I don't think you were supposed to take that line seriously;) It was merely a joke; IE claims that Ie is extendable and that MS and others actually make "extensions", and the poster is implying that the only "extensions" (s)he has ever seen are virii and malware. I know I was lolling:P
1) Some of his gripes include a wierd dialog with no text which is apparently caused by a bug in McAfee virus scanning software, and a 7-zip error dialog which is nothing to do with Mozilla.
2) Although digital signing is all well and good, not many people really care about it. The non-tech people I know of (an entire college full of them) all seem quite happy to ignore the dialog box that pops up telling them the file might be nasty and just click OK for anything they are asked. The tech geeks are all happy with md5sums, and generally from the look of Slashdot don't trust digital signing, and definitely don't expect it (most stuff on the web isn't signed). Firefox will also be including digital signing before version 2.0 apparently.
3) The default selection on dialogs that he complains of are kind of irrelevant if you are using a mouse don't you think? How mant people use the keyboard for that kind of thing? At least firefox attempts to force the user to READ the warning it presents.
4) He is either stupid, or just plain lied about not being able to find the option do disable plug-ins. Not only is the option there, but it is BETTER than the IE "option" he claims to be able to have. If I want to disable flash, I just untick flash. In IE, up until SP2 (which is not available for all OS's yet") there is no choice but to disable all extensions and introduce the other annoyances "High" security level adds, and hope it works. I can't say anything for SP2 version of IE as I don't have SP2 (I use 2003).
5) Although most extensions are unsigned, the site you are downloading it from has to be whitelisted before you can install.
6) Mirrors: if you don't trust the mirror, download the md5sum from mozilla.org. Easy, solved:) Again, nontech people will ignore the address that shows up anyway, and tech users were already going to follow my suggestion if they are smart. On the other hand, ever visited windows update? They could download whatever they like from god knows where and you would never even know, because they don't tell you! Now that does give some trust issues doesn't it
So far the only real point I see in there is that you can tell it never to ask again about running excecutables, but then again I never use the download manager to open the files, I save to desktop and then double click it the old fashioned way. I am sure many others do the same.
And even if you consider all of his points, what will show the true advantage of firefox is that their next release may just address all of these issues, wheras it took Microsoft HOW long to address them?
Actually, most non-tech users probably don't even know what a verisign signature is. I also read somewhere (in the comments on the site hosting the article iirc, and they provide a link) that firefox will have signature support before version 2.0.
Hmm, pay a couple of extra cents per disc (until they become common and EVERY disc has it) for a pretty damn good label, or pay for inkjet ink, deal with crappy inkjet smudges and for the stomper. The cost of buying the inkjet kit may end up costing more than buying these cds already. You also don't need to buy a printer just to label CDs (not everyone NEEDS to own a printer, and not everyone has a printer that can print on a CD due to the mechanical design. Paying an extra couple of dollars for a burner next time you buy one doesn't look so bad now does it?).
From the sounds of it these discs won't cost any/significantly more than "inkjet coated" CDR/DVDR anyway. Next time you buy a burner, you pay an extra couple of dollars to get an LS drive, and you pay an extra couple of cents per disc (for a short time until it becomes popular).
Outlook only seems to block the executables which the user actually WANTS to execute. Ones they don't want, well it just executes them without any warning/question doesn't it.
This may have improved since last time I dealt with it, but I am not going to risk trying again to find out.
I dont care what OS you are using, if the software you are installing is bundled with spyware then you're "infected."
That is true, but as far as I and anyone I have ever met knows, only on windows can software trivially install itself without somebody specifically requesting for some kind of software to be installed. There are exploits in other OS products which allow servers to be exploited,but the damage these applications can do is severely limited in most cases thanks to the encouragement and tools provided to have permission systems that make sense (as opposed to most windows "solutions" which are encouraged or required to use admin or system priviliges to run any kind of network service). They are also not normally enabled by default. Nor are they specifically and inextricably embedded into the OS.
So since IE was based on mosaic, IE came before Mosaic? Sounds almost Malkavian, except that Malkavians almost always make some kind of sense;)
Firefox also was the first "mainstream" tabbed browser I've ever seen, although there could have been others.
Sending a message in plain text gives the same deniability (without the privacy, but if you are busted then that is a moot point) as anyone can forge plain-text logs.
