1. Don't give them money to buy games with. 2. See what programs are installed on the system. 3. Actually pay attention what your damn kid is doing. 4. Yes that means you need to actually act like a parent. 5. No X is not an excuse. You can live on less income, watch less tv and have less shinny things. It's your kid for god's sake, you're supposed to make some sacrifices for him or her.
Legally minors can drink in the presence of their parents, in most places at least. In many cultures it is abnormal for minors to NOT drink. It is likely that a very low drinking age is actually safer than a high one as it prevents the horrid binge drinking problem when people turn 21 (or go to college).
Their search engine sucked (at least until Google came along). Well given that Yahoo didn't have it's own search engine until after google came along it was likely no worse than other search engines of the period. It's sort of stupid to claim something sucks because all the options at the time were bad and something better came along later. Then again based on your post I guess stupid probably is a good description of you in general.
Depending on the license of the software you use there are different requirements. The GPL2 for example only says that you need to, essentially, include source code when you distribute the software. The BSD only says that you need to include credit including the BSD license somewhere but not the source code itself.
Neither says that you need to give any modifications to any third party unless you are already giving them your software. So for internal usage there is no requirements. Likewise users of a software who do not get the software itself (ie: web server for example) likewise do not need to get the source code. You can even sell GPL software for exorbitant amounts but it's simply rather pointless as you need to give the people you sell to the source code and they are free to re-distribute the software to others for free.
It is very common for companies to make internal modifications to open source software they run and they are in no way required to release them to anyone else.
So, not only are you an asshole, you are an idiot as well. I've never seen a firewall have a "random traffic" category. And my implication was obviously that "encrypted" traffic would be seen, recorded as such, and recognized as circumvention by any parent capable of setting up such a firewall. No firewall logs anything as "successful circumvention," which would be necessary for your assumptions about my statements to be true. No I'm assuming that a form of traffic is used which has both approved and non-approved uses. The excuse you use depends on the context and your options. A simply one is that you're helping your friend with a website and they have their own linux server. Another one is that you're trying to learn linux or are doing it for a class or personal project of some kind.
Sure you can get successively more draconian but then you get to the point where your child finds other means. If they as a result of trying to bypass your restrictions find other link-minded friends at school then you have no more control. Those friends can even provide hard media copies of material you do not approve off, digital or otherwise. Heck if I wanted porn in middle school I'd have simply asked a specific friend of mine (this is why you don't encourage, indirectly, your kids to make shady friends) to bring some magazines in.
I'm simply pointing out that there are ways around everything and assuming your children are idiots (and so are their friends) is not always valid. If your kids are idiots then really it doesn't matter but if they're not an arms race is something that everyone may suffer as a result of. At worst they'll find sources you have no control or knowledge off (my high school had unlimited internet access in it for example) which is much worse than letting them have some freedom. Actually at worst they'll go to college and the new found freedom will ruin them.
Respect and fear are not the same. You seem to think they are. We're wired to be social creatures and if properly raised the mere upsetting of a loved one (who you love and later respect) is punishment in of itself.
My parents failed because they thought punishment could induce respect on its own. Rather over many years it eroded that respect to almost nothing.
You realize that you're fucked up, right? I'm fucked up because I was a rebellious teenager and am telling people of the possible consequences of their actions?
I'm not saying children should act that way but that they do or can. A parent's job is to prevent that if possible and it may bet their own fault (thus avoidable) that their kids become monsters.
My childhood is an example of how you should not raise a kid and how a child will act if you do raise them improperly. Good intentions are not enough to raise a child on.
Nonetheless that doesn't mean I'm fucked up, not more so than many other people I've met at least who were "model children." Welcome to life, you grow up and you change but that doesn't mean you forget.
Yeah, I can tell you're reeeeeeaaaaalllllyyyy well adjusted. --rolls eyes-- I am, more so than many other people I know. Once I no longer had to deal with my parents I mostly went back to a decently normal state. That is my point, if your children start reacting against your actions then your actions may very well be the wrong ones. If you always blame your children for what is happening the result will not be pretty.
It's really that simple. No friends, no privacy, no computer. It sounds easy in theory, in practice it fails horribly. After all do you want your child to be a friend-less socially inept blob of flesh? Is them not going on the internet worth that to you?
