How easy would it be to remove IE and Active X without them?
Relatively easy once you know a few facts, just a little time consuming seeking the correct keys in the registry.
How about the average lay person?
The average lay person in my expirence can't drag and drop. So, they're better off using something like XP-lite which has buttons.
Now compare that to dragging Safari to the trash and emptying it. No contest.
I don't believe I ever disagreed that it was easier to remove the browser on MacOSX.
Um, no. Safari uses Webkit, but so do other applications such as the help system.
And windows's new help system doesn't? Other software makes use of the MSHTML component tooThat does not make webkit part of the browser.By your logic, MSHTML isn't either thenMost MacOSX users actually say that about Microsoft's MSHTML/WebBrowser Active X component, so I was just evening the playing field in my earlier post.
But if "being used by" Safari makes it part of Safari, why don't you apply the same standard to IE, and remove all dll's called by the browser and see how well you computer boots next time.
Done this already long time ago, system is still booting fine. But I shall explain a little more in depth for you.
Removing the "C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer" folder pretty much removes Internet Explorer (of course you need to remove from WFP first).
Of course it doesn't remove the MSHTML active x component, but that isn't a DLL called by Internet Explorer, but a Active X component which Internet Explorer calls (just like people talk about how Safari uses webkit). Which too can be removed completely, but you need to play a little with the registry if you want Explorer to start without the DLLs (this is because of REQUIRED icons being pointed to in the registry to certain DLLs used by the MSHTML active x components -- I believe Microsoft did this on pupose to give evidence Windows won't function properly without the DLLs).
Changing the settings in the registry is obviously trivial. You can safely remove the WebBrowser/MSHTML active x component from the registry and leave the DLLs there too which is generally better for service pack updates as there are no missing files.
I'm running OpenSuSE 10.1 on my Thinkpad R51 with a pretty standard ATI Mobility Radeon
You should have 3d acceleration out of the box with the default stuff that comes with X.org (if you install FGLRX, it messes with your mesa libraries and won't give you 3d acceleration).
So I'm stuck with the OSS drivers which although are great for 2D, don't perform well enough for anything other than TuxCart.
I have 3d acceleration with the OSS drivers I have (they just won't get 3d acceleration if fglrx is installed). I have a Radeon Mobility M6 LY -- Pretty standard.
Actually, I mispoke when I said distro...are you using an emulator such as Cedega or Wine, or are you just using a Linux port of a game? I've got a TON of Windows games that are tethering me to the MS OS.
Well, to be honest, Cedega has never worked for me -- worst support puchase ever. However Wine seems to work out of the box with most games. Wine's application DB gives plenty of information on how to get specific games/applications working. I do play some Linux versions of games like Unreal Tournament, Second life.
No doubt something ext3 or Reiser would offer a performance boost over FAT32/NTFS, as well as a Linux graphics driver.
It's a shame graphic card drivers released by ATi/nVidia aren't open specifications, or the 3d accelerated graphic support for new cards would be 'out of the box'.
I can take out other parts of OS X that come by default too, but I don't have to bother with OS X. It's like buying a reverse kit, "some dissasembly required".
That is one difference.
You also don't have to under Windows, but you can.
How are they parts of the OS? Each is a seperate application.
Again you are not underdstanding the places the IE DLL's get used internally and the vast difference.
Where are they used internally? I don't have IE at all on this system, not even the IE/MSHTML active x components are installed.
If you have not removes the IE DLL's and left yourself with a functioning windows system, all of what you have said means squat.
I have removed them.
Yes it too is a library but it's a question of what parts of the OS rely on and would freak out if you remove that library altogether. I can boot if I removed Webkit, could you boot if you removed the IE ActiveX libraries?
Nor does Explorer if you remove the neccessary registry keys.
Nor does any other part of the OS.
If you consider Dashboard, Help Viewer, Software Update etc. not parts of the OS, you're right.
It's just there as a helpful library for developing applications, in a way that IE in Windows is not...
IE can be removed easilly, you're still left with the MSHTML component, which is the equilivant to Webkit really. It's offered as a helpful active x component for developing in applications too.
IE is more deeply embedded and is thus a far greater security risk.
In what way? I'm currently typing on a Windows 2003 system that does not have Internet Explorer, or MSHTML's components. Explorer works fine, all my control panel items work fine. The only things that don't work which I never use: Windows's CHM help, Outlook express, WMP's media guide thing.
You need to understand how deeply integrated in the system IE is in Windows in comparison to Webkit which is, again, just a library.
Technically, all a active x component is, is a library. Other than what I have already stated and IE having a lot of settings hidden in the registry, I don't see really much more 'integration' than that.
