not blunt answer: yes and...no, language DOES SLIGHTLY limit thought, because the structure of a given lang favors certain ways of thinking, pure thought is unusual or so I think(unless you have very simple thoughts: blue, sex...), You usually *think* in your language terms, be english, spanish, japanese, deutsch...etc
The most limiting part be real or perceived, appears when this thought becomes expressed, then is when the language limitations(not to mention the user's) come more heavily into play.
Language isn't merely a labeling system, vocabulary is only a brick, the cement and disposition of these components are more important
i.e. english isn't my native lang and I find hard to be very specific while using it, it always have a certain ambiguity, that my spanish doesn't, unless I'm really trying to be vague, don't ask me why, but when using german I kinda sound angered/dead-serious or very polite(and more vague) when japanese.
I can transmit the idea in several langs but it won't come across *exactly*, I believe language affects mostly the message/messenger but little the thought-process of said messenger or the receiver, and the effect on thought is more in that it facilitates some avenues of thinking.
To think about:
-Moon and sun have gender in english?
-Why moon is male in german but female in spanish?
moon=cold, serious, menacing, dark, men attributes according to germans, funny, but to spanish speakers is the other way: misterious, beatiful, soft, soothing.
-moreso spanish and german provide a gender to things(germans go an add a neutral 'das'), english doesn't, and japanese simplifies even more: no gender a no quantity, so neko could be cat,cats, either male or female hu?.
btw one-liners aren't exclusive to perl(matter of fact I wasn't thinking of perl when i wrote one-liners), I don't like one-liners 'cos thaose are qhacks, perl is useful for certain problems/situations but is not the best for *all*, OO should be as transparent as possible, if I have to "build" my OO in perl is something that I wouldn't have to do in others langs, if I need OO I use and OO lang if a need to do some quick cgi I could use perl.
Ja freedom's good but too much of a good thing...
as for the rest read post below #82764000
Yes I did RTA, but is Java OO the absolute best OO implementation?, OOP is not the solution to all. do I really want to create a full class method for a simple task, NO, "OO paradigm could have limitations", is not "could" but "HAS", OOP is a step ahead of functional programming IN certain situations, speed is not OO forte, but reuse of code/refactoring,encapsulation,etc is.
I don't really need someone telling OO has limitations, I already know and you should, a programmer should be limited by his ability to use his/her tools and not by knowing only a single lang or a single programming paradigm
What I want to point out is that:
There should be less filler in the code to keep interpreters/compilers happy, how Java or any lang rates in this point?
High level language, the more you have to type the more errors/bugs that you can make, but HLL or VHLL has its place as low level also does.
Simple logical grammar of said lang, with time even perlisms become easier to read;-) but if is readable at the very first minutes? if is already familiar? type some code and does what you expected? Intuitive is the word but is relative to one's experience.
AFAIK there's no lang that does all and does very good and is also fast, easy, multiplataform and maintenable. If so please inform me.
Besides I was answering to the proposition of using perl instead of java;-), looking ahead? fine with me, but giving Java as an exemplar OO lang is not, neither as easier to use.
Her proposition of a notch more to OO looks quite nebulous and ungraspable, I think she should research more languages.
I wasn't talking about being terse or playing golf but about very high level language, a single method does what would take dozens of lines of say c. one liners are cute 'til you read sombody's else.
Perl? brrr!! thanks but no thanks, POOP==Ruby && ruby==perl.upgarde.
perls has its place, I've tried to learn perl no big deal until you start to see "perlisms" AKA hacks, and then it becomes unreadable, I preffer perl's prettier and younger sis, Ruby, OOP done if not right at least a lot better, mmmh how to avoid bugs? typing less helps;-) a very readable sintax does too, intuitive language design and POLS avoid bugs even more.
And POOP stands for Pure Object Oriented Programming.
Email 'em my thoughts, You bet:
-------
I recently saw a post about Evangelion
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/18/144220 4&mode=thread&tid=188&tid=97
in slashdot, I've been a fan of anime for a lot of years and since I've
seen what you could do on LOTR I thought you would do some really good
with the Evangelion project, sadly that's a total no, the mechas mostly
match the anime serie BUT the characters image not only doesn't match,
their names are changed, and Rei(no ray dimwits) or Asuka look like
they're in their 30s or had a very bad life, Misato's name change to
kate, kate? Check this points please:
1)The name changing: you wouldn't believe how many people care about this, it's *not* a lil' detail, many wouldn't care to ever see this, Rei is Rei never ray, Misato can't be a lousy kate rose. you can call Shinji looser-perv thought.
2)The Graphics of the characters are abysmally UGLY, they don't match nor look remotely similar to the original, and they don't look like somebody read/view the story before hand, did you knew that Rei,Baka-Shinji and Asuka are 14 years old not 30, Misato looks particulary disgusting and here I thought Asukas was hard to stomach but your version of it makes it impossible(looks like very tired slutty-aged whore) and she's German but lived in USa for a while.
3)If you can't respect the image or names or ages(aparently) then what
about the story?, the trend shows you wouldn't follow it. For yorur info(FYI) the story makes Evangelion the cult serie, being the characters and their development the other ingredients of it, yours doesn't seem to have any of this.
