On the other hand the law was broken and we just can't let people get away with that BECAUSE it will only encourage more illegals.
I have no problem with checking documents/passports/visas at the borders, along with strict physical border security. Basically, we should have a free country with a strong perimeter around it. Yes: some "leakage" will invariably occur, but it can certainly be minimized.
I don't see how don't hire people who came to this country illegally as a dumb law...
First of all, this database could be used to punish LEGAL workers as well -- add false information? Don't like it? Ok, you can appeal, but you'll have to wait 6 months without a job in the meantime. As far as illegal immigration -- the guy (or girl) is in the US already. Do we visit the sins of the father upon the wife or children by not allowing him to work and make money?
The only way employers will care of such a database is when the government decides to enforce the law with regards to illegal workers.
But white-collar and legal workers will be more likely to be checked through the database. And in the wrong hands, the database could be used to enforce a blacklist of people not allowed to work for various reasons.
A good thing? It's not a good thing because it is completely contrary to the message of the book and the story.
I'm not saying it's a good thing as regards the message of the movie. I'm saying that it's a good thing that Americans have a strong sense of perseverance despite adversity and that they're fighters. Maybe less true today, but this spirit isn't completely gone either.
And if you are caught then it's your family who is punished....either way someone is screwed.
This didn't stop the Catholic part of my family from hiding Jews from the Nazis during WW II. And the stakes for that were much higher -- probably shot to death or sent to a camp along with your family if you got caught.
Stupid laws should be broken. Just try hard not to get caught.
What about the (admittedly hypothetical) government that is elected in 2020 that wants to prevent convicted felons from holding certain classes of jobs (more so than stigma already does?)
Feature creep, anyone? Will this database just do a yes/no answer, or will employers be able to eventually request a background report, list of previous checks and jobs, etc... If this is merely a yes/no answer, it's somewhat acceptable, but anything more is not ok. Furthermore, will this just increase the use of fake documents and stolen SS numbers? It's not like employers (especially small ones) have the time nor desire to check IDs and determine whether they're real or not.
AFAIK, I don't think any employer has asked my for a driver's license or passport anyway for my I-9 -- they just said fill it out with your SS#, etc and trusted me not to be illegal.
So, essentially, if the gubermint don't approve of you, you get to starve?
As much as I abhor illegal immigration, I might be more likely to hire someone who fails the database. Just pay cash, off the books. The guy might have a family, and I couldn't be an instrument of punishing them, honestly.
This won't affect illegal immigrants working. Employers know they aren't elligible to work, they choose to employ them not just because they are cheaper labor, but because they do better work than the unionized workers here in the states.
Mod parent up. Does anyone with half a clue think that the workers hanging around a street corner at 6am looking for construction bosses to pick them up are LEGAL? Who's kidding whom here?! They're not checking documents now, and that's a legal requirement already. They think that the existence of a database will somehow make people care any more?
Oh, and it's not that I think that people employed as spies or policemen outside the U.S. are in any way competent. Yours are just particularly arrogant, obnoxious and, unfortunately, powerful.
You're generalizing way to much here. First of all, most police are just average working-class people, trying to do their job and perhaps make their city or town a slightly better place. There's a contingent of power-hungry asses among them, maybe 10%, which makes the rest of them look bad. But this is true with any profession. As far as spies and security services: they're actually less powerful than in a lot of other countries, though they were allowed to get out of hand after 9/11. But it's not like suspects can be taken outside of FBI headquarters and shot dead without trial. And the detainment of suspects without trial for long periods is being questioned by courts already (either treat them as criminals or as POW's with POW rights; you can't have it both ways). More importantly, the security services (FBI and CIA) are subject to court rulings and oversight.
In the movie, Winston and his
lover, Julia, are gunned down after Winston defiantly shouts: "Down with Big Brother!"
Very American, actually to have the hero go out in a "blaze of glory." Not trolling here -- this is actually a good thing IMHO; the stereotypical American hero (and American in general) perseveres despite adversity.
On the contrary, while I do not agree with the argument that his current actions are violating the rights of the state (of the police if you will)
The "state" has no rights -- "rights" are given to the people of the United States, not its government. And how is publishing a blog on your life "dangerously close" to "violating the rights of the state?"
Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't seen MS-TCP/IP yet
If IPv6 becomes more popular and people route through Teredo servers owned by MS, this could actually be around 50% of what you're worried about. MS will be able to see a lot of the traffic between the IPv4 and IPv6 parts of the Internet. Scary.
Does your reality exclude anything but bigass eastern cities?
