Even in a standard user world, he stressed that malware can still read all the user's data; can still hide with user-mode rootkits; and can still control which applications (anti-virus scanners) the user can access.
Please explain to me how, *exactly*, malware can execute and then control the system in user mode in OSX or Linux.
Until you accept the incontrovertible fact, as they are, out there for all to see, that UAC IS NOT sudo.
Here's just one of many salient quotes "Even in a standard user world, he stressed that malware can still read all the user's data; can still hide with user-mode rootkits; and can still control which applications (anti-virus scanners) the user can access."
Sadly, I'm modded troll for decimating the perception of security in Vista when it's out there for all to see.
UAC is essentially identical in concept and implementation to sudo
No. It's not. UAC is expressly designed to shift the responsibility for security onto the user. "Are you sure?" User clicks yes and Microsoft has shifted accountability to the user. It is brilliant in an evil way.
(albeit somewhat more automated and intelligent).
helloworld.c is automated and intelligent too. That doesn't make it equivalent to sudo. Please stop trolling.
Well, UAC is not sudo. Sudo is a discreet boundary between privileges. The default config in Mac and Ubuntu are very permissive. The reality is that you can (and should) make single applications available via sudo. Even then, you can force the user password or let the applications run without entering a password.
UAC is a gui to shift the blame of running a priviledged application onto the user. It is permeable and far less configurable. The OS needs access from the Userland into privileged processes in order to run many Microsoft applications.
Why do I never hear the need to enter a password for the graphical sudo box Because the NOPASSWD option is used in the sudo config. As root, run visudo and you can see/edit the configuration as you please.
My work recently gave me a cloned XP machine and SQL Server would not install.
Uhhh. Maybe because installing SQL Server is forbidden on XP? Or maybe you use those low-end crack pipe versions of SQL server. I have to keep a server-version of the OS running in the office for just this reason. What a PITA.
Unbelievable! Really, what was in KDE 3.5 that was so terrible that the whole thing needed to be junked,
Just because you like it doesn't mean ALL of the contributors to KDE should stick with 3.x. KDE is an open source project where many of the contributors do it for pleasure/fun/whatever. They want to keep it interesting and they cannot be blamed for that. It is Free after all.
If you are so committed to it, maintain KDE 3.x. Building is not that difficult. Time consuming, but not difficult. There are supporters of the Linux 2.4.xx kernel still out there for the same reason. And no, you cannot complain and then do nothing about it. At least show some gratitude.
Plasma might wind up being cool It already is. It's running beautifully on my old Thinkpad t42. You cannot say that about Vista. It's a departure from the old KDE 3.x way of doing things and so it will take some time for applications to migrate, programmers to learn it.
Microsoft won this round, again. You know, many using/writing Free software don't really care. There is no win/lose. It's "this GUI/app works for me." It's not the opposite of a win/lose mentality. It's the absence of it.
If you *insist* on casting the matter as a win/lose then the average Linux desktop will always lose because Microsoft and Apple's marketing simply out-shouts Linux and will for the forseeable future. As I said earlier KDE users like myself don't care.
I earn my living supporting a few Vista laptops used by some impatient execs so I know of what I speak.
I have had absolutely no issue with it. Well, then I'm not sure you do much with either then. There are user issues and oh there are plenty. I'll hit the highlights for you.
1. Copying large files. Why so slow? Execs want to check email while opening the latest *large* spreadsheet off the network. The dual-core 2GB RAM equipped nice laptop grinding to a halt is an issue.
2. UAC. After the first complaint I disabled it. Nevermind that UAC isn't sudo. Security is NOT shifting the responsibility of security onto the user. "Are you sure?" is not security. It's a blame-shifting mechanism and they paid handsomely for it.
3. Why is it **so** slow and suck **so** much battery power doing nothing? The disk thrashing is annoying to me, but they don't seem to notice it. The execs had way more battery time on their old XP's and they know the difference.
