Here is where all of these arguments fall through. The evil "single-payer" system we want in health care mirrors another single payer system: your local fire department. I don't remember seeing very much anti-fire department posts on here, or really ever hear too many people complaining about that.
No that is where your argument, and understanding, fails. Single-payer health care insurance is a nationwide proposal. Fire departments are local agencies, and the Constitution of the USA don't not bar them. Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People specifically gives the power for fire departments to the states or the people. Now if each state, county or parish, or city were to come up with single-payer health care insurance I would not call it against the USA Constitution, though it might be against a state's constitution. That I don't know. Of course if a state, county, or city were to try to institute a single-payer system I would fight against it, but I would only argue it was unconstitutional if I found the state constitution said it was.
We all pay taxes to support our local fire department
So you even admit fire departments are local, not national. I have no problem with local taxes paying for local services. In the case of fire and police departments, even libraries, I don't have problem with local taxes paying them. Property taxes though not income tax. Roads can and should be paid for with user fees, perhaps a combination of fuel taxes and mileage taxes, the more you drive the more you pay.
What the FCC is doing is reclassifying it as a regulated service. Once that is done they are perfectly within their rights to regulate the shit out of it.
What gives the FCC the power to decide what is a regulated service? Only congress can give the FCC that power, and Congress has not. That's what all this talk about net neutrality in congress is about, some want broadband regulated whereas others do not.
I did not make any retraction, though one is owed, by you. The constitutional does not say anything about what a traitor is. Here's a link to the constitution, I dare you point out where the word "traitor" is. Hint, it's not there, you're just trolling.
Duh! I know all about the interstate commerce clause, though you didn't (you did leave out the "interstate" part). And congress could have used the clause but it didn't. If congress wanted to use it they could have said "No state shall bar a person in one state from buying health insurance in another state." That would have been a proper use of the interstate commerce clause.
And you are deciding now what is constitutional, even saying the USSC already decided that "that decades ago". I bet you can not produce one Supreme Court ruling giving the feds the authority to regulate health care or insurance. If they had then a federal judge never would have found the law unconstitutional. But of course you and not me or a judge gets to decide what's unconstitutional.
You clearly do not understand how monopolies can arise in areas that lack regulation and how they are nearly impossible to get rid of without regulation. I would suggest you educate yourself before you start making proclamations on how things should be done.
Perhaps you do the same, educate yourself. The only way small groups of companies gain power is by government granted monopolies. And when an industry is finally regulated, it's usually the industry that writes those regulations. Usually to keep anymore competition out.
Oh, so now you've redefined the Constitution to make Senators and other elected officials just proxy voters for their constituents?
No, you did. Can you point one place in the Constitution where either "health" or "medicine" appears? No, because neither are there. Because they are not there Franken is taking more than one step beyond the bounds of congressional power, as Thomas Jefferson said. "To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."
Senators are definitely not sworn to uphold the will of the majority of their constituents,
But they are sworn to defend the Constitution. Specifically their oath is (the relevant part in bold) "I,___ ___ , do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."
I believe the constitution mentions the citizens of the US should have freedom and general welfare
Freedom yes, but requiring people to buy health insurance denies freedom. And "general welfare" does not mean what you think it does. The USA's Founding Fathers set out exactly what the federal government can do, the Constitution of the USA says exactly that. And nowhere in it will anybody find socialized medicine in it. Hell neither health nor medicine can be found in it anywhere, and as Thomas Jefferson said "a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."
Capitalism isn't freedom.
But free markets and free trade is freedom. Franken wants to limit both, he supports fining people for not buying insurance and he supports censoring the net.
think many people think Capitalism has something to do with freedom, when, in fact, in capitalism wealth (and therefore power) is concentrated into ever fewer hands.
It may not be to you but it is to me. Anything that limits what I can do even if I am not harming another person is bad. Forcing me to pay for health insurance I don't want, is bad. Censoring the internet, like Al Franken voted to do is bad. Okay, okay I know that censorship isn't a socialist idea but it's still bad. Forcing me to pay someone else's health care costs is socialistic. As is single-payer health insurance.
Well, according to George W. Bush the Constitution is just a God Damned piece of paper.
Saying this I hope you don't think I oppose Franken simply because I am Republican. I said the same about Bush treating the Constitution like toilet paper. I am not. I am registered "No Party Preference".
Actually I have voted for Democrats, Independents and independents (there is an Independent party), Reform Party candidates, and Republicans. I vote for the candidate that believes in and will follow the Constitution of the USA. I oppose those who like Thomas Jefferson warned of, will "take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."