"For the average *criminal* ("geek-collar" or not), no punishment is sufficient. Criminals do not expect to get caught. They think that they will beat the system. Punishment of criminals is not primarily to deter crime. It is to prevent *that* criminal from committing crimes against the general populace during the term of their sentence"
The kind of skript kiddie you normally find running around "carding" is usually young and stupid. 3 years in prison can do wonders for their world perspective. People with a criminal mind won't be deterred, but then they won't be deterred by anything as you say.
"The truth is that property criminals are more likely to commit future crimes than are "murderers." Further, if someone is getting less than nine years for murder, then they aren't convicted of murder. They are convicted of manslaughter, negligent homicide, etc. In other words, they are convicted of recklessly causing the death of another human being. I.e. they weren't convicted of intentionally killing someone."
Fair enough, I am not an American or a lawyer so I was just going by what the general consensus is. PRobably not the smartest thing to do on/., but I don't have the time to do hours of research just to respond to a posting.
"Finally, it is worth noting that nine years is long enough that 1337 sk1|_|_z are no longer current. Three years (which is likely to be 1.5 years in actual practice--time off for good behavior) just means that one needs a refresher course. Bans against various activities after release don't work. How do you enforce them? How do you tell if that person is using a computer?"
I dont know but they seem to want to try and stop everything else.
I agree completely, it's the magnitude of the punishment compared to other, more severe, crimes that I find objection to. Jail time is definitely appropriate. 9 Years is probably a bit excessive. For the average "geek-collar" criminal, 3 years would probably sufficiently scare them away from any such action. Perhaps ban them from owning a computer or internet connection for a further year or two if it makes you feel better (hell, moving them into some jails provides them with better "hacking" facilities doesn't it? I've heard of jails with better internet facilities than some schools!).
You would also have to question whether the guy with the U-Haul of TNT would get the same punishment (for the theft component, ignoring the destruction of property charges which would be inevitable in such a case). Many people have some kind of perverse fear of computer technology. They don't understand it, and when they see it can be used as a criminal tool they go and kick up a fuss and perceive it as worse than it actually is. People can understand how a U-Haul full of TNT works. People react to computer hackers the same way they would if someone walked into the middle of town and started shooting flames from their fingertips. It's a witch hunt.
What if someone broke into your house and killed you? And got 4 years prison time? From the sounds of this discussion that is what the problem is, not that he got 9 years, but that others who do more damaging crimes get far less.
Attempted stealing of credit card info is not one of these potential dangers, however. Sure, if they were caught "hacking" into a nuclear power plant I would be worried, but stealing credit card info isn't dangerous at all. Anyone who was affected would just have to cancel the transactions when they spot them on their credit statements (which they should ALWAYS read).
I don't condone what they did, but 9 years is WAY too much when murderers are getting less (perhaps it's the murderers who should be getting more time though, rather than the crackers less). Credit card numbers have a limited value, life is something onto which a price tag cannot be placed.
Definitelty works in firefox 1.0 linux (gentoo: emerge mozilla-firefox-bin) but only on my "clean" account with no extensions installed. Couldn't get it working at all on my normal use account. Looks like single window mode fixes it;)
I think it requires certain conditions to be met, one being that pop-ups open in a new window. Many of us use tabbrowser preferences or another extension which opens popups in a tab instead. Perhaps this is why we have such difficulty getting it to work? I'm gonna try and get it to work lol
I don't think this will happen before IPv6 becomes commonplace and some sort of standardized solution for people behind routers is agreed upon. IPv6 has apparently got some features in it especially for mutlicast which I think would be a great solution, and it means the ISP's and backbones only need to do one major upgrade to fix both problems (IPv6 migration and multicasting RSS). Then of course all we need to do is make all the people using "old" RSS change over. This may be the hardest part.
And then advertisers insist that the site block all firefox users or somehting equally as dumb. Because the site has no way to exist without the advertisers (or the ever elusive generous rich guy) they have no choice. I'm sure there are ways to block it without using user agent, just noone has bothered to look yet. Let's not give them reason to.
Actually it is Latin. It stands for Curriculum Vitae. I know it gets at least mentioned in Australia, but then again we coulda learnt it from the yanks:P CV is also a lot easier to say and type than Resume (and especially easier to type considering I have no idea how to make an e with the little mark above it lol).
Slashdot Mirror
You will probably find that a lot of things which are now "cool" originated with "nerds" first ;)
I don't think you were supposed to take that line seriously ;) It was merely a joke; IE claims that Ie is extendable and that MS and others actually make "extensions", and the poster is implying that the only "extensions" (s)he has ever seen are virii and malware. I know I was lolling :P
1) Some of his gripes include a wierd dialog with no text which is apparently caused by a bug in McAfee virus scanning software, and a 7-zip error dialog which is nothing to do with Mozilla.