Vista has been far more stable than both of these,
That is a lie. Or, maybe you are using some kind of special Bill-Clinton-legal-gymnastical definition of "stable." It's one thing to prefer Vista over a Mac or Linux distro. It is another thing entirely to lie about the other OS's you do not prefer. At this point you have lost all credibility and believability.
and the support is no contest. Another Clintonian definition of the word support perhaps? Is it the *fabulous* phone support from script readers to configure your printer? Mac users get that too. Most on slashdot have moved way, way beyond phone CSR.
Read through the whole comment. Don't just flame away.
A. What about the placebo effect? It is widely observed, well documented and amazingly effective. Call it homeopathy if you want. How can it NOT be healing if it is observed in research settings?
B. The fundamental failure of alternative medical practices is there is too much basic research that no one is willing to pay for before a scientific framework (discipline!) can be created. Medical monotheists exploit the unfamiliarity and lack of large-scale Western-style research and lack of discipline on the part of many practitioners of alternative medical practices to justify their superiority.
C. Their logical position is not consistent with reality. Try as medical monotheists like this might, LOTS of people experience healing, or at bare minimum an improvement in their chronic condition as a result of alternative healing.
This is one of those dumb statistics battles that simply ignores all of the low-power devices out there that are already running Linux. Compare that with WinCE devices and prepare to be dumbfounded by the success of Linux.
The longer I use Linux as my primary desktop, the more I'm convinced that getting into a speeds-and-feeds battle with Apple and Microsoft is a horrible idea. A financially successful desktop distro would destroy the variety of distros out there.
Fortunately, big-box retail is such a losers game that only the inexperienced would attempt to keep a Linux distro on the shelf. How's that Ubuntu distro doing at Worst Buy??
My deepest sympathies for the mid-project nightmare about to unfold before your very eyes. Your employer will lose a bunch of "productivity," but you won't be fired.
*Indigent elderly care AND nursing homes. Kick em out. The streets will make them tough or dead.
*Health care for children. You know, they can just grow up with a chronic illness, that way we can spend 10x more on them as adults. Or not at all and they can live or die by whatever smarts they have.
*Home care. If they can't get to the Doctor's office on their own then they need to deal with that. Or call an ambulance and take them to critical care. You know that's FAR more expensive than offering rides right? Or they can just die at home.
I'm glad you used some facts, now it's time to make some decisions based on those facts.
While I'm in Denmark where the Socialists have one of most business friendly climates in the world. Shocking isn't it.
NY has one of the largest education budgets on a per student level in the nation (over 20,000 per student in my area), and the education our children get has not justified the cost.
cherry-picking the most basic government services as emotionally-charged poster children for why government "can't possibly" be reduced.
I cherry-picked. So, let's not cherry-pick. Find 100 of the worst expenditures in your State and end them. Guess what? You haven't put a dent in government spending.
In the real-world politic, those top-100 bad projects will have the resources to blow your noble deed of fiscal restraint out of the water.
Those same people who derail your noble project will have their own list of 100 bad projects, some of which you will find super-valuable.
It's the ones working here against the law, oversaying visas, working under fake SSNs, etc, etc, etc that are realling causing problems.
I'm sorry to break the news to you, but they provide most of the hard labor in the hospitality industry. Having worked in it, I know this from experience.
What problems do they cause?
That California is yet again on the brink of bankruptcy
And how exactly can you pin *$25+ billion* of dollars of fiscal irresponsibility on a significant minority? Do these illegal aliens spend hundreds of billions of dollars every single year on their own somehow?
unregulated under-the-table importation of poverty. Okay, from this day forward, all restaraunts, hotels, service shops, farms, warehouses, drivers, are magically forbidden from using undocumented workers. Not only would there be a supply crisis, but you won't be able to afford going to your local restaurant or hotel. The cost of produce alone would skyrocket.
Emergency rooms are closing in droves If you asked the people that run the hospitals, they would tell you the State isn't paying them enough to keep the doors open. They would also tell you that the emergency rooms are overwhelmed with people who can't afford to go to a doctor for non-emergency service. These are actual citizens using public services because they can't afford any other medical care.
tax burden shifts more and more upon the middle and upper classes Okay, lets tax the hell out of the poor. Guess what? They'll leave the State too!
Your thinking is unclear and riddled with xenophobia.
