i saw him speak at hope2k in NYC, with Bernie S. while bernie was actually quite professional with information, shapeshifter was quite unprofessional and obviously enjoying the attention.
he seemed itching to get arrested, and well, he got it. so why is everyone surprised?
in fact they do generate a lot of heat. we had a cluster of 14 P120's and a single P133 with a Fore ASX 1000 switch generating a sizable heat dent that would actually shut it down (crash) in the summertime. we wound up moving it to a server room which was very well cooled (about 60 degrees F) and things improved there.
i know that the HIVE also had to cool things very forcibly (air in the bottom and drawn out the top of the racks). heat is definitely a big problem.
what's amusing, ken, is you provided the nicest set of links and yet the oh-so-fun slashdot moderation method only ranks you as a one. i think there's an issue that needs to be reviewed here, and that's moderation of scoring of relavent posts. i raise my ticker to usually 2 these days, but i stopped -- i was missing too many good posts. i would have missed ken's!
ken, i hope all is well, i haven't seen you around the seen much since packetstorm's uh... transition last year.
looks like i may be one of the first to offer a useful post.
SGI is working on getting C2 grade Linux out there. they hope to have it working sometime this year. B2 will follow 18 months or so from that. Orange Linux is the project's name.
the NSA and Secure Computing are working on a C2 grade Linux as well, with source of the stuff to be made publically available due to GPL licensing.
some links: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/000113/ca_secure__1. html http://slashdot.org/articles/00/01/13/1029206.sh tml http://lwn.net/1999/1118/a/sgilinuxuniv.html
so, i'm looking at this and knowing that a lot of corporations will not migrate production, mission critical pieces of equipment to Win2k without first seeing similar companies do so and experience the pains. just sound business sense. so, why don't they do their own in house certification once MS denies MSCE tests for NT4.0? they'll rest comfortably knowing their staff is trained and competant... and a lot of those example tests can lead to similar exams. *shrug* just an idea...
i really feel like i have to comment on this. i'm on several key networking mailing lists, and one of those has repeated discussions about napster. the issue is more bandwidth than anything. our university has a fat pipe to the world, but a lot of places have only a T1 or not much more. when you consider that the traffic from napster consumes over 30% of that pipe in most circumtances, you'll quickly realize that there's not much room for anything else, be it pr0n, mail, w4r3z trafficking or whatnot.
whine all you want. really, go ahead and do it. "but this is infringing on our freedoms!" the reality is you're hogging bandwidth. and until you pay for that bandwidth, please don't talk about freedoms being infringed upon.
here's a typical school's item on why they banned napster: http://www.grinnell.edu/resnet/announc e.html... while copyright issues are of course taken seriously, it's *bandwidth* folks...
seriously, how long did you guys think it was worth it to keep the links to the documents *buried* on the pages?
and as for the quality of the documents, well, i've written a few that i should submit, but honestly, i doubt i will. in general there has got to be something of a standard for document quality. too many of the HOW-TO's are so poorly written.. blech.
thanks for the site changes, and thanks for being less exclusive about the document formatting.
wow... it's kind of neat that this is hitting the big time. not that i like seeing sites i use like eBay, CNN and whatnot being DoS'd, but that it's going to force the issue. recall SYN flooding... one of those big bullshit DoS attacks that got the industry changed. now, it's pretty easy to help stop these distributed tools. all we have to do is implement some good routing practices in the core and between networks and we'd be set. implement SYN cookies for *any* type of packet being throttled in above the baseline of activity, ie ICMP's, UDP's, SYN-ACK's, even from multiple IP's. routers could simply issue cookies, a'la SYN cookies, and see if this is a valid stream. works for SYN's, should work for anything with some tinkering. but go back in Phrack (issue 48 or so, at www.phrack.com) and see about SYN flooding. same issues...
