Outing them may prevent similar acts in the future, and it allows the public to choose (lawful) disconnection and ostracism as options. If I had any business interaction with the Drews I'd sever it and make the severance public.
I think that the term you'd be looking for would be 'displacement'.
Thanks, "displacement" may work. Another word I thought of when I read the above was "distort" and I'll try it too.
My house needs to be heated. I'm outside of NG range, so my main choices are electric or propane. Right now propane is substantially cheaper than electric - but with the right setup(like a geothermal heat pump), electric would be cheaper.
I rent now but it's kind of like "rent to own". When the building is transfered to me I plan on converting the heating as well. Right now a boiler in the basement, burning propane, provides heating with only 1 thermostat covering the building. What I want to do is first improve the insulation, my apartment on the first floor can get warm while the apartments above will be cold. Then if feasible I want to use a geothermal heat pump as well. I'll use radiant floor heating and create heating zones for each apartment controlled by thermostats in each apartment. A person would be able to have the bedroom warming up before they hit the sack then lower the temp once they're out the door. The kitchen zone would then warm up before they got up so the floor wasn't cold while cooking. Now, do I really expect people to setup the room like that? No, but they will have the ability.
It'd just take a large capital investment - which isn't worth it at this time.
Yea, I hope I'll be able to save enough after a few years, I want to get a loan for it but still want to make sure I have at least most of the money. I could either take out a second mortgage or an equity line of credit, then roll it into a new mortgage when interest is low.
If it gets bad enough - you see more people driving electric cars because they're cheaper.
I think it was late last year but it of been early this year when I read about a study the "Economist" had that basically said those in the US pay something like 17% of their income on transportation. When oil prices are low they'll drive expensive gas guzzlers but when oil prices are high they drive fuel efficient vehicles.
On to your list of links... I found #4 interesting, because it considers not charging for CO2 emissions a subsidy.
In a way I consider a subsidy myself. Instead of the government giving the money, it's future generations who will have to pay. The Inuit in Nunavut are already paying. And not just for Global Warming, but for industrial pollution as well. Although the Inuit neither make nor consume Polychlorinated biphenyl, known to be highly toxic, their blood as been shown to have high PCB levels. Heck they even have high levels of DDT.
I hate to say it, but I think that they need to stop concentrating on reducing energy usage for a while and concentrate on appliance longevity. Chopping 10% off the electricity usage of an appliance makes sense when it lasts 20 years, but the average today is often less than 10, and for some is as low as 5, on average.
Oh, I'm in total agreement. It seems nobody takes pride in making something that can be handed down to grand and great grand children today. I lost it but about 15 years ago I had the shell of a Zippo lighter with the graving of a Chinese dragon that was made in the 1930's. It was in great shape. Design today is for planned obsolescence. Things should be made to last a long tyme, then easy to recycle. There's a good book partially on this, "Natural Capitalism". It has case studies of how company X improved it's bottom line by cleaning up pollution,
given that, the victim's parents decided to go public, against the advice of their lawyers, for exactly this effect: wide public knowledge and shaming of the perpetrator, and to warn people about what kind of mainpulations can go on
It was bloggers who revealed the responsible person NOT the parents. Or do yo have info that contradicts this?
I find very little credulity in the "You can't hide the truth from us" self-righteousness espoused by many of the bloggers involved in this. They merely saw what they could gain from the situation, not what was ethically or morally right.
Where did you get the info that those who outed this person only saw what they would gain? And what did they gain?
If there's someone stupid enough to pretend to be a teenage boy in order to grief an emotionally unstable teenage girl, there's someone stupid enough to uncover that person's identity.
It may be wrong but that's exactly what I think, and feel, about this though in previous posts I used "vicious" instead of "stupid".
In this case, I think that the bloggers in this case ought to feel really badly about having engaged in this sort of shenanigans. At this point, the woman had been reported to the sheriff's office, and there is a possible suit in the future. What they've done is managed to harm everybody involved in this that isn't already dead. Even then, I get the feeling that they would have pissed on her grave if they thought that could make a better story.
