Actually no. The word "light" is used to represent the subset of the electromagnetic spectrum that corresponds to EM radiation in the range that results in visible light. Scientifically, the word "light" has no definition, however most people use the word to refer to its vernacular reference to visible EM radiation. Now don't bother going on the net to find some site that defines it differently. I know you'll find one, but that's because the word's meaning is unduly broad and also because it is so commonly misdefined.
"He" is "me", and I wasn't drawing any comparison between Microsoft and Manhattan. You've really gotten yourself quite lost in understanding the start of this thread. Go back, read the original post more carefully.
In my books, if you outsource something that is your responsibility to deal with, then you are responsible if the person you outsource to fucks it up. End the pass the parcel game of lawsuits and bring back good old taking responsibility for what you do.
The original issue was about a likening between the pervasive surveillance in Manhattan and the society depicted in 1984. The difference isn't quite as big as the difference between a Honda and the second moon of Jupiter. Whether you choose to accept it or not, the likeness between a real world instance of invasive security and a fictional depiction of invasive security is fodder for a perfectly valid simile or metaphor.
I don't choose to misunderstand, but when I'm listening to you, I just can't help it.
Hey numbnuts, I know this is/. but there is nothing that MS can do to help this, nor anything they can do to mitigate the harm. Cut it out with the vitriol. You idiots have such double standards and it's starting to make me sick. When MS does it, it gets labeled FUD. When you do it it gets labeled +1 Insightful. I mean FFS, lets cut out the crap. Now go ahead. Mod me down. I got karma to burn. Fuckers.
It's because the whole idea of launching apps on the user's computer with whatever parameters one wants is really, only one step away from executing arbitrary code.
Or something similar. I think the MS guy shouldn't have said "We at MS don't think we should be responsible for this" as it sounds like they *could* do something if they wanted. He really should have said "We can't stop stupid software makers being stupid. We can do bugger all about this." It's not often MS can legitimately pass the security buck, I'm surprised they didn't ride it for all it's worth this time.
So it's just a curious coincidence that these things all occur regularly in countries governed by Sharia law?
There is no country in the world today that is governed by Sharia law. Not one. As in none. You watch too much TV.
Your ad-hominem fails. An old workmate is an Iranian Muslim who left Iran with his family and moved to Australia due to the social conditions in Iran. One of my highschool friends is a Persian Baha'i whose family left Iran due to religious persecution. A uni mate and drinking buddy, and his ex-girlfriend, are both Muslim. All of these are peaceful Muslims with somewhat 'westernised' values, at least to the point where they don't believe in amputation or stoning, but none of them have ever argued that Sharia-governed countries in the Middle East are not Islamic countries.
It wasn't an ad-hominem, more of an observation. And actually, it still stands. A Muslim who goes out drinking isn't really the kind you're likely to learn much about Islam from. Not that I begrudge him his choice, there are many members of my family who choose to not take their religion seriously, it's up to each person to choose their own destiny. However, I doubt you'll hear much about the nature of Sharia law from them, as they really don't know much about it themselves. They're very much like most Christians today, most of whom couldn't name two apostles.
So not only are U.S. copyright laws the main objection of militant Islamists, but "the Western media" actually IS engaged in a global smear campaign to convince the world that Islamic extremists have a vendetta against Western values? Please.
Copyright laws have nothing to do with it, I was illustrating a point and you've gotten all carried away.
As for the smear campaign, well I don't know what you'd call the repetition of blatantly false information that is pretty obviously designed to spread fear about imminent doom at the hands of the hordes of extremist Muslims. I never used the words "smear campaign", you did. If you had any Muslim friends who actually knew anything about their religion, they'd be more than willing to point out where CNN/Fox is dishing out the BS, and believe you me, it gets dished out in spades on ever terror related news story.
The U.S. government may be taking U.S. citizens' rights away, but those rights are still lightyears better than in Sharia-governed countries.
Again, there are no Sharia governed countries. And if the US freedoms are better than those in Saudi Arabia or Iran, only time will reveal how long that remains the case.
