The presidents impact on the economy is pretty small, the reason that
clinton's time saw a surplus was because of a Tech boom.
This argument doesn't work. The tech boom is from the 1970s when homebrewers started creating homebrew microcomputers such as the Apple and the IMSAI 8080. It really picked up when IBM released the IBM PC, then when Amiga Corporation released the Amiga and Apple released the Mac. The internet? It's the beget of Milnet which in 1983 split off of Arpanet. And Arpanet started in 1966.
Most VoIP suffered from latency issues, and other problems.
What does VoIP have to do with the boom? The tech boom was going along great before VoIP came on the scene.
The internet is still kicking, but US broadband has fallen to 16th worldwide.
Oh, I most emphatically agree. The telco incumbents are holding not just broadband but wireless braodband back. As a first step I support Google's push to have the 700mh airwaves opened. However I'd rather have the FCC abolished. The FCC was created from the Federal Radio Commission in 1934 with the passage of the Communications Act of 1934. Both were created in a period of scarcity of airwaves, however since today there is no real scarcity the FCC is not needed.
I credit the Tech Boom
I agree but the tech boom started earlier than you give credit for, see above. Clinton's as well as Newt Gingrich's fiscal policies also helped.
In theory the one child per couple policy in China has been going on long enough that those children are marrying and each of those couples will be expected to look after 4 parents in later life. Worse still the couple's single child will marry and have 4 parents and 8 grandparents to worry about eventually.
I think the really big problem China will find is that because of the 1 child per family rule, they will find that there are a lot more men than women shortly. That is if they haven't already noticed. This is because for most, men at least, if they can only have one child they want a boy so they'll kill girl babies. Though I disagree with having any such law, if the Chinese wanted to reduce population pressure then what they could of done would of been to allow one boy and one girl per family. Because to maintain a stable population a birthrate of something like 2.1 or 2.6 (I've heard both) babies for each female, allowing two children would still reduce population, abet slowly.
Linspire is neither free nor open source, which kind of defeats the point.
When you pay for Linspire you pay for support and for some of the codecs and other software. While Linspire does include some commercial software there's also Freespire.
As a guy who knows what he's doing, I like taking a vanilla Kubuntu, stripping out the parts I don't like, adding the stuff I know is good (Medibuntu, nvidia-glx-new, the WineHQ repositories), and ending up with my own system.
At first I was thinking of installing Ubuntu once I got my Macbook Pro, however now that I have it I'm wonder what good installing it would serve. I installed X11 as well as Fink so I can download, install, and run X software. Other than learning Ubuntu, I know of nothing I could do with Ubuntu I can't do currently on my MBP. I can use the terminal to learn at least some basic commands. And while I can install either or both WINE and CrossOver, I don't know of any Windows software I know I want to use. Maybe XMLSpy which I've used and like on Windows however I first want to tryout <oXygen> XML Editor
The population has leveled off in China because the dictatorship there has decreed that couples may only have one child each. It has little to do with the economy there 'booming.' The booming economy may, however, be a result of the 'one child' dictate. That's one of the benefits of the 'one child' policy that the government explicitly cites.
While China's one child per family has had an affect, the booming economy also has a part in reducing the reproductive rate. India has no such law mandating only one child per family yet their population has leveled off as well. In both cases the economy has had a big impact. And in the west, the developed nations of North America and Europe, if it weren't for immigrants their populations would be falling:
"Developed countries usually have a much lower fertility rate due to greater wealth and their individualistic culture. Mortality rates are low, birth control is easily accessible, and human beings are often deemed (by other human beings) as nothing but an economic drain, specially when they cannot produce income: because of education costs, clothing and feeding. Longer periods of time spent getting higher education often mean young people have children later in life. The result is the demographic-economic paradox."
"In Mexico and India, for instance, rates have fallen, respectively, from 6.7 and 6 children per woman in 1950 to 2.2 and 3.1 today. Of course, fertility in the most advanced nations (in terms of wealth) such as in Europe and Japan is now below the replacement rate of 2.1 children per woman. The spread of wealth, education and urban living contributes to lower fertility almost everywhere."
No one would ever deploy an off-grid (i.e. battery backed) system and expect it to make financial or other sense. The only reason to deploy such a system is if you have no way to connect your site to the grid.
You're partially but not compleatly right. It can cost a builder tens of thousands of dollars to have the power company a couple of thousand feet:
"In nearby Marlboro, Sunny and Nat Tappan live in an older-style off-grid home, about 2 1/2 miles up a hill off a dirt road on an isolated 90-acre tract. The rustic, timber-frame house, which sits next to a pasture with sheep and chickens, has a composting toilet and no running water (they have a well). Sunny and her former husband bought the property 18 years ago and spent a few thousand dollars on a solar power system. Connecting to the power grid would have cost $80,000, but Sunny, 53, had no interest anyway."