I think it's very important to out some one as vicious as this lady was, I'm glad she was outed. If she has a problem being outed then she should have thought about that before acting so vicious.
given that, the victim's parents decided to go public, against the advice of their lawyers, for exactly this effect: wide public knowledge and shaming of the perpetrator, and to warn people about what kind of mainpulations can go on
The victim's parents were grieving but they still refused to name the person responsible. It was bloggers and others who found out who the person was and revealed their name, not the parents.
Whether this was a real story or not, that woman did no one any harm; if she did Megan any harm, that's for law enforcement to deal with, not the rest of us.
A day or two ago CNN aired news on this. This 13 year old, Megan Meier, had a page on MySpace and thourgh it she met this "boy" Josh who complimented and fawned over her for more than a month. But then suddenly "Josh" told her she should die. Being upset she tried to talk to her mother but she brushed her off so Megan went upstairs to her room. Later her mother went upstairs and found her hanging in the closet. It ended up Josh was not a teen aged boy but in fact the mother of a girl living in the same neighborhood. Asked by her parents to press charges the police said she committed no crime but to me what she did not much of a different than if she had hanged Megan herself. Having said that I also partially hold her mother responsible, as a parent she should have helped her daughter when she was asked for help.
By digging up her personal information - for which no one had any real, legitimate use - much less posting it online - these bloggers have negligently put this entire family's safety at serious risk.
I think it's very appropriate and legitimate for someone who's vicious to be identified. If the safety of their family is important to them then they should have thought of it before harming someone else. It may only of been psychological and not physical harm but it was still harm, and intentional harm at that.
Yes, information wants to be free blah blah blah - wait until the media puts the unwanted spotlight on you for some minor b.s. (that most of us don't even care to read about) and some Jezebel-esque nutball digs up your personal information - including where you live - and puts it out there for any unbalanced, easily enraged headcase to come dot your forehead with a 9mm shell. Or maybe they'll stalk and kidnap your kid instead.
Oh and this mother didn't do any of this? She did in fact do this, even if the headcase was the girl herself.
Anyone who wants a thin client can keep it but I want something that can stand alone and be used. Reminds me how people used to say there's no need for a computer on the desk, now we're heading that way again.
At work we've decided not to upgrade to Leopard until Parallels actually works with it and we can buy more RAM. We have labs full of iMacs bought over the summer!
I'm typing this on a MBP that's about 3 months old and I have no plans on installing Leopard even though I have a disk with it Apple sent me. I don't see any compelling reason to right now.
The problem is his balls are terribly small. Steve is too scared of Microsoft and his own user base to release OSX for all computers. However, most Mac addicts would probby feel great about being ahead of the game if their precious OSX was released to everyone.
While Steve Jobs was gone from Apple Apple did license the Mac OS to clone makers but when Apple brought Jobs back he saw that the company was loosing more from lost hardware sales than Apple made from licenses. So he ended licensing the Mac OS. There's no way he wants to see that again. And yes, compeating directly against MS is a bad idea, MS has already show what it will do to competitors, put them out of business by whatever means necessary.
Yeah right. You'd have better luck arguing about Iraq being to enrich Bush's contractor buddies. We could have done Iraq very much differently and gotten the oil cheaper, safer, and more reliably if it had truly been about the oil.
As you say, Iraq isn't all about oil. It's also about making defense contractors like Blackwater and all the mercenaries they employee rich too. At the same tyme they avoid any prosecution for human right violations and other crimes. The US has been doing this for years, in Columbia contractors are used to spray herbicides on coca fields, but a lot of it is sprayed on villagers food crops. It would of been cheaper to just let Saddam run Iraq like he did in the 1980s while the Reagan and Bush Sr admins supported him. Back then he was spraying Kurds and March Arabs with chemical weapons, he gassed Iran, and did a bunch of other nasty stuff but the US's support only ended when he invaded Kuwait, a Sheikdom not a democracy.
This is also a false attack in the part that oil is a trivial source of electricity in the USA - Coal is #1, followed by Natural Gas, Nuclear, and hydroelectric. Petrochemical production is 1.6% - Mostly from standby generators.
But what effects one energy sector effects others as well. I don't understand it but someone else shared a link explaining, now I can't find it.