Most importantly why would I do things in the open. I'd apologize, cry and claim to reform every time as that is the logical thing to do. You have no way of knowing if I did or did not until you catch me again. That requires you to reinstate some of my privileges until then or you can't know if I did something or not.
You are making very irrational assumptions about how the world, parents and children act.
Anyway, most of your B.S. above is mere posturing. I highly doubt you're the badass rebel you're trying to make us think you are. No I really was a horrid child near the end of high school, I feel sorry for my parents in a way. I wasn't irrational mind you, I knew their limits and I used that to my advantage.
It's a shame your parents gave up on you. Why would they have given up, it's their pushing that gave me mental hell to begin with. We get along quite nicely now that we got all our issues out in the open after I went to college.
Hopefully you'll figure things out someday. What exactly am I supposed to figure out? I reacted to excessive forces from my parents by lashing out, simple fact and it would have been much better if it had never come to that. Took me some time to regain my mental balance but no logner being a teenager does wonder for you.
Of course, after all why bother being a proper parent from the start when you can just use magic solution once your own failures blow up in your face. I've seen that done more than once which is sad, likely to cause more damage in the long run than not doing anything for some children.
My parents weren't exactly bad parents, they cared too much actually, but they had their faults which over time magnified problems to absurd degrees. There was no reason for that to happen and the reason was actually that my parents tried too hard in a way. I didn't rebel out of lack of attention but rather out of being pushed too much. I've seen others challenge their parents for different reasons and usually there is a good psychological reason for it. Once you become an actual enemy to your children things can get nasty depending on the child's disposition and environment. Being intensely paranoid and fearful of ones parents (if they react so harshly over minor infractions just image what they'd do over a big ones) only makes you less likely to talk to them and more likely to hide everything from them.
If it's on allow and log, as above, then your traffic will be logged as a circumvention of the system. No it gets logged as encrypted traffic or random traffic. The point is to make it impossible to tell circumvention from legitimate uses of which there are many for such traffic.
As for me being spoiled *shrug*. If you push or restrict intelligent people for no good reason then they will try to get around it. Anyway as a teenager I rebelled for other reasons, my parents weren't silly enough to restrict my internet access if I did my school work (and other such things).
all i have to say is good luck in the real world. the real world doesn't like spoiled brats like yourself. The real world seems to be working out quite nicely for me right now. Being a teenager is not a very fun time for some.
eventually thinking you have a good answer to everything will catch up to you. I'm not the one who started saying that they have the solution to a problem. I'm simply pointing out that it can fail miserably sometimes and the parent may not even be aware that it does.
i'm too busy to sit here and waste my time picking out all the holes in your arguments, but believe me, there are plenty of holes. I'm not arguing for anything, just saying how I would have acted as a teenager. It's something you want to avoid your kids ever doing btw.
I did get the shit beat out of me but after a while I got used to it in a way. Too much corporal punishment leads to odd mental issues like that. The problem was that I saw the limits of what my parents were capable off, I realized it could never get worse and I'd have gotten numb to how things were.
Expect you assume parents don't love their child at all. Likewise you assume the child won't go to the police. I guess if you want to never see your kid again that is an option. Not great parenting imho.
easy. computer goes in family room with monitor facing people. it gets locked up when you can't be watched. You assume the internet is the worst thing that can happen to me. Some of my friends were much worse, guess who I would hang out more with as a result of your actions?
you get no car, NYC baby, almost no one in high school has or needs a car. Actually since my friends all lived far away we didn't hang out too much after school anyway.
you don't get to go visit friends, etc, etc, etc. your life eventually just starts to suck because you've proven you can't be trusted. I'd have stayed in school longer and hung out with my friends. I came back long before my parents and I came back on my own. You can't stop me from leaving the house and you can't force me to come home save for calling the police.
You still assume I have a reason to listen to you other than my own temporary convienience.
I'd also like to add that at worst I'd have simply stayed in school longer, many clubs were available to me. My parents couldn't stop me from doing that as I had perfectly legitimate reasons for staying after school (I was taking college classes in the evening).
Lets just say that it would not have been in my parent's interest to let me spend too much time with certain friends of mine. Nothing on the internet could have done anywhere near as much damage as talking or interacting with them for a while. Restricting your child excessively just makes them more likely to find such people which is worse than any other outcome. I got lucky in some ways as those friends of mien were nonetheless tame by most standards but I could have just as likely been unlucky.
