Nah, how about scholars and professional researchers?
I ain't got the time to look them up, but do a search for Gordon Melton, and do a Google search for "Bonafides of Scientology" as well.
Also, check out this site:
Bernie's site
This guy does not love Scientology, in fact he's a critic. But he's fair and accurate, which is not what most of your sources are.
'later.
RE: Attacks on Scientologists Actually, several of these people have rap sheets against them for exactly that behavior. Comments such as encouraging people to place a bomb in a Scientology Church are not uncommon in their newsgroups. A perfect example of this is Keith Henson Religious Freedom Watch I could write a laundry list of Scientologists who have been physically harmed as a direct result of the hate inspired by these sites. If you know any history, you surely remember the paranoid articles in 1033 Germany inciting hatred toward Jews. The parallels are there. (and no, I'm not comparing this to the Holocaust, but to early discrimination of Jews in 1933-1937 Germany. The point is we don't want it to come to worse.) RE: Tone Scale First of all, "those low in the tone scale" has nothing to do with whether or not they'll join Scientology. You sound fairly high on the Tone Scale, and yet I doubt you'll ever join, right? Mother Teresa was a high-toned individual, and so is Bono, but I doubt they've even heard of Scientology. The Tone Scale is simply a classification of individuals based on motivation, ethical level, affinity level, etc. Hitler was a low-toned individual. Secondly, the writings you refer to are in the book "Science of Survival", published in 1952. Thirty years of research followed these writings. And if you knew Hubbard's style, you'd know that his books are full of irony, sarcasm, and extreme examples to make a point. His POLICIES, on the other hand, are much more conservative, and THAT is what the Church is based on. That bullshit about concentration camps is based on one comment made in one book in 1952 - and by the way, the non-Scientologist world does exactly that, rounds up people and places them in "prisons". The actual Hubbard quote says that youre only two choices are to round them up or to process them to improve their tone level. Incidentally, we ARE doing just that with criminals, in a program called Criminon Criminon Third, what you write about "if you never join Scientology you're worthless to humanity" is complete rubbish. No sane Scientologist believes that, Hubbard definitely did not. He encouraged Scientologists to work with all men and women of good will to make this a better place.
RE: Cooper: You're talking about ancient history, and you're only looking at the anti side. Not fair research.
RE: Black PR You got it all wrong. Hubbard describes this practice to make our officers aware that this practice was being used AGAINST us. He actively prohibited Scientology officials from using such a practice. He encourages a practice of "dead-agenting" such Black PR material, which means to prove it false and thus discredit the lying source. I am a typical Scientologist, and I do not know of any that lie about who they are. Dude, you're getting all your info from haters. That's not balanced research. Check out
Well, you sorta have a point there - lack of copyrights in that case allowed free dissemination... but resulted in complete alteration. So it's a matter of which is the more important objective, widespread distribution or standard, unaltered application. In the case of Mr. Hubbard, he considered #2 more important.
BTW, "slavering rondroid"? Cute.:-)~
Hi Anonymous Coward:-)
You speaketh of what you knoweth not (in other words, you're speaking through your ass, dude.)
The disconnection policy only applies in dire, extreme situations. This exists outside of Scientology too - it's called a restraining order. Like in the case of an abusive husband.
It's such bs that people like you grab onto such extreme situations and run with it, instead of looking honestly at the day-to-day life of Scientologists. But then again, not much controversy there, we just pay our taxes, go to work, send our kids to school, study when we get a chance, watch Oprah and eat Pringles like any other human.
Instead of spreading the malice, learn a little tolerance and dare to think for yourself. Scientology may not be for you, but it isn't the Boogyman either.
some stuff about Scientology
1) There is no such thing as "commercial copyrights" - just copyrights. You're just trying to slant things.
2) If Chistianity had copyrighted Jesus' words, today we might have a clue as to what the guy actually did say, instead of all these altered versions. Oh well.
I got no masters (only a Bachelor's - LOL)
and nobody's trying to harm you.
Can we have an intelligent conversation, or is this the nonsense you're gonna spew out?
Dude, that site lists all kinds of people who died of old age, and people who never even existed. Data as inaccurate as it is slanderous. And since we're on murders, how about the innocent Scientologists who were recently murdered in Portland by a hate-bigot fueled by hate-sites he read? Sticks and stones, dude. Sure.
Actually, I've been a Scientologist for two decades and all I've gotten out of it is great family values, a kid in an Honors program, a great career, and a happy marriage.
Scientology is not what you read on the Net, especially from biased hate-sites. Get a clue.
God, are we really gonna go completely OFF-TOPIC into this?
The site you present is a completely biased view by people who hate my religion. Not a very credible source. It's like asking Rush Limbaugh about Democrats or asking David Duke about Blacks. It's all twisted hatespeak.
Check out my site LiveAndGrowfor a more accurate portrayal, or stick with the haters - up to you.
Note: I happen to BE a Scientologist, been one for 20 years. I do know a thing or two about the subject; I'm not just some curious web-surfer who found a hate link and thinks he's got the "inside scoop."
Scientology does nothing of the sort. Otherwise all those crazy wackos with hate stories about Scientology would NOT BE on the Net, would they. Duh.
All that Scientology does is fight to keep its own intellectual copyrighted property off of its enemies hands - which is pretty sensible in light of the vicious attacks it has received.
See http://www.theta.com/goodman/letter.htm
Slashdot Mirror
Nah, how about scholars and professional researchers? I ain't got the time to look them up, but do a search for Gordon Melton, and do a Google search for "Bonafides of Scientology" as well. Also, check out this site: Bernie's site This guy does not love Scientology, in fact he's a critic. But he's fair and accurate, which is not what most of your sources are. 'later.