I want to see Rei or Misato I'll pay for that, I'll buy it, but I don't
give a damn about this kate not ray, I want Evangelion not a crappy
americanized and bastardized protomovie that only shares the evangelion
word in the title, fix it or lose it, if You can't figure out *what* make Evangelion so popular, if You can't see the importance of the points 1-3(among others I didn't mentioned) then don't come whinning later that it's a failure, as it is now I wouldn't bother with it.
An Anime fan who likes anime, not anime like, not anime based, but true real
Slashdot Mirror
not blunt answer: yes and...no, language DOES SLIGHTLY limit thought, because the structure of a given lang favors certain ways of thinking, pure thought is unusual or so I think(unless you have very simple thoughts: blue, sex...), You usually *think* in your language terms, be english, spanish, japanese, deutsch...etc
The most limiting part be real or perceived, appears when this thought becomes expressed, then is when the language limitations(not to mention the user's) come more heavily into play.
Language isn't merely a labeling system, vocabulary is only a brick, the cement and disposition of these components are more important
i.e. english isn't my native lang and I find hard to be very specific while using it, it always have a certain ambiguity, that my spanish doesn't, unless I'm really trying to be vague, don't ask me why, but when using german I kinda sound angered/dead-serious or very polite(and more vague) when japanese.
I can transmit the idea in several langs but it won't come across *exactly*, I believe language affects mostly the message/messenger but little the thought-process of said messenger or the receiver, and the effect on thought is more in that it facilitates some avenues of thinking.
To think about:
-Moon and sun have gender in english?
-Why moon is male in german but female in spanish? moon=cold, serious, menacing, dark, men attributes according to germans, funny, but to spanish speakers is the other way: misterious, beatiful, soft, soothing.
-moreso spanish and german provide a gender to things(germans go an add a neutral 'das'), english doesn't, and japanese simplifies even more: no gender a no quantity, so neko could be cat,cats, either male or female hu?.
hu? read above "perl has its place"
btw one-liners aren't exclusive to perl(matter of fact I wasn't thinking of perl when i wrote one-liners), I don't like one-liners 'cos thaose are qhacks, perl is useful for certain problems/situations but is not the best for *all*, OO should be as transparent as possible, if I have to "build" my OO in perl is something that I wouldn't have to do in others langs, if I need OO I use and OO lang if a need to do some quick cgi I could use perl.
Ja freedom's good but too much of a good thing... as for the rest read post below #82764000
I don't really need someone telling OO has limitations, I already know and you should, a programmer should be limited by his ability to use his/her tools and not by knowing only a single lang or a single programming paradigm
What I want to point out is that:
- AFAIK there's no lang that does all and does very good and is also fast, easy, multiplataform and maintenable. If so please inform me.
Besides I was answering to the proposition of using perl instead of javaHer proposition of a notch more to OO looks quite nebulous and ungraspable, I think she should research more languages.
I wasn't talking about being terse or playing golf but about very high level language, a single method does what would take dozens of lines of say c. one liners are cute 'til you read sombody's else.
Perl? brrr!! thanks but no thanks, POOP==Ruby && ruby==perl.upgarde.
;-) a very readable sintax does too, intuitive language design and POLS avoid bugs even more.
perls has its place, I've tried to learn perl no big deal until you start to see "perlisms" AKA hacks, and then it becomes unreadable, I preffer perl's prettier and younger sis, Ruby, OOP done if not right at least a lot better, mmmh how to avoid bugs? typing less helps
And POOP stands for Pure Object Oriented Programming.
Email 'em my thoughts, You bet: ------- I recently saw a post about Evangelion http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/18/144220 4&mode=thread&tid=188&tid=97
in slashdot, I've been a fan of anime for a lot of years and since I've
seen what you could do on LOTR I thought you would do some really good
with the Evangelion project, sadly that's a total no, the mechas mostly
match the anime serie BUT the characters image not only doesn't match,
their names are changed, and Rei(no ray dimwits) or Asuka look like
they're in their 30s or had a very bad life, Misato's name change to
kate, kate? Check this points please:
1)The name changing: you wouldn't believe how many people care about this, it's *not* a lil' detail, many wouldn't care to ever see this, Rei is Rei never ray, Misato can't be a lousy kate rose. you can call Shinji looser-perv thought.
2)The Graphics of the characters are abysmally UGLY, they don't match nor look remotely similar to the original, and they don't look like somebody read/view the story before hand, did you knew that Rei,Baka-Shinji and Asuka are 14 years old not 30, Misato looks particulary disgusting and here I thought Asukas was hard to stomach but your version of it makes it impossible(looks like very tired slutty-aged whore) and she's German but lived in USa for a while.
3)If you can't respect the image or names or ages(aparently) then what
about the story?, the trend shows you wouldn't follow it. For yorur info(FYI) the story makes Evangelion the cult serie, being the characters and their development the other ingredients of it, yours doesn't seem to have any of this.
I want to see Rei or Misato I'll pay for that, I'll buy it, but I don't
give a damn about this kate not ray, I want Evangelion not a crappy
americanized and bastardized protomovie that only shares the evangelion
word in the title, fix it or lose it, if You can't figure out *what* make Evangelion so popular, if You can't see the importance of the points 1-3(among others I didn't mentioned) then don't come whinning later that it's a failure, as it is now I wouldn't bother with it.
An Anime fan who likes anime, not anime like, not anime based, but true real