About 50% of all people who use Napster usually buy the CD later or already own the CDs. Do I need to mention that downloading mp3s when you own the CD is not illegal? (At least, not where I'm from). You can also keep mp3s off of CDs you don't own for up to 24 hours without being subject to copyright laws. Sure, Napster gives a user the possibility to violate copyright law. However, to make another anology, 99% of all guns are used to commit crimes with. You gonna outlaw guns too? (Then again, we did just that in Europe already) Jashamel
I'm wondering if any of you actually know what kind of company NCR is. If you've actually read the article you will see that they make ATM machines, cash-registers and datawarehouses. Now I don't know, but I seriously doubt that any of these products use Microsoft software at all. (At least, I hope that the scanners or the ATMs or the Terrabyte-large datawarehouse servers aren't running windowsNT, or something.) Now they've sued netscape for violating patents on "organizing and retrieving information from computer databases". This has nothing to do with html, or the mail-client or whatever. And as for wanting to make a few quick bucks, do you really think a company that earned 6.5 billion dollars in sales, would sue a company that didn't even make 10 percent that much?
I don't know, but I think that maybe people are generalizing too much again (as usual too).
(PS, where did this 'trying to better their position with Microsoft' shit come from?)
If I found out that the ISP was aware of the situation, and that they wouldn't refund part of my money (the cost above a dial-up-only), I would have filed a class action suit on behalf of the customers.
Why? Did your ISP take down your site? Did the ISP block it? I don't think so. The site was viewable, only not to people who use the Cyberpatrol software. This is not the ISPs problem nor responsibility, though they in a perfect world they should've told their users.
Where I live, in the Netherlands if you were to go to court over this, you'd probably get fined by the state for wasting a judge's time. You can go to the TV Consumer's Guide, which is a program on TV which brings these things into publicity and probably works a lot better!
Anyways, I work at an ISP and yes, sometimes I get customers on the line who try to blame our company for things like this. An example of a while back, it turned out a company had blacklisted our mail-servers, due to spammers sending mail from these IPs. This meant all mail sent from our smtp servers was simply bounced. Now about all an ISP can do about this is contact the company and ask them why, and to see if it can be resolved. However, if they refuse to remove us from their blacklist, then that's not our responsibility anymore. I believe it has to do with 'circumstances not under the control' of the ISP.
As for sueing, take a good look at your 'license agreement'... read it word for word, I believe most ISPs have themselves covered against this stuff.
Fourteen or fifteen year olds should be doing things like sports or camping. They are still children, even if their bodies don't think so
And I could name some twenty-two year olds who are still children, even though they don't look it. Sure, 14/15 yr olds should be doing things like sports or camping, but what's wrong with some edutainment? Because if that's what it basically is. If you're an open-minded person, you'll question things when you are confronted by them. Through that questioning of life, you grow. Personally, I would consider letting children reading this entire thread because it shows them how *cough* grown-ups *cough* view them.
The question is, do certain people (or institutions) want other people to question their existence, beliefs and morals of right and wrong all the time? It doesn't lead you to a safe, mindless life, but it sure as Hell keep life interesting and dynamic.
We're living in a world where people are growing up faster than before. Whether it's good or bad, I don't know. But I won't interfere with their growing up. To try to prevent their growth is not only stupid, but wrong and useless. Grow WITH your kids, if you ask me.
Now if the parents are unable to be responsible for their kids, shouldn't the government try to do something to prevent the cycle from becoming worse? I would prefer if the government didn't have to be involved, but I don't think the bad parents are getting much better.
Then perhaps the government should force parents to take classes on raising their kids? The problem doesn't lie with the kids. It lies with parents not caring for their kids, or not knowing what their kids are doing. Personally, I think it's too easy to blame TV, or movies, or the neighbors cat. Look to the parents, I think most of the time kids get into trouble is because they try to impress friends, or to get attention. My parents let me see and experience mostly everything I wanted, but they showed me what was acceptable and what not. (climbing on my mother's car to get into the tree was a definite nono, btw:P) The trick, I guess, is to let your kids grow and learn in their own way, but also being there when they have questions. I guess I didn't turn out so bad, well... if you ignore my inherent dislike for institutions which try to force things on me.