:) Again, nontech people will ignore the address that shows up anyway, and tech users were already going to follow my suggestion if they are smart. On the other hand, ever visited windows update? They could download whatever they like from god knows where and you would never even know, because they don't tell you! Now that does give some trust issues doesn't it
2) Although digital signing is all well and good, not many people really care about it. The non-tech people I know of (an entire college full of them) all seem quite happy to ignore the dialog box that pops up telling them the file might be nasty and just click OK for anything they are asked. The tech geeks are all happy with md5sums, and generally from the look of Slashdot don't trust digital signing, and definitely don't expect it (most stuff on the web isn't signed). Firefox will also be including digital signing before version 2.0 apparently.
3) The default selection on dialogs that he complains of are kind of irrelevant if you are using a mouse don't you think? How mant people use the keyboard for that kind of thing? At least firefox attempts to force the user to READ the warning it presents.
4) He is either stupid, or just plain lied about not being able to find the option do disable plug-ins. Not only is the option there, but it is BETTER than the IE "option" he claims to be able to have. If I want to disable flash, I just untick flash. In IE, up until SP2 (which is not available for all OS's yet") there is no choice but to disable all extensions and introduce the other annoyances "High" security level adds, and hope it works. I can't say anything for SP2 version of IE as I don't have SP2 (I use 2003).
5) Although most extensions are unsigned, the site you are downloading it from has to be whitelisted before you can install.
6) Mirrors: if you don't trust the mirror, download the md5sum from mozilla.org. Easy, solved
So far the only real point I see in there is that you can tell it never to ask again about running excecutables, but then again I never use the download manager to open the files, I save to desktop and then double click it the old fashioned way. I am sure many others do the same.
And even if you consider all of his points, what will show the true advantage of firefox is that their next release may just address all of these issues, wheras it took Microsoft HOW long to address them?
Actually, most non-tech users probably don't even know what a verisign signature is. I also read somewhere (in the comments on the site hosting the article iirc, and they provide a link) that firefox will have signature support before version 2.0.
Hmm, pay a couple of extra cents per disc (until they become common and EVERY disc has it) for a pretty damn good label, or pay for inkjet ink, deal with crappy inkjet smudges and for the stomper. The cost of buying the inkjet kit may end up costing more than buying these cds already. You also don't need to buy a printer just to label CDs (not everyone NEEDS to own a printer, and not everyone has a printer that can print on a CD due to the mechanical design. Paying an extra couple of dollars for a burner next time you buy one doesn't look so bad now does it?).
From the sounds of it these discs won't cost any/significantly more than "inkjet coated" CDR/DVDR anyway. Next time you buy a burner, you pay an extra couple of dollars to get an LS drive, and you pay an extra couple of cents per disc (for a short time until it becomes popular).
Outlook only seems to block the executables which the user actually WANTS to execute. Ones they don't want, well it just executes them without any warning/question doesn't it.
This may have improved since last time I dealt with it, but I am not going to risk trying again to find out.
I dont care what OS you are using, if the software you are installing is bundled with spyware then you're "infected."
That is true, but as far as I and anyone I have ever met knows, only on windows can software trivially install itself without somebody specifically requesting for some kind of software to be installed. There are exploits in other OS products which allow servers to be exploited,but the damage these applications can do is severely limited in most cases thanks to the encouragement and tools provided to have permission systems that make sense (as opposed to most windows "solutions" which are encouraged or required to use admin or system priviliges to run any kind of network service). They are also not normally enabled by default. Nor are they specifically and inextricably embedded into the OS.
So since IE was based on mosaic, IE came before Mosaic? Sounds almost Malkavian, except that Malkavians almost always make some kind of sense ;)
Firefox also was the first "mainstream" tabbed browser I've ever seen, although there could have been others.
It works on a "clean" profile without any extensions, some extensions unintentionally "fix" it by doing different things with popups.
Some kind of 3D modelling is also fun too :D If you are getting a little more adventurous some basic OpenGL can't hurt either.
Not tell people that you don't use your own products?
Sending a message in plain text gives the same deniability (without the privacy, but if you are busted then that is a moot point) as anyone can forge plain-text logs.