RE: Attacks on Scientologists
Actually, several of these people have rap sheets against them for exactly that behavior. Comments such as encouraging people to place a bomb in a Scientology Church are not uncommon in their newsgroups. A perfect example of this is Keith Henson
Religious Freedom Watch
I could write a laundry list of Scientologists who have been physically harmed as a direct result of the hate inspired by these sites. If you know any history, you surely remember the paranoid articles in 1033 Germany inciting hatred toward Jews. The parallels are there. (and no, I'm not comparing this to the Holocaust, but to early discrimination of Jews in 1933-1937 Germany. The point is we don't want it to come to worse.)
RE: Tone Scale
First of all, "those low in the tone scale" has nothing to do with whether or not they'll join Scientology. You sound fairly high on the Tone Scale, and yet I doubt you'll ever join, right? Mother Teresa was a high-toned individual, and so is Bono, but I doubt they've even heard of Scientology. The Tone Scale is simply a classification of individuals based on motivation, ethical level, affinity level, etc. Hitler was a low-toned individual.
Secondly, the writings you refer to are in the book "Science of Survival", published in 1952. Thirty years of research followed these writings. And if you knew Hubbard's style, you'd know that his books are full of irony, sarcasm, and extreme examples to make a point. His POLICIES, on the other hand, are much more conservative, and THAT is what the Church is based on. That bullshit about concentration camps is based on one comment made in one book in 1952 - and by the way, the non-Scientologist world does exactly that, rounds up people and places them in "prisons". The actual Hubbard quote says that youre only two choices are to round them up or to process them to improve their tone level. Incidentally, we ARE doing just that with criminals, in a program called Criminon
Criminon
Third, what you write about "if you never join Scientology you're worthless to humanity" is complete rubbish. No sane Scientologist believes that, Hubbard definitely did not. He encouraged Scientologists to work with all men and women of good will to make this a better place.
RE: Cooper:
You're talking about ancient history, and you're only looking at the anti side. Not fair research.
RE: Black PR
You got it all wrong. Hubbard describes this practice to make our officers aware that this practice was being used AGAINST us. He actively prohibited Scientology officials from using such a practice. He encourages a practice of "dead-agenting" such Black PR material, which means to prove it false and thus discredit the lying source.
I am a typical Scientologist, and I do not know of any that lie about who they are. Dude, you're getting all your info from haters. That's not balanced research. Check out
Another look at the Scientology controversy
Well, you sorta have a point there - lack of copyrights in that case allowed free dissemination... but resulted in complete alteration. So it's a matter of which is the more important objective, widespread distribution or standard, unaltered application. In the case of Mr. Hubbard, he considered #2 more important. BTW, "slavering rondroid"? Cute. :-)~
Ouch! That really hurt my feelings ;-)
Here's some stuff about Scientology, if anyone cares to look.
Live and let live, dude.
Hi Anonymous Coward :-)
You speaketh of what you knoweth not (in other words, you're speaking through your ass, dude.)
The disconnection policy only applies in dire, extreme situations. This exists outside of Scientology too - it's called a restraining order. Like in the case of an abusive husband.
It's such bs that people like you grab onto such extreme situations and run with it, instead of looking honestly at the day-to-day life of Scientologists. But then again, not much controversy there, we just pay our taxes, go to work, send our kids to school, study when we get a chance, watch Oprah and eat Pringles like any other human.
Instead of spreading the malice, learn a little tolerance and dare to think for yourself. Scientology may not be for you, but it isn't the Boogyman either.
some stuff about Scientology
1) There is no such thing as "commercial copyrights" - just copyrights. You're just trying to slant things. 2) If Chistianity had copyrighted Jesus' words, today we might have a clue as to what the guy actually did say, instead of all these altered versions. Oh well.
I got no masters (only a Bachelor's - LOL) and nobody's trying to harm you. Can we have an intelligent conversation, or is this the nonsense you're gonna spew out?
Dude, that site lists all kinds of people who died of old age, and people who never even existed. Data as inaccurate as it is slanderous. And since we're on murders, how about the innocent Scientologists who were recently murdered in Portland by a hate-bigot fueled by hate-sites he read? Sticks and stones, dude. Sure.
Actually, I've been a Scientologist for two decades and all I've gotten out of it is great family values, a kid in an Honors program, a great career, and a happy marriage. Scientology is not what you read on the Net, especially from biased hate-sites. Get a clue.
That's really hilarious. Sure, and Barbi is a Jewish Doll. Let me know what your views on Sasquatch are. ;-)
God, are we really gonna go completely OFF-TOPIC into this? The site you present is a completely biased view by people who hate my religion. Not a very credible source. It's like asking Rush Limbaugh about Democrats or asking David Duke about Blacks. It's all twisted hatespeak. Check out my site LiveAndGrow for a more accurate portrayal, or stick with the haters - up to you. Note: I happen to BE a Scientologist, been one for 20 years. I do know a thing or two about the subject; I'm not just some curious web-surfer who found a hate link and thinks he's got the "inside scoop."
Scientology does nothing of the sort. Otherwise all those crazy wackos with hate stories about Scientology would NOT BE on the Net, would they. Duh. All that Scientology does is fight to keep its own intellectual copyrighted property off of its enemies hands - which is pretty sensible in light of the vicious attacks it has received. See http://www.theta.com/goodman/letter.htm