Name an electricity provider that gets 'billions' in subsidies other than solar/wind.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - FEDERAL
"USA, FEDERAL, Annual. (Multiple fuels). Green Scissors: Cutting Wasteful & Environmentally Harmful Spending. 2004 report. 2003 report. 2002 report. Summaries of wasteful government programs, including many in the energy area."
"Subsidies evaluated worth $37 - $64 billion per year to U. S. energy sector."
Energy Subsidies
How do energy subsidies distort the energy market?
"Reforming Energy Subsidies"[pdf]
In the United States, for example, renewables and energy conservation together receive only 5per cent of total federal energy subsidies, according to studies carried out by the Government in 1999."
Running On Empty: How Environmentally Harmful Energy Subsidies Siphon Billions From Taxpayers
January 31, 2002
I have been called a lot of things in my times on this site but that is a new one. Thanks! I shall add it to my list.
I don't know if you are one or not, if you are and took it that way and are happy good for you. People should use what they like and what works for them. After using MS Windows for 10 years I finally got frustrated enough to switch.
I don't think that Linux and Mac OS X are in direct concurrence. Simply because Mac owners will most of the time prefer Mac OS X, and that PC owners will rather move to Linux.
When I switched from Windows I got a PC with Linux preinstalled I'll set up as a server and for a laptop I got the Macbook Pro I'm typing this on.
That "spectacular failure" is selling about 300,000 copies per day.
How many of those copies are on brand new PC versus plain copies of Vista off a store shelf? Then can a person get a PC with XP installed instead or do they have to jump through hoops to install XP? This one I can answer, PC OEMs are shipping new PCs with XP after customers demanded it.
Then there is the fact they will not play fair in the markets using exclusive contracts to lock out competitors. ( can you buy Linux on a store shelf now?)
Yes you can grab Linux off a store shelf to buy, at least I can. I even bought a PC with Linux preinstalled. MS, where competition is looked at as bad, has played unfairly but Linux is available in stores.
Same can be said about anyone who believes their opinion to have some influence on reality. Which is about 95-97% of the users here.
Yea, that's true enough. While I like Macs, OS X, and Linux I've used mostly Windows. Unfortunately my favorite OS hasn't been kept current for many years, the OS I've used that I liked the most was the Amiga OS.
What is so bad about Vista when running on modern hardware?
Activaton, WGA and Spyware. Because of these three items MS insisted on I have switched from Windows to Linux for a server and OS X on the MacBook Pro I'm typing this on. I don't like it when a company treats me like a criminal when I buy a product from them!!!
Thats exactly why this can't be given to an international political body. They will just turn it into an unusable mess. I'm a Greek speaker, should Greek letters and accents be in domain names?
Greek is easier than Chinese, Chinese whether Cantonese, Fukienese, Mandarin, or any other dialect (which are written the same, and only spoken differently) has 66,000 ideograms and Mongolian has more like 86,000. Then there's Japanese which has at least 3 different methods of writing, one being Kanji.
As a European, I do feel there is a need to do something with this issue. Not to be disrespectful, but I don't think that USA are the best people for the job. Just look at all the problems they have now (packet shaping, net neutrality, etc...). And as a spanish speaker, I feel that it has taken faaar too long to get the "ñ" in domain names. And we only have one funny letter!
SO setup your own DNS.
You only have the "ñ"? I don't know if you have the Umlaut, it's mostly used by Germanic languages, but what about other Diacritic marks or accents?
A bit more seriously, I think that something that has grown as important as this, should be in the hands of the UN, as any strange move can have significant effects worldwide.
Anything as important as the internet shouldn't be in the hands of ANY politician or bureaucrat!
Slashdot Mirror
Am I the only one who thinks that they're in the wrong here?
Ostracism of the guilty is not wrong.
FalconOuting them may prevent similar acts in the future, and it allows the public to choose (lawful) disconnection and ostracism as options. If I had any business interaction with the Drews I'd sever it and make the severance public.
Oh, I agree.
FalconI think that the term you'd be looking for would be 'displacement'.