He's probably irritated at the heavy handed way the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled there was no merit to re-checking all
Not at all. Though I don't support Franken, I also didn't like it when there was the question of whether the Senate would even allow him to take his chair. I may not like someone but that's no reason to deny him or her the position that person was elected to. Franken won the seat in the Senate, now it's up to him to follow the Constitution. If he doesn't like it, he can propose to amend it. But until it is amended he better uphold his oath and the Constitution.
Where is your evidence? Your statement sounds like opinion. When has Franken disregarded the constitution?
From his own mouth, Al Franken supports single-payer health care insurance. Now where in the Constitution is that power given to the federal government? Hint, it doesn't, and as Founding Father Thomas Jefferson said, "To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."
you come across as angry and uninformed in your posts.
The problem is that by allowing corporations to grow into monopolies and mega-corporations who have diversified and subsumed entire markets
And who gave corporations that power? Governments did.
Take any major industry... food for example. If you do a little research you find that it all boils down to half a dozen super corporations, that control everything from the seed that's planted to the packaging that arrives at your grocery store.
Half of the food in my kitchen, back in September it was more like 3/4, I either grew in my garden or I bought at local farmers markets. For about a month this summer I ate salad every day, I picked the greens from my garden. Though I didn't if I wanted to I could have, and might this coming year, join a community supported agriculture(CSA) based local farm. For a set amount of dollars I would have fruit and veggies, produce, delivered from the farm to me weekly. More and more people are buying into CSA.
Do you honestly plan to stop eating at restaurants or buying the 95% percent of the food on the shelves that contains the wheat, soy, or corn products produced by those mega-corporations?
I am a member of 2 co-ops in my are, though there are a bunch more. All of them in my area buy from and support local producers, so called "conventional" and organic.
You know the ones, that are receiving billions of dollars of your tax dollars in subsidies for the privilege of better controlling your life.
I have argued repeatedly against subsidies, whether they are farm subsidies or nuclear power industry subsidies.
This is all just basic contract and property rights. I know you have libertarian leanings, and let me tell you, this is one reason I distrust libertarians.
Spreading FUD about Libertarians are you? Upholding contracts and rights, including property rights, is what Libertarians stand for.
I don't think he's a buffoon, but, you're right, it is a shame that people tune him out. Maybe those who tune him out should take this opportunity to rethink their position on the guy. So few politicians are willing to defend net neutrality it's really nice to see someone buck that trend.
I see no reason to listen to a socialist who wants to censor the net. That is listen other than to fight against him.
how Net Neutrality will be saved or broken is a technological issue
No, net neutrality is a political issue. In a free market it would be a technological issue but governments have already granted large corporations monopolies.
ensure that mega-giganto-corporations can't simply squish out everyone else's freedom of speech by drowning them out. Which at this point, thanks to a collection of bought-off Supreme Court boobs, may require constitutional amendment itself.:(
The guy can make a good arguments without resorting to shouting or out right ignoring the public.
As senator Al Franken not only ignored the majority of voters, who opposed health-care insurance reform, he ignored the Constitution of the USA too.
TFA makes some good points and breaks down "Net Neutrality" to the lay person who just wants to use the internet. You should try reading it.
I did, and I questioned what he said, did you? He says the FCC already has the power to regulate the internet but he provides no references to back up his statement. Courts have already ruled the FCC does not have those powers.
There's a strong correlation between being funny and being intelligent. You have to be both intelligent and observant to come up with jokes that people find funny.
BS! While he may of been intelligent, you don't see intelligence in Jerry Lewis movies. Nor do you see it in Marx Brothers, Laural and Hardy, or other slapstick movies. I won't watch a lot of the comedy I come across today because I find it stupid, actually I don't watch comedy much.
Slashdot Mirror
Here is where all of these arguments fall through. The evil "single-payer" system we want in health care mirrors another single payer system: your local fire department. I don't remember seeing very much anti-fire department posts on here, or really ever hear too many people complaining about that.
No that is where your argument, and understanding, fails. Single-payer health care insurance is a nationwide proposal. Fire departments are local agencies, and the Constitution of the USA don't not bar them. Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People specifically gives the power for fire departments to the states or the people. Now if each state, county or parish, or city were to come up with single-payer health care insurance I would not call it against the USA Constitution, though it might be against a state's constitution. That I don't know. Of course if a state, county, or city were to try to institute a single-payer system I would fight against it, but I would only argue it was unconstitutional if I found the state constitution said it was.