Well, having lived near one or the other of the above for most of my life, I hate to admit that, I don't have too much experience with anything else. Sure, I've travelled in the US (as well as abroad) but being in a place for a week or 2 doesn't give you the same experience as actually living there. And I assume that the US outside of "bigass cities" isn't devoid of universities[*], new bands, and radio broadcasting equipment (arguably, getting a radio license in a rural area or smaller city should be EASIER since there are fewer people vying for the same number of wavelengths).
-b.
[*]- A lot of US universities and colleges aren't anywhere near large urban areas.
Brilliant... you're telling him "gee, we have some good radio stations here in New York City, can't imagine what YOUR problem is.
Philly and Boston also have (or had when I lived there) some decent stuff. If anything, theoretically NYC should be the worst market, since you have the same limited amount of spectrum and a dense population. Only giving the NYC area as an example because I live there. If I lived in Des Moines or DC, I'd probably do the same if there were the same to do.
Even college stations are dropping music programming.
Really? The Columbia U and Seton Hall stations near here still play music, though I think Columbia is a NPR affiliate. There's also 91.1 -- not sure if it's actually a college station, but it sounds like one and plays quite a bit of interesting stuff. And the station of my alma mater (Swarthmore) down in Philly, still does, though their range is only about 1.5 miles.
There are maybe a couple of hours each week when it possible to hear some decent music on the radio here but other than that you may as well forget it.
Are there radio stations owned by small businesses or universities in the UK? Those still exist in the US. AFAIK, in the UK, there's a 100kHz step between stations rather than 200 in the US, so there should be room for *more* stations in the FM band (assuming that nearby stations are 2 steps apart as in the US).
From her point of view, she wants to retire. She has had a long and successful career, and is now ready to relax (with select appearances here and there). To her, the royalties are like a social security check...
Whatever happened to the good, old-fashioned concept of SAVING money while the going is good? Save a few $100,000, invest it, and let the money work for you. Why expect a free ride when you've blown all your money?
should pay radio stations for playing their music. After all, the radio stations are providing a service in advertising a lot of crappy but popular bands that wouldn't otherwise be popular.
We already have a bland "selection" of mostly-national radio. The stations are nominally "local", but by some miraculous coincidence, they all play the same music and the DJs all sound the same.
So don't listen to the popular stations. In NYC/NJ, we have 89.9, 89.5, 91.1, etc, that are university or independent stations and play a lot more interesting stuff than the big stations. Plus we have several classical stations. Play with the dial a bit, stop looking at the billboards, and enjoy.
Hell, maybe we would have less divorces if it were easier for people to meet more people they are compatible with rather than whatever they have available within their circle of friends and the few random people they meet in real life. I met my ex-wife this way and that worked out like shit.
Define "compatible" please. If it's sharing the same interests and being basically similar, it doesn't always work out, either. People either "click" or they don't, and the reasons for it are seldom terribly rational. You probably have as much chance of meeting someone randomly as on a dating service -- and I guess a BBS qualifies as randomly as well, since you weren't there for dating, I'd assume.
Actually, the most minimal intrusion would be to make child rape punishable by life in prison.
Forcible rape of a young child (say, I don't know, under 10 or 12) should be a capital offense, especially if there's a pattern of it. If they're dead, they can't re-offend...
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I have no problem with checking documents/passports/visas at the borders, along with strict physical border security. Basically, we should have a free country with a strong perimeter around it. Yes: some "leakage" will invariably occur, but it can certainly be minimized.
-b.
First of all, this database could be used to punish LEGAL workers as well -- add false information? Don't like it? Ok, you can appeal, but you'll have to wait 6 months without a job in the meantime. As far as illegal immigration -- the guy (or girl) is in the US already. Do we visit the sins of the father upon the wife or children by not allowing him to work and make money?
-b.
Am I supposed to "get it"? *confused*
But white-collar and legal workers will be more likely to be checked through the database. And in the wrong hands, the database could be used to enforce a blacklist of people not allowed to work for various reasons.
-b.
I'm not saying it's a good thing as regards the message of the movie. I'm saying that it's a good thing that Americans have a strong sense of perseverance despite adversity and that they're fighters. Maybe less true today, but this spirit isn't completely gone either.
-b.
This didn't stop the Catholic part of my family from hiding Jews from the Nazis during WW II. And the stakes for that were much higher -- probably shot to death or sent to a camp along with your family if you got caught.
Stupid laws should be broken. Just try hard not to get caught.
-b.
Feature creep, anyone? Will this database just do a yes/no answer, or will employers be able to eventually request a background report, list of previous checks and jobs, etc... If this is merely a yes/no answer, it's somewhat acceptable, but anything more is not ok. Furthermore, will this just increase the use of fake documents and stolen SS numbers? It's not like employers (especially small ones) have the time nor desire to check IDs and determine whether they're real or not.