I'm 22 and I'm upper middle class by income. My parents tried to control me more than they should have. Being a rational and intelligent person I resisted. I grew up fine despite that, would have grown up better if they hadn't tried to restrict me but whatever.
I wasn't spoiled or rebellious or stupid or any of that. If I had been I would have become a drug addict or something but I was rational and intelligent instead.
Sounds like your parents (well, probably parent) didn't care about you. If one of my kids told me to "f-off" they wouldn't be leaving their room for a month. My parents cared a lot about me, it's just that I simply am able to deal with almost anything. You ground me? Okay, I can amuse myself within my room for a month without any problems.
Also, if you're doing the router thing, it's also trivial to disallow SSH tunnels, and DNS requests would certainly be logged. I'm sure you think you're pretty 31337, but there actually are people smarter than you. Sure and at some point you'll be blocking me legitimate usage. Hell you can tunnel using ping even. DNS says little when as I said the other server looks perfectly legitimate.
Remember that the internet is not the world. At worst you can get things from friends, likely things much worse than what you can find on the internet.
You sound like you were a spoiled brat whose parents needed to give a serious attitude adjustment. No see I'm the opposite of spoiled, I care little for most things and physical objects. A spoiled brat you can fight by taking away their toys yet I had no toys I wouldn't accept the loss of within a week.
See that's what my parents tried, all it did was teach me that parents have a limit and all you need to do is be able to survive past it. You apparently are just like them and don't realize that if you keep challenging your child they will learn how little power you really have.
I would've taken away your computer for a couple of weeks if you spoke to me like that And that would have done what? I do wonder how you'd expect me to do my homework. I can be amused by starting at a blank wall to be honest.
(or if you bypassed my measures), How would you know, I'd simply keep trying till you couldn't see I was bypassing them.
probably along with your cellphone, Go right ahead, never used the thing expect to call my parents anyway.
your ipod and all your music. Never listen to music.
And if you still had a bad attitude, I'd take your door off the hinges. Okay, so I'd be down one door.
If you STILL didn't get it, I'd come to school with you and follow you around, making sure your friends saw you, until you begged for mercy. Well enjoy losing your job then. See point above about that simply teaching me to lie better and hide my activities better.
It takes me all of 10 seconds to set up an ssh tunnel, 10 minutes if I need to download cygwin first. Even in high school I had a bunch of friends who had ssh servers I could possibly use for this (which also would have had a convenient game on it in case you questioned why I was on it) I could have also used the internet connection at school or at a friends house or stolen wi-fi from a neighbor. Hell there are even likely web based ssh encrypted proxies. I could have run one off my high school web account (or rather someone else's, the passwd file was widely distributed) if I really wanted to.
In other words if I was being monitored by my parents I'd have simply found a way to make sure they can't see what I'm doing. At worst I'd have told them to f-off and challenged them to do something about it.
So when in doubt, you trust the paper. Fine, then what is the point of the electronic vote tally? You won't know if there is a problem until you see a discrepency, and the only way you'd see a discrepency is if the paper tally is not equal to the electronic tally, which means you have to count the paper ballots every time. No you count a random but large set of the paper votes. If there is a discrepancy then you count all the votes. Furthermore you also count another (smaller) random set of paper votes by hand (not machine) to make sure the counting machine is not flawed. Possibly all counting is done by two machines from two unrelated companies as well to prevent errors. If someone detected fraud in another manner (which happens, contrary to what some geeks may think machines do not equal the world) then a full recount is also done.
Since the paper ballots are trivially machine readable the recounting will go rather quickly although some would need to be verified by hand as well (for sake of quality).
If the election is very close, and most are not, then you may also wish to do a full recount. Again this would only need to be done for a small subset of the elections or districts.
The point I am trying to make, is that you creating two records, and if/when a discrepency is detected, which do you trust? You investigate why there is a discrepancy. If the result changes the election and no reason can be found to disqualify one set of results you trust NEITHER. You hold a new election.
Well I am lazy and I admit to the piracy. As for cheap, well I buy DVDs if/when they are available.
Ethics is a more interesting question, after all legality and ethics are not equivalent. I try to make sure that I pay the owners for what I view, which is a lot more than I can say about all the people who skip ads with tivo or the like.
