemocratic" or "corrupt" regimes - who do you think builds their ranks? Do you think average people from the street wouldn't change their mind about benefits of higher castes if put into them?)
Of course, it's a two way relationship; with structures of power influencing society at large. But it goes both ways.
But that's a distinction not that dissimilar to the ones between OSes in PC world - you have small minority choosing Apple, small minority choosing Linux (and similar alternatives) but "unwashed masses" get a PC that happens to have Windows running it; manufacturer of which is quite successfull if you ask me...
Oh, and in case of Nokia they actually play very nice; I don't really see in which area they haven't earned their success (nvm great service they are doing for humanity)
Do you seriously think that Nokia will abandon the three most succesfull mobile phone platforms in the world, in their respective segments? (S30, S40, Symbian) Platforms that people continually choose to get instead of the alternatives...otherwise Nokia wouldn't dominate that much. Their path, platforms aren't an "alternative". They are or almost are (depending on the segment) majority of the market. And now Symbian gets a nice overhaul, built around Qt and all that...
PS. PS. Also, you left out Samsung bada OS. Yes, it's unreleased as of yet - but launching in two months, and with the stated goal of shipping on "significant portion" of Samsung mobile phones; I guess they want to ship it on everything except from the most basic devices.
It will be big (I suspect quite quickly second only to Symbian) for one simple reason: Samsung is second only to Nokia in marketshare, and significantly ahead of the rest.
I wasn't really pointing fingers at anybody for the "problem". Just saying that it might be beneficial, especially in harsh weather conditions, to have the grid (and millions devices on it, not only pumps) operating as properly as possible (I'm not sure, but from I remember it was something a bit below 200 Volts - is that still "slightly reduced voltage"?)
Hm, now that I think about it - the impact of it (if any!) could be quite easily visualised; assuming you have some database of device failures and blackouts over time.
Anyways - supposedly CERN now has, essentially, a powerplant at its disposal.
1 - uhmm, but you can buy them just fine - they just weren't promoted at all by carriers, that's all. Not only some US carriers have them; with Nokia you can easily truly own your phone and pick a contract/prepaid that's really a good deal (ok, that last thing might a problem in the US too...)
2 - that is completelly untrue. Symbian does NOT constitute most of Nokia sales. S30 and S40 (the most popular mobile phone platform on the planet) are NOT Symbian; the latter is only a small portion of Nokia sales. Perhaps you not realising that is one of the reasons why you think Nokia is not as big as it really is.
First - yeah, US market is important but...don't overestimate its importance in relation to the rest of the world. It's quite atypical market. Look how well Nokia is doing in the rest of the world anyway, with them being the only major cellphone manufacturer that's very profitable (others are either out of the market, struggling financially, or mobile phones are far from vast majority of their business; RIM might be an exception - though do they sell phones or corporate/carrier service?)
Secondly, it's not much of a mystery why Nokia isn't really present in the US - several years ago (when mobiles really started becoming more than voice + sms) it refused excessive castration of its phones, which was demanded by US cellphone carriers...and there you go.
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See, you're doing it. Twisting points, "this is just stupid", "that's false", "few examples I saw/didn't saw settle the matter", "Bible itself is correct, some/most just lack understanding"
Anything goes...
PS. It's always cute how, when religions are responsible for something "bad", religious folks go with "ahh, but that's just human nature" story...but of course when everything is "good", they are the ones to thank. Cute :)
They question the doctrine except for questioning the notion that Protestantism / Christanity is ultimatelly correct and any incosistencies are simply a limit of our understanding. Everything else just follows from that. Every BS can follow from that.
And you really argue that what vast majority of Christians stand for is NOT what Christanity ultimatelly represents? Really?
religious people are dogmatic by design
That makes no sense. You literally can't back that up so it's meaningful.
You really don't know that religions are built around certain dogmas?...
That quote from House implies something obvious which you're trying not to see, "...reasoned with in the matters of religion". Religions obviously require suspension of disbelief, accepting things which are supposedly above reason (which too often leeches over to other areas, unfortunatelly)...you want to tell me you don't know that?
See, rational arguments simply don't work; not against something which in vast, vast majority of cases was simply embedded since earliest years, around what people build large part of social life, continually reinforcing themselves in absolutist value of it.