If I generate more than I use, then they don't send me a check, they just say, "Thanks for the free electricity." If I overproduce, it means I goofed big-time, because I spent more money than I needed to on my system
Do you do net metering or do you do guerrilla solar? I ask because with net metering you're paid less for power you put into the system than what you pay for power you use that's theirs. But you're right, if you produce more than you use then you're providing them with free power.
PVs can last 20 years or more. NASA has used PVs to power satellites that have lasted longer than 20 years.
b)How fragile are they
PVs can be made pretty durable. Panels can be made to withstand hail.
c)What temperature ranges can they survive
I don't know what the temperature range is but PVs have been used in the Arctic and Antarctic. PVs also withstand the Sahara and Sahel deserts. Of course sand storms diminish their effectiveness. However a Plexiglas casing can protect the PVs.
Debt is our biggest issue. In particular, federal debt. reagan and W. have hurt america badly. For all the gripes about clinton (and poppa bush), I think that they were a lot closer to where we needed to be.
Yea supposedly small government types create a balloon a large national debt whereas a big government neoliberal almost wipes out the national debt as well as created the largest surplus. The US went from the largest national surplus, under a Democrat, to the largest national debt, under a Republican, within 8 years.
1.6kW is a measure of power, not energy. You probably meant that 1 square metre receives 1.6kW hours of energy in an hour, which would give 160W hours per hour per square meter, or in power terms, 160W/m^2. That is, about the same power as would be necessary to power 3 strong light bulbs.
You mean energy inefficient incandescent lights maybe. 160 WH, watt hours, would power both of my 15 watt bulbs more than 5 hours.
No, really, in the vast majority of cases your money is better spent on insulating your house.
AGREED!!! Bigtime!!! Those who build off the grid first increase insulation to reduce the amount of energy used for heating and cooling. Since building in the US use about 50% of the energy used in the US just cutting energy used by building in half reduces energy needs by 25%.
Where do you think all the radioactive material the reactors are fueled by comes from? certainly isn't shipped in from outer space.
I bet you know where it comes from, that you're just trolling. It's mined then the ore is refined. Once refined it's nowhere near being in a natural state and is much more purified.
You're the second person to talk about Deep Cycle batteries but seemingly only read the name. If you follow even the wikipedia link you will find it saying they can be discharged up to 80% for several cycles, but the reality is you don't want to routinely discharge them that deep. They will deliver far more watt hours discharged to only 50% or less.
"Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates."
As for the payback period (not sure why a link to wikipedia here)
The link to the wiki article wasn't about the payback period. If you had read it you would have seen it was about ROI, Return on Invest, which is what the text for the link was. Not everyone knows what ROI is and for those who don't I included a link to a wiki article explaining what it is.
even grid-tie solar panel systems never pay for themselves
I said nothing about grid tied systems in the post you replied to, but I did specifically mention about "off the grid" systems. Most of those who do build off the grid install a solar, wind, or hybrid system specifically because it does cost less. To have the power company install cabling just a few thousand feet can cost more than $10,000. You either pay that plus a months power bill or you use the money to buy and build a solar system then you're free of having to pay until it or parts of it are replaced. All it requires is a little maintenance.
"Since the house is about 1,200 ft from the Arizona Public Service grid, it qualified for utility service, although connection would have cost about $5,700."
"Sunny and her former husband bought the property 18 years ago and spent a few thousand dollars on a solar power system. Connecting to the power grid would have cost $80,000, but Sunny, 53, had no interest anyway."
From the link:
"a deep-cycle battery is designed to discharge down to as much as 80% of its charge capacity"
80% is not "almost completely".
I may be wrong but I think that it should be it can be discharged up to 80%, in other words until it only hold 20% of it's charge. I think this page does it better:
Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates.
if you actually had any experience with deep cycle batteries, you'd know that discharging past 50% drastically reduces the lifespan
which means the pannels would have to last at least 34 years to recoup the cost invested in installing a solar system.
You may want to readjust your figures. The last numbers I saw on ROI, Return Of Investment, showed the payback period was 7 years. In other words it took 7 years to pay for a properly designed solar system in a sunny location. With typical components having at least a 10 year warranty that means that after 7 years you get three years of "free" energy. Of course that's for a good system in a good place.
this is why companies like excell energy are turing to wind turbines to meet the 20% renewable energy production mandate minnesota has put them under by 2020.. wind turbines are ALREADY produced around the COST per kwh of coal fired plants. (theyre sold for more obviously though)
Those wind gennies get government subsidies as well, not as much as others but some. Yea, Minnesota produce several megawatts of wind power, as does both of the Dakotas, and they can all produce more. I read of a USGS survey that concluded the Rocky Mountains have enough potential wind power to supply all of the electrical needs of the US.
it's entirely possible, even believing the worst-case warming trends, that it may actually save lives (because of fewer cold-related deaths) and make things better overall.