A tiny minority (percentage-wise) of Muslim extremists have convinced themselves that Westerners' values are sinful
True.
thus demonising all Westerners, and that Allah wants them to spread Islam to the world, by force if necessary.
False. Muslims have no interest what you do on your side of the ocean. Muslims (and indeed all third world nations) *do* care what western governments and corporations do when they come into a country and do things like effectively enslave the population for a token wage, overthrow democratically elected governments and replacing them with dictators that serve them, attempt to seize control of the public interest through bribery and corruption, experiment on hapless third worlders with new drugs in the name of profits, and... the list goes on. If you think that it is Muslims/Commies/some other extremist group who are the aggressors and the west are the victims, you need to get your head out of your ass and look around you.
Wait a minute, wait a minute. I just re-read your post. I'm unable to fathom the depth of the stupidity here.
Microsoft can still be a monopoly, while there are alternatives - this is a statement of fact. (Economics)
So by your *exact* same analogy, Manhattan can still be a 1984 type scenario while alternatives to tollroads exist. Hey, you said it, not me buddy.
You can't compare the two things, because they are different. (logic)
Dude, like, seriously, I mean, umm... Where do I start? You're saying that "you can't compare the two things, because they are different" So I can't compare a Honda to a Toyota when I'm buying a car, because they are different? I can't compare the government of the UK to the government of the US in a political studies essay because they are different? So, according to you, I can only compare two things that are *exactly* the same? Dude, like, seriously, I'm at a loss here. When people like you open your mouth, it really reminds me *why* democracy doesn't work: The average person is so stupid, he has to be led like dumb animal. The idea that your opinion (vote) is worth the same a professor of political science is abhorrent.
Re:The Necessity Of Oversight
on
Manhattan 1984
·
· Score: 1
No one is watching the watchers.
I think the problem is that nobody is watching the watchers, but that there are watchers at all. Law enforcement must, in any society that hopes to hold onto its soul (freedom and justice are the soul of a society) must only allow its government to be reactive in asserting its rights over the people as opposed to pre-emptive. This is what was meant when it was said that those would would trade liberty for security deserve neither.
You admit that your uncle provided aid and succor to a known terrorist organization (albeit only food) and that he was discovered by the authorities.
He sent it to a distribution org, which sent it to a regional distribution center, who sent it to a community group. I don't think connections can get much more distant than that.
The point I'm making, you dolt, is that less than a month after he sent the meat (we do it once a year), he was presented with transcripts and records going back 10 years.
The authorities interrogated him and then let him go without loss of freedom or property.
If you think that random searches and arbitrary detention is fine, perhaps you agree with the RIAAs proposed legislation allowing them to remotely install spyware on peoples' PCs to search for music, which essentially is an unwarranted search. On a related note, what the *hell* are you doing on Slashdot?
If you choose to move from the country I don't think too many non-Muslims will cry about it.
And you think I'd be moving out to spite my fellow citizens here or find a better life? You certainly have a twisted world view.
Re:We as Muslims just aren't welcome
on
Manhattan 1984
·
· Score: 1
Whether you like it or not, Islam is now firmly connected with terrorism: blowing up buildings, waging holy war, kidnapping, intimidating, and killing people in the name of Allah, talking about worldwide Islamic revolution, and the like.
Thanks, CNN/Fox
If you send meat that is ultimately distributed by Hizbollah (or Islamic Jihad, or Hizb-Ut-Tahrir, or Jamia Islamiya, or whatever) it is not as harmless as it sounds. This meat helps those organizations to gain popularity and support and recruit fighters from poor people. This is exactly how Hamas came to power.
Right, and the tax dollars you pay go to the US war machine, which is used to "pre-emptively" wage war and to secure foreign resources (read: steal) in the name of national security. That makes you, personally, a threat to pretty much every citizen of the third world. Double standards, anyone?
Just out of interest, do you actually know what percentage of people held in Gitmo are Muslim? I Here's another question, how many people there are actually non-Muslim US citizens? I'll let you find that out for yourself, as homework
You must have skipped reading comprehension. Oh, and "Manhattan is like 1984" is a simile, so you probably skipped most of the other English classes too.