I'm open to any evidence you would like to contribute however.
Really?! Which distro are you using? I'm interested.
I am using Kubuntu at the moment, my friends believe the reason why it's faster, is generally because the filesystems availible under Linux are far faster (we've noticed far less HD activity).
Just some little cultural insight from what I've seen in Poland:)
Apple does a great job of making products people want to buy.
With the iPods, they seem to be unstoppable. No matter what other companies offer, people want the iPod + iTunes more.
This is why the iPod is not popular in Poland: People do not understand why you cannot just copy your music file over to the iPod 'drive'. It seems far more primative than the cheaper portable players which just work by copying the content you want over.
With laptops, they make a sexier product than almost anyone else.
I've seen people buy Falcon Northwest laptops if they wanted 'sexy' and high powered here in Poland. Infact, I don't recall even see any Apples in the big stores here (there is one Apple store in my city, but it's not ran by Apple -- So there is some interest in Apple it seems), but I have seen cheap Linux computers in big stores.
To top it off, they do all this with higher profit margins than any other company. It's no surprise that their market share, and their stock, are both on the rise.
I don't think people care about company profit margins here.
Those who need serious text editing can use vim or Eclipse, and those who don't can use TextEdit or TextWrangler (though the latter is on the serious side).
You know, I don't know a single OS where VIM isn't available.
Just like you can't really remove MSHTML and have a useable Windows (since Windows 98), you cannot remove WebKit and have a useable Mac OS X (since Panther).
Uh? I'm typing on Windows 2003 machine right now without the IE active x component at all (and don't have ReactOS's Mozilla activex replacement either). The system is plenty usable and not broken. Explorer, the control panel. Pretty much everything is working (except for WMP's media page, outlook express -- which I don't use either).
when you have the same people making the hardware as writing the software, things Just Work (TM). Not like when you have random 3rd-party OEMs writing broken drivers for a closed OS, or patient programmers desperately trying to reverse engineer specs for hardware which also has undocumented bugs and problems!
People don't seem to understand the difference between how IE and Safari are "bundled".
I understand, I've succesfully removed IE and it's active x components from windows, I don't have the registry keys for you off hand. I've deleted IE completely from windows, it really can be done in a few simple steps. You can even replace the active x component with ReactOS's Mozilla active x replacement if you want to.
Now, trying to remove Safari completely from MacOSX... That includes the webkit. Then you are going to find the system is completely borked on next boot.
IE is completely integrated into Windows so much that it is IMPOSSIBLE to remove it (since Windows 95c, right?).
OS X's strengths tend to lie in niche groups (Music, Video and Graphics) or the arcane (command line *nix world).
Music: Most of the good music editing software I know about runs under Windows... Video: 'cause rebooting the Mac for codecs is cool - not like we don't have things like Kino, Avidemux, AviSynth, Diva, Kdenlive Avid Xpress DV, Cinelerra, FORscene, MainActor, Pinnacle Studio MediaSuite, Sony Vegas, Ulead MediaStudio Pro, Ulead VideoStudio Plus, *shiver* Windows Movie Maker and Adobe Premiere. Infact there is not much of a choice availible on MacOSX in my opinion. Graphics:...What? Photoshop? I recall Photoshop running faster under Windows under Macintels than on MacOSX. Command line *nix world: I hate to break this to you, but more *WORKING* GNU utilities come with CYGWIN.
Win XP does everyday business tasks in a more comprehensible manner for most folks because most folks have been trained that way.
Agreed, the delay it takes to browse your local network in open/save dialogs is a must.
Opensource software that runs as well as it does on Linux/Windows (Most opensource software I've used on MacOSX was a bit more buggy, had more issues, more crashy or simply not availible on the platform).
Yeah, you should install a completely new OS just to do something like boost performance in WINDOWS games. twitter, is that you?;)
Actually I have seen Windows games perform better under Linux running under Wine (World of Warcraft is one good example I've seen).
Re:I have GIMP installed, but only to save PSDs!
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Beginning GIMP
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Of course it doesn't. It's a new format. This is like bitching that Word 6 can't open documents from Word 97. Or that you can't fit engine parts from a 2000 Ford into your 1960s pickup.
Can I complain about Microsoft Office 2003 being unable to display documents (they open, just the content maybe completely messed up or unreadable) made with older Microsoft Office versions?