Molecular Microbiology Group, School of Biological Sciences, University of Surrey, Guildford, UK. j.al-khalili@surrey.ac.uk
The principle that mutations occur randomly with respect to the direction of evolutionary change has been challenged by the phenomenon of adaptive mutations. There is currently no entirely satisfactory theory to account for how a cell can selectively mutate certain genes in response to environmental signals. However, spontaneous mutations are initiated by quantum events such as the shift of a single proton (hydrogen atom) from one site to an adjacent one. We consider here the wave function describing the quantum state of the genome as being in a coherent linear superposition of states describing both the shifted and unshifted protons. Quantum coherence will be destroyed by the process of decoherence in which the quantum state of the genome becomes correlated (entangled) with its surroundings. Using a very simple model we estimate the decoherence times for protons within DNA and demonstrate that quantum coherence may be maintained for biological time-scales. Interaction of the coherent genome wave function with environments containing utilisable substrate will induce rapid decoherence and thereby destroy the superposition of mutant and non-mutant states. We show that this accelerated rate of decoherence may significantly increase the rate of production of the mutated state.
a) less than saavy users. download some untrustworthy source or kernel source or even some binaries and voila, point of infection.
b) distro poisoning, easier said than done (remember tcp_wrappers got infected, too)
c) worm style incidents using poorly known holes in major distros (ie Linuxconf vulnerabilities, Apache holes, etc..).
it's a lot easier than some of you may think. a scenario for you: mirror mirror.example.com gets rooted and trojans of key RPM's of the latest RedHat distro are plced in. MD5 sums are altered and the whole thing loks legit. once installed, the packages (gcc, a kernel module, and a few access trojans like telentd or sshd) lie in wait. the kernel module keeps the user from seeing the problem, gcc's trojan always keeps trojans in the system, and the listening entry points are there and well hidden. bingo, you have a problem. say, in a TFN or Trin00 manner you manipulate the systems to rm -rf/* & all at once.:) that's a pretty easy situation to execute.
trust is a magical thing to abuse. and users' trust is getting greater and greater. how many times has the schlub in the cubicle next to you downloaded some spiffy screensaver from the net or run some "executable" from their email? all too often...:)
bear in mind that thompson build a cc trojaned to allow him to log in specially on any box using his cc, which also built it's trojan propogating systems in, too.:) thompson's not malicious, but some people are.
ok, first up, we're faster than most (OC-3's to the desktop, 155 Mbps ATM... this is CWRU). but that's moot dick waving.
but seriously, i can see a few benefits: first, as a researacher, i don't have to live with crappy bandwidth hogging up my download times for articles, experimental work etc. secondly, as astudent, you get to play with some neat technology and raid the Inet for information (like free Cisco books!) and pilfer all you want. thirdly, if you'd like, you can set up a nice server and have some fun.
yeah, a lot of the network around here is used to stream video (ie pr0n), mp3's or whatnot, but those are practical skills, setting up a high demand server (the pr0n archive) or indexing everything (like the Samba indexer for the WIndows network).
blocking web access to spammers and ISP's that allow spamming, that's kinda neat, actually. i think the customer complaints would quickly rack up and force businesses to take quick action.
one of the ever persistent problems for an email server admin is spam. it just taks up space for everyone; imagine what it's like to not have only your email inbox flooded, but countless others (say 100 or 10,000 or more). every day, several times. the onus was taken on by mail admins to block spamming, both at the server level (ie relays) and receiving it (ie through the RBL). and it works pretty well. usenet could easily have a similar situation.
i think if a large number of sites really did band together and update their ACLs for port 80 access, they'd be set for killing unresponsive ISP's. oh,m and security incidents that go without a reply are even worse than spam. and a lot of ISP's (ie uu.net) really don't do shit about complaints all too often.
your best bet is to get involved in the democratic process and the educational process as well. first up, vote. vote often. vote early. secondly, campaign for someone if you can, or at least contribute and fund those that can. thirdly, share your education and views on the issues with as many people, elected officials and neighbors, as you can. have you considered looking at the reccomendations of the EFF (www.eff.org), setting up meetings with their reps and your local government?
you can't complain if you didn't vote! and since this is a democratic process, you get wha tyou put in.
beleive it or not mudge and weld, some of us are astounded at your ability to discuss extrenely technical content in a clear manner. what's the secret?
i quite agree. it is hopeless, this all or none model that UNIX gives us, and Linux depends on.
so i bet you'll love this: Orange Linux. yep, Linux to Orange Book certifications. which means adding capabilities and mandatory ACLs and the whole lot. http://www.sgilinux.org/presentations/security/ind ex.htm
yeah, life is gonna rock. TCB's, ACLs, the whole lot. C2 and B2+ grade Linux.
it took so damned long not because a hack didn't exist (ProFTPd has been vulnerable for some time) but because the standard method used to crack the, a buffer overflow, probably wasn't written with PPC assembly in mind. most BO's out there are for x86, with a good number for SPARC, as well, but ony recently did some PPC shellcode (along with Alpha shell code) get put out in wide release. after the ProFTPd crack was well known, it became, unfortunately, more of an exercise of security through obscurity.