Thanks, "displacement" may work. Another word I thought of when I read the above was "distort" and I'll try it too.
My house needs to be heated. I'm outside of NG range, so my main choices are electric or propane. Right now propane is substantially cheaper than electric - but with the right setup(like a geothermal heat pump), electric would be cheaper.
I rent now but it's kind of like "rent to own". When the building is transfered to me I plan on converting the heating as well. Right now a boiler in the basement, burning propane, provides heating with only 1 thermostat covering the building. What I want to do is first improve the insulation, my apartment on the first floor can get warm while the apartments above will be cold. Then if feasible I want to use a geothermal heat pump as well. I'll use radiant floor heating and create heating zones for each apartment controlled by thermostats in each apartment. A person would be able to have the bedroom warming up before they hit the sack then lower the temp once they're out the door. The kitchen zone would then warm up before they got up so the floor wasn't cold while cooking. Now, do I really expect people to setup the room like that? No, but they will have the ability.
It'd just take a large capital investment - which isn't worth it at this time.
Yea, I hope I'll be able to save enough after a few years, I want to get a loan for it but still want to make sure I have at least most of the money. I could either take out a second mortgage or an equity line of credit, then roll it into a new mortgage when interest is low.
If it gets bad enough - you see more people driving electric cars because they're cheaper.
I think it was late last year but it of been early this year when I read about a study the "Economist" had that basically said those in the US pay something like 17% of their income on transportation. When oil prices are low they'll drive expensive gas guzzlers but when oil prices are high they drive fuel efficient vehicles.
On to your list of links... I found #4 interesting, because it considers not charging for CO2 emissions a subsidy.
In a way I consider a subsidy myself. Instead of the government giving the money, it's future generations who will have to pay. The Inuit in Nunavut are already paying. And not just for Global Warming, but for industrial pollution as well. Although the Inuit neither make nor consume Polychlorinated biphenyl, known to be highly toxic, their blood as been shown to have high PCB levels. Heck they even have high levels of DDT.
I hate to say it, but I think that they need to stop concentrating on reducing energy usage for a while and concentrate on appliance longevity. Chopping 10% off the electricity usage of an appliance makes sense when it lasts 20 years, but the average today is often less than 10, and for some is as low as 5, on average.
Oh, I'm in total agreement. It seems nobody takes pride in making something that can be handed down to grand and great grand children today. I lost it but about 15 years ago I had the shell of a Zippo lighter with the graving of a Chinese dragon that was made in the 1930's. It was in great shape. Design today is for planned obsolescence. Things should be made to last a long tyme, then easy to recycle. There's a good book partially on this, "Natural Capitalism". It has case studies of how company X improved it's bottom line by cleaning up pollution,
If law enforcement doesn't do their job, you protest about law enforcement, not about someone you suspect of having done something wrong.
So you don't protest against the guilty either then? You don't let other's know when someone harms another?
Falcongiven that, the victim's parents decided to go public, against the advice of their lawyers, for exactly this effect: wide public knowledge and shaming of the perpetrator, and to warn people about what kind of mainpulations can go on
It was bloggers who revealed the responsible person NOT the parents. Or do yo have info that contradicts this?
FalconI find very little credulity in the "You can't hide the truth from us" self-righteousness espoused by many of the bloggers involved in this. They merely saw what they could gain from the situation, not what was ethically or morally right.
Where did you get the info that those who outed this person only saw what they would gain? And what did they gain?
FalconIf there's someone stupid enough to pretend to be a teenage boy in order to grief an emotionally unstable teenage girl, there's someone stupid enough to uncover that person's identity.
It may be wrong but that's exactly what I think, and feel, about this though in previous posts I used "vicious" instead of "stupid".
Falconbloggers aren't exactly known for thoroughly checking out sources or even having a full grasp of the issue.
The same thing can be said of journalists and reports, sometimes it's bloggers who correct reporters.
FalconIn this case, I think that the bloggers in this case ought to feel really badly about having engaged in this sort of shenanigans. At this point, the woman had been reported to the sheriff's office, and there is a possible suit in the future. What they've done is managed to harm everybody involved in this that isn't already dead. Even then, I get the feeling that they would have pissed on her grave if they thought that could make a better story.