That ignores the fact this sort of religion has no checks and balances, making it especially easy for "Bolsheviks" to take over, so they do!
I'll ignore your misuse of the Bolshevik term, as it just colours you as a rabid "the Commies are coming" nutjob. In fact, Islam is the *only* religion that specifies system of government that embodies democratic principles. It is the reason Muslims want unity of the church and state, because we believe that a godless state is a state in the hands of the whims of men. Modern Middle Eastern nations are *not* Islamic, they are de facto dictatorships, propped up by more powerful geopolitical bodies. The Islamic idea of "shura" is actually the foundational concept behind the corporate board meeting. Islamic government died about 100 years ago, and was replaced by a bunch of crackpot loonies sponsored by the Allied powers who won WW1 and divided up Africa and the Middle East for their own colonial purposes. Muslims do not want Saudi to be the center of the world, we want the West to stop sponsoring the Saudi government. If the US stop supporting the Saudi government and other Middle Eastern nutjobs with military hardware, we, the Muslim people, will do the rest for you.
Can I also ask you, is it possible to find a country where the majority of the country is Muslim, where the government is not either a) a de-facto dictatorship or b) a puppet regime of another, more powerful state ?
First of all, none of what you refer to (subjugation of women, stoning, beating etc) are the result of "Muslim" governments, they are the result of puppet governments propped up by those whose interests they serve. If you knew any Muslims, you'd know this. No Muslim alive has any respect for any of the tinpot puppet dictator regimes currently running the nations of the Middle East.
Islam is expansionist
Not true
unification of church and state
True. So? It's a particular belief system, and there is nothing in the religion (despite all the crap in the Western media) that states that others are to be coerced into that system.
I think that you don't actually know any Muslims, as you don't seem to know anything about Islam other than the flagrant misinformation that gets spouted on TV.
The problem is when militants take the "expand Islam" directive and tack "by force" onto the end.
Tell me, what exactly is it that you think that these expansionist militant Muslims want to take away from you? You talk about tinfoil hats and ridicule the possibility that Western media is engaged in a misinformation campaign, yet you seem to have no problem believing there is an organized group of people out there plotting to kill you and your nation just because they object to your freedom.
Newsflash: It is the West that is sending out armies and waging war in their countries. Your freedoms are being taken away by your own government. The flow of wealth is going from their countries to your country. In light of these facts, I ask you this: Who do you think is doing the expansionist empire thing? Wake the hell up you fool, before it's too late.
There's a difference to being in view in public, and having your whereabouts noted, and retrievable for all of eternity. I find it kinda disconcerting that I could one day be confronted by police with an exhaustive list of my movements for the last 10 years.
My uncle was visited by ASIO for suspected terrorism related stuff. We're Muslim, and it's a tradition donate food to poor people. He runs a butcher, and so sent meat to a Middle Eastern based charity organization. They then sent it to a regional distribution center which then distributed it to various community groups, one of which was apparently on an Interpol watch list of some description. Despite the layer upon layer of distance, my uncle's house was raised, all computer data was copied and he was questioned (bear in mind he sent a bunch of dead sheep, not a briefcase of hard currency or blueprints for nuclear related widget thingies).
He was presented with a list of every phone call he'd made in the last 10 years or so, and every call overseas he was required to explain. We're from South Africa, and are of Indian descent. Being Indian with a bloody huge families we have, we have relatives all over the place, and so we make heaps of overseas phone calls. Eventually, they decided my uncle was harmless, and left him alone. Nonetheless, ever since then I've been gearing up to move to a country that is not in the Western Axis, as I am increasingly getting the feeling that we as Muslims just aren't welcome. Plus, I don't like the idea that someone, somewhere has access to all of my movements.
Oh, and if you're going to give me the "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear" line, please don't, I've heard it many times before and it sounds dumber each time I hear it.