What did this person contribute to society, other than a place to buy books at fair prices conveniently over the internet?
i think you're missing the most important thing that's going on here. bezos is one of the most high profile members of the group of people that have fundamentally changed the economy and the dynamics of the flow of information.
the economy has changed on several key levels in the larger field that bezos is shaping (with others). first of all, we're moving towards a service oriented society, and the increasing IT/IS infrastructure is a combination of service and products. this is part of the larger shift in american economics from a production society to a service society. secondly, on the economic front, think about the amazing amount of wealth funneled into the hands of younger and younger people. FORE, Inc., was recently bought out, and secretaries could retire on the money from their resulting stock options. never before have we seen such a resulting shift of money so fast, and such vast amounts as well. bezos and amazon.com lie at the heart of this revolution.
in terms of the flow of information, it has done two major things. first of all, it has shifted the power from those that hold and dole out information to those that seek it. we've gone from a supply based system to a demand based one. this is about as fundamental a shift as the invention of the printing press. the dot coms also lie at the heart of this radical, sweeping change. the second thing is that it has liberated access to information. think about the stuff you now get to read each morning. i get to read everything from science journals that my university doesn't get to intelligence reports that woul normally be difficult to get. i'm sure you're in the same boat, having unparalleled access to information. again, the dot coms have helped to shape and provide this revolution.
frankly, i think it would have been better to have a person like dyson or someone else who played such a fundamental role in shaping the current internet if they wanted to honor that, but that's just me. but then again i think the century was shaped by far more important people on all levels.
you have to admit, this is incredibly accurate of time. ok, so amazon has not made a single dollar since they were formed. so what? their stock is doing quite well, and that's the real story of the year economically -- stock doing exceptionally well in the tech and dot-com area with companies that have yet to turn a profit. look at redhat, akimai, VA Linux... none of them have done well yet, though their stocks are doing very, very well.
secondly, this whole absurdity in the lawsuit over the one-click-shopping patent is indeed also a milestone in american history. in a world where arbitrary patents can be given out (cf. the two guys who have a patent on using a laser pointer to amuse a cat), this is utterly symbolic of how absurd the whole mess has become. a small GIF formatted graphic using the word 'Go' in a sans serif font... what a load of horsepucky.
so, the next time you say, "oh, what a crock", think about what amazon is all about, and then take a look at the larger economic and tech world this past year, and you'll see that they are indeed leaders in that arena.
more than likely, we'll spend the next ten to twenty years poking at the info attempting to decipher what it all means. honestly, we barely have an understanding of how genes work together to coordinate complex events like personality.
i agree with the hordes of people who say "john katz doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to science." and the fact is most of these posters here don't, either.
so may i suggest you folks shut the fsck up, go take a few courses in chemistry and biology and learn what the hell these fabled fears are all about? seriously, katz's piece screams for a better science education for the average person. he's got a monsterload of irrational fears based on ideas that are pure fantasy. and he'd know this, and you would, too, if more of you would quit wussing out in high school and college and take a course or two in real biology, complete with biochemistry and genetics.
a lot of you cry and moan that the general public doesn't understand computers of basic technology, and laugh when someone says, "they can steal your personality with a computer! it's true, i saw it in a movie!" well, folks, that's how many of the scientists feel when we see horsepucky like this thrown into the mix. a bunch of fears based on a lack of knowledge. it's not that hard to get educated, so go do it.
compared to the amount of rubbish that's written on this subject by mainstream journalists, this is pretty good hi. i don't know if you realize this. jane's is supposed to be not mainstream press but instead one of the leading political, intelligence, defence and economic updates around. it is a bit surprising the mistakes make in the piece, both technical and editorial. it reflects badly on janes.
it's no wonder that apache is in a dominant position as a web server: it works very very well. the fact that it's open source is only the half of it. the strengths could go on for days, but include the really sharp modules available (including SSL, PHP, Perl...), the speed it has (though it could be tweaked some more for some sites), and it's security.
one of the things i always wonder about are the security fixes they send out. they note they fix a lot of security holes, and i'm sure they do, but i don't look at code diffs so i don't know where they take place. and i have not seen an Apache exploit in decent release for a long time. i think that says a lot. IIS, NS, yeah, you see those every now and then (ok, a lot of IIS ones).
it's good to see a product like Apache really continuing on so many levels the Inet's traditions.