At the least what you'd be doing is exchanging deaths from the cold to heat deaths. However you're actually doing much more, higher temperatures allow disease and virus vectors to travel farther. Take malaria, carried by mosquitoes they don't go too far north or too high in altitude because of the cold. However rising temps allow mosquitoes to go further north and higher in altitude thus spreading malaria further. Then there are other problems as well, for instance science studies have shown that Poison Ivy grows faster and becomes more potent with higher CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere. Or take freshwater, many people depend on seasonal melting of glaciers for fresh water supplies. Normally during winter rain and snowfall would replenish the glacier, however as it warms while the ice melts faster and faster, there's less rain and snow to replenish the water source. This is becoming a problem in Africa as Mount Kilimanjaro's Glacier Is Crumbling. Countries in the Andes of South America are starting to experience the same problems. Bolivia gets a lot of water from glaciers. And in Peru one of the major cities, I don't recall which one right now, gets almost if not all of it's fresh water from a glacier. When those glaciers are gone there goes fresh water supplies for hundreds of millions of not billions of people. Heck melting glacier in the Himalayas threatens to wipeout entire villages.
Most investment advisers will suggest that you put most of your investment money in stocks, but some in bonds.
Actually it greatly depends on the age of the investor and their plans. Someone in their 20s and 30s should most definitely have the bulk of their investments in stocks, aggressive growth for someone in their 20s and growth in their later 30s, for instance. However as they age and get closer to retirement their portfolio should shift from growth to income.
AC is usually not in the cards if you are trying to achieve energy independence.
AC isn't needed much if at all in a properly designed and constructed building. Neither is heat.
Though I now live in Minnesota, which shares a border with Canada, I used to live in Florida and the last year I lived there I never used AC, or heating. Well, I'd turn on AC for a few hours once or twice a week to try to prevent mold buildup in the ducts because of humidity.
for proper operation you don't want to discharge the batteries too deep
That's what Deep Cycle batteries are for. They are made to almost compleatly discharge before recharging.
You can try to live greener (more efficient appliances etc.) and that's almost a must off-grid, but the off grid electricity itself is very expensive.
Today the payback period for a properly designed system can be as low as 7 years, ie it takes 7 years to pay for the system. Since most hardware components are warrantied for at least 10 years, that leaves 3 years of free energy. And because off the grid systems save the owners from paying an electrical bill more and more Green lenders are offering higher mortgages to pay for off the grid systems.
I've always been a Renewable Energy geek, but if I could have got an affordable AC mains connection to my site, I would have one. As much as I love playing with windgens and solar setups, with a wife and two kids now, I simply don't have as much free time on my hands as I used to.
I too have been into renewables for years, however even though I live in a major city, downtown Minneapolis is less than a 20 minute bike ride for me, after I buy the building of apartments I live in and save money I plan on remodeling the building to be more energy efficient and would like add some PV panels. Eventually I want to build a home off the grid, someplace that the closest powerlines are miles away.
How old are your children? If they are old enough maybe you can show them how the system works. Then after a few years, or more if they're too young, they could apprentice under an installer in the area. If they wanted to major in Electrical/Electronic Engineering in college this could be valuable experience. Turn something that seems like a negative and turn it into a positive.
You do realise that he was right? The green revolution along with declining birth rates in the western world has ensured that we have enough food - but starvation is a reality elsewhere.
That's the thing about many, I won't say all because I consider myself one, environmentalists don't and won't consider, as people improve their economics they have fewer children. Up until recently the countries with the highest population growth were China and India. However now that their economies are booming their population are leveling off. A concern in China is that in a generation or two there won't be enough working adults paying for an aged population. Whereas now there's something like up to 10 people working for every retired person then there will be only 3 workers. Where population growth is now a concern is in Africa which due to conflicts and politics is doing poor economically.
So the whole operation needs to run undegraded for 4 to 4.5 years I estimate for break even.
The current payback period is about 7 years now, with batteries. Even a reduction to 5 years would have a considerable effect. Thing is is pretty much a lot of hardware is rated for 10 years or more. If you continue using the equipment for the full 10 years you're basically getting free power for three years. However by upgrading after 7 years you're getting better efficiency. What could be done then is to add to the system. Say add more PVs then an inverter.
It is called "run of the river" hydro. It generally produces a lot less electricity than a traditional dam, but it has a much smaller environmental foot print.
Thanks for the information. Looking at the cons it seems long term storage needs to be developed for it.
And what would the price point be to eliminate lost sales of hardware? $500? $1000?
Well, do the math yourself, instead of pulling numbers out of your ass.
Because I don't have or know the numbers I could run them, however I did include some number do to the math. Maybe you didn't read what I said but I did say "If OS X is licensed at a high price what OEM would license it? With a starting price of $2500 for a Mac Pro if a license were sold for $250 10 clones would need to be sold to make up for the lost sale of 1 Mac Pro, actually it would be more like 8 or 9 because of the saving in the cost of the hardware."
