provide basic heath coverage baked into tax dollars and allow anyone to buy top up insurance from wherever they want to. In that way I need not fill out a 5-page form for every prostate exam, not have my family's access to healthcare held to ransom by an employer and the government could have saved cash over the government heathcare dollar feeding frenzy they have inherited.
Yea and I and everyone else gets stuck paying for other's bad life style choices. Why should anyone be stuck paying for someone's heart attack when they ate high cholesterol foods, didn't exercise, and otherwise let their health go to shit? I don't now but I used to eat a lot of health food, took supplements, and got a lot of exercise. Not only did I ride my bike 100 to 200 or more miles a week but I also ran, and practiced dancing and martial arts. In other words I tried to live a healthy life thus reducing health care costs.
Of course that all ended when I was hit while riding my bike and I survived a disability.
Shame on the Democrats for having blown any chance of worthwhile reform for many years to come and shame on the Republicans for choosing politics over constructive opposition
Shame on Democrats for choosing politics over constructive reform of the health care system. Not only did they not give people who buy their own insurance the same tax deductions employers get for offering insurance to employees but they also added a tax on health insurance policies.
it's pretty likely what would happen before too long would be the same thing that's happened in telecom, broadcast, newspapers, and a bunch of other industries: we'll consolidate nationally to 2-3 players.
That's easy to deal with. Wasn't there talk about hearings and an investigation when Microsoft sought to buy Yahoo!? Didn't the FTC investigate Google's buyout of Doubleclick?
profitability as an insurance company depends strongly on what you can negotiate with providers,
Someone in a post above wrote about how a hospital in, AZ I think, started refusing the coverage from one insurance company because of what it wasw doing. That forced the company to change it's policy or behavior.
Also many insurance companies are corporations and the charter which grants them limited liability can be revoked. If businesses are allowed to get away with anything it's because people allow it to not because it can't be punished.
This is why Republicans are so afraid of the public option - that it might actually work. The post office works pretty good for me,
The post office works pretty well? HAHA! The US Postal Service is doing so well it had "nearly $2 billion loss for the second quarter ended March 31".
"The agency is reviewing 3,100 post offices and retail outlets -- out of 36,700 -- for possible closure or consolidation, and it expects decisions by Oct. 1. Since 2000, the agency has shut 1,337 post offices and outlets, and since 2005 it has closed two of 380 mail-processing centers and consolidated nine. Dozens of other proposed closures or mergers were rejected, many following local resistance."
What is really sad is that it had NOTHING TO LOWER COSTS. We are in need of tort reform (how much money is paid out for lawsuits); costs of the docs eduction; costs of the drugs; costs of the hospital; etc.
Once the government is paying for your health care, they can pretty much mandate what you eat, what you smoke, what you drink, how long you live, etc.
What is stopping private insurance companies from doing this?
When a business does that I have the choice to buy insurance from another company, or not buy insurance. When it's government and I don't do as it dictates a goon squad will show up at my door to drag me away.
I fear government far more than any business. I know of no business that killed forget 50 million Chinese and other Asians, forget 20 million Russians and Eastern Europeans, just 600,000 Jews. I know of no business that killed as many as Pol Pot or the Hutus. Not even Union Carbide killed that many, less than 4000 died in Bhopal, India.
It doesn't matter if you have 1000 choices if they're all the same.
But are they the same? Or are they like PC makers and offer different options? Do I want to get an Intel or an AMD? Do I want a ATI or an nVidia? Do I want Linux, OS X, or Windows?
So, it's much better to have a corporation telling you what to eat, what you smoke, how long you live, etc.
With competition you have choices. Currently there is no competition and the only thing the bill that was passed adds is a public option. When I and everyone else can get the same tax deductions employers get for offering insurance, and be allowed to cross state lines to get insurance, then there will be real competition.
The bill the House passed does nether of these. At least that I know of, I haven't gone through the 2000 pages. Neither have any of the representatives who voted for it I suspect.
the proposed legislature is good enough to be worth passing
I couldn't disagree more.