Yes, I'd say that this stunt is not very productive. But the way of arguing doesn't work; only exploiting...as happened numerous time when one faith replaces another...again, again, again, and again.
I suspect they are just venting off a bit for their own amusement at the expense of Bible worshipping folks; I don't know how they have it daily, but you know...sometimes having a little laugh is all that remains.
Still, not very productive or sensible...
Duh, religions revolve around stunts. For example "look, I'll be sooo alive after I'm dead, promise" or "there's totally a hand of %INSERT CHOSEN DEITY% here"
That's just a - clumsy, I give you that - effort to work on the level of religions; perhaps exploit unsecurity of few people in the way religions do.
You only have Apple word for waving that "RAND" like it's some magical thing allowing companies to take what they want without bringing much to the table. Fact is, patents which Apple offers in exchange are trivial in comparison to those held by cellphone industry players - which took many years and billions of dollars to develop.
In light of that, it is Apple who want discriminatory treatment to everyone else. But Apple is special, they can have better set of rules...
As for Nokia, they are, as other posters have noted, trying to hit up Apple with more stringent terms than other companies. Apple wants to be treated fairly.
And who told you that? Apple.
Newton wasn't the only such device back then. One from IBM seems to apply more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Simon
That's a rather complex example (nvm that the story is not about individual examples...); it's quite possible that one of the inspirations for Lemaître was the need to reconcile the state of science at his time with the story of clear beginning from his religious texts.
Now - would you be so good and give us examples contrary to your punch line? There's plenty of them. Also happening right now.
Certainly you don't think that this study was about few handpicked individuals and not about large scale dynamics of human populations, do you?
Certainly there will be far more connection with social standing and life experiences...but at the same time those things might "average" out. Not in ~mathematical sense though; I imagine life stories are too diverse to be usefull, and with too many possible outcomes from similar storylines; a helluva of interweaving.
The results would probably greatly depend on subtle sorting criteria. With great opportunity for biases of all kind. So also easily dismissed if somebody doesn't like the criteria and results.
IQ is, comparativelly, a very straightforward and clear factor.
Just for an example: from last two sentences of your post it seems we might be quite similar on the things you wrote about (even if with some differences: recognizing the role of religion...yup, though also because I, in a way, enjoy deconstructing it - to exploit its mechanisms too, quite anti if you ask me...; likewise I fall into "extremes" on many issues if only because I don't approach anything via any partyline...but people probably think I'm "RINO lefty" (whatever that means ;p ) more often, simply because at my place the right more often crosses my path)
But, from few bits you shared, our life stories are probably quite dissimilar.
...and they will sometimes manage to appear just as smart as the...smart kids. Not a great thing if you're among the latter.
There's a horrible pun somewhere about this artist name being Gaylord and your grandfather having his genitals blown off...
What are you talking about? The first EDGE phone in the world, Nokia 6200 (launched 2002), had also AT&T as its launch carrier. The first 3G phone in the world, Nokia 6650, launched at the beginning of 2003...with version for US market/frequencies, 6651, soon after.
Though IMHO saying "almost no-one is writing Symbian applications" is a bit of a stretch. Ovi store has quite a bit of them; Symbian also nicely runs tons of j2me apps. Plus...I think you overestimate the importance of vast, vast number of apps. How many Windows apps are actually widely used? How come Debian isn't the most succesfull OS with its repositories? How many apps on Apple AppStore (or generally) are junk? There's some point of balance there, with the pure number of apps not being the only indication.
(accidentally, some nice Symbian apps are not and will not be available on, say, iPhone)
There might be indeed some...well, I wouldn't call it miscategorization; more of a misunderstanding, or outright dismissal of what Symbian even is - I'm pretty certain many of its users don't know what it trully can do. That might be a side effect of Symbian (at least in Nokia flavour, S60) having similar UI concepts to S40; for familiarity and because S60 started a long time ago, when such UI was the only practical one. Or that Symbian handsets are often very affordable, so they are treated as just another solid handset. But is that a bad thing? How many people choose Windows and, to some degree, OSX on basis of full understanding of its merits?
I do agree that Symbian will probably lose its marketshare in the long term - it's hard to remain at 50% (while playing nice) when there's so much new competition entering the market (and that's a good thing). Actually, I believe in the past year it slipped from 51 to 48%...while continuing healthy grow in number of devices sold. Here's the crux of the matter: with smartphones as a group still being only a small portion (20%?) of total phones sold, there's plenty of opportunity for everywhone. And Symbian has properties which will help it in the biggest market segment, where price is of paramount importance - it can nicely run on significantly cheaper phones than most (all?) of its competition. Phones which will benefit in many places from brand loyalty towards their manufacturer.