We all pay taxes to support our local fire department
So you even admit fire departments are local, not national. I have no problem with local taxes paying for local services. In the case of fire and police departments, even libraries, I don't have problem with local taxes paying them. Property taxes though not income tax. Roads can and should be paid for with user fees, perhaps a combination of fuel taxes and mileage taxes, the more you drive the more you pay.
Falcon
What the FCC is doing is reclassifying it as a regulated service. Once that is done they are perfectly within their rights to regulate the shit out of it.
What gives the FCC the power to decide what is a regulated service? Only congress can give the FCC that power, and Congress has not. That's what all this talk about net neutrality in congress is about, some want broadband regulated whereas others do not.
So close, yet so far.
Nope, not close.
Falcon
So, if you are of no party preference, then why did you say that you are a Republican in a preceding sentence?
Point to where I did say I was Republican. I bet you can't, because I did not say I was.
Falcon
That's right. You shouldn't.
So he agrees he's a troll.
Falcon
I did not make any retraction, though one is owed, by you. The constitutional does not say anything about what a traitor is. Here's a link to the constitution, I dare you point out where the word "traitor" is. Hint, it's not there, you're just trolling.
Falcon
Duh! I know all about the interstate commerce clause, though you didn't (you did leave out the "interstate" part). And congress could have used the clause but it didn't. If congress wanted to use it they could have said "No state shall bar a person in one state from buying health insurance in another state." That would have been a proper use of the interstate commerce clause.
And you are deciding now what is constitutional, even saying the USSC already decided that "that decades ago". I bet you can not produce one Supreme Court ruling giving the feds the authority to regulate health care or insurance. If they had then a federal judge never would have found the law unconstitutional. But of course you and not me or a judge gets to decide what's unconstitutional.
Falcon
You clearly do not understand how monopolies can arise in areas that lack regulation and how they are nearly impossible to get rid of without regulation. I would suggest you educate yourself before you start making proclamations on how things should be done.
Perhaps you do the same, educate yourself. The only way small groups of companies gain power is by government granted monopolies. And when an industry is finally regulated, it's usually the industry that writes those regulations. Usually to keep anymore competition out.
Falcon
I know I shouldn't respond but, troll
Falcon
It denies freedom!!!
Falcon
The "vote" you, techdirt and cnet are reporting about merely brings the bill out of committee and to the Senate floor...nothing more.
In other words, he didn't even try to stop it.
Falcon
Oh, so now you've redefined the Constitution to make Senators and other elected officials just proxy voters for their constituents?
No, you did. Can you point one place in the Constitution where either "health" or "medicine" appears? No, because neither are there. Because they are not there Franken is taking more than one step beyond the bounds of congressional power, as Thomas Jefferson said. "To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."
Senators are definitely not sworn to uphold the will of the majority of their constituents,
But they are sworn to defend the Constitution. Specifically their oath is (the relevant part in bold) "I,___ ___ , do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."
Falcon
Troll
Falcon
I believe the constitution mentions the citizens of the US should have freedom and general welfare
Freedom yes, but requiring people to buy health insurance denies freedom. And "general welfare" does not mean what you think it does. The USA's Founding Fathers set out exactly what the federal government can do, the Constitution of the USA says exactly that. And nowhere in it will anybody find socialized medicine in it. Hell neither health nor medicine can be found in it anywhere, and as Thomas Jefferson said "a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."
Capitalism isn't freedom.
But free markets and free trade is freedom. Franken wants to limit both, he supports fining people for not buying insurance and he supports censoring the net.
think many people think Capitalism has something to do with freedom, when, in fact, in capitalism wealth (and therefore power) is concentrated into ever fewer hands.
No it's you who are mistaken. That is not capitalism, what you describe is corporatism and the corporate aristocracy Thomas Jefferson warned of. Or as El Duce, Mussolini, said Fascism is corporatism.
Falcon
It may not be to you but it is to me. Anything that limits what I can do even if I am not harming another person is bad. Forcing me to pay for health insurance I don't want, is bad. Censoring the internet, like Al Franken voted to do is bad. Okay, okay I know that censorship isn't a socialist idea but it's still bad. Forcing me to pay someone else's health care costs is socialistic. As is single-payer health insurance.
Falcon
Well, according to George W. Bush the Constitution is just a God Damned piece of paper.
Saying this I hope you don't think I oppose Franken simply because I am Republican. I said the same about Bush treating the Constitution like toilet paper. I am not. I am registered "No Party Preference".