There is a school of economic thought that says when the economy is bad, the best thing for the government to do is spend money to stimulate the economy. The Great Depression lasted for as long as it did in part because the US government did the "responsible thing"
There's a school of thought which says the Great Depression lasted as long as it did because the government interfered.
which it didn't do until World War II forced the US government to begin spending on materiel
Actually the nation was recovering from the Great Depression before WWII. The recovery started before the Recession of 1937-1938, which as the wiki article says "was a temporary reversal of the pre-war 1933 to 1941 economic recovery from the Great Depression in the United States."
Part of the problem here is that U.S. public policy since Reagan is dominated by the mantra, "The marketplace can handle the problem." And very often, that's true. But not always, as this problem shows.
The marketplace hasn't been allowed to handle the problem. Because of price and wage control laws in World War 2 employers were not allowed to pay employees more. Because this interference damaged employers' ability to hire workers the government started allowing employers to offer to employees benefits such as health insurance. When an employer did they got a tax deduction. That is why today most people in the US get health insurance through their employer. However a person who buys their own insurance does not get that tax deduction.
So does Cuba, does that mean we should follow Cuba's lead?
There are waits for some procedures for stuff that won't kill you. If you have a serious illness you get to see a doctor and whatever specialist is required within hours in most cases.
Canada has no rationing? None at all? Waiting for surgery isn't as bad in Canada? Wait tymes weren't at an all-time high in Canada? Average waiting tymes in Canada for surgery isn't 16 weeks?
Anyone who does not follow that procedure should (IMHO) be jailed and deported, the same way you arrest an intruder you find in your living room. The intruder does not belong.
What American Indian tribe stamped your, or your relative's who immigrated here, visa?
LEGAL immigrant labor. Illegals that were rejected at Ellis Island were sent back home.
No, illegal immigrants. The native American Indians didn't stamp the visas of any Europeans who came. The same Europeans who then massacred the native Americans, stole their land, then shoved those who lived onto small reservations.
Securing the borders is an almost impossible task but being tough on illegals here is not.
If only the native American Indians had been able to do that too. Then they wouldn't have been massacred, had land stolen from then, then forced onto small reservations.
We could require businesses to have scanners just like we require handicap parking spaces and require all businesses to refuse services to illegal aliens and report any who attempt to purchase services.
Papers please. Send him to the gulag, he doesn't have papers. Or try this, he doesn't have to mark of the beast, 666 or whatever.
So lift requirements for the ER to care for illegal aliens.
So it's alright if you have an accident or heart attack and don't have your papers to prove you're a citizen so the hospital refuses to treat you? "He can't prove his a citizen so throw him out."
Why wouldn't you want citizens status to be verified, prior to their receiving taxpayer dollars?
Why wouldn't I? As a college student I was riding my bike after classes one day when I was hit. As I was riding my bike I wasn't required to have my driver's license with me. Because I was in a coma I couldn't answer questions either. And not having thousands of dollars or an insurance card, I didn't have insurance so I didn't carry one, I couldn't prove I had coverage. Despite the lack of any indication that I could pay a medical bill I still got treatment. If I had to prove I was a citizen in order to get treatment I would have been dead.
Slashdot Mirror
provide basic heath coverage baked into tax dollars and allow anyone to buy top up insurance from wherever they want to. In that way I need not fill out a 5-page form for every prostate exam, not have my family's access to healthcare held to ransom by an employer and the government could have saved cash over the government heathcare dollar feeding frenzy they have inherited.
Yea and I and everyone else gets stuck paying for other's bad life style choices. Why should anyone be stuck paying for someone's heart attack when they ate high cholesterol foods, didn't exercise, and otherwise let their health go to shit? I don't now but I used to eat a lot of health food, took supplements, and got a lot of exercise. Not only did I ride my bike 100 to 200 or more miles a week but I also ran, and practiced dancing and martial arts. In other words I tried to live a healthy life thus reducing health care costs.
Of course that all ended when I was hit while riding my bike and I survived a disability.
Shame on the Democrats for having blown any chance of worthwhile reform for many years to come and shame on the Republicans for choosing politics over constructive opposition
Shame on Democrats for choosing politics over constructive reform of the health care system. Not only did they not give people who buy their own insurance the same tax deductions employers get for offering insurance to employees but they also added a tax on health insurance policies.
Falcon
it's pretty likely what would happen before too long would be the same thing that's happened in telecom, broadcast, newspapers, and a bunch of other industries: we'll consolidate nationally to 2-3 players.