I think it's very important to out some one as vicious as this lady was, I'm glad she was outed. If she has a problem being outed then she should have thought about that before acting so vicious.
Falcongiven that, the victim's parents decided to go public, against the advice of their lawyers, for exactly this effect: wide public knowledge and shaming of the perpetrator, and to warn people about what kind of mainpulations can go on
The victim's parents were grieving but they still refused to name the person responsible. It was bloggers and others who found out who the person was and revealed their name, not the parents.
FalconWhether this was a real story or not, that woman did no one any harm; if she did Megan any harm, that's for law enforcement to deal with, not the rest of us.
A day or two ago CNN aired news on this. This 13 year old, Megan Meier, had a page on MySpace and thourgh it she met this "boy" Josh who complimented and fawned over her for more than a month. But then suddenly "Josh" told her she should die. Being upset she tried to talk to her mother but she brushed her off so Megan went upstairs to her room. Later her mother went upstairs and found her hanging in the closet. It ended up Josh was not a teen aged boy but in fact the mother of a girl living in the same neighborhood. Asked by her parents to press charges the police said she committed no crime but to me what she did not much of a different than if she had hanged Megan herself. Having said that I also partially hold her mother responsible, as a parent she should have helped her daughter when she was asked for help.
By digging up her personal information - for which no one had any real, legitimate use - much less posting it online - these bloggers have negligently put this entire family's safety at serious risk.
I think it's very appropriate and legitimate for someone who's vicious to be identified. If the safety of their family is important to them then they should have thought of it before harming someone else. It may only of been psychological and not physical harm but it was still harm, and intentional harm at that.
Yes, information wants to be free blah blah blah - wait until the media puts the unwanted spotlight on you for some minor b.s. (that most of us don't even care to read about) and some Jezebel-esque nutball digs up your personal information - including where you live - and puts it out there for any unbalanced, easily enraged headcase to come dot your forehead with a 9mm shell. Or maybe they'll stalk and kidnap your kid instead.
Oh and this mother didn't do any of this? She did in fact do this, even if the headcase was the girl herself.
FalconAnyone who wants a thin client can keep it but I want something that can stand alone and be used. Reminds me how people used to say there's no need for a computer on the desk, now we're heading that way again.
FalconAt work we've decided not to upgrade to Leopard until Parallels actually works with it and we can buy more RAM. We have labs full of iMacs bought over the summer!
I'm typing this on a MBP that's about 3 months old and I have no plans on installing Leopard even though I have a disk with it Apple sent me. I don't see any compelling reason to right now.
FalconThe problem is his balls are terribly small. Steve is too scared of Microsoft and his own user base to release OSX for all computers. However, most Mac addicts would probby feel great about being ahead of the game if their precious OSX was released to everyone.
While Steve Jobs was gone from Apple Apple did license the Mac OS to clone makers but when Apple brought Jobs back he saw that the company was loosing more from lost hardware sales than Apple made from licenses. So he ended licensing the Mac OS. There's no way he wants to see that again. And yes, compeating directly against MS is a bad idea, MS has already show what it will do to competitors, put them out of business by whatever means necessary.
FalconNT4: Sucks
NT4 is the only MS Windows OS I used that I did not have trouble with.
XP: OK.
The first tyme I used XP I had to hold in the power button until it shutdown then reboot because it froze while booting up the first tyme.
FalconYeah right. You'd have better luck arguing about Iraq being to enrich Bush's contractor buddies. We could have done Iraq very much differently and gotten the oil cheaper, safer, and more reliably if it had truly been about the oil.
As you say, Iraq isn't all about oil. It's also about making defense contractors like Blackwater and all the mercenaries they employee rich too. At the same tyme they avoid any prosecution for human right violations and other crimes. The US has been doing this for years, in Columbia contractors are used to spray herbicides on coca fields, but a lot of it is sprayed on villagers food crops. It would of been cheaper to just let Saddam run Iraq like he did in the 1980s while the Reagan and Bush Sr admins supported him. Back then he was spraying Kurds and March Arabs with chemical weapons, he gassed Iran, and did a bunch of other nasty stuff but the US's support only ended when he invaded Kuwait, a Sheikdom not a democracy.