Actually I have voted for Democrats, Independents and independents (there is an Independent party), Reform Party candidates, and Republicans. I vote for the candidate that believes in and will follow the Constitution of the USA. I oppose those who like Thomas Jefferson warned of, will "take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."
Falcon
I just want to point out that you have just accused a US senator of treason without any evidence.
I did not provide evidence that Franken was a traitor because I did not accuse him of being one.
As you want to troll, don't expect me to respond to you again.
Falcon
He's probably irritated at the heavy handed way the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled there was no merit to re-checking all
Not at all. Though I don't support Franken, I also didn't like it when there was the question of whether the Senate would even allow him to take his chair. I may not like someone but that's no reason to deny him or her the position that person was elected to. Franken won the seat in the Senate, now it's up to him to follow the Constitution. If he doesn't like it, he can propose to amend it. But until it is amended he better uphold his oath and the Constitution.
Falcon
Where is your evidence? Your statement sounds like opinion. When has Franken disregarded the constitution?
From his own mouth, Al Franken supports single-payer health care insurance. Now where in the Constitution is that power given to the federal government? Hint, it doesn't, and as Founding Father Thomas Jefferson said, "To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."
you come across as angry and uninformed in your posts.
I am angry, and informed.
Falcon
The problem is that by allowing corporations to grow into monopolies and mega-corporations who have diversified and subsumed entire markets
And who gave corporations that power? Governments did.
Take any major industry... food for example. If you do a little research you find that it all boils down to half a dozen super corporations, that control everything from the seed that's planted to the packaging that arrives at your grocery store.
Half of the food in my kitchen, back in September it was more like 3/4, I either grew in my garden or I bought at local farmers markets. For about a month this summer I ate salad every day, I picked the greens from my garden. Though I didn't if I wanted to I could have, and might this coming year, join a community supported agriculture(CSA) based local farm. For a set amount of dollars I would have fruit and veggies, produce, delivered from the farm to me weekly. More and more people are buying into CSA.
Do you honestly plan to stop eating at restaurants or buying the 95% percent of the food on the shelves that contains the wheat, soy, or corn products produced by those mega-corporations?
I am a member of 2 co-ops in my are, though there are a bunch more. All of them in my area buy from and support local producers, so called "conventional" and organic.
You know the ones, that are receiving billions of dollars of your tax dollars in subsidies for the privilege of better controlling your life.
I have argued repeatedly against subsidies, whether they are farm subsidies or nuclear power industry subsidies.
Falcon
This is all just basic contract and property rights. I know you have libertarian leanings, and let me tell you, this is one reason I distrust libertarians.
Spreading FUD about Libertarians are you? Upholding contracts and rights, including property rights, is what Libertarians stand for.
Falcon
I don't think he's a buffoon, but, you're right, it is a shame that people tune him out. Maybe those who tune him out should take this opportunity to rethink their position on the guy. So few politicians are willing to defend net neutrality it's really nice to see someone buck that trend.
I see no reason to listen to a socialist who wants to censor the net. That is listen other than to fight against him.
Falcon
how Net Neutrality will be saved or broken is a technological issue
No, net neutrality is a political issue. In a free market it would be a technological issue but governments have already granted large corporations monopolies.
Falcon
ensure that mega-giganto-corporations can't simply squish out everyone else's freedom of speech by drowning them out. Which at this point, thanks to a collection of bought-off Supreme Court boobs, may require constitutional amendment itself. :(
Non-profits have the same ability. The case the USSC ruled in was Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission and Citizens United is a non-profit not a corporation.
Falcon
The guy can make a good arguments without resorting to shouting or out right ignoring the public.
As senator Al Franken not only ignored the majority of voters, who opposed health-care insurance reform, he ignored the Constitution of the USA too.
TFA makes some good points and breaks down "Net Neutrality" to the lay person who just wants to use the internet. You should try reading it.
I did, and I questioned what he said, did you? He says the FCC already has the power to regulate the internet but he provides no references to back up his statement. Courts have already ruled the FCC does not have those powers.
Not only that but Al Franken voted to censor the net.
Falcon
There's a strong correlation between being funny and being intelligent. You have to be both intelligent and observant to come up with jokes that people find funny.
BS! While he may of been intelligent, you don't see intelligence in Jerry Lewis movies. Nor do you see it in Marx Brothers, Laural and Hardy, or other slapstick movies. I won't watch a lot of the comedy I come across today because I find it stupid, actually I don't watch comedy much.
Falcon