AFAIK, I don't think any employer has asked my for a driver's license or passport anyway for my I-9 -- they just said fill it out with your SS#, etc and trusted me not to be illegal.
-b.
If that ever happened, it would be time to start voting with the rope and lamppost rather than with the ballot box.
-b.
As much as I abhor illegal immigration, I might be more likely to hire someone who fails the database. Just pay cash, off the books. The guy might have a family, and I couldn't be an instrument of punishing them, honestly.
-b.
Mod parent up. Does anyone with half a clue think that the workers hanging around a street corner at 6am looking for construction bosses to pick them up are LEGAL? Who's kidding whom here?! They're not checking documents now, and that's a legal requirement already. They think that the existence of a database will somehow make people care any more?
-b.
You're generalizing way to much here. First of all, most police are just average working-class people, trying to do their job and perhaps make their city or town a slightly better place. There's a contingent of power-hungry asses among them, maybe 10%, which makes the rest of them look bad. But this is true with any profession. As far as spies and security services: they're actually less powerful than in a lot of other countries, though they were allowed to get out of hand after 9/11. But it's not like suspects can be taken outside of FBI headquarters and shot dead without trial. And the detainment of suspects without trial for long periods is being questioned by courts already (either treat them as criminals or as POW's with POW rights; you can't have it both ways). More importantly, the security services (FBI and CIA) are subject to court rulings and oversight.
-b.
Very American, actually to have the hero go out in a "blaze of glory." Not trolling here -- this is actually a good thing IMHO; the stereotypical American hero (and American in general) perseveres despite adversity.
-b.
The "state" has no rights -- "rights" are given to the people of the United States, not its government. And how is publishing a blog on your life "dangerously close" to "violating the rights of the state?"
-b.
If IPv6 becomes more popular and people route through Teredo servers owned by MS, this could actually be around 50% of what you're worried about. MS will be able to see a lot of the traffic between the IPv4 and IPv6 parts of the Internet. Scary.
-b.
Well, having lived near one or the other of the above for most of my life, I hate to admit that, I don't have too much experience with anything else. Sure, I've travelled in the US (as well as abroad) but being in a place for a week or 2 doesn't give you the same experience as actually living there. And I assume that the US outside of "bigass cities" isn't devoid of universities[*], new bands, and radio broadcasting equipment (arguably, getting a radio license in a rural area or smaller city should be EASIER since there are fewer people vying for the same number of wavelengths).
-b.
[*]- A lot of US universities and colleges aren't anywhere near large urban areas.
Heh -- interesting. Apparently "pay for play" is actually illegal in the US unless it's treated as a commercial on the radio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payola
-b.
Philly and Boston also have (or had when I lived there) some decent stuff. If anything, theoretically NYC should be the worst market, since you have the same limited amount of spectrum and a dense population. Only giving the NYC area as an example because I live there. If I lived in Des Moines or DC, I'd probably do the same if there were the same to do.
-b.
Really? The Columbia U and Seton Hall stations near here still play music, though I think Columbia is a NPR affiliate. There's also 91.1 -- not sure if it's actually a college station, but it sounds like one and plays quite a bit of interesting stuff. And the station of my alma mater (Swarthmore) down in Philly, still does, though their range is only about 1.5 miles.
-b.
Are there radio stations owned by small businesses or universities in the UK? Those still exist in the US. AFAIK, in the UK, there's a 100kHz step between stations rather than 200 in the US, so there should be room for *more* stations in the FM band (assuming that nearby stations are 2 steps apart as in the US).
-b.
Whatever happened to the good, old-fashioned concept of SAVING money while the going is good? Save a few $100,000, invest it, and let the money work for you. Why expect a free ride when you've blown all your money?
-b.
-b.
So don't listen to the popular stations. In NYC/NJ, we have 89.9, 89.5, 91.1, etc, that are university or independent stations and play a lot more interesting stuff than the big stations. Plus we have several classical stations. Play with the dial a bit, stop looking at the billboards, and enjoy.
-b.
Define "compatible" please. If it's sharing the same interests and being basically similar, it doesn't always work out, either. People either "click" or they don't, and the reasons for it are seldom terribly rational. You probably have as much chance of meeting someone randomly as on a dating service -- and I guess a BBS qualifies as randomly as well, since you weren't there for dating, I'd assume.
-b.
Forcible rape of a young child (say, I don't know, under 10 or 12) should be a capital offense, especially if there's a pattern of it. If they're dead, they can't re-offend...
-b.
That can be true in real life. It's not like everyone does thorough background checks on people that they date.
-b.