Actually, you're mistaken in your fundamental assumptions. There is no difference between the IRA, the black "terrorists" in South Africa resisting apartheid (South Africa has a Terrorism Taskforce assigned to hunting "terrorists") and current day middle eastern terrorists. "Terrorism" in its current form is due to ridiculously invasive and expoitative foreign policy executed by the US in its lust for oil. If you think anything else, you're high on your own freedom propaganda.
You think Muslims hate you because of your freedom? What, you think they envy living in a society with more cameras trained on the public, a morally indefensible penal code that sends copyright violators to jail for longer than rapists and allows the government to render anyone they want to Gitmo on a whim? I don't know about them, but I sure as HELL don't envy the poor souls living in the US. Oh I'm Muslim, just so's you know.
Wow. Seriously dude, just Wow. I don't know whether to be more astonished by your arrogance, your ignorance, or your incredible ability to mix the two.
Slashdot Mirror
Actually no. The word "light" is used to represent the subset of the electromagnetic spectrum that corresponds to EM radiation in the range that results in visible light. Scientifically, the word "light" has no definition, however most people use the word to refer to its vernacular reference to visible EM radiation. Now don't bother going on the net to find some site that defines it differently. I know you'll find one, but that's because the word's meaning is unduly broad and also because it is so commonly misdefined.
"He" is "me", and I wasn't drawing any comparison between Microsoft and Manhattan. You've really gotten yourself quite lost in understanding the start of this thread. Go back, read the original post more carefully.
See?
AC: Mod, mod! I have something insightful to say!
Mod: Shut up, post under your name or get lost.
In my books, if you outsource something that is your responsibility to deal with, then you are responsible if the person you outsource to fucks it up. End the pass the parcel game of lawsuits and bring back good old taking responsibility for what you do.
"The hospitals, which initially reported their breaches separately, were left with no one to sue."
In this day and age, all I can say is BOO HOO.
The original issue was about a likening between the pervasive surveillance in Manhattan and the society depicted in 1984. The difference isn't quite as big as the difference between a Honda and the second moon of Jupiter. Whether you choose to accept it or not, the likeness between a real world instance of invasive security and a fictional depiction of invasive security is fodder for a perfectly valid simile or metaphor.
I don't choose to misunderstand, but when I'm listening to you, I just can't help it.
Hey numbnuts, I know this is /. but there is nothing that MS can do to help this, nor anything they can do to mitigate the harm. Cut it out with the vitriol. You idiots have such double standards and it's starting to make me sick. When MS does it, it gets labeled FUD. When you do it it gets labeled +1 Insightful. I mean FFS, lets cut out the crap. Now go ahead. Mod me down. I got karma to burn. Fuckers.
It's because the whole idea of launching apps on the user's computer with whatever parameters one wants is really, only one step away from executing arbitrary code.
g &contacts&someone&else
Think
callto://skypeuser?some¶ms&that&induce&sendin
Or something similar. I think the MS guy shouldn't have said "We at MS don't think we should be responsible for this" as it sounds like they *could* do something if they wanted. He really should have said "We can't stop stupid software makers being stupid. We can do bugger all about this." It's not often MS can legitimately pass the security buck, I'm surprised they didn't ride it for all it's worth this time.
Yea, that'd be pointless. Blue wins hands down.
There is no country in the world today that is governed by Sharia law. Not one. As in none. You watch too much TV.
It wasn't an ad-hominem, more of an observation. And actually, it still stands. A Muslim who goes out drinking isn't really the kind you're likely to learn much about Islam from. Not that I begrudge him his choice, there are many members of my family who choose to not take their religion seriously, it's up to each person to choose their own destiny. However, I doubt you'll hear much about the nature of Sharia law from them, as they really don't know much about it themselves. They're very much like most Christians today, most of whom couldn't name two apostles.
Copyright laws have nothing to do with it, I was illustrating a point and you've gotten all carried away.