Because when clones start crashing Apple will start to look bad, "Macs aren't any more stable than Windows PCs".
No, because they would be PCs. Thus, Apple would still have a reputation for making very good hardware -- hardware that OS X runs best on
Just as PCs of whatever brand are still PCs, a Mac clone of whatever make is still a Mac clone. I still recall people blaming IBM for using the S100 bus when everyone else was too.
At the very least, they should be setting up video drivers. For that matter, they should be licensing some of the legal Linux versions of various codecs...
I though Ubuntu included legal codecs, however even if they don't they could still use Linspire which does have legal codecs. Actually here's a paragraph on what someone thinks Linspire should do:
"Published: Tuesday, September 11 2007 @ 8:07 PM CDT"
Contributed by: Tommy
"You have an opportunity here to keep to Linspire's original goal here, Larry. Make CNR the pivot factor that brings restricted codecs and software to Linux in an elective format through CNR. Purists will be appeased, since the distro itself is left alone by default and casual users will have the choice to expand on their Linux installation the way they see fit with CNR at the controls."
I'd be curious to know if an OEM has gotten this right, but I kind of doubt it. Most I've seen go to the other extreme -- they practically build their own distro, and everything still doesn't work out of the box.
The Linux PC I got used Linspire and included all the drivers needed to run out of the box. The PC was designed to run Linspire. Unfortunately the OEM dropped Linux from the lineup. But you're right, besides OEMs installing Linux they need to make sure it works right. Maybe I don't look at it like OEMs but the way I look at it is that if you're going to do something get it right if you're going to sale it, at least put some effort into it instead of slapping things together. And make it user friendly.
No, you'd have to set minimum prices and what not, and run an auction.
So that the poor are left out of any invests?
The Treasury does this every month is it for issuing debt, so I don't see a reason why this can't work for something more physical.
T bills and bonds are guaranteed by the full faith of the federal government, whatever that means (joking here).
I'm not sure if the FCC spectrum model is a good model to follow.
I agree 1000%. I'd abolish the FCC and allow whoever wanted to to use the airwaves. The most I'd do is have a few regulations to prevent the interference of communications, especially for emergencies such as fire and law enforcement. Maybe certain frequencies can be set aside for this.
t is easy to be critical and not actually try to be part of the solution. Does your house have the most efficient heat and air conditioning?
Right now I don't own a home, I rent. While the whole building is heated from one gas unit, there is no air conditioning. Why I don't own it now the plan is that I will buy the building, which contains 4 apartments. Currently my sister owns the apartment building, because I'm on disability and don't work I wouldn't qualify for a mortgage to buy it. However once there is enough equity in it it will be transfered to me and I will take over the mortgage. Once I do I plan to save as much money as I can for a few years then hire an architect to create a better design. Reusing as much of the material as I can I'll gut out the interior and rebuild the interior adding more insulation ceiling fans for air circulation and radiant floor heating each unit can control themselves.
Prior to my disability I was roughly designing the home I wanted to build, being that I wanted to build it Off the Grid I was designing it to be as energy efficient as possible, then it would of been powered by a hybrid system using PVs and a wind genie, generator, with a battery bank to store the energy.
Are you driving a vehicle that gets 50+ MPG?
No, my car only gets about 30 mpg city. However I drive it less than 5,000 miles a year, I got it new in 2000 and I haven't yet put 40,000 miles on it. I'd love to have gotten a better mileage vehicle, such as a hybrid, however being on disability I couldn't afford it. Even when I attended college and worked though, I still rode my bike most of the tyme. Though I had a car, I rode my bike more than 200 miles a week. Actually that's how I ended up with my disability, while riding my bike I was hit by a moving van, the apartment movers sort, and I was not expected to survive. While in a coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if I lived. Instead I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, and my life has been a living hell since.
Your comments stating,"Yea, because energy users never actually see how much the energy they use costs." is a little ambiguous. Do you pay an electric bill?
Yes, I pay an electric bill. And nowhere on it do I see anything about paying for the pollution my use causes to be released. Frequently though the power company does include pamphlets on what they're doing about it, or tips on conserving energy. Actually my power company gets a lot of it's electricity from wind genies, the state I live in is Minnesota and it generates several megawatts of wind power. And it can be ramped up to produce more, which helps farmers as they get paid for the property rental the towers use.
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The presidents impact on the economy is pretty small, the reason that clinton's time saw a surplus was because of a Tech boom.
This argument doesn't work. The tech boom is from the 1970s when homebrewers started creating homebrew microcomputers such as the Apple and the IMSAI 8080. It really picked up when IBM released the IBM PC, then when Amiga Corporation released the Amiga and Apple released the Mac. The internet? It's the beget of Milnet which in 1983 split off of Arpanet. And Arpanet started in 1966.
Most VoIP suffered from latency issues, and other problems.