"For the average *criminal* ("geek-collar" or not), no punishment is sufficient. Criminals do not expect to get caught. They think that they will beat the system. Punishment of criminals is not primarily to deter crime. It is to prevent *that* criminal from committing crimes against the general populace during the term of their sentence" The kind of skript kiddie you normally find running around "carding" is usually young and stupid. 3 years in prison can do wonders for their world perspective. People with a criminal mind won't be deterred, but then they won't be deterred by anything as you say. "The truth is that property criminals are more likely to commit future crimes than are "murderers." Further, if someone is getting less than nine years for murder, then they aren't convicted of murder. They are convicted of manslaughter, negligent homicide, etc. In other words, they are convicted of recklessly causing the death of another human being. I.e. they weren't convicted of intentionally killing someone." Fair enough, I am not an American or a lawyer so I was just going by what the general consensus is. PRobably not the smartest thing to do on /., but I don't have the time to do hours of research just to respond to a posting.
"Finally, it is worth noting that nine years is long enough that 1337 sk1|_|_z are no longer current. Three years (which is likely to be 1.5 years in actual practice--time off for good behavior) just means that one needs a refresher course. Bans against various activities after release don't work. How do you enforce them? How do you tell if that person is using a computer?"
I dont know but they seem to want to try and stop everything else.
I agree completely, it's the magnitude of the punishment compared to other, more severe, crimes that I find objection to. Jail time is definitely appropriate. 9 Years is probably a bit excessive. For the average "geek-collar" criminal, 3 years would probably sufficiently scare them away from any such action. Perhaps ban them from owning a computer or internet connection for a further year or two if it makes you feel better (hell, moving them into some jails provides them with better "hacking" facilities doesn't it? I've heard of jails with better internet facilities than some schools!).
You would also have to question whether the guy with the U-Haul of TNT would get the same punishment (for the theft component, ignoring the destruction of property charges which would be inevitable in such a case). Many people have some kind of perverse fear of computer technology. They don't understand it, and when they see it can be used as a criminal tool they go and kick up a fuss and perceive it as worse than it actually is. People can understand how a U-Haul full of TNT works. People react to computer hackers the same way they would if someone walked into the middle of town and started shooting flames from their fingertips. It's a witch hunt.
What if someone broke into your house and killed you? And got 4 years prison time? From the sounds of this discussion that is what the problem is, not that he got 9 years, but that others who do more damaging crimes get far less.
Attempted stealing of credit card info is not one of these potential dangers, however. Sure, if they were caught "hacking" into a nuclear power plant I would be worried, but stealing credit card info isn't dangerous at all. Anyone who was affected would just have to cancel the transactions when they spot them on their credit statements (which they should ALWAYS read).
I don't condone what they did, but 9 years is WAY too much when murderers are getting less (perhaps it's the murderers who should be getting more time though, rather than the crackers less). Credit card numbers have a limited value, life is something onto which a price tag cannot be placed.
Definitelty works in firefox 1.0 linux (gentoo: emerge mozilla-firefox-bin) but only on my "clean" account with no extensions installed. Couldn't get it working at all on my normal use account. Looks like single window mode fixes it ;)
I think it requires certain conditions to be met, one being that pop-ups open in a new window. Many of us use tabbrowser preferences or another extension which opens popups in a tab instead. Perhaps this is why we have such difficulty getting it to work? I'm gonna try and get it to work lol
I don't think this will happen before IPv6 becomes commonplace and some sort of standardized solution for people behind routers is agreed upon. IPv6 has apparently got some features in it especially for mutlicast which I think would be a great solution, and it means the ISP's and backbones only need to do one major upgrade to fix both problems (IPv6 migration and multicasting RSS). Then of course all we need to do is make all the people using "old" RSS change over. This may be the hardest part.
And then advertisers insist that the site block all firefox users or somehting equally as dumb. Because the site has no way to exist without the advertisers (or the ever elusive generous rich guy) they have no choice. I'm sure there are ways to block it without using user agent, just noone has bothered to look yet. Let's not give them reason to.
Finally, someone who understands! lol
Actually it is Latin. It stands for Curriculum Vitae. I know it gets at least mentioned in Australia, but then again we coulda learnt it from the yanks :P CV is also a lot easier to say and type than Resume (and especially easier to type considering I have no idea how to make an e with the little mark above it lol).
Except perhaps the fact that giving the honest citizens drugs doesn't provide a defence for them against the dishonest citizens ;)
So the computer not booting is because of the firewall?.... right.
Aren't you free do do ANYTHING with GPL software, including sell it?