Slashdot Mirror
this is slashdot. they can't get science news right, either. are you surprised they didn't get some legal stuff right?
he seemed itching to get arrested, and well, he got it. so why is everyone surprised?
in fact they do generate a lot of heat. we had a cluster of 14 P120's and a single P133 with a Fore ASX 1000 switch generating a sizable heat dent that would actually shut it down (crash) in the summertime. we wound up moving it to a server room which was very well cooled (about 60 degrees F) and things improved there.
i know that the HIVE also had to cool things very forcibly (air in the bottom and drawn out the top of the racks). heat is definitely a big problem.
ken, i hope all is well, i haven't seen you around the seen much since packetstorm's uh... transition last year.
hi,
. html h tml
looks like i may be one of the first to offer a useful post.
SGI is working on getting C2 grade Linux out there. they hope to have it working sometime this year. B2 will follow 18 months or so from that. Orange Linux is the project's name.
the NSA and Secure Computing are working on a C2 grade Linux as well, with source of the stuff to be made publically available due to GPL licensing.
some links:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/000113/ca_secure__1
http://slashdot.org/articles/00/01/13/1029206.s
http://lwn.net/1999/1118/a/sgilinuxuniv.html
/me
so, i'm looking at this and knowing that a lot of corporations will not migrate production, mission critical pieces of equipment to Win2k without first seeing similar companies do so and experience the pains. just sound business sense. so, why don't they do their own in house certification once MS denies MSCE tests for NT4.0? they'll rest comfortably knowing their staff is trained and competant... and a lot of those example tests can lead to similar exams. *shrug* just an idea...
i really feel like i have to comment on this. i'm on several key networking mailing lists, and one of those has repeated discussions about napster. the issue is more bandwidth than anything. our university has a fat pipe to the world, but a lot of places have only a T1 or not much more. when you consider that the traffic from napster consumes over 30% of that pipe in most circumtances, you'll quickly realize that there's not much room for anything else, be it pr0n, mail, w4r3z trafficking or whatnot.
whine all you want. really, go ahead and do it. "but this is infringing on our freedoms!" the reality is you're hogging bandwidth. and until you pay for that bandwidth, please don't talk about freedoms being infringed upon.
here's a typical school's item on why they banned napster: http://www.grinnell.edu/resnet/announc e.html... while copyright issues are of course taken seriously, it's *bandwidth* folks...
and as for the quality of the documents, well, i've written a few that i should submit, but honestly, i doubt i will. in general there has got to be something of a standard for document quality. too many of the HOW-TO's are so poorly written.. blech.
thanks for the site changes, and thanks for being less exclusive about the document formatting.
an interesting discussion was recently held on packetstorm: http://packetstorm.securify.com/pap ers/contest/ ... read them.
and here is the abstract:
Biosystems 1999 Jun;50(3):203-11
A quantum mechanical model of adaptive mutation.
McFadden J, Al-Khalili J
Molecular Microbiology Group, School of Biological Sciences, University of Surrey, Guildford, UK. j.al-khalili@surrey.ac.uk
The principle that mutations occur randomly with respect to the direction of evolutionary change has been challenged by the phenomenon of adaptive mutations. There is currently no entirely satisfactory theory to account for how a cell can selectively mutate certain genes in response to environmental signals. However, spontaneous mutations are initiated by quantum events such as the shift of a single proton (hydrogen atom) from one site to an adjacent one. We consider here the wave function describing the quantum state of the genome as being in a coherent linear superposition of states describing both the shifted and unshifted protons. Quantum coherence will be destroyed by the process of decoherence in which the quantum state of the genome becomes correlated (entangled) with its surroundings. Using a very simple model we estimate the decoherence times for protons within DNA and demonstrate that quantum coherence may be maintained for biological time-scales. Interaction of the coherent genome wave function with environments containing utilisable substrate will induce rapid decoherence and thereby destroy the superposition of mutant and non-mutant states. We show that this accelerated rate of decoherence may significantly increase the rate of production of the mutated state.