Being told that everyday is a day of sin, that I should pray to the Lord for forgiveness, and that if I believe in God, then I'll go to heaven.
Don't know what to say??? I don't either, come on man!
Our country is closer now to "religious discrimination" then in ever has been - but only in the context of restricting prayer in school and the like.
Hmm... so if we allow prayers in high school, will you allow chants before class for the *gasp* Heathen pagans? What about 5 minute meditation for people who like to clear their minds of excess thoughts? Personally, if you want to pray in school.. FINE, but do it on your own, not over the school's PA, forcing non-believers to listen to it as well. Because that is closer to religious discrimination
Mom" is a word which represents a caring, nuturing class of women who have the BEST interest of the children in mind
Oh come on! For all you know this mother tucks her kids in at night, reads them stories, spends entire weekends with them, but just lets her children see and experience what she thinks they need. The best interest of the children in mind?? Who are you to decide that. If I let my 15-yr old kid see movies like 'Saving Private Ryan, does that make me evil? Or just maybe, did you think I decided that my kid needed to see what war is really about?? That's it's not pretty or "cool". THAT's education... not the generalized 'you can't see this, it's not right for you'.
Speak up, you say? Well, consider me as speaking up... against such mindless censorship from orginizations from which YOU seem to hail, Ultrapenguin!
As for the post, yes I was irritated, it probably shows in the writing, oh well..
(Uhm.. btw, this might hold some offense language, since I can't make examples without the examples. If it offends, well..:) )
Hmm... ratings, yeah we have those here too. I think something like 16 and 18. Movies aren't really rated that much here, or at least I never noticed much of them. Ratings here are put on movies though I think they're more like advised ratings than required. I've seen kids under 18 enter movies like showgirls. Movies like 'Army of Darkness' and 'Braindead' can be viewed by just about everyone. They're not gonna ask at the videostore how old you are, unless you look like uhm... 11?
I agree with JonKatz that Hollywood people are going WAY overboard with observing/complying w/ ratings. If parents allow their kids to see Southpark, then theirs should be the final word. Parents are responsible for raising their kids, not the movie companies.
However, parents are responsible for knowing what their kids watching, and explaining to them the difference between accepted behavior and non-accepted behavior. I see kids watching southpark without guidance, and they start copying it. That's all very nice, but personally I don't think it accepted behavior to speak to grandparents, teachers or passerby's on the street with referals such as: "Hey, Butt-pipe!" or to tell them they're a 'cock-sucking, ass-licking, uncle Fucka'. And that's just language.
I can see where after a while, shooting people who you don't like will turn into accepted behavior. However, this is for the parents to moderate. Of course, you have to ask yourself... do all parents do this? How many of them use the TV as a babysitter or to 'get rid of their kids'? In the end, I guess you're either a parent, or you're someone who just has kids.
So who's right and who's wrong in the rating battle? I don't know. I agree that ratings are stupid... but ever wonder if perhaps they've become necessary? Morbid thought, isn't it?
I have a computer w/ RH 6.0 at home which forwards stuff from my win98 box (*cringe*, yes, I know) to the internet. I use ipchains as well, which transfers everything from 10.0.0.1/24 so I can hook up quite a lot more computers, which is nice for when I got friends over:P
Everyone on the internet sees the ip address of the server, though if they try to resolve usernames they get things like: @(ip address). It works fine with things like ICQ, AIM, ftp and almost everything. The only exception I have found so far is the game Baldur's gate, which won't work over the internet. It works fine on the internal network, but try to connect outside and it just doesn't do squat. I should probably test this with Diablo as well, see if that works. Oh well, my opinion is that Ipchains works fine.