Slashdot Mirror
WTF are you smoking, yes they do:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=filetype%3Aodt+the&btnG=Search
1. You're redundant: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=300601&cid=20646489
2. You have no idea what you're talking about: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=300601&cid=20646837
1. Don't give them money to buy games with.
2. See what programs are installed on the system.
3. Actually pay attention what your damn kid is doing.
4. Yes that means you need to actually act like a parent.
5. No X is not an excuse. You can live on less income, watch less tv and have less shinny things. It's your kid for god's sake, you're supposed to make some sacrifices for him or her.
Legally minors can drink in the presence of their parents, in most places at least. In many cultures it is abnormal for minors to NOT drink. It is likely that a very low drinking age is actually safer than a high one as it prevents the horrid binge drinking problem when people turn 21 (or go to college).
Depending on the license of the software you use there are different requirements. The GPL2 for example only says that you need to, essentially, include source code when you distribute the software. The BSD only says that you need to include credit including the BSD license somewhere but not the source code itself.
Neither says that you need to give any modifications to any third party unless you are already giving them your software. So for internal usage there is no requirements. Likewise users of a software who do not get the software itself (ie: web server for example) likewise do not need to get the source code. You can even sell GPL software for exorbitant amounts but it's simply rather pointless as you need to give the people you sell to the source code and they are free to re-distribute the software to others for free.
It is very common for companies to make internal modifications to open source software they run and they are in no way required to release them to anyone else.
Sure you can get successively more draconian but then you get to the point where your child finds other means. If they as a result of trying to bypass your restrictions find other link-minded friends at school then you have no more control. Those friends can even provide hard media copies of material you do not approve off, digital or otherwise. Heck if I wanted porn in middle school I'd have simply asked a specific friend of mine (this is why you don't encourage, indirectly, your kids to make shady friends) to bring some magazines in.
I'm simply pointing out that there are ways around everything and assuming your children are idiots (and so are their friends) is not always valid. If your kids are idiots then really it doesn't matter but if they're not an arms race is something that everyone may suffer as a result of. At worst they'll find sources you have no control or knowledge off (my high school had unlimited internet access in it for example) which is much worse than letting them have some freedom. Actually at worst they'll go to college and the new found freedom will ruin them.
Respect and fear are not the same. You seem to think they are. We're wired to be social creatures and if properly raised the mere upsetting of a loved one (who you love and later respect) is punishment in of itself.
My parents failed because they thought punishment could induce respect on its own. Rather over many years it eroded that respect to almost nothing.
I'm not saying children should act that way but that they do or can. A parent's job is to prevent that if possible and it may bet their own fault (thus avoidable) that their kids become monsters.
My childhood is an example of how you should not raise a kid and how a child will act if you do raise them improperly. Good intentions are not enough to raise a child on.
Nonetheless that doesn't mean I'm fucked up, not more so than many other people I've met at least who were "model children." Welcome to life, you grow up and you change but that doesn't mean you forget.
Most importantly why would I do things in the open. I'd apologize, cry and claim to reform every time as that is the logical thing to do. You have no way of knowing if I did or did not until you catch me again. That requires you to reinstate some of my privileges until then or you can't know if I did something or not.
You are making very irrational assumptions about how the world, parents and children act. Anyway, most of your B.S. above is mere posturing. I highly doubt you're the badass rebel you're trying to make us think you are. No I really was a horrid child near the end of high school, I feel sorry for my parents in a way. I wasn't irrational mind you, I knew their limits and I used that to my advantage. It's a shame your parents gave up on you. Why would they have given up, it's their pushing that gave me mental hell to begin with. We get along quite nicely now that we got all our issues out in the open after I went to college. Hopefully you'll figure things out someday. What exactly am I supposed to figure out? I reacted to excessive forces from my parents by lashing out, simple fact and it would have been much better if it had never come to that. Took me some time to regain my mental balance but no logner being a teenager does wonder for you.
Of course, after all why bother being a proper parent from the start when you can just use magic solution once your own failures blow up in your face. I've seen that done more than once which is sad, likely to cause more damage in the long run than not doing anything for some children.
My parents weren't exactly bad parents, they cared too much actually, but they had their faults which over time magnified problems to absurd degrees. There was no reason for that to happen and the reason was actually that my parents tried too hard in a way. I didn't rebel out of lack of attention but rather out of being pushed too much. I've seen others challenge their parents for different reasons and usually there is a good psychological reason for it. Once you become an actual enemy to your children things can get nasty depending on the child's disposition and environment. Being intensely paranoid and fearful of ones parents (if they react so harshly over minor infractions just image what they'd do over a big ones) only makes you less likely to talk to them and more likely to hide everything from them.