PMID: 10400270, UI: 99325857
ok, over and out.
- a) less than saavy users. download some untrustworthy source or kernel source or even some binaries and voila, point of infection.
- b) distro poisoning, easier said than done (remember tcp_wrappers got infected, too)
- c) worm style incidents using poorly known holes in major distros (ie Linuxconf vulnerabilities, Apache holes, etc..).
it's a lot easier than some of you may think. a scenario for you: mirror mirror.example.com gets rooted and trojans of key RPM's of the latest RedHat distro are plced in. MD5 sums are altered and the whole thing loks legit. once installed, the packages (gcc, a kernel module, and a few access trojans like telentd or sshd) lie in wait. the kernel module keeps the user from seeing the problem, gcc's trojan always keeps trojans in the system, and the listening entry points are there and well hidden. bingo, you have a problem. say, in a TFN or Trin00 manner you manipulate the systems to rm -rftrust is a magical thing to abuse. and users' trust is getting greater and greater. how many times has the schlub in the cubicle next to you downloaded some spiffy screensaver from the net or run some "executable" from their email? all too often... :)
bear in mind that thompson build a cc trojaned to allow him to log in specially on any box using his cc, which also built it's trojan propogating systems in, too. :) thompson's not malicious, but some people are.
think about all the s|
but seriously, i can see a few benefits: first, as a researacher, i don't have to live with crappy bandwidth hogging up my download times for articles, experimental work etc. secondly, as astudent, you get to play with some neat technology and raid the Inet for information (like free Cisco books!) and pilfer all you want. thirdly, if you'd like, you can set up a nice server and have some fun.
yeah, a lot of the network around here is used to stream video (ie pr0n), mp3's or whatnot, but those are practical skills, setting up a high demand server (the pr0n archive) or indexing everything (like the Samba indexer for the WIndows network).
it's not all fun and games, just mostly.
one of the ever persistent problems for an email server admin is spam. it just taks up space for everyone; imagine what it's like to not have only your email inbox flooded, but countless others (say 100 or 10,000 or more). every day, several times. the onus was taken on by mail admins to block spamming, both at the server level (ie relays) and receiving it (ie through the RBL). and it works pretty well. usenet could easily have a similar situation.
i think if a large number of sites really did band together and update their ACLs for port 80 access, they'd be set for killing unresponsive ISP's. oh,m and security incidents that go without a reply are even worse than spam. and a lot of ISP's (ie uu.net) really don't do shit about complaints all too often.
your best bet is to get involved in the democratic process and the educational process as well. first up, vote. vote often. vote early. secondly, campaign for someone if you can, or at least contribute and fund those that can. thirdly, share your education and views on the issues with as many people, elected officials and neighbors, as you can. have you considered looking at the reccomendations of the EFF (www.eff.org), setting up meetings with their reps and your local government?
you can't complain if you didn't vote! and since this is a democratic process, you get wha tyou put in.
beleive it or not mudge and weld, some of us are astounded at your ability to discuss extrenely technical content in a clear manner. what's the secret?
oh, and thanks for the shirt (from defcon).
so i bet you'll love this: Orange Linux. yep, Linux to Orange Book certifications. which means adding capabilities and mandatory ACLs and the whole lot. http://www.sgilinux.org/presentations/security/ind ex.htm
yeah, life is gonna rock. TCB's, ACLs, the whole lot. C2 and B2+ grade Linux.
*Hobbit* wrote netcat, Weld Pond ported it to NT.
it took so damned long not because a hack didn't exist (ProFTPd has been vulnerable for some time) but because the standard method used to crack the, a buffer overflow, probably wasn't written with PPC assembly in mind. most BO's out there are for x86, with a good number for SPARC, as well, but ony recently did some PPC shellcode (along with Alpha shell code) get put out in wide release. after the ProFTPd crack was well known, it became, unfortunately, more of an exercise of security through obscurity.
a link to a recent piece on PPC shellcode is at http://packetstorm.se curify.com/papers/unix/ppc.shellcode.txt. i just checked for proftpd exploits on packetstorm and found quite a few; the presence of a writable incoming/ directory helps a LOT.
so, it still took longer than most challenges out there, and that's why i like LinuxPPC for various servers. that and they're just damn fast.