Slashdot Mirror
About 50% of all people who use Napster usually buy the CD later or already own the CDs. Do I need to mention that downloading mp3s when you own the CD is not illegal? (At least, not where I'm from). You can also keep mp3s off of CDs you don't own for up to 24 hours without being subject to copyright laws. Sure, Napster gives a user the possibility to violate copyright law. However, to make another anology, 99% of all guns are used to commit crimes with. You gonna outlaw guns too? (Then again, we did just that in Europe already) Jashamel
I'm wondering if any of you actually know what kind of company NCR is. If you've actually read the article you will see that they make ATM machines, cash-registers and datawarehouses. Now I don't know, but I seriously doubt that any of these products use Microsoft software at all. (At least, I hope that the scanners or the ATMs or the Terrabyte-large datawarehouse servers aren't running windowsNT, or something.)
Now they've sued netscape for violating patents on "organizing and retrieving information from computer databases". This has nothing to do with html, or the mail-client or whatever.
And as for wanting to make a few quick bucks, do you really think a company that earned 6.5 billion dollars in sales, would sue a company that didn't even make 10 percent that much?
I don't know, but I think that maybe people are generalizing too much again (as usual too).
(PS, where did this 'trying to better their position with Microsoft' shit come from?)
If I found out that the ISP was aware of the situation, and that they wouldn't refund part of my money (the cost above a dial-up-only), I would have filed a class action suit on behalf of the customers.
Why? Did your ISP take down your site? Did the ISP block it? I don't think so. The site was viewable, only not to people who use the Cyberpatrol software. This is not the ISPs problem nor responsibility, though they in a perfect world they should've told their users.
Where I live, in the Netherlands if you were to go to court over this, you'd probably get fined by the state for wasting a judge's time. You can go to the TV Consumer's Guide, which is a program on TV which brings these things into publicity and probably works a lot better!
Anyways, I work at an ISP and yes, sometimes I get customers on the line who try to blame our company for things like this. An example of a while back, it turned out a company had blacklisted our mail-servers, due to spammers sending mail from these IPs. This meant all mail sent from our smtp servers was simply bounced. Now about all an ISP can do about this is contact the company and ask them why, and to see if it can be resolved. However, if they refuse to remove us from their blacklist, then that's not our responsibility anymore. I believe it has to do with 'circumstances not under the control' of the ISP.
As for sueing, take a good look at your 'license agreement'... read it word for word, I believe most ISPs have themselves covered against this stuff.
Big, bad, evil ISP employee,
Jashamel
Fourteen or fifteen year olds should be doing things like sports or camping. They are still children, even if their bodies don't think so
And I could name some twenty-two year olds who are still children, even though they don't look it. Sure, 14/15 yr olds should be doing things like sports or camping, but what's wrong with some edutainment? Because if that's what it basically is. If you're an open-minded person, you'll question things when you are confronted by them. Through that questioning of life, you grow. Personally, I would consider letting children reading this entire thread because it shows them how *cough* grown-ups *cough* view them.
The question is, do certain people (or institutions) want other people to question their existence, beliefs and morals of right and wrong all the time? It doesn't lead you to a safe, mindless life, but it sure as Hell keep life interesting and dynamic.
We're living in a world where people are growing up faster than before. Whether it's good or bad, I don't know. But I won't interfere with their growing up. To try to prevent their growth is not only stupid, but wrong and useless. Grow WITH your kids, if you ask me.
Now if the parents are unable to be responsible for their kids, shouldn't the government try to do something to prevent the cycle from becoming worse? I would prefer if the government didn't have to be involved, but I don't think the bad parents are getting much better.
:P)
Then perhaps the government should force parents to take classes on raising their kids? The problem doesn't lie with the kids. It lies with parents not caring for their kids, or not knowing what their kids are doing. Personally, I think it's too easy to blame TV, or movies, or the neighbors cat.
Look to the parents, I think most of the time kids get into trouble is because they try to impress friends, or to get attention.
My parents let me see and experience mostly everything I wanted, but they showed me what was acceptable and what not. (climbing on my mother's car to get into the tree was a definite nono, btw
The trick, I guess, is to let your kids grow and learn in their own way, but also being there when they have questions. I guess I didn't turn out so bad, well... if you ignore my inherent dislike for institutions which try to force things on me.
