Naver's greatest advantage lies in its 'KIN' service, which is pretty similar to what www.answers.com provides. But most people don't go to their site for web searching however. Rather they go there for fun reading all the news articles (and all those trolling comments... yeah they're actually fun sometimes), blogs, cartoons, video clips and whatever.
It's not really comparable to Google. They're apples and oranges IMHO.
I didn't think he's argument is totally pointless though. But even if you could ignore various supposed syntax errors in his code, that particular case could be easily solved by using Collections.unmodifiableCollection or use Iterator as the return type. And I don't think cloning collections impose critical performance overhead in most cases - you don't generally want to retain very large number of objects in a collection anyway.
I know there're other cases which might prove the validity of his original concern, but I guess most of the cases could be easily workarounded by careful design and most importantly, I doubt we should modify the language itself to address this specific issue.
Well... if you can't tell java.lang.String from java.util.Collection, I think you'd better learn how to program in Java before trying to preach about 'security risk' to other people who might be a seasoned Java programmer.
What JVM do you use? I'm using Linux GTK2 version of Eclipse for all my development tasks on mere P800/377RAM machine.
GTK2 version is reasonably fast and looks very nice with other native GNOME applications, but it'll be quite unusuable with less than 256M RAM. And always use the latest (> 1.4.x) JVM, it makes much difference.
If you really need a fast Eclipse, try Motif or Fox version instead. It's lot faster (and uglier) than GTK version.
oops... sry, tags are missing in parent post
on
Tomcat 5.0 Released
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· Score: 1
it's
<html:text property="firstName"/>
Should have previewed my post. Sorry:)
I think you have some system problem or maybe you should read the help contents once again:)
I have used both JEdit and Eclipse. Actually, you can put any library jar with a few mouse click (project properties -> build path -> library) and auto completion and compilation will work correctly without a problem.
With JEdit however, as far as I can remember you should install a custom plugin, and reboot, then you should input classpath for all the required library jars by hand to enable auto completion and compilation to work.
You have a point about integration, but VB is a single IDE product from OS company which runs on that single OS and can be used for developing application targeted at that OS only.
Eclipse is not just a Java IDE but a universal tool platform which has hundreds of 3rd party plugins. And it supports various other languages like C/C++, PHP, Ruby, Cobol ant it runs on several different platforms. No wonder why VB feels more integrated than Eclipse.
However I don't think Eclipse is too scattered or hard to use for that matter, but it might be just personal preference.
I know SWT is not yet ready for prime yet. And surely any Java IDE can't compete with VS in making desktop applications running on Win32.
But, I believe the whole point of the original post is whether Eclipse as an IDE is superior to VB or not. It's not the question of if SWT-Java is more suitable to ActiveX-VB in developing win32 desktop applications.
All of the features you've mentioned are of ActiveX, not VB and not VS.
And while I admit language independence is a nice thing, I don't think it's more important than platform independence in most of the cases. You can easily find some successful cross platform softwares, but you won't find too many successful projects which are built by 2 VB programmers, 1 Cobol programmers, 3 C programmers, and etc. - It won't affect customers at all, while being complete disaster in management aspect .
And as far as cross platform capability is concerned, VB.NET won't help you much.
Anyway, even in end user desktop applications, I believe Java/SWT/Eclipse/GCJ combination have tremendous potential than you might expect. Current VEP is for Swing only as you've mentioned, but SWT version will arrive at the 1st quarter of next year.
And with these combination, you can easily build cross platform native applications. Third party SWT/JFace components maeket is non-existent yet, but you should consider there're much more high quality opensource third party non-GUI Java libraries than MS counter part.
And to return to the original point, I think Eclipse is far superior to VB as long as features as IDE are concerned.
It'll give Swing applications quite close native L&F on Win32 and OSX platform, but it will look horribly on Linux.
I know GTK L&F is coming, but it will be very hard to support all the theme engines and without Xft integration, Swing applicatins will look completly out of place and outdated compared to other GTK+ applications.