What does VoIP have to do with the boom? The tech boom was going along great before VoIP came on the scene.
The internet is still kicking, but US broadband has fallen to 16th worldwide.
Oh, I most emphatically agree. The telco incumbents are holding not just broadband but wireless braodband back. As a first step I support Google's push to have the 700mh airwaves opened. However I'd rather have the FCC abolished. The FCC was created from the Federal Radio Commission in 1934 with the passage of the Communications Act of 1934. Both were created in a period of scarcity of airwaves, however since today there is no real scarcity the FCC is not needed.
I credit the Tech Boom
I agree but the tech boom started earlier than you give credit for, see above. Clinton's as well as Newt Gingrich's fiscal policies also helped.
FalconIn theory the one child per couple policy in China has been going on long enough that those children are marrying and each of those couples will be expected to look after 4 parents in later life. Worse still the couple's single child will marry and have 4 parents and 8 grandparents to worry about eventually.
I think the really big problem China will find is that because of the 1 child per family rule, they will find that there are a lot more men than women shortly. That is if they haven't already noticed. This is because for most, men at least, if they can only have one child they want a boy so they'll kill girl babies. Though I disagree with having any such law, if the Chinese wanted to reduce population pressure then what they could of done would of been to allow one boy and one girl per family. Because to maintain a stable population a birthrate of something like 2.1 or 2.6 (I've heard both) babies for each female, allowing two children would still reduce population, abet slowly.
FalconLinspire is neither free nor open source, which kind of defeats the point.
When you pay for Linspire you pay for support and for some of the codecs and other software. While Linspire does include some commercial software there's also Freespire.
As a guy who knows what he's doing, I like taking a vanilla Kubuntu, stripping out the parts I don't like, adding the stuff I know is good (Medibuntu, nvidia-glx-new, the WineHQ repositories), and ending up with my own system.
At first I was thinking of installing Ubuntu once I got my Macbook Pro, however now that I have it I'm wonder what good installing it would serve. I installed X11 as well as Fink so I can download, install, and run X software. Other than learning Ubuntu, I know of nothing I could do with Ubuntu I can't do currently on my MBP. I can use the terminal to learn at least some basic commands. And while I can install either or both WINE and CrossOver, I don't know of any Windows software I know I want to use. Maybe XMLSpy which I've used and like on Windows however I first want to tryout <oXygen> XML Editor
FalconThe population has leveled off in China because the dictatorship there has decreed that couples may only have one child each. It has little to do with the economy there 'booming.' The booming economy may, however, be a result of the 'one child' dictate. That's one of the benefits of the 'one child' policy that the government explicitly cites.
While China's one child per family has had an affect, the booming economy also has a part in reducing the reproductive rate. India has no such law mandating only one child per family yet their population has leveled off as well. In both cases the economy has had a big impact. And in the west, the developed nations of North America and Europe, if it weren't for immigrants their populations would be falling:
"Developed countries usually have a much lower fertility rate due to greater wealth and their individualistic culture. Mortality rates are low, birth control is easily accessible, and human beings are often deemed (by other human beings) as nothing but an economic drain, specially when they cannot produce income: because of education costs, clothing and feeding. Longer periods of time spent getting higher education often mean young people have children later in life. The result is the demographic-economic paradox."
In case you don't accept the wiki article, which was the first result from Google of "population 'replacement rate' economy", here's more:
"In Mexico and India, for instance, rates have fallen, respectively, from 6.7 and 6 children per woman in 1950 to 2.2 and 3.1 today. Of course, fertility in the most advanced nations (in terms of wealth) such as in Europe and Japan is now below the replacement rate of 2.1 children per woman. The spread of wealth, education and urban living contributes to lower fertility almost everywhere."
FalconNo one would ever deploy an off-grid (i.e. battery backed) system and expect it to make financial or other sense. The only reason to deploy such a system is if you have no way to connect your site to the grid.
You're partially but not compleatly right. It can cost a builder tens of thousands of dollars to have the power company a couple of thousand feet:
"In nearby Marlboro, Sunny and Nat Tappan live in an older-style off-grid home, about 2 1/2 miles up a hill off a dirt road on an isolated 90-acre tract. The rustic, timber-frame house, which sits next to a pasture with sheep and chickens, has a composting toilet and no running water (they have a well). Sunny and her former husband bought the property 18 years ago and spent a few thousand dollars on a solar power system. Connecting to the power grid would have cost $80,000, but Sunny, 53, had no interest anyway."
FalconIf I generate more than I use, then they don't send me a check, they just say, "Thanks for the free electricity." If I overproduce, it means I goofed big-time, because I spent more money than I needed to on my system
Do you do net metering or do you do guerrilla solar? I ask because with net metering you're paid less for power you put into the system than what you pay for power you use that's theirs. But you're right, if you produce more than you use then you're providing them with free power.