Whatever happened to Free Choice anyhow?
This allows PARENTS or ADULTS to decide and not some rating board.
:))
Then perhaps it becomes time to educate the parents, and not the kids
Jashamel
Personally, you know what traumatizes me?
Being told that everyday is a day of sin, that I should pray to the Lord for forgiveness, and that if I believe in God, then I'll go to heaven.
Don't know what to say??? I don't either, come on man!
Our country is closer now to "religious discrimination" then in ever has been - but only in the context of restricting prayer in school and the like.
Hmm... so if we allow prayers in high school, will you allow chants before class for the *gasp* Heathen pagans? What about 5 minute meditation for people who like to clear their minds of excess thoughts?
Personally, if you want to pray in school.. FINE, but do it on your own, not over the school's PA, forcing non-believers to listen to it as well. Because that is closer to religious discrimination
Mom" is a word which represents a caring, nuturing class of women who have the BEST interest of the children in mind
Oh come on! For all you know this mother tucks her kids in at night, reads them stories, spends entire weekends with them, but just lets her children see and experience what she thinks they need.
The best interest of the children in mind?? Who are you to decide that. If I let my 15-yr old kid see movies like 'Saving Private Ryan, does that make me evil? Or just maybe, did you think I decided that my kid needed to see what war is really about?? That's it's not pretty or "cool". THAT's education... not the generalized 'you can't see this, it's not right for you'.
Speak up, you say? Well, consider me as speaking up... against such mindless censorship from orginizations from which YOU seem to hail, Ultrapenguin!
As for the post, yes I was irritated, it probably shows in the writing, oh well..
(Uhm.. btw, this might hold some offense language, since I can't make examples without the examples. If it offends, well.. :) )
Hmm... ratings, yeah we have those here too. I think something like 16 and 18. Movies aren't really rated that much here, or at least I never noticed much of them. Ratings here are put on movies though I think they're more like advised ratings than required. I've seen kids under 18 enter movies like showgirls. Movies like 'Army of Darkness' and 'Braindead' can be viewed by just about everyone. They're not gonna ask at the videostore how old you are, unless you look like uhm... 11?
I agree with JonKatz that Hollywood people are going WAY overboard with observing/complying w/ ratings. If parents allow their kids to see Southpark, then theirs should be the final word. Parents are responsible for raising their kids, not the movie companies.
However, parents are responsible for knowing what their kids watching, and explaining to them the difference between accepted behavior and non-accepted behavior. I see kids watching southpark without guidance, and they start copying it. That's all very nice, but personally I don't think it accepted behavior to speak to grandparents, teachers or passerby's on the street with referals such as: "Hey, Butt-pipe!" or to tell them they're a 'cock-sucking, ass-licking, uncle Fucka'. And that's just language.
I can see where after a while, shooting people who you don't like will turn into accepted behavior. However, this is for the parents to moderate. Of course, you have to ask yourself... do all parents do this? How many of them use the TV as a babysitter or to 'get rid of their kids'?
In the end, I guess you're either a parent, or you're someone who just has kids.
So who's right and who's wrong in the rating battle? I don't know. I agree that ratings are stupid... but ever wonder if perhaps they've become necessary? Morbid thought, isn't it?
Jashamel
I have a computer w/ RH 6.0 at home which forwards stuff from my win98 box (*cringe*, yes, I know) to the internet. I use ipchains as well, which transfers everything from 10.0.0.1/24 so I can hook up quite a lot more computers, which is nice for when I got friends over :P
Everyone on the internet sees the ip address of the server, though if they try to resolve usernames they get things like: @(ip address). It works fine with things like ICQ, AIM, ftp and almost everything.
The only exception I have found so far is the game Baldur's gate, which won't work over the internet. It works fine on the internal network, but try to connect outside and it just doesn't do squat. I should probably test this with Diablo as well, see if that works.
Oh well, my opinion is that Ipchains works fine.