Especially if you want to support multi-bytes languages such as Korean, Japanese, or Chinese, Swing applications on Linux is definetly not a viable choice since if you don't bundle preconfigured JRE with all the appropriate fonts for each of the language, your client won't even able to read texts and even English texts will look definately ugily.
I think Swing is moving toward the right direction, but at least for the end-user desktop applications, I think SWT with native compilation is the far better choice than Swing.
What are the most useful features do you think VB provides which Eclipse lacks?
Especially with new Visual Editor Project(VEP), I don't think Eclipse actually falls behind VB even it's VB.NET.
On the other hand, I think strong refactoring support and variety of third party plugins (which counts over 400 already) are what made Eclipse popular today. And both of these are non-existent in any of the VS.NET products.
Eclipse uses native graphic toolkit for each platform just as wxWindows does. So even if eclipse comes to support QT, it will continue to use native MFC toolkit on Windows platform.
Personally, I'm using Gnome, but it would be a terrific contribution for KDE people once SWT/Eclipse supports Qt. I've heard that preliminary code for Qt binding is being developed somewhere inside IBM. So hope it will be available as soon as possible after they successfully resolve license issues.
What does make you think Java is less 'open' without EJB? I think Java is far more open because of JCP and third party implementations, and great number of OSS projects developed with it.
Do you think Mono is an open source project? Maybe their license is open source, but they don't have any choice about.NET framework itself except for blindly copying what MS does which does not seem open at all to me.
And BTW, if you really think Java is more 'open' with EJB support, you have number of open source implementation of J2EE containers out there, and some of them are production quality.
I don't think developing enterprise applications or even integrating them madate use of EJB. In most of the cases, a well designed servlet-based application which is load balanced using session affinitity scales well enough. That's why many of the developers turn their eyes to such alternatives as Spring, Hibernate, JDO and etc.
And if you only use session beans - which has become very prevalent design choice nowadays - it does not offer much than load-balanced servlet applications anyway.
First of all, I do think open source community should continue embracing C# as they've done in Gtk#. And I think.NET have great potential to compete with Java at server side market, and will certainly dominate Win32 desktop client market for years to come.
However, what I strongly object is that OSS community trying to adop.NET framework and wasting their time and talent in such project as Mono.
As you can see from the roadmap Novell published, any attempt to reimplement.NET platform will be endless game of blindly copying everything MS put into their products under the '.NET' brand name.
Do you really believe Mono or Novell could make their.NET implementation way better than MS so, they will lead innovation of.NET technologies while MS lagging behind them struggling to make their official.NET runtime compatible with technologically superior Mono alternative?
No, I think the other way round wil be the case. Hell... if bunch of OSS hackers backed by one company has that much power, everyone would be all using Linux, OpenOffice, FireBird, or whatever by now instead of Windows, MS Office, IE craps.
Maybe MS will succeed taking some market share from Java, and big companies will move to their new Windows server products, so tools market, developer base will all move around their 'official'.NET platform, while Mono developers will provide their copy of MS.NET to some poor companies which can't afford to buy MS.NET and technical support.
While they - Mono developers are up to this task, they won't make any significant innovation to.NET framework for no commercial companies will be insane enough to build their business applications using some Mono specific features(What important innovations have we over Win98/WinXP with Wine/WineX?).
On the other hand, MS will put every non-standard features into their product which will lure more customers so make it practically impossible to copy their product like what they did with IE before.
And most importantly, when applications like IE, MS Office, Photoshop begin to run on Mono/Linux, it will be the end of such projects like FireBird, OpenOffice, Gimp, and so on.
Maybe OSS developers find it more easy to program in.NET than using plain C/C++ or whatever they're using today. Even some of them will start using VS.NET to program Gnome/KDE applications, and they'll more easily find jobs in MS shops with their skill in.NET technology.
These thoughts make me shiver, and when this worst nightmare of mine come true... it will be the last day I'll still be using my Linux/Gnome desktop.
Slashdot Mirror
Naver's greatest advantage lies in its 'KIN' service, which is pretty similar to what www.answers.com provides. But most people don't go to their site for web searching however. Rather they go there for fun reading all the news articles (and all those trolling comments... yeah they're actually fun sometimes), blogs, cartoons, video clips and whatever.