That's easy to deal with. Wasn't there talk about hearings and an investigation when Microsoft sought to buy Yahoo!? Didn't the FTC investigate Google's buyout of Doubleclick?
profitability as an insurance company depends strongly on what you can negotiate with providers,
Someone in a post above wrote about how a hospital in, AZ I think, started refusing the coverage from one insurance company because of what it wasw doing. That forced the company to change it's policy or behavior.
Also many insurance companies are corporations and the charter which grants them limited liability can be revoked. If businesses are allowed to get away with anything it's because people allow it to not because it can't be punished.
Falcon
Ah, RoadID "was born in the fall of 1999". My accident was in 1996. A lot of good it would do for me.
Falcon
Emergency care is emergency care, from what I read the US hospitals already provide that to anybody.
They are, but if a person has to prove they have a right to be in the US then it will no longer be true.
Falcon
What does this have to do with only the OSI being able to define what open source is?
Falcon
Another GOVERNMENT SUPPORT RECIPIENT terrified over nothing more than they are going to lose their place at the trough.
Ah, another mind reader who knows everything about me.
Troll
Falcon
This is why Republicans are so afraid of the public option - that it might actually work. The post office works pretty good for me,
The post office works pretty well? HAHA! The US Postal Service is doing so well it had "nearly $2 billion loss for the second quarter ended March 31".
"The agency is reviewing 3,100 post offices and retail outlets -- out of 36,700 -- for possible closure or consolidation, and it expects decisions by Oct. 1. Since 2000, the agency has shut 1,337 post offices and outlets, and since 2005 it has closed two of 380 mail-processing centers and consolidated nine. Dozens of other proposed closures or mergers were rejected, many following local resistance."
Falcon
person
When you mandate a check for status when someone is injured before treatment is given you mandate citizens' death.
Falcon
What is really sad is that it had NOTHING TO LOWER COSTS. We are in need of tort reform (how much money is paid out for lawsuits); costs of the docs eduction; costs of the drugs; costs of the hospital; etc.
Where is your evidence lawsuits are responsible for soaring health care costs? Understanding medical malpractice insurance: A primer [pdf] estimates that lawsuits cost less than half a percent of total health care spending.
Falcon
Once the government is paying for your health care, they can pretty much mandate what you eat, what you smoke, what you drink, how long you live, etc.
What is stopping private insurance companies from doing this?
When a business does that I have the choice to buy insurance from another company, or not buy insurance. When it's government and I don't do as it dictates a goon squad will show up at my door to drag me away.
I fear government far more than any business. I know of no business that killed forget 50 million Chinese and other Asians, forget 20 million Russians and Eastern Europeans, just 600,000 Jews. I know of no business that killed as many as Pol Pot or the Hutus. Not even Union Carbide killed that many, less than 4000 died in Bhopal, India.
Falcon
It doesn't matter if you have 1000 choices if they're all the same.
But are they the same? Or are they like PC makers and offer different options? Do I want to get an Intel or an AMD? Do I want a ATI or an nVidia? Do I want Linux, OS X, or Windows?
Falcon
So, it's much better to have a corporation telling you what to eat, what you smoke, how long you live, etc.
With competition you have choices. Currently there is no competition and the only thing the bill that was passed adds is a public option. When I and everyone else can get the same tax deductions employers get for offering insurance, and be allowed to cross state lines to get insurance, then there will be real competition.
The bill the House passed does nether of these. At least that I know of, I haven't gone through the 2000 pages. Neither have any of the representatives who voted for it I suspect.
Falcon
Wow, I didn't know Thomas Jefferson cut off the third leg of the stool of checks and balances.
Falcon
the proposed legislature is good enough to be worth passing
I couldn't disagree more.
There is a school of economic thought that says when the economy is bad, the best thing for the government to do is spend money to stimulate the economy. The Great Depression lasted for as long as it did in part because the US government did the "responsible thing"
There's a school of thought which says the Great Depression lasted as long as it did because the government interfered.
which it didn't do until World War II forced the US government to begin spending on materiel
Actually the nation was recovering from the Great Depression before WWII. The recovery started before the Recession of 1937-1938, which as the wiki article says "was a temporary reversal of the pre-war 1933 to 1941 economic recovery from the Great Depression in the United States."