The problem with Fair Tax is it eliminates one of the ways government subsidizes/promotes economic activity. Instead of overtly sponsoring an industry/technology Americans like it better if they don't have simple, clear evidence they are supporting an industry.
You are jumping to a conclusion I did not make. This is not a political party issue.
"but we need cops and roads and schools" Of course we do!! Its everything else that tax dollars are being spent on that needs to stop.
Okay, so let's cut military spending in half and watch what happens. I don't think you understand the actual consequences of "just spend less" doublespeak.
yet the things you mention are overwhelmingly local in nature (law enforcement, courts, jails, utilities, water
Federal courts? Federal law enforcement? You clearly don't really understand how much Federal money is distributed to your State/Local gov't.
Federal highways are way overrated too. Let's stop maintaining those. Federal support of railroads are a money pit too. Let's get rid of those and see what happens to your local economy.
Trying to pay for EVERYTHING to make sure EVERY warm body (citizen or not) has the same benefits as everyone else just isn't sustainable.
If you expand your geopolitical boundaries a bit, you would discover many nations have some very effective nationalized systems for their citizens. What country do you live in? The U.S. is nowhere near providing anything like you describe.
California is going to be next here. They have a massive immigration issue.
As a lifelong Californian and middle-aged guy, this State has no "immigration issues." We love our immigrants! They pick ALL of the produce farmers grow, gladly provide all of the dirty, sweaty work in the hospitality industry. They have good credit, buy houses and pay taxes. It's been this way for at least 50 years.
Before the Latin Americans were doing the jobs, Europeans were *literally* imported for the same jobs. That's how my Grandfather got here. That's why you can find remnants of Basque and French populations in farm towns like Bakersfield, Fresno, etc.
I would rather have less government for less money.
* Law enforcement is overrated. Jails too. Gangs and other forms of organized crime can keep the peace just fine. * I'm thinking the roads in my State are too well maintained too. * I haven't seen any fires in my neighborhood, so get rid of the Fire Department. * Sewage systems and trash pick-up are over-rated too.
There you go, lower taxes. Enjoy your crime-riddled, trash-stinking utopia.
8 years of explicitly promoting a lax regulatory environment for every category of business in the U.S. hasn't seemed to have helped keep jobs in the U.S. at all. Wages certainly haven't gone up for those making less than $50,000/yr in the last eight years.
So let's chop away at those taxes! Publicly funded law enforcement is overrated. Organized crime/gangs do a good job protecting the neighborhood. Courts? Jails? Don't need em. Let's get rid of utility regulation too! You are perfectly willing to pay way more for electricity or safe fresh water at monopoly prices?
It's time you came to the realization that taxes are a part of what makes living in this country great.
Slashdot Mirror
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=175
Even in a standard user world, he stressed that malware can still read all the user's data; can still hide with user-mode rootkits; and can still control which applications (anti-virus scanners) the user can access.
Please explain to me how, *exactly*, malware can execute and then control the system in user mode in OSX or Linux.
Until you accept the incontrovertible fact, as they are, out there for all to see, that UAC IS NOT sudo.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=175
Here's just one of many salient quotes "Even in a standard user world, he stressed that malware can still read all the user's data; can still hide with user-mode rootkits; and can still control which applications (anti-virus scanners) the user can access."
Sadly, I'm modded troll for decimating the perception of security in Vista when it's out there for all to see.
The responsibility for security (in this context) is *always* on the end user, and always has been.
Erm. No. This is the point where you and I agree to disagree. That kind of disasterous thinking is the epitome of the broken window fallacy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
UAC (along with sudo, and similar tools)
Please stop comparing sudo and UAC as being somehow alike. Retelling this lie is disingenuous and dangerously misleads consumers and employers.
UAC is essentially identical in concept and implementation to sudo
No. It's not. UAC is expressly designed to shift the responsibility for security onto the user. "Are you sure?" User clicks yes and Microsoft has shifted accountability to the user. It is brilliant in an evil way.
(albeit somewhat more automated and intelligent).
helloworld.c is automated and intelligent too. That doesn't make it equivalent to sudo. Please stop trolling.
http://www.gratisoft.us/sudo/man/sudoers.html
How is UAC different from sudo?