It's not really comparable to Google. They're apples and oranges IMHO.
I didn't think he's argument is totally pointless though. But even if you could ignore various supposed syntax errors in his code, that particular case could be easily solved by using Collections.unmodifiableCollection or use Iterator as the return type. And I don't think cloning collections impose critical performance overhead in most cases - you don't generally want to retain very large number of objects in a collection anyway. I know there're other cases which might prove the validity of his original concern, but I guess most of the cases could be easily workarounded by careful design and most importantly, I doubt we should modify the language itself to address this specific issue.
Well... if you can't tell java.lang.String from java.util.Collection, I think you'd better learn how to program in Java before trying to preach about 'security risk' to other people who might be a seasoned Java programmer.
It's an open source project which deals with the exact problem you've mentioned above.
Most distros provide many popular fonts pre-packaged so you can install them very easily with package manager app.
:)
_ 12.png
If you prefer 'the Windows way', you can just direct your file manager to 'fonts://' directory and drop true type font file you want to use.
Here's my GNOME 2.12 screenshot btw
http://www.gnome.or.kr/albums/screenshots/gnome_2
What JVM do you use? I'm using Linux GTK2 version of Eclipse for all my development tasks on mere P800/377RAM machine. GTK2 version is reasonably fast and looks very nice with other native GNOME applications, but it'll be quite unusuable with less than 256M RAM. And always use the latest (> 1.4.x) JVM, it makes much difference. If you really need a fast Eclipse, try Motif or Fox version instead. It's lot faster (and uglier) than GTK version.
it's :)
<html:text property="firstName"/>
Should have previewed my post. Sorry
You can always use jakarta-struts to keep your jsp pages simple. It would be instead with Struts.
I think you have some system problem or maybe you should read the help contents once again :)
I have used both JEdit and Eclipse. Actually, you can put any library jar with a few mouse click (project properties -> build path -> library) and auto completion and compilation will work correctly without a problem.
With JEdit however, as far as I can remember you should install a custom plugin, and reboot, then you should input classpath for all the required library jars by hand to enable auto completion and compilation to work.
You have a point about integration, but VB is a single IDE product from OS company which runs on that single OS and can be used for developing application targeted at that OS only.
Eclipse is not just a Java IDE but a universal tool platform which has hundreds of 3rd party plugins. And it supports various other languages like C/C++, PHP, Ruby, Cobol ant it runs on several different platforms. No wonder why VB feels more integrated than Eclipse.
However I don't think Eclipse is too scattered or hard to use for that matter, but it might be just personal preference.
I know SWT is not yet ready for prime yet. And surely any Java IDE can't compete with VS in making desktop applications running on Win32. But, I believe the whole point of the original post is whether Eclipse as an IDE is superior to VB or not. It's not the question of if SWT-Java is more suitable to ActiveX-VB in developing win32 desktop applications. All of the features you've mentioned are of ActiveX, not VB and not VS. And while I admit language independence is a nice thing, I don't think it's more important than platform independence in most of the cases. You can easily find some successful cross platform softwares, but you won't find too many successful projects which are built by 2 VB programmers, 1 Cobol programmers, 3 C programmers, and etc. - It won't affect customers at all, while being complete disaster in management aspect . And as far as cross platform capability is concerned, VB.NET won't help you much. Anyway, even in end user desktop applications, I believe Java/SWT/Eclipse/GCJ combination have tremendous potential than you might expect. Current VEP is for Swing only as you've mentioned, but SWT version will arrive at the 1st quarter of next year. And with these combination, you can easily build cross platform native applications. Third party SWT/JFace components maeket is non-existent yet, but you should consider there're much more high quality opensource third party non-GUI Java libraries than MS counter part. And to return to the original point, I think Eclipse is far superior to VB as long as features as IDE are concerned.