This is also a false attack in the part that oil is a trivial source of electricity in the USA - Coal is #1, followed by Natural Gas, Nuclear, and hydroelectric. Petrochemical production is 1.6% - Mostly from standby generators.
But what effects one energy sector effects others as well. I don't understand it but someone else shared a link explaining, now I can't find it.
Name an electricity provider that gets 'billions' in subsidies other than solar/wind.
"USA, FEDERAL, Annual. (Multiple fuels). Green Scissors: Cutting Wasteful & Environmentally Harmful Spending. 2004 report. 2003 report. 2002 report. Summaries of wasteful government programs, including many in the energy area." "Subsidies evaluated worth $37 - $64 billion per year to U. S. energy sector."
In the United States, for example, renewables and energy conservation together receive only 5per cent of total federal energy subsidies, according to studies carried out by the Government in 1999."
January 31, 2002
I hope that's enough for you.
FalconI have been called a lot of things in my times on this site but that is a new one. Thanks! I shall add it to my list.
I don't know if you are one or not, if you are and took it that way and are happy good for you. People should use what they like and what works for them. After using MS Windows for 10 years I finally got frustrated enough to switch.
FalconI don't think that Linux and Mac OS X are in direct concurrence. Simply because Mac owners will most of the time prefer Mac OS X, and that PC owners will rather move to Linux.
When I switched from Windows I got a PC with Linux preinstalled I'll set up as a server and for a laptop I got the Macbook Pro I'm typing this on.
FalconThat "spectacular failure" is selling about 300,000 copies per day.
How many of those copies are on brand new PC versus plain copies of Vista off a store shelf? Then can a person get a PC with XP installed instead or do they have to jump through hoops to install XP? This one I can answer, PC OEMs are shipping new PCs with XP after customers demanded it.
FalconThen there is the fact they will not play fair in the markets using exclusive contracts to lock out competitors. ( can you buy Linux on a store shelf now?)
Yes you can grab Linux off a store shelf to buy, at least I can. I even bought a PC with Linux preinstalled. MS, where competition is looked at as bad, has played unfairly but Linux is available in stores.
FalconSame can be said about anyone who believes their opinion to have some influence on reality. Which is about 95-97% of the users here.
Yea, that's true enough. While I like Macs, OS X, and Linux I've used mostly Windows. Unfortunately my favorite OS hasn't been kept current for many years, the OS I've used that I liked the most was the Amiga OS.
FalconWhat is so bad about Vista when running on modern hardware?
Activaton, WGA and Spyware. Because of these three items MS insisted on I have switched from Windows to Linux for a server and OS X on the MacBook Pro I'm typing this on. I don't like it when a company treats me like a criminal when I buy a product from them!!!
FalconMost Vista haters on this site have a lot in common with Young Earth Creationists.
Pretty much can be said about MS Fanbous.
FalconThats exactly why this can't be given to an international political body. They will just turn it into an unusable mess. I'm a Greek speaker, should Greek letters and accents be in domain names?
Greek is easier than Chinese, Chinese whether Cantonese, Fukienese, Mandarin, or any other dialect (which are written the same, and only spoken differently) has 66,000 ideograms and Mongolian has more like 86,000. Then there's Japanese which has at least 3 different methods of writing, one being Kanji.
FalconAs a European, I do feel there is a need to do something with this issue. Not to be disrespectful, but I don't think that USA are the best people for the job. Just look at all the problems they have now (packet shaping, net neutrality, etc...). And as a spanish speaker, I feel that it has taken faaar too long to get the "ñ" in domain names. And we only have one funny letter!
SO setup your own DNS.
You only have the "ñ"? I don't know if you have the Umlaut, it's mostly used by Germanic languages, but what about other Diacritic marks or accents?
A bit more seriously, I think that something that has grown as important as this, should be in the hands of the UN, as any strange move can have significant effects worldwide.
Anything as important as the internet shouldn't be in the hands of ANY politician or bureaucrat!
Falcon