i think you're missing the most important thing that's going on here. bezos is one of the most high profile members of the group of people that have fundamentally changed the economy and the dynamics of the flow of information.
the economy has changed on several key levels in the larger field that bezos is shaping (with others). first of all, we're moving towards a service oriented society, and the increasing IT/IS infrastructure is a combination of service and products. this is part of the larger shift in american economics from a production society to a service society. secondly, on the economic front, think about the amazing amount of wealth funneled into the hands of younger and younger people. FORE, Inc., was recently bought out, and secretaries could retire on the money from their resulting stock options. never before have we seen such a resulting shift of money so fast, and such vast amounts as well. bezos and amazon.com lie at the heart of this revolution.
in terms of the flow of information, it has done two major things. first of all, it has shifted the power from those that hold and dole out information to those that seek it. we've gone from a supply based system to a demand based one. this is about as fundamental a shift as the invention of the printing press. the dot coms also lie at the heart of this radical, sweeping change. the second thing is that it has liberated access to information. think about the stuff you now get to read each morning. i get to read everything from science journals that my university doesn't get to intelligence reports that woul normally be difficult to get. i'm sure you're in the same boat, having unparalleled access to information. again, the dot coms have helped to shape and provide this revolution.
frankly, i think it would have been better to have a person like dyson or someone else who played such a fundamental role in shaping the current internet if they wanted to honor that, but that's just me. but then again i think the century was shaped by far more important people on all levels.
you have to admit, this is incredibly accurate of time. ok, so amazon has not made a single dollar since they were formed. so what? their stock is doing quite well, and that's the real story of the year economically -- stock doing exceptionally well in the tech and dot-com area with companies that have yet to turn a profit. look at redhat, akimai, VA Linux... none of them have done well yet, though their stocks are doing very, very well.
secondly, this whole absurdity in the lawsuit over the one-click-shopping patent is indeed also a milestone in american history. in a world where arbitrary patents can be given out (cf. the two guys who have a patent on using a laser pointer to amuse a cat), this is utterly symbolic of how absurd the whole mess has become. a small GIF formatted graphic using the word 'Go' in a sans serif font... what a load of horsepucky.
so, the next time you say, "oh, what a crock", think about what amazon is all about, and then take a look at the larger economic and tech world this past year, and you'll see that they are indeed leaders in that arena.
more than likely, we'll spend the next ten to twenty years poking at the info attempting to decipher what it all means. honestly, we barely have an understanding of how genes work together to coordinate complex events like personality.
ok,
i agree with the hordes of people who say "john katz doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to science." and the fact is most of these posters here don't, either.
so may i suggest you folks shut the fsck up, go take a few courses in chemistry and biology and learn what the hell these fabled fears are all about? seriously, katz's piece screams for a better science education for the average person. he's got a monsterload of irrational fears based on ideas that are pure fantasy. and he'd know this, and you would, too, if more of you would quit wussing out in high school and college and take a course or two in real biology, complete with biochemistry and genetics.
a lot of you cry and moan that the general public doesn't understand computers of basic technology, and laugh when someone says, "they can steal your personality with a computer! it's true, i saw it in a movie!" well, folks, that's how many of the scientists feel when we see horsepucky like this thrown into the mix. a bunch of fears based on a lack of knowledge. it's not that hard to get educated, so go do it.
thanks,
compared to the amount of rubbish that's written on this subject by mainstream journalists, this is pretty good
hi. i don't know if you realize this. jane's is supposed to be not mainstream press but instead one of the leading political, intelligence, defence and economic updates around. it is a bit surprising the mistakes make in the piece, both technical and editorial. it reflects badly on janes.
one of the things i always wonder about are the security fixes they send out. they note they fix a lot of security holes, and i'm sure they do, but i don't look at code diffs so i don't know where they take place. and i have not seen an Apache exploit in decent release for a long time. i think that says a lot. IIS, NS, yeah, you see those every now and then (ok, a lot of IIS ones).
it's good to see a product like Apache really continuing on so many levels the Inet's traditions.
jose .html.
are rick rubin and alan cox related? find out at http://biocserver.cwru.edu/~j ose/humor/rubin-cox
:) thanks for the clarification. it is appreciated. i haven't the foggiest about most of this, i just stand back and say, "cool."
:)