Falcona)How long do they last
PVs can last 20 years or more. NASA has used PVs to power satellites that have lasted longer than 20 years.
b)How fragile are they
PVs can be made pretty durable. Panels can be made to withstand hail.
c)What temperature ranges can they survive
I don't know what the temperature range is but PVs have been used in the Arctic and Antarctic. PVs also withstand the Sahara and Sahel deserts. Of course sand storms diminish their effectiveness. However a Plexiglas casing can protect the PVs.
The others I don't know about.
FalconWell, 1 kilowatt for an hour costs me 25 cents (thereabouts).
WOW! Counting all of the fees and taxes, I pay less than 12 cents per Watt Hour.
Even so when I remodel the building I still want to install PVs.
FalconDebt is our biggest issue. In particular, federal debt. reagan and W. have hurt america badly. For all the gripes about clinton (and poppa bush), I think that they were a lot closer to where we needed to be.
Yea supposedly small government types create a balloon a large national debt whereas a big government neoliberal almost wipes out the national debt as well as created the largest surplus. The US went from the largest national surplus, under a Democrat, to the largest national debt, under a Republican, within 8 years.
Falcon1.6kW is a measure of power, not energy. You probably meant that 1 square metre receives 1.6kW hours of energy in an hour, which would give 160W hours per hour per square meter, or in power terms, 160W/m^2. That is, about the same power as would be necessary to power 3 strong light bulbs.
You mean energy inefficient incandescent lights maybe. 160 WH, watt hours, would power both of my 15 watt bulbs more than 5 hours.
No, really, in the vast majority of cases your money is better spent on insulating your house.
AGREED!!! Bigtime!!! Those who build off the grid first increase insulation to reduce the amount of energy used for heating and cooling. Since building in the US use about 50% of the energy used in the US just cutting energy used by building in half reduces energy needs by 25%.
FalconWhere do you think all the radioactive material the reactors are fueled by comes from? certainly isn't shipped in from outer space.
I bet you know where it comes from, that you're just trolling. It's mined then the ore is refined. Once refined it's nowhere near being in a natural state and is much more purified.
FalconYou're the second person to talk about Deep Cycle batteries but seemingly only read the name. If you follow even the wikipedia link you will find it saying they can be discharged up to 80% for several cycles, but the reality is you don't want to routinely discharge them that deep. They will deliver far more watt hours discharged to only 50% or less.
"Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates."
As for the payback period (not sure why a link to wikipedia here)
The link to the wiki article wasn't about the payback period. If you had read it you would have seen it was about ROI, Return on Invest, which is what the text for the link was. Not everyone knows what ROI is and for those who don't I included a link to a wiki article explaining what it is.
even grid-tie solar panel systems never pay for themselves
I said nothing about grid tied systems in the post you replied to, but I did specifically mention about "off the grid" systems. Most of those who do build off the grid install a solar, wind, or hybrid system specifically because it does cost less. To have the power company install cabling just a few thousand feet can cost more than $10,000. You either pay that plus a months power bill or you use the money to buy and build a solar system then you're free of having to pay until it or parts of it are replaced. All it requires is a little maintenance.
"Since the house is about 1,200 ft from the Arizona Public Service grid, it qualified for utility service, although connection would have cost about $5,700."
"Sunny and her former husband bought the property 18 years ago and spent a few thousand dollars on a solar power system. Connecting to the power grid would have cost $80,000, but Sunny, 53, had no interest anyway."
FalconFrom the link:
"a deep-cycle battery is designed to discharge down to as much as 80% of its charge capacity"
80% is not "almost completely".
I may be wrong but I think that it should be it can be discharged up to 80%, in other words until it only hold 20% of it's charge. I think this page does it better:
Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates.
if you actually had any experience with deep cycle batteries, you'd know that discharging past 50% drastically reduces the lifespan
"A good quality deep cycle lead acid battery will cost between $50 and $200 and, if properly maintained, will give you at least 150 deep discharge cycles."
"All the articles I read on battery usage recommended that lead-acid batteries not be discharged to a point where less than 20% of capacity remains."
Falconwhich means the pannels would have to last at least 34 years to recoup the cost invested in installing a solar system.
You may want to readjust your figures. The last numbers I saw on ROI, Return Of Investment, showed the payback period was 7 years. In other words it took 7 years to pay for a properly designed solar system in a sunny location. With typical components having at least a 10 year warranty that means that after 7 years you get three years of "free" energy. Of course that's for a good system in a good place.
this is why companies like excell energy are turing to wind turbines to meet the 20% renewable energy production mandate minnesota has put them under by 2020.. wind turbines are ALREADY produced around the COST per kwh of coal fired plants. (theyre sold for more obviously though)
Those wind gennies get government subsidies as well, not as much as others but some. Yea, Minnesota produce several megawatts of wind power, as does both of the Dakotas, and they can all produce more. I read of a USGS survey that concluded the Rocky Mountains have enough potential wind power to supply all of the electrical needs of the US.
