One way I would answer that is to say that alot the jobs American workers are losing are being lost to software contractors that employ people in the US using temporary work visas. Those visas, the H-1b and L-1 visas, were never intended to be used to allow massive immigration.
There were provisions written into the H1B visas that were supposed to assure that the immigrants were being paid at least the local prevailing wage. (Many times immigrants are paid well under the prevailing wage rate) The visas have a time limit of 3 years which is only supposed to be renewed once. (They were never created as a stepping stone to obtain permanent residency)
The visas were created because Congress was convinced by the IT industry' powerful lobbyist (the ITAA) that there was a shortage of IT workers. That lobby fought hard to get Congress to leave the visa cap at the inflated 165K, saying it would hurt trade if the US did not allow the free movement of professionals into the US. Thankfully, Congress allowed a sunset provision to take effect and the H1B visa cap fell to the original number of 65K.
These visas were seen as a way to supplement the US work force with people from other countries who have specialized skills. Sys admin-ing should not be considered a specialized skill! Writing in perl or C is not a specialized skill. Entry level programming is not a specialized skill. But you can look at the LCA database to see what sort of jobs are being given to H1B visa holders
Look up any big US company, and see what sort of jobs are being given to foreigners in the US. In my state, in 2002 there were 8,849 LCAs (Labor Condition Agreements) approved that brought in 16, 384 immigrants, mostly to do IT work. My state (Massachusetts) has been one of the hardest hit as far as unemployment numbers. The pool for unemployment payments is about empty. There has been a huge decline in tax revenue which has led to layoffs of teachers, doctors, and firemen. Allowing companies unchecked access to cheap labor while the US labor force languishes on unemployment is causing huge social issues, it is only a matter of time before people start connecting the real reasons for the state budget deficits.
Who is bringing in these immigrants, and for what jobs? Data Conversion Corporation is one company that receives tons of H1B approvals (they are now owned by Patni). They brought in hundreds of "Programmer I" visa holders, and paid them $34K a year! This is no where near what any entry level programmer in New England makes, it is barely enough to live on here. That totally breaks the spirit, if not the letter of the H-1B law.
That is where I have the beef. There are over a million techies out of work in this country. We have over a million foreign techies working in the US on temporary visas. That is just wrong. If you want to know why you send out hundreds of resumes for positions for which you are well-qualified, never to get even a phone interview, go search that website.
To answer your question, we cannot compete on price. Let's be honest though, there are two issues here. We can't compete for jobs in India or the US. So smuggly telling us how great the talent is in India is, and how cheap you are, is a silly argument. What happens to you when trade really opens up in China? In Russia? They are way cheaper than techies from India. And did you miss my comment that most techies realize you have to constantly train yourself? There is no more training to do!
All of us on both sides are being manipulated by that price issue. I personally feel that innovation is going to remain at a standstill until workers on both sides of this issue understand each other and demand better conditions. We should be working together to solve this issue, so you guys can get to the business of building up an IT infrastructure and provide clean water and food to everyone, and we can get back to spreadin
Are you telling me that people with 30 years of IT experience need more education?
Are you telling me people with Masters degrees in CS and EE need to be trained?
Do you mean to tell me that the workers who have had to train their replacements in order to receive severance pay were not skilled?
No one who is in high tech thinks that they are "entitled" to their job. We know that a requirement of the job is keeping up with new software, hardware, protocols, etc.
It is immoral to bring foreigner in any country to replace native workers. I find it disturbing that the companies then turn around and blame education, and basically ask for subsidies to do something with all the workers that they have displaced.
We are trained. We are experienced. We are tired of the excuses for "loosing" (talk about needing to be retrained!) our jobs to foreigners on our soil and in other countries. The problem is not lack of education or skills, the problem is that American high tech workers are not being allowed to compete for these jobs.
Let us compete. Force American companies to play by the rules when it comes to H-1B and L-1 visas. Level the playing field, and then less jobs will flow overseas.
ginaminks.com/blog
A group of us in MASS are going to see one of Sen. Kennedy's aides Monday. We have been asking people to send us their personal stories so that we can take them to the Senator.
We really wanted mostly stories from MA, but we will take anyone's story with us.