Falcon
Part of the problem here is that U.S. public policy since Reagan is dominated by the mantra, "The marketplace can handle the problem." And very often, that's true. But not always, as this problem shows.
The marketplace hasn't been allowed to handle the problem. Because of price and wage control laws in World War 2 employers were not allowed to pay employees more. Because this interference damaged employers' ability to hire workers the government started allowing employers to offer to employees benefits such as health insurance. When an employer did they got a tax deduction. That is why today most people in the US get health insurance through their employer. However a person who buys their own insurance does not get that tax deduction.
Here's more on the History of Health Insurance Benefits.
Falcon
Liberty died the minute Reagan came to power and the "moral majority" and corporate powers took over Washington.
No, liberty was dying a death of a thousand cuts before Reagan.
Falcon
The threat of malpractice lawsuits means doctors must buy expensive malpractice insurance.
And of course those doctors are all angels and never make mistakes?
Falcon
the USA
So does Cuba, does that mean we should follow Cuba's lead?
There are waits for some procedures for stuff that won't kill you. If you have a serious illness you get to see a doctor and whatever specialist is required within hours in most cases.
Canada has no rationing? None at all? Waiting for surgery isn't as bad in Canada? Wait tymes weren't at an all-time high in Canada? Average waiting tymes in Canada for surgery isn't 16 weeks?
Falcon
Anyone who does not follow that procedure should (IMHO) be jailed and deported, the same way you arrest an intruder you find in your living room. The intruder does not belong.
What American Indian tribe stamped your, or your relative's who immigrated here, visa?
Falcon
>>>wasn't America built on immigrant labor?
LEGAL immigrant labor. Illegals that were rejected at Ellis Island were sent back home.
No, illegal immigrants. The native American Indians didn't stamp the visas of any Europeans who came. The same Europeans who then massacred the native Americans, stole their land, then shoved those who lived onto small reservations.
Falcon
Securing the borders is an almost impossible task but being tough on illegals here is not.
If only the native American Indians had been able to do that too. Then they wouldn't have been massacred, had land stolen from then, then forced onto small reservations.
We could require businesses to have scanners just like we require handicap parking spaces and require all businesses to refuse services to illegal aliens and report any who attempt to purchase services.
Papers please. Send him to the gulag, he doesn't have papers. Or try this, he doesn't have to mark of the beast, 666 or whatever.
Falcon
So lift requirements for the ER to care for illegal aliens.
So it's alright if you have an accident or heart attack and don't have your papers to prove you're a citizen so the hospital refuses to treat you? "He can't prove his a citizen so throw him out."
Falcon
Why wouldn't you want citizens status to be verified, prior to their receiving taxpayer dollars?
Why wouldn't I? As a college student I was riding my bike after classes one day when I was hit. As I was riding my bike I wasn't required to have my driver's license with me. Because I was in a coma I couldn't answer questions either. And not having thousands of dollars or an insurance card, I didn't have insurance so I didn't carry one, I couldn't prove I had coverage. Despite the lack of any indication that I could pay a medical bill I still got treatment. If I had to prove I was a citizen in order to get treatment I would have been dead.
Falcon
They are not saying they are denied medical treatment. They are being denied insurance.
That's what I said here.
Lies? The republican party did NOTHING for 6 years when they had total control of both houses.
Republican did nothing for 6 year while they had control of congress? How do yo explain GOP Congress Moves Ahead on Ryan White Care Act then? Or this, Bush Unveils Health Care Plan. How about this, Republicans Propose Medicare HMO Payment Increases. My google fu isn't that good but it didn't take long to find those. Less than a minute later and I found this, A Massachusetts Republican aims for 'universal healthcare'.
So yes, to say Republicans did noting is either ignorant or lying.
Am I really defending Republicans?
I don't need FUD. The facts speak for themselves.
And your facts are no more factual than other FUD.
Falcon
On the scale of the USA mass transit will cost more. The density of population is too low.
Nationwide yes but most people in the US live in cities.
Another issue with mass transit is that it only carries people.
Mass transit also carries cargo, depending on how you define "mass transit".
Falcon