Falconit's entirely possible, even believing the worst-case warming trends, that it may actually save lives (because of fewer cold-related deaths) and make things better overall.
At the least what you'd be doing is exchanging deaths from the cold to heat deaths. However you're actually doing much more, higher temperatures allow disease and virus vectors to travel farther. Take malaria, carried by mosquitoes they don't go too far north or too high in altitude because of the cold. However rising temps allow mosquitoes to go further north and higher in altitude thus spreading malaria further. Then there are other problems as well, for instance science studies have shown that Poison Ivy grows faster and becomes more potent with higher CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere. Or take freshwater, many people depend on seasonal melting of glaciers for fresh water supplies. Normally during winter rain and snowfall would replenish the glacier, however as it warms while the ice melts faster and faster, there's less rain and snow to replenish the water source. This is becoming a problem in Africa as Mount Kilimanjaro's Glacier Is Crumbling. Countries in the Andes of South America are starting to experience the same problems. Bolivia gets a lot of water from glaciers. And in Peru one of the major cities, I don't recall which one right now, gets almost if not all of it's fresh water from a glacier. When those glaciers are gone there goes fresh water supplies for hundreds of millions of not billions of people. Heck melting glacier in the Himalayas threatens to wipeout entire villages.
FalconMost investment advisers will suggest that you put most of your investment money in stocks, but some in bonds.
Actually it greatly depends on the age of the investor and their plans. Someone in their 20s and 30s should most definitely have the bulk of their investments in stocks, aggressive growth for someone in their 20s and growth in their later 30s, for instance. However as they age and get closer to retirement their portfolio should shift from growth to income.
No, I'm not one myself but my brother-in-law is a Certified Financial Planner, CFP.
FalconAC is usually not in the cards if you are trying to achieve energy independence.
AC isn't needed much if at all in a properly designed and constructed building. Neither is heat.
Though I now live in Minnesota, which shares a border with Canada, I used to live in Florida and the last year I lived there I never used AC, or heating. Well, I'd turn on AC for a few hours once or twice a week to try to prevent mold buildup in the ducts because of humidity.
for proper operation you don't want to discharge the batteries too deep
That's what Deep Cycle batteries are for. They are made to almost compleatly discharge before recharging.
You can try to live greener (more efficient appliances etc.) and that's almost a must off-grid, but the off grid electricity itself is very expensive.
Today the payback period for a properly designed system can be as low as 7 years, ie it takes 7 years to pay for the system. Since most hardware components are warrantied for at least 10 years, that leaves 3 years of free energy. And because off the grid systems save the owners from paying an electrical bill more and more Green lenders are offering higher mortgages to pay for off the grid systems.
FalconI've always been a Renewable Energy geek, but if I could have got an affordable AC mains connection to my site, I would have one. As much as I love playing with windgens and solar setups, with a wife and two kids now, I simply don't have as much free time on my hands as I used to.
I too have been into renewables for years, however even though I live in a major city, downtown Minneapolis is less than a 20 minute bike ride for me, after I buy the building of apartments I live in and save money I plan on remodeling the building to be more energy efficient and would like add some PV panels. Eventually I want to build a home off the grid, someplace that the closest powerlines are miles away.
How old are your children? If they are old enough maybe you can show them how the system works. Then after a few years, or more if they're too young, they could apprentice under an installer in the area. If they wanted to major in Electrical/Electronic Engineering in college this could be valuable experience. Turn something that seems like a negative and turn it into a positive.
You do realise that he was right? The green revolution along with declining birth rates in the western world has ensured that we have enough food - but starvation is a reality elsewhere.
That's the thing about many, I won't say all because I consider myself one, environmentalists don't and won't consider, as people improve their economics they have fewer children. Up until recently the countries with the highest population growth were China and India. However now that their economies are booming their population are leveling off. A concern in China is that in a generation or two there won't be enough working adults paying for an aged population. Whereas now there's something like up to 10 people working for every retired person then there will be only 3 workers. Where population growth is now a concern is in Africa which due to conflicts and politics is doing poor economically.
FalconSo the whole operation needs to run undegraded for 4 to 4.5 years I estimate for break even.
The current payback period is about 7 years now, with batteries. Even a reduction to 5 years would have a considerable effect. Thing is is pretty much a lot of hardware is rated for 10 years or more. If you continue using the equipment for the full 10 years you're basically getting free power for three years. However by upgrading after 7 years you're getting better efficiency. What could be done then is to add to the system. Say add more PVs then an inverter.
FalconIt is called "run of the river" hydro. It generally produces a lot less electricity than a traditional dam, but it has a much smaller environmental foot print.
Thanks for the information. Looking at the cons it seems long term storage needs to be developed for it.
FalconAnd what would the price point be to eliminate lost sales of hardware? $500? $1000?