Well, UAC is not sudo. Sudo is a discreet boundary between privileges. The default config in Mac and Ubuntu are very permissive. The reality is that you can (and should) make single applications available via sudo. Even then, you can force the user password or let the applications run without entering a password.
UAC is a gui to shift the blame of running a priviledged application onto the user. It is permeable and far less configurable. The OS needs access from the Userland into privileged processes in order to run many Microsoft applications.
Why do I never hear the need to enter a password for the graphical sudo box
Because the NOPASSWD option is used in the sudo config. As root, run visudo and you can see/edit the configuration as you please.
My work recently gave me a cloned XP machine and SQL Server would not install.
Uhhh. Maybe because installing SQL Server is forbidden on XP? Or maybe you use those low-end crack pipe versions of SQL server. I have to keep a server-version of the OS running in the office for just this reason. What a PITA.
That menu feature has been around for a long while. It doesn't need a search service running all of the time for it either on Linux.
Unbelievable! Really, what was in KDE 3.5 that was so terrible that the whole thing needed to be junked,
Just because you like it doesn't mean ALL of the contributors to KDE should stick with 3.x. KDE is an open source project where many of the contributors do it for pleasure/fun/whatever. They want to keep it interesting and they cannot be blamed for that. It is Free after all.
If you are so committed to it, maintain KDE 3.x. Building is not that difficult. Time consuming, but not difficult. There are supporters of the Linux 2.4.xx kernel still out there for the same reason. And no, you cannot complain and then do nothing about it. At least show some gratitude.
Plasma might wind up being cool
It already is. It's running beautifully on my old Thinkpad t42. You cannot say that about Vista. It's a departure from the old KDE 3.x way of doing things and so it will take some time for applications to migrate, programmers to learn it.
Microsoft won this round, again.
You know, many using/writing Free software don't really care. There is no win/lose. It's "this GUI/app works for me." It's not the opposite of a win/lose mentality. It's the absence of it.
If you *insist* on casting the matter as a win/lose then the average Linux desktop will always lose because Microsoft and Apple's marketing simply out-shouts Linux and will for the forseeable future. As I said earlier KDE users like myself don't care.
I earn my living supporting a few Vista laptops used by some impatient execs so I know of what I speak.
I have had absolutely no issue with it.
Well, then I'm not sure you do much with either then. There are user issues and oh there are plenty. I'll hit the highlights for you.
1. Copying large files. Why so slow? Execs want to check email while opening the latest *large* spreadsheet off the network. The dual-core 2GB RAM equipped nice laptop grinding to a halt is an issue.
2. UAC. After the first complaint I disabled it. Nevermind that UAC isn't sudo. Security is NOT shifting the responsibility of security onto the user. "Are you sure?" is not security. It's a blame-shifting mechanism and they paid handsomely for it.
3. Why is it **so** slow and suck **so** much battery power doing nothing? The disk thrashing is annoying to me, but they don't seem to notice it. The execs had way more battery time on their old XP's and they know the difference.
Vista has been far more stable than both of these,
That is a lie. Or, maybe you are using some kind of special Bill-Clinton-legal-gymnastical definition of "stable." It's one thing to prefer Vista over a Mac or Linux distro. It is another thing entirely to lie about the other OS's you do not prefer. At this point you have lost all credibility and believability.
and the support is no contest.
Another Clintonian definition of the word support perhaps? Is it the *fabulous* phone support from script readers to configure your printer? Mac users get that too. Most on slashdot have moved way, way beyond phone CSR.
Read through the whole comment. Don't just flame away.
A. What about the placebo effect?
It is widely observed, well documented and amazingly effective. Call it homeopathy if you want. How can it NOT be healing if it is observed in research settings?
B. The fundamental failure of alternative medical practices is there is too much basic research that no one is willing to pay for before a scientific framework (discipline!) can be created. Medical monotheists exploit the unfamiliarity and lack of large-scale Western-style research and lack of discipline on the part of many practitioners of alternative medical practices to justify their superiority.