If you would like to have your story included, email it me.
www.ginaminks.com/blog
Slashdot Mirror
There were provisions written into the H1B visas that were supposed to assure that the immigrants were being paid at least the local prevailing wage. (Many times immigrants are paid well under the prevailing wage rate) The visas have a time limit of 3 years which is only supposed to be renewed once. (They were never created as a stepping stone to obtain permanent residency)
The visas were created because Congress was convinced by the IT industry' powerful lobbyist (the ITAA) that there was a shortage of IT workers. That lobby fought hard to get Congress to leave the visa cap at the inflated 165K, saying it would hurt trade if the US did not allow the free movement of professionals into the US. Thankfully, Congress allowed a sunset provision to take effect and the H1B visa cap fell to the original number of 65K.
These visas were seen as a way to supplement the US work force with people from other countries who have specialized skills. Sys admin-ing should not be considered a specialized skill! Writing in perl or C is not a specialized skill. Entry level programming is not a specialized skill. But you can look at the LCA database to see what sort of jobs are being given to H1B visa holders
Go to http://www.flcdatacenter.com/casesearch.asp
Look up any big US company, and see what sort of jobs are being given to foreigners in the US. In my state, in 2002 there were 8,849 LCAs (Labor Condition Agreements) approved that brought in 16, 384 immigrants, mostly to do IT work. My state (Massachusetts) has been one of the hardest hit as far as unemployment numbers. The pool for unemployment payments is about empty. There has been a huge decline in tax revenue which has led to layoffs of teachers, doctors, and firemen. Allowing companies unchecked access to cheap labor while the US labor force languishes on unemployment is causing huge social issues, it is only a matter of time before people start connecting the real reasons for the state budget deficits.
Who is bringing in these immigrants, and for what jobs? Data Conversion Corporation is one company that receives tons of H1B approvals (they are now owned by Patni). They brought in hundreds of "Programmer I" visa holders, and paid them $34K a year! This is no where near what any entry level programmer in New England makes, it is barely enough to live on here. That totally breaks the spirit, if not the letter of the H-1B law. That is where I have the beef. There are over a million techies out of work in this country. We have over a million foreign techies working in the US on temporary visas. That is just wrong. If you want to know why you send out hundreds of resumes for positions for which you are well-qualified, never to get even a phone interview, go search that website.
To answer your question, we cannot compete on price. Let's be honest though, there are two issues here. We can't compete for jobs in India or the US. So smuggly telling us how great the talent is in India is, and how cheap you are, is a silly argument. What happens to you when trade really opens up in China? In Russia? They are way cheaper than techies from India. And did you miss my comment that most techies realize you have to constantly train yourself? There is no more training to do!
All of us on both sides are being manipulated by that price issue. I personally feel that innovation is going to remain at a standstill until workers on both sides of this issue understand each other and demand better conditions. We should be working together to solve this issue, so you guys can get to the business of building up an IT infrastructure and provide clean water and food to everyone, and we can get back to spreadin
Are you telling me people with Masters degrees in CS and EE need to be trained?
Do you mean to tell me that the workers who have had to train their replacements in order to receive severance pay were not skilled?
No one who is in high tech thinks that they are "entitled" to their job. We know that a requirement of the job is keeping up with new software, hardware, protocols, etc.
It is immoral to bring foreigner in any country to replace native workers. I find it disturbing that the companies then turn around and blame education, and basically ask for subsidies to do something with all the workers that they have displaced.
We are trained. We are experienced. We are tired of the excuses for "loosing" (talk about needing to be retrained!) our jobs to foreigners on our soil and in other countries. The problem is not lack of education or skills, the problem is that American high tech workers are not being allowed to compete for these jobs.
Let us compete. Force American companies to play by the rules when it comes to H-1B and L-1 visas. Level the playing field, and then less jobs will flow overseas. ginaminks.com/blog
A group of us in MASS are going to see one of Sen. Kennedy's aides Monday. We have been asking people to send us their personal stories so that we can take them to the Senator. We really wanted mostly stories from MA, but we will take anyone's story with us. If you would like to have your story included, email it me. www.ginaminks.com/blog