As for the smear campaign, well I don't know what you'd call the repetition of blatantly false information that is pretty obviously designed to spread fear about imminent doom at the hands of the hordes of extremist Muslims. I never used the words "smear campaign", you did. If you had any Muslim friends who actually knew anything about their religion, they'd be more than willing to point out where CNN/Fox is dishing out the BS, and believe you me, it gets dished out in spades on ever terror related news story.
Again, there are no Sharia governed countries. And if the US freedoms are better than those in Saudi Arabia or Iran, only time will reveal how long that remains the case.
True.
False. Muslims have no interest what you do on your side of the ocean. Muslims (and indeed all third world nations) *do* care what western governments and corporations do when they come into a country and do things like effectively enslave the population for a token wage, overthrow democratically elected governments and replacing them with dictators that serve them, attempt to seize control of the public interest through bribery and corruption, experiment on hapless third worlders with new drugs in the name of profits, and... the list goes on. If you think that it is Muslims/Commies/some other extremist group who are the aggressors and the west are the victims, you need to get your head out of your ass and look around you.
Wait a minute, wait a minute. I just re-read your post. I'm unable to fathom the depth of the stupidity here.
So by your *exact* same analogy, Manhattan can still be a 1984 type scenario while alternatives to tollroads exist. Hey, you said it, not me buddy.
You can't compare the two things, because they are different. (logic)Dude, like, seriously, I mean, umm... Where do I start? You're saying that "you can't compare the two things, because they are different" So I can't compare a Honda to a Toyota when I'm buying a car, because they are different? I can't compare the government of the UK to the government of the US in a political studies essay because they are different? So, according to you, I can only compare two things that are *exactly* the same? Dude, like, seriously, I'm at a loss here. When people like you open your mouth, it really reminds me *why* democracy doesn't work: The average person is so stupid, he has to be led like dumb animal. The idea that your opinion (vote) is worth the same a professor of political science is abhorrent.
I think the problem is that nobody is watching the watchers, but that there are watchers at all. Law enforcement must, in any society that hopes to hold onto its soul (freedom and justice are the soul of a society) must only allow its government to be reactive in asserting its rights over the people as opposed to pre-emptive. This is what was meant when it was said that those would would trade liberty for security deserve neither.
He sent it to a distribution org, which sent it to a regional distribution center, who sent it to a community group. I don't think connections can get much more distant than that.
The point I'm making, you dolt, is that less than a month after he sent the meat (we do it once a year), he was presented with transcripts and records going back 10 years.
If you think that random searches and arbitrary detention is fine, perhaps you agree with the RIAAs proposed legislation allowing them to remotely install spyware on peoples' PCs to search for music, which essentially is an unwarranted search. On a related note, what the *hell* are you doing on Slashdot?
And you think I'd be moving out to spite my fellow citizens here or find a better life? You certainly have a twisted world view.
Thanks, CNN/Fox
Right, and the tax dollars you pay go to the US war machine, which is used to "pre-emptively" wage war and to secure foreign resources (read: steal) in the name of national security. That makes you, personally, a threat to pretty much every citizen of the third world. Double standards, anyone?
Just out of interest, do you actually know what percentage of people held in Gitmo are Muslim? I Here's another question, how many people there are actually non-Muslim US citizens? I'll let you find that out for yourself, as homework
You must have skipped reading comprehension. Oh, and "Manhattan is like 1984" is a simile, so you probably skipped most of the other English classes too.
I'll ignore your misuse of the Bolshevik term, as it just colours you as a rabid "the Commies are coming" nutjob. In fact, Islam is the *only* religion that specifies system of government that embodies democratic principles. It is the reason Muslims want unity of the church and state, because we believe that a godless state is a state in the hands of the whims of men. Modern Middle Eastern nations are *not* Islamic, they are de facto dictatorships, propped up by more powerful geopolitical bodies. The Islamic idea of "shura" is actually the foundational concept behind the corporate board meeting. Islamic government died about 100 years ago, and was replaced by a bunch of crackpot loonies sponsored by the Allied powers who won WW1 and divided up Africa and the Middle East for their own colonial purposes. Muslims do not want Saudi to be the center of the world, we want the West to stop sponsoring the Saudi government. If the US stop supporting the Saudi government and other Middle Eastern nutjobs with military hardware, we, the Muslim people, will do the rest for you.