It'll give Swing applications quite close native L&F on Win32 and OSX platform, but it will look horribly on Linux. I know GTK L&F is coming, but it will be very hard to support all the theme engines and without Xft integration, Swing applicatins will look completly out of place and outdated compared to other GTK+ applications. Especially if you want to support multi-bytes languages such as Korean, Japanese, or Chinese, Swing applications on Linux is definetly not a viable choice since if you don't bundle preconfigured JRE with all the appropriate fonts for each of the language, your client won't even able to read texts and even English texts will look definately ugily. I think Swing is moving toward the right direction, but at least for the end-user desktop applications, I think SWT with native compilation is the far better choice than Swing.
What are the most useful features do you think VB provides which Eclipse lacks? Especially with new Visual Editor Project(VEP), I don't think Eclipse actually falls behind VB even it's VB.NET. On the other hand, I think strong refactoring support and variety of third party plugins (which counts over 400 already) are what made Eclipse popular today. And both of these are non-existent in any of the VS.NET products.
Eclipse uses native graphic toolkit for each platform just as wxWindows does. So even if eclipse comes to support QT, it will continue to use native MFC toolkit on Windows platform. Personally, I'm using Gnome, but it would be a terrific contribution for KDE people once SWT/Eclipse supports Qt. I've heard that preliminary code for Qt binding is being developed somewhere inside IBM. So hope it will be available as soon as possible after they successfully resolve license issues.
It's made with Macromedia Showckwave. I had no problem seeing it with my galeon browser on Linux Gnome desktop.
What does make you think Java is less 'open' without EJB? I think Java is far more open because of JCP and third party implementations, and great number of OSS projects developed with it. Do you think Mono is an open source project? Maybe their license is open source, but they don't have any choice about .NET framework itself except for blindly copying what MS does which does not seem open at all to me.
And BTW, if you really think Java is more 'open' with EJB support, you have number of open source implementation of J2EE containers out there, and some of them are production quality.
I don't think developing enterprise applications or even integrating them madate use of EJB. In most of the cases, a well designed servlet-based application which is load balanced using session affinitity scales well enough. That's why many of the developers turn their eyes to such alternatives as Spring, Hibernate, JDO and etc. And if you only use session beans - which has become very prevalent design choice nowadays - it does not offer much than load-balanced servlet applications anyway.
First of all, I do think open source community should continue embracing C# as they've done in Gtk#. And I think .NET have great potential to compete with Java at server side market, and will certainly dominate Win32 desktop client market for years to come.
.NET framework and wasting their time and talent in such project as Mono.
.NET platform will be endless game of blindly copying everything MS put into their products under the '.NET' brand name.
.NET implementation way better than MS so, they will lead innovation of .NET technologies while MS lagging behind them struggling to make their official .NET runtime compatible with technologically superior Mono alternative?
.NET platform, while Mono developers will provide their copy of MS .NET to some poor companies which can't afford to buy MS .NET and technical support.
.NET framework for no commercial companies will be insane enough to build their business applications using some Mono specific features(What important innovations have we over Win98/WinXP with Wine/WineX?).
.NET than using plain C/C++ or whatever they're using today. Even some of them will start using VS.NET to program Gnome/KDE applications, and they'll more easily find jobs in MS shops with their skill in .NET technology.
However, what I strongly object is that OSS community trying to adop
As you can see from the roadmap Novell published, any attempt to reimplement
Do you really believe Mono or Novell could make their
No, I think the other way round wil be the case. Hell... if bunch of OSS hackers backed by one company has that much power, everyone would be all using Linux, OpenOffice, FireBird, or whatever by now instead of Windows, MS Office, IE craps.
Maybe MS will succeed taking some market share from Java, and big companies will move to their new Windows server products, so tools market, developer base will all move around their 'official'
While they - Mono developers are up to this task, they won't make any significant innovation to
On the other hand, MS will put every non-standard features into their product which will lure more customers so make it practically impossible to copy their product like what they did with IE before.
And most importantly, when applications like IE, MS Office, Photoshop begin to run on Mono/Linux, it will be the end of such projects like FireBird, OpenOffice, Gimp, and so on.
Maybe OSS developers find it more easy to program in
These thoughts make me shiver, and when this worst nightmare of mine come true... it will be the last day I'll still be using my Linux/Gnome desktop.