C. Their logical position is not consistent with reality. Try as medical monotheists like this might, LOTS of people experience healing, or at bare minimum an improvement in their chronic condition as a result of alternative healing.
This is one of those dumb statistics battles that simply ignores all of the low-power devices out there that are already running Linux. Compare that with WinCE devices and prepare to be dumbfounded by the success of Linux.
The longer I use Linux as my primary desktop, the more I'm convinced that getting into a speeds-and-feeds battle with Apple and Microsoft is a horrible idea. A financially successful desktop distro would destroy the variety of distros out there.
Fortunately, big-box retail is such a losers game that only the inexperienced would attempt to keep a Linux distro on the shelf. How's that Ubuntu distro doing at Worst Buy??
Yes, well, scale your "very roughly" up to every office in your org and add a bunch of proprietary apps and you've got Enterprise-class trouble.
One office at a time, with one person doing it is blissfully simple. Have a great holiday.
We're migrating to AD right now.
My deepest sympathies for the mid-project nightmare about to unfold before your very eyes. Your employer will lose a bunch of "productivity," but you won't be fired.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1065367&cid=26148925
Let's get rid of those Welfare Kings and Queens!
1. It's nice to see someone use some facts around here. Good work!
2. Medicaid is 1/3 of the budget.
Okay, let's get rid of it. http://publications.budget.state.ny.us/eBudget0910/fy0910littlebook/HealthCare.html
So, which would you like to eliminate first?
*Indigent elderly care AND nursing homes. Kick em out. The streets will make them tough or dead.
*Health care for children. You know, they can just grow up with a chronic illness, that way we can spend 10x more on them as adults. Or not at all and they can live or die by whatever smarts they have.
*Home care. If they can't get to the Doctor's office on their own then they need to deal with that. Or call an ambulance and take them to critical care. You know that's FAR more expensive than offering rides right? Or they can just die at home.
I'm glad you used some facts, now it's time to make some decisions based on those facts.
Your way of thinking is unclear and employs the untenable American dichotomy of less taxes = better government.
While I'm moving to Socialist Europe (those commies in Denmark will LOVE me), you move to the low-tax-rate Mexico. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg Hmmm. It seems Mexico's a bad place to do business. http://www.doingbusiness.org/EconomyRankings/
While I'm in Denmark where the Socialists have one of most business friendly climates in the world. Shocking isn't it.
NY has one of the largest education budgets on a per student level in the nation (over 20,000 per student in my area), and the education our children get has not justified the cost.
So, cut the budget in half. Go ahead. Will students be MORE qualified after the budget cut? Maybe you'd like to fund schools as little as they do in Tennessee? http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:Z89OYuyGr5cJ:www.jobseducationwis.org/263A%2520Education%2520Week%2520Quality%2520Counts%25202005.doc+educational+achievement+ranking+by+state&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Whining about taxes and big budgets and doing nothing about it is is a favored pastime of the well-off and stable countries worldwide.
Move your bottom-of-the-barrel magical thinking to Mexico. I'd be happy to hear how that works out for you... Oh, wait. It won't.
How about building an argument on facts first?
cherry-picking the most basic government services as emotionally-charged poster children for why government "can't possibly" be reduced.
I cherry-picked. So, let's not cherry-pick. Find 100 of the worst expenditures in your State and end them. Guess what? You haven't put a dent in government spending.
In the real-world politic, those top-100 bad projects will have the resources to blow your noble deed of fiscal restraint out of the water.
Those same people who derail your noble project will have their own list of 100 bad projects, some of which you will find super-valuable.
It's the ones working here against the law, oversaying visas, working under fake SSNs, etc, etc, etc that are realling causing problems.
I'm sorry to break the news to you, but they provide most of the hard labor in the hospitality industry. Having worked in it, I know this from experience.
What problems do they cause?
That California is yet again on the brink of bankruptcy
And how exactly can you pin *$25+ billion* of dollars of fiscal irresponsibility on a significant minority? Do these illegal aliens spend hundreds of billions of dollars every single year on their own somehow?
unregulated under-the-table importation of poverty.