Can I also ask you, is it possible to find a country where the majority of the country is Muslim, where the government is not either a) a de-facto dictatorship or b) a puppet regime of another, more powerful state ?
Come on, own up. You've never actually met a Muslim, have you? You're only going by the stuff you see on that TV of yours, aren't you?
Or maybe it'll get patched on the second tuesday of the month.
First of all, none of what you refer to (subjugation of women, stoning, beating etc) are the result of "Muslim" governments, they are the result of puppet governments propped up by those whose interests they serve. If you knew any Muslims, you'd know this. No Muslim alive has any respect for any of the tinpot puppet dictator regimes currently running the nations of the Middle East.
Not true
True. So? It's a particular belief system, and there is nothing in the religion (despite all the crap in the Western media) that states that others are to be coerced into that system.
I think that you don't actually know any Muslims, as you don't seem to know anything about Islam other than the flagrant misinformation that gets spouted on TV.
Tell me, what exactly is it that you think that these expansionist militant Muslims want to take away from you? You talk about tinfoil hats and ridicule the possibility that Western media is engaged in a misinformation campaign, yet you seem to have no problem believing there is an organized group of people out there plotting to kill you and your nation just because they object to your freedom.
Newsflash: It is the West that is sending out armies and waging war in their countries. Your freedoms are being taken away by your own government. The flow of wealth is going from their countries to your country. In light of these facts, I ask you this: Who do you think is doing the expansionist empire thing? Wake the hell up you fool, before it's too late.
Well, no. That's like saying the sentence "Microsoft is a monopoly" is hyperbole while alternatives to Windows exist.
There's a difference to being in view in public, and having your whereabouts noted, and retrievable for all of eternity. I find it kinda disconcerting that I could one day be confronted by police with an exhaustive list of my movements for the last 10 years.
My uncle was visited by ASIO for suspected terrorism related stuff. We're Muslim, and it's a tradition donate food to poor people. He runs a butcher, and so sent meat to a Middle Eastern based charity organization. They then sent it to a regional distribution center which then distributed it to various community groups, one of which was apparently on an Interpol watch list of some description. Despite the layer upon layer of distance, my uncle's house was raised, all computer data was copied and he was questioned (bear in mind he sent a bunch of dead sheep, not a briefcase of hard currency or blueprints for nuclear related widget thingies).
He was presented with a list of every phone call he'd made in the last 10 years or so, and every call overseas he was required to explain. We're from South Africa, and are of Indian descent. Being Indian with a bloody huge families we have, we have relatives all over the place, and so we make heaps of overseas phone calls. Eventually, they decided my uncle was harmless, and left him alone. Nonetheless, ever since then I've been gearing up to move to a country that is not in the Western Axis, as I am increasingly getting the feeling that we as Muslims just aren't welcome. Plus, I don't like the idea that someone, somewhere has access to all of my movements.
Oh, and if you're going to give me the "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear" line, please don't, I've heard it many times before and it sounds dumber each time I hear it.
Actually, you're mistaken in your fundamental assumptions. There is no difference between the IRA, the black "terrorists" in South Africa resisting apartheid (South Africa has a Terrorism Taskforce assigned to hunting "terrorists") and current day middle eastern terrorists. "Terrorism" in its current form is due to ridiculously invasive and expoitative foreign policy executed by the US in its lust for oil. If you think anything else, you're high on your own freedom propaganda.
You think Muslims hate you because of your freedom? What, you think they envy living in a society with more cameras trained on the public, a morally indefensible penal code that sends copyright violators to jail for longer than rapists and allows the government to render anyone they want to Gitmo on a whim? I don't know about them, but I sure as HELL don't envy the poor souls living in the US. Oh I'm Muslim, just so's you know.
Wow. Seriously dude, just Wow. I don't know whether to be more astonished by your arrogance, your ignorance, or your incredible ability to mix the two.