As for me being spoiled *shrug*. If you push or restrict intelligent people for no good reason then they will try to get around it. Anyway as a teenager I rebelled for other reasons, my parents weren't silly enough to restrict my internet access if I did my school work (and other such things).
I did get the shit beat out of me but after a while I got used to it in a way. Too much corporal punishment leads to odd mental issues like that. The problem was that I saw the limits of what my parents were capable off, I realized it could never get worse and I'd have gotten numb to how things were.
Silly about what?
I'm simply saying how I acted as a teenager, I don't see why I'd find a fact to be silly in the future.
Expect you assume parents don't love their child at all. Likewise you assume the child won't go to the police. I guess if you want to never see your kid again that is an option. Not great parenting imho.
You still assume I have a reason to listen to you other than my own temporary convienience.
I'd also like to add that at worst I'd have simply stayed in school longer, many clubs were available to me. My parents couldn't stop me from doing that as I had perfectly legitimate reasons for staying after school (I was taking college classes in the evening).
Lets just say that it would not have been in my parent's interest to let me spend too much time with certain friends of mine. Nothing on the internet could have done anywhere near as much damage as talking or interacting with them for a while. Restricting your child excessively just makes them more likely to find such people which is worse than any other outcome. I got lucky in some ways as those friends of mien were nonetheless tame by most standards but I could have just as likely been unlucky.
I'm 22 and I'm upper middle class by income. My parents tried to control me more than they should have. Being a rational and intelligent person I resisted. I grew up fine despite that, would have grown up better if they hadn't tried to restrict me but whatever.
I wasn't spoiled or rebellious or stupid or any of that. If I had been I would have become a drug addict or something but I was rational and intelligent instead.
Remember that the internet is not the world. At worst you can get things from friends, likely things much worse than what you can find on the internet.
See that's what my parents tried, all it did was teach me that parents have a limit and all you need to do is be able to survive past it. You apparently are just like them and don't realize that if you keep challenging your child they will learn how little power you really have. I would've taken away your computer for a couple of weeks if you spoke to me like that And that would have done what? I do wonder how you'd expect me to do my homework. I can be amused by starting at a blank wall to be honest. (or if you bypassed my measures), How would you know, I'd simply keep trying till you couldn't see I was bypassing them. probably along with your cellphone, Go right ahead, never used the thing expect to call my parents anyway. your ipod and all your music. Never listen to music. And if you still had a bad attitude, I'd take your door off the hinges. Okay, so I'd be down one door. If you STILL didn't get it, I'd come to school with you and follow you around, making sure your friends saw you, until you begged for mercy. Well enjoy losing your job then. See point above about that simply teaching me to lie better and hide my activities better.
It takes me all of 10 seconds to set up an ssh tunnel, 10 minutes if I need to download cygwin first. Even in high school I had a bunch of friends who had ssh servers I could possibly use for this (which also would have had a convenient game on it in case you questioned why I was on it) I could have also used the internet connection at school or at a friends house or stolen wi-fi from a neighbor. Hell there are even likely web based ssh encrypted proxies. I could have run one off my high school web account (or rather someone else's, the passwd file was widely distributed) if I really wanted to.
In other words if I was being monitored by my parents I'd have simply found a way to make sure they can't see what I'm doing. At worst I'd have told them to f-off and challenged them to do something about it.
Since the paper ballots are trivially machine readable the recounting will go rather quickly although some would need to be verified by hand as well (for sake of quality).
If the election is very close, and most are not, then you may also wish to do a full recount. Again this would only need to be done for a small subset of the elections or districts. The point I am trying to make, is that you creating two records, and if/when a discrepency is detected, which do you trust? You investigate why there is a discrepancy. If the result changes the election and no reason can be found to disqualify one set of results you trust NEITHER. You hold a new election.
The third system is called having a new election that is overseen more closely.
Well I am lazy and I admit to the piracy. As for cheap, well I buy DVDs if/when they are available.
Ethics is a more interesting question, after all legality and ethics are not equivalent. I try to make sure that I pay the owners for what I view, which is a lot more than I can say about all the people who skip ads with tivo or the like.