Okay, from this day forward, all restaraunts, hotels, service shops, farms, warehouses, drivers, are magically forbidden from using undocumented workers. Not only would there be a supply crisis, but you won't be able to afford going to your local restaurant or hotel. The cost of produce alone would skyrocket.
Emergency rooms are closing in droves
If you asked the people that run the hospitals, they would tell you the State isn't paying them enough to keep the doors open. They would also tell you that the emergency rooms are overwhelmed with people who can't afford to go to a doctor for non-emergency service. These are actual citizens using public services because they can't afford any other medical care.
tax burden shifts more and more upon the middle and upper classes
Okay, lets tax the hell out of the poor. Guess what? They'll leave the State too!
Your thinking is unclear and riddled with xenophobia.
You made an excellent point.
The problem with Fair Tax is it eliminates one of the ways government subsidizes/promotes economic activity. Instead of overtly sponsoring an industry/technology Americans like it better if they don't have simple, clear evidence they are supporting an industry.
As always, everything is always Bush's fault.
You are jumping to a conclusion I did not make. This is not a political party issue.
"but we need cops and roads and schools" Of course we do!! Its everything else that tax dollars are being spent on that needs to stop.
Okay, so let's cut military spending in half and watch what happens. I don't think you understand the actual consequences of "just spend less" doublespeak.
yet the things you mention are overwhelmingly local in nature (law enforcement, courts, jails, utilities, water
Federal courts? Federal law enforcement? You clearly don't really understand how much Federal money is distributed to your State/Local gov't.
Federal highways are way overrated too. Let's stop maintaining those. Federal support of railroads are a money pit too. Let's get rid of those and see what happens to your local economy.
Trying to pay for EVERYTHING to make sure EVERY warm body (citizen or not) has the same benefits as everyone else just isn't sustainable.
If you expand your geopolitical boundaries a bit, you would discover many nations have some very effective nationalized systems for their citizens. What country do you live in? The U.S. is nowhere near providing anything like you describe.
California is going to be next here. They have a massive immigration issue.
As a lifelong Californian and middle-aged guy, this State has no "immigration issues." We love our immigrants! They pick ALL of the produce farmers grow, gladly provide all of the dirty, sweaty work in the hospitality industry. They have good credit, buy houses and pay taxes. It's been this way for at least 50 years.
Before the Latin Americans were doing the jobs, Europeans were *literally* imported for the same jobs. That's how my Grandfather got here. That's why you can find remnants of Basque and French populations in farm towns like Bakersfield, Fresno, etc.
It's time to let go of that one and move on.
I would rather have less government for less money.
* Law enforcement is overrated. Jails too. Gangs and other forms of organized crime can keep the peace just fine.
* I'm thinking the roads in my State are too well maintained too.
* I haven't seen any fires in my neighborhood, so get rid of the Fire Department.
* Sewage systems and trash pick-up are over-rated too.
There you go, lower taxes. Enjoy your crime-riddled, trash-stinking utopia.
Your post, and the parent post are choking on their own misinformation.
The US has on of the highest corporate tax rates in the world
If you want to pick a *single* statistic, to tie your frustrations to, then that's about as bad as it gets.
I think we would all agree that the American economy remains one of the most vibrant in the world. It remains one of the most business friendly. http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/10/smallbusiness/best_countries_for_small_biz.smb/
8 years of explicitly promoting a lax regulatory environment for every category of business in the U.S. hasn't seemed to have helped keep jobs in the U.S. at all. Wages certainly haven't gone up for those making less than $50,000/yr in the last eight years.
So let's chop away at those taxes! Publicly funded law enforcement is overrated. Organized crime/gangs do a good job protecting the neighborhood. Courts? Jails? Don't need em. Let's get rid of utility regulation too! You are perfectly willing to pay way more for electricity or safe fresh water at monopoly prices?
It's time you came to the realization that taxes are a part of what makes living in this country great.
Most of the embedded-style NAS will crap out WAY below whatever throughput you are looking for.
The trick is going to be maxing out the transfer bandwidth by identifying the bottlenecks in a Linux file server.
The most direct route I can imagine is a proper SAN and fibre channel controllers. Not cheap, but my time isn't either.