I understand that people like to jump onto privacy, but there are a couple of things to think about here:
- We have a privacy policy that you can check out
- There isn't much information we can actually get here because:
a) The goal is to have JavaScript files cached regularly, so as you go to other sites the browser will read the library from the cache and never have to hit Google!
b) If we can get browsers to work with the system they can likewise do more optimistic caching which again means not having to go to Google
c) The referrer data is just from the page itself that loaded the JavaScript. If you think about it, if you included prototype.js anyway then we could get that information via the spider... but it isn't of interest.
We are a for profit company, but we also want to make the Web a better faster place, as that helps our business right there. The more people on the Web, the more people doing searches, and thus the better we can monetize.
Hopefully as we continue to roll out services, we will continue to prove ourselves and keep the trust levels high with you, the developers.
Cheers,
Dion
Google Developer Programs
Ajaxian.com
JBoss is a business. It has VC backing that wants to make money to put back in its fund.
As long as the money is right, it is there to be sold, and there is nothing wrong with that:)
Mr. Critical Guy,
I am sorry, I can't explain the buzz to be honest. I also can't explain why this posting actually made it on to slashdot as there isn't technical meat in it.
For some reason if you mention Ajax || Web 2.0 || Google || Microsoft || Apple || Linux, you are a sure thing right?;)
I think that the reason that the term Ajax took off, isn't due to the name itself (most people aren't fans due to the other million things that are out there) but it gave us one word to explain the concept.
Now, the concept itself is very fluffy isn't it. I personally don't subscribe to the technical view (that it has to be XHR and XML...). All I care about is the fact that we are now finally able to make server side calls whenever we want, and can update a piece of the page instead of redrawing everything.
This is the shift in thinking that is now making into the mainstream (even though we have been doing this in general for years with many techniques including XHR).
Cheers,
Dion
The event model is painful to work with cross browser. That is why we have to have our own code abstracting things away, or using the good frameworks out there that do this (Dojo, Zimbra,...).
There are lots of features such as offline capabilities, browser side caches, etc... but the most bang for the buck is just getting the browsers to actually implement all of the standards correctly. This is in DOM, CSS, HTML, JavaScript.
If this gap can keep closing (it is a lot better now than a few years ago) then I will be happy.
The big scare is that MS goes nuts and breaks everything:)
MS said that they consider some of SVG not hardware acceleratable (er, really?) and that is why they have a kinda subset within XAML.
Canvas in IE would be great too.
And a nice JavaScript VM (HotSpot-able), that doesn't leak memory would be great too.
Although Ajax started out life talking about JavaScript, html, css, etc. It was never defined as an acronym.
In my opinion the promise of "Ajax" is not XMLHttpRequest. The shift is in the architecture.
Instead of a full request/response/redraw cycle, we can do what any application framework allows, in that we can talk back to the server based on any action (click, hover, sneeze) get some response, and dynamically change something on the page.
This change is powerful and a no-brainer. Imagine if you clicked on a button if you email client and every widget re-drew itself each time!
We have to not go crazy though. The bests uses of Ajax are often subtle, as we don't want to leave behind our users.
One of the great things about the web is that my grandma knows how to use it. See a link. click it. Same for a button. Learn a few buttons (back/forward/reload).
We need to make sure that our web applications are still usable. With ajax you can INCREASE usability if you are careful, but you also have the power to do the opposite.
I agree that there is a lot of hype out there.
As is often the case, the hype machine doesn't come from the people actually using it.
We have been interviewing Ajax developers on our Audible Ajax podcast, and as always, the developers are not religious "Ajax everywhere, it is a silver bullet!" nuts. They are pragmatic, know when it makes sense, and when it doesn't. And, they also know the pain points.
I for one hope the hype doesn't ruin things by setting the expectations as crazy as they are.
Ajax is great in that it gives you reach, and is built on open standards. It is causing browsers to give us APIs that we have wanted for a long time, and can take the web to the next level, along with other technologies.
There is a long way to go though. We need to learn when to use it, and need to focus on usability in general, and not using Ajax just because it is cool.
We do a lot of Ajax consulting, and one of the biggest things we do is get people away from the question "so I want you to build an Ajax application".
Cheers,
Dion
Moby,
Ajax is being hyped a lot at the moment, that is very true. It is also true that building a very rich Ajax application on top of XHR isn't easy.
However, one of the great things coming out of the attention, is that browsers are listening and adding support for apis such as "offline storage" which we have been wanting forever.
Also, a lot of quality toolkits are out there now (Dojo, Zimbra, Prototype,...) and they are doing the hard work of abstracting out the evil browser differences.
Unfortunely, a recent poll on ajaxian.com showed that most people are not using these frameworks.
What you get with Ajax is reach and open standards. That is why I am excited about its potential, even though we are seeing some abuse, the hype curve is nuts.
Cheers,
Dion
Hi,
My name is Dion Almaer, and I run a site called ajaxian.com which focuses on news, resources, and all things Ajax.
We also have a podcast called Audible Ajax.
Let us know if there is anything that you would like to see covered, and if there is anything cool in the Ajax world that we have missed.