Well, do the math yourself, instead of pulling numbers out of your ass.
Because I don't have or know the numbers I could run them, however I did include some number do to the math. Maybe you didn't read what I said but I did say "If OS X is licensed at a high price what OEM would license it? With a starting price of $2500 for a Mac Pro if a license were sold for $250 10 clones would need to be sold to make up for the lost sale of 1 Mac Pro, actually it would be more like 8 or 9 because of the saving in the cost of the hardware."
Because when clones start crashing Apple will start to look bad, "Macs aren't any more stable than Windows PCs".
No, because they would be PCs. Thus, Apple would still have a reputation for making very good hardware -- hardware that OS X runs best on
Just as PCs of whatever brand are still PCs, a Mac clone of whatever make is still a Mac clone. I still recall people blaming IBM for using the S100 bus when everyone else was too.
At the very least, they should be setting up video drivers. For that matter, they should be licensing some of the legal Linux versions of various codecs...
I though Ubuntu included legal codecs, however even if they don't they could still use Linspire which does have legal codecs. Actually here's a paragraph on what someone thinks Linspire should do:
Linspire Needs to Drop OS, Focus Exclusively On CNR"
"Published: Tuesday, September 11 2007 @ 8:07 PM CDT"
Contributed by: Tommy
"You have an opportunity here to keep to Linspire's original goal here, Larry. Make CNR the pivot factor that brings restricted codecs and software to Linux in an elective format through CNR. Purists will be appeased, since the distro itself is left alone by default and casual users will have the choice to expand on their Linux installation the way they see fit with CNR at the controls."
I'd be curious to know if an OEM has gotten this right, but I kind of doubt it. Most I've seen go to the other extreme -- they practically build their own distro, and everything still doesn't work out of the box.
The Linux PC I got used Linspire and included all the drivers needed to run out of the box. The PC was designed to run Linspire. Unfortunately the OEM dropped Linux from the lineup. But you're right, besides OEMs installing Linux they need to make sure it works right. Maybe I don't look at it like OEMs but the way I look at it is that if you're going to do something get it right if you're going to sale it, at least put some effort into it instead of slapping things together. And make it user friendly.
FalconNo, you'd have to set minimum prices and what not, and run an auction.
So that the poor are left out of any invests?
The Treasury does this every month is it for issuing debt, so I don't see a reason why this can't work for something more physical.
T bills and bonds are guaranteed by the full faith of the federal government, whatever that means (joking here).
I'm not sure if the FCC spectrum model is a good model to follow.
I agree 1000%. I'd abolish the FCC and allow whoever wanted to to use the airwaves. The most I'd do is have a few regulations to prevent the interference of communications, especially for emergencies such as fire and law enforcement. Maybe certain frequencies can be set aside for this.
Falcont is easy to be critical and not actually try to be part of the solution. Does your house have the most efficient heat and air conditioning?
Right now I don't own a home, I rent. While the whole building is heated from one gas unit, there is no air conditioning. Why I don't own it now the plan is that I will buy the building, which contains 4 apartments. Currently my sister owns the apartment building, because I'm on disability and don't work I wouldn't qualify for a mortgage to buy it. However once there is enough equity in it it will be transfered to me and I will take over the mortgage. Once I do I plan to save as much money as I can for a few years then hire an architect to create a better design. Reusing as much of the material as I can I'll gut out the interior and rebuild the interior adding more insulation ceiling fans for air circulation and radiant floor heating each unit can control themselves.
Prior to my disability I was roughly designing the home I wanted to build, being that I wanted to build it Off the Grid I was designing it to be as energy efficient as possible, then it would of been powered by a hybrid system using PVs and a wind genie, generator, with a battery bank to store the energy.
Are you driving a vehicle that gets 50+ MPG?
No, my car only gets about 30 mpg city. However I drive it less than 5,000 miles a year, I got it new in 2000 and I haven't yet put 40,000 miles on it. I'd love to have gotten a better mileage vehicle, such as a hybrid, however being on disability I couldn't afford it. Even when I attended college and worked though, I still rode my bike most of the tyme. Though I had a car, I rode my bike more than 200 miles a week. Actually that's how I ended up with my disability, while riding my bike I was hit by a moving van, the apartment movers sort, and I was not expected to survive. While in a coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if I lived. Instead I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, and my life has been a living hell since.
Your comments stating,"Yea, because energy users never actually see how much the energy they use costs." is a little ambiguous. Do you pay an electric bill?
Yes, I pay an electric bill. And nowhere on it do I see anything about paying for the pollution my use causes to be released. Frequently though the power company does include pamphlets on what they're doing about it, or tips on conserving energy. Actually my power company gets a lot of it's electricity from wind genies, the state I live in is Minnesota and it generates several megawatts of wind power. And it can be ramped up to produce more, which helps farmers as they get paid for the property rental the towers use.
Falcon