I've used Openoffice on systems that have 96MB of RAM -- Other than it being a bit slow. I have not noticed any usability issues.
you're not going to need support,
I don't actually know anyone who has ever used Microsoft support in my life for microsoft office. They always asked the person with most computer knowledge for help (even in large companies).
you're not going to need the pre-written macro code which is everywhere for Office,
Okay, now I *KNOW* you've not use Microsoft Office's help files before if you claim this. Compared to OpenOffice's, they're really crap.
you're not going to use the entire systems implemented in Office (Excel and Access systems are commonplace where I work, they're commercial and not in-house software),
Well, we can reverse is. What about using entire systems implemented in OpenOffice.org? Will Microsoft Office work with that? Even more incompatible.
you don't mind not being able to properly use the documents everyone outside your organisation will be using, and the documents your employees will be bringing from home,
The company I work for can use the documents just fine (they get mostly Microsoft documents and PDF files)
you don't mind the GUI not matching the rest of your system,
I think it matches more under windows than Microsoft Office's does actually...
you don't mind using a piece of software which no-one will have audited,
What does audit mean in this case?
you can't wait for Office 2007 for ODF,
This was actually a big reason why we use OpenOffice in the workplace.
and you don't need a rich macro API.
We haven't found anything we couldn't do in OpenOffice yet.
Quote from the article: "Intel, then, has moved the goalposts as far as consumer-level CPUs are concerned. Its low-end Core 2 Duo parts are more than a match for anything that has come before." Thus, Intel raises the capabilities on the low end systems. This is great. But besides gaming, are there anything needing such performance boost?
Google earth
Windows Vista
Sun Java
Flash (Hell my athlon 64 chokes on some some flash content)
Adobe Photoshop
Adobe premiere
h264 decoders/encoders
XGL compiz
... I'm sure you can come up with plenty of other examples.
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Removing the "C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer" folder pretty much removes Internet Explorer (of course you need to remove from WFP first).
Of course it doesn't remove the MSHTML active x component, but that isn't a DLL called by Internet Explorer, but a Active X component which Internet Explorer calls (just like people talk about how Safari uses webkit). Which too can be removed completely, but you need to play a little with the registry if you want Explorer to start without the DLLs (this is because of REQUIRED icons being pointed to in the registry to certain DLLs used by the MSHTML active x components -- I believe Microsoft did this on pupose to give evidence Windows won't function properly without the DLLs).
Changing the settings in the registry is obviously trivial. You can safely remove the WebBrowser/MSHTML active x component from the registry and leave the DLLs there too which is generally better for service pack updates as there are no missing files.
I have 3d acceleration with the OSS drivers I have (they just won't get 3d acceleration if fglrx is installed). I have a Radeon Mobility M6 LY -- Pretty standard.
It's a shame graphic card drivers released by ATi/nVidia aren't open specifications, or the 3d accelerated graphic support for new cards would be 'out of the box'.
Where are they used internally? I don't have IE at all on this system, not even the IE/MSHTML active x components are installed.
I have removed them.
System is booting fine here.
I'm open to any evidence you would like to contribute however.
This is why the iPod is not popular in Poland: People do not understand why you cannot just copy your music file over to the iPod 'drive'. It seems far more primative than the cheaper portable players which just work by copying the content you want over.
I've seen people buy Falcon Northwest laptops if they wanted 'sexy' and high powered here in Poland. Infact, I don't recall even see any Apples in the big stores here (there is one Apple store in my city, but it's not ran by Apple -- So there is some interest in Apple it seems), but I have seen cheap Linux computers in big stores.
I don't think people care about company profit margins here.
Please see my post on this matter
Now, trying to remove Safari completely from MacOSX... That includes the webkit. Then you are going to find the system is completely borked on next boot.No, not really. Barely anything broke, besides the obvious -- outlook express, Windows Messenger and WMP's media center homepage thing. Hey, and the advantage is, you don't get any advertisments in official instant messengers anymore.I consider webkit part of Safari, as much as people think the Windows WebBrowser active x component is part of Internet Explorer.
Video: 'cause rebooting the Mac for codecs is cool - not like we don't have things like Kino, Avidemux, AviSynth, Diva, Kdenlive Avid Xpress DV, Cinelerra, FORscene, MainActor, Pinnacle Studio MediaSuite, Sony Vegas, Ulead MediaStudio Pro, Ulead VideoStudio Plus, *shiver* Windows Movie Maker and Adobe Premiere. Infact there is not much of a choice availible on MacOSX in my opinion.
Graphics:
Command line *nix world: I hate to break this to you, but more *WORKING* GNU utilities come with CYGWIN.
Agreed, the delay it takes to browse your local network in open/save dialogs is a must.
- Google earth
- Windows Vista
- Sun Java
- Flash (Hell my athlon 64 chokes on some some flash content)
- Adobe Photoshop
- Adobe premiere
- h264 decoders/encoders
- XGL compiz
... I'm sure you can come up with plenty of other examples.