Cheers,
Dion
Slashdot Mirror
I understand that people like to jump onto privacy, but there are a couple of things to think about here: - We have a privacy policy that you can check out - There isn't much information we can actually get here because: a) The goal is to have JavaScript files cached regularly, so as you go to other sites the browser will read the library from the cache and never have to hit Google! b) If we can get browsers to work with the system they can likewise do more optimistic caching which again means not having to go to Google c) The referrer data is just from the page itself that loaded the JavaScript. If you think about it, if you included prototype.js anyway then we could get that information via the spider... but it isn't of interest. We are a for profit company, but we also want to make the Web a better faster place, as that helps our business right there. The more people on the Web, the more people doing searches, and thus the better we can monetize. Hopefully as we continue to roll out services, we will continue to prove ourselves and keep the trust levels high with you, the developers. Cheers, Dion Google Developer Programs Ajaxian.com
JBoss is a business. It has VC backing that wants to make money to put back in its fund. As long as the money is right, it is there to be sold, and there is nothing wrong with that :)
Mr. Critical Guy, ;)
...). All I care about is the fact that we are now finally able to make server side calls whenever we want, and can update a piece of the page instead of redrawing everything.
I am sorry, I can't explain the buzz to be honest. I also can't explain why this posting actually made it on to slashdot as there isn't technical meat in it.
For some reason if you mention Ajax || Web 2.0 || Google || Microsoft || Apple || Linux, you are a sure thing right?
I think that the reason that the term Ajax took off, isn't due to the name itself (most people aren't fans due to the other million things that are out there) but it gave us one word to explain the concept.
Now, the concept itself is very fluffy isn't it. I personally don't subscribe to the technical view (that it has to be XHR and XML
This is the shift in thinking that is now making into the mainstream (even though we have been doing this in general for years with many techniques including XHR).
Cheers,
Dion
You have hit two of the hot ones.
The event model is painful to work with cross browser. That is why we have to have our own code abstracting things away, or using the good frameworks out there that do this (Dojo, Zimbra, ...).
There are lots of features such as offline capabilities, browser side caches, etc... but the most bang for the buck is just getting the browsers to actually implement all of the standards correctly. This is in DOM, CSS, HTML, JavaScript.
If this gap can keep closing (it is a lot better now than a few years ago) then I will be happy.
The big scare is that MS goes nuts and breaks everything :)
MS said that they consider some of SVG not hardware acceleratable (er, really?) and that is why they have a kinda subset within XAML.
Canvas in IE would be great too.
And a nice JavaScript VM (HotSpot-able), that doesn't leak memory would be great too.
Dion
Although Ajax started out life talking about JavaScript, html, css, etc. It was never defined as an acronym. In my opinion the promise of "Ajax" is not XMLHttpRequest. The shift is in the architecture. Instead of a full request/response/redraw cycle, we can do what any application framework allows, in that we can talk back to the server based on any action (click, hover, sneeze) get some response, and dynamically change something on the page. This change is powerful and a no-brainer. Imagine if you clicked on a button if you email client and every widget re-drew itself each time! We have to not go crazy though. The bests uses of Ajax are often subtle, as we don't want to leave behind our users. One of the great things about the web is that my grandma knows how to use it. See a link. click it. Same for a button. Learn a few buttons (back/forward/reload). We need to make sure that our web applications are still usable. With ajax you can INCREASE usability if you are careful, but you also have the power to do the opposite.
I agree that there is a lot of hype out there. As is often the case, the hype machine doesn't come from the people actually using it. We have been interviewing Ajax developers on our Audible Ajax podcast, and as always, the developers are not religious "Ajax everywhere, it is a silver bullet!" nuts. They are pragmatic, know when it makes sense, and when it doesn't. And, they also know the pain points. I for one hope the hype doesn't ruin things by setting the expectations as crazy as they are. Ajax is great in that it gives you reach, and is built on open standards. It is causing browsers to give us APIs that we have wanted for a long time, and can take the web to the next level, along with other technologies. There is a long way to go though. We need to learn when to use it, and need to focus on usability in general, and not using Ajax just because it is cool. We do a lot of Ajax consulting, and one of the biggest things we do is get people away from the question "so I want you to build an Ajax application". Cheers, Dion
Moby, Ajax is being hyped a lot at the moment, that is very true. It is also true that building a very rich Ajax application on top of XHR isn't easy. However, one of the great things coming out of the attention, is that browsers are listening and adding support for apis such as "offline storage" which we have been wanting forever. Also, a lot of quality toolkits are out there now (Dojo, Zimbra, Prototype, ...) and they are doing the hard work of abstracting out the evil browser differences.
Unfortunely, a recent poll on ajaxian.com showed that most people are not using these frameworks.
What you get with Ajax is reach and open standards. That is why I am excited about its potential, even though we are seeing some abuse, the hype curve is nuts.
Cheers,
Dion
Hi, My name is Dion Almaer, and I run a site called ajaxian.com which focuses on news, resources, and all things Ajax. We also have a podcast called Audible Ajax. Let us know if there is anything that you would like to see covered, and if there is anything cool in the Ajax world that we have missed. Cheers, Dion