With the ongoing shift towards Qt, it will probably become a very pleasurable enviroment for writing apps, too...
PS. BTW, what you would call "miscategorization" seems rampant in mobile phone industry. For example, why Sony Ericsson "feature phones" (the ones on their own platform) are not smartphones? They have multimedia features, proper connectivity, even full multitasking of installed apps...something certain smartphones can't do. Before you say their apps aren't really native (j2me) - well, some of the build-in apps are also j2me; besides such thing didn't stop WebOS or Android from being called smartphone OSes before they got native code execution. And where are the cheap Android phones? (without contract...)
Hey, ultimatelly the governments/etc. are just a reflection of society, usually (yes, also in "undemocratic" or "corrupt" regimes - who do you think builds their ranks? Do you think average people from the street wouldn't change their mind about benefits of higher castes if put into them?)
Of course, it's a two way relationship; with structures of power influencing society at large. But it goes both ways.
But that's a distinction not that dissimilar to the ones between OSes in PC world - you have small minority choosing Apple, small minority choosing Linux (and similar alternatives) but "unwashed masses" get a PC that happens to have Windows running it; manufacturer of which is quite successfull if you ask me...
Oh, and in case of Nokia they actually play very nice; I don't really see in which area they haven't earned their success (nvm great service they are doing for humanity)
Do you seriously think that Nokia will abandon the three most succesfull mobile phone platforms in the world, in their respective segments? (S30, S40, Symbian) Platforms that people continually choose to get instead of the alternatives...otherwise Nokia wouldn't dominate that much. Their path, platforms aren't an "alternative". They are or almost are (depending on the segment) majority of the market. And now Symbian gets a nice overhaul, built around Qt and all that...
PS. And N900 is not Symbian!
PS. PS. Also, you left out Samsung bada OS. Yes, it's unreleased as of yet - but launching in two months, and with the stated goal of shipping on "significant portion" of Samsung mobile phones; I guess they want to ship it on everything except from the most basic devices.
It will be big (I suspect quite quickly second only to Symbian) for one simple reason: Samsung is second only to Nokia in marketshare, and significantly ahead of the rest.
I don't think you have much reason to, uhm...pity yourself ;)
Symbian^3 devices (in affordable price range) are generally a thing for end of 2010, at the earliest.
Actually - from what I've heard Nokia E71, at least, is offered by...AT&T.
Certainly great when you have to "study"...
I wasn't really pointing fingers at anybody for the "problem". Just saying that it might be beneficial, especially in harsh weather conditions, to have the grid (and millions devices on it, not only pumps) operating as properly as possible (I'm not sure, but from I remember it was something a bit below 200 Volts - is that still "slightly reduced voltage"?)
Hm, now that I think about it - the impact of it (if any!) could be quite easily visualised; assuming you have some database of device failures and blackouts over time.
Anyways - supposedly CERN now has, essentially, a powerplant at its disposal.
1 - uhmm, but you can buy them just fine - they just weren't promoted at all by carriers, that's all. Not only some US carriers have them; with Nokia you can easily truly own your phone and pick a contract/prepaid that's really a good deal (ok, that last thing might a problem in the US too...)
2 - that is completelly untrue. Symbian does NOT constitute most of Nokia sales. S30 and S40 (the most popular mobile phone platform on the planet) are NOT Symbian; the latter is only a small portion of Nokia sales.
Perhaps you not realising that is one of the reasons why you think Nokia is not as big as it really is.
First - yeah, US market is important but...don't overestimate its importance in relation to the rest of the world. It's quite atypical market. Look how well Nokia is doing in the rest of the world anyway, with them being the only major cellphone manufacturer that's very profitable (others are either out of the market, struggling financially, or mobile phones are far from vast majority of their business; RIM might be an exception - though do they sell phones or corporate/carrier service?)
Secondly, it's not much of a mystery why Nokia isn't really present in the US - several years ago (when mobiles really started becoming more than voice + sms) it refused excessive castration of its phones, which was demanded by US cellphone carriers...and there you go.
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