No problem if they're trying to scratch their itch, but seriously, why is this needed? There are plenty of alternatives to redhat and more than enough community-based distributions - debian and most of its derivatives for starters. Why would they choose to go with rpm?
Yes, but blocking the pictures doesn't change the events.
If you're a potential paedophile, society is much better off with you looking at pictures than going out there and finding children to rape.
I didn't know that was supposed to be a primary purpose of the network. I don't use freenet as it's too bloated, but I run gnunet because I support free speech and like getting music without paying for it.
Doesn't list gnunet there. It's a conventional p2p network (though there's a lower layer that could run alternative applications) but seems to be scaling better than mute, perhaps.
I understood frost to be more of a message board type thing.
Java bloat? No worse then other languages that try to be *universal*. Besides, don't like java? Then recode it in something else and quit bitching.
Why should I bother when I have gnunet, it's working, and I'm better off contributing to that?
Slow? Depends on what you are doing. Are you trying to download files? Well it really wasn't designed for that. And there will be a tradeoff on speed/anonymity.
I'm trying to do anything at all. It behaves like back when I was on a 14.4kbps modem.Searches? Umm there are several search engines available if you look.
Show me one that works. In fact, show me anything that works.
I think he means I2P. It's just a layer thing (there's an azureus plugin, but that still leaves you relying on centralised points for your torrents), and it's java, so I prefer gnunet, which works as a more conventional p2p network.
No. You can excuse any *content* (ITYM "rationale"), pictures of murders, any kind of writing, movies, etc., but you can't excuse actions in terms of freedom of speech. No one has ever tried to defend murder or rape or burgulary as freedom of speech. In fact, I think the only things that people claim it isn't freedom of speech on are child porn and copyright infringement. I'm willing to defend freedom of speech for any kind of speech.
Exactly. But the point is if you didn't feel that way, you wouldn't be using java. Which means it's stupid to talk about the community not caring, because the people who do care, like me, are naturally not a part of the community. Who knows how many more people would be using java if it were open source? You certainly can't tell just by asking the current java community.
It is copylefted. You have to retain all copyright notices on any redistributed version, including the one saying it's licensed to you under apache license.
Gnunet is out there and working. It's slower than normal internet, but certainly within an order of magnitude (I get 20Kbps dowloads over my DSL, that's a factor of 2.5 behind gnutella but fast enough)
Forever. A web browser is something a network like this cannot emulate, because the latency is too high. Making it as easy to use as Kazaa, is, however, very possible. Gnunet is already at that stage, just needs more peers. But Freenet won't do that, because they'd rather keep making speeches about privacy and free speech rather than getting on and actually coding the program to get it working.
Freenet gets more attention because its developers are very vocal, but it sucks as a working network. You can hardly get any speed off it, you have to use the stupid browser interface, it's bloaty java, and there's no working search. Switch to gnunet, it has decent speeds, working search, and has a graphical client (not a very nice one as yet, but that could be improved).
Because this is not a complete open java implementation being released, it's a new project starting from scratch with zero code. Which seems pointless.
No, the Apache license responsible for the incompatibility because it was written *after* the GPL. You can't seriously expect the GPL to be written to be compatible with future licenses.
Making it QPL would allow it to be included in Debian and other linux distros that haven't bothered to negotiate a license to redistribute from sun. This would be a substantial benefit to them, their users, and also to Sun because it would make it easier for end users to use Java. At the same time I don't see how it would harm Sun's power over it.
Absolutely, except the problem is they use internal sun-only classes (sun.* packages), so no other JVM, even a completely standard-compliant one, can run OOo.
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No problem if they're trying to scratch their itch, but seriously, why is this needed? There are plenty of alternatives to redhat and more than enough community-based distributions - debian and most of its derivatives for starters. Why would they choose to go with rpm?
I'm just taking issue with one thing he said. A reply doesn't have to address every single point.
If you're a potential paedophile, society is much better off with you looking at pictures than going out there and finding children to rape.
I didn't know that was supposed to be a primary purpose of the network. I don't use freenet as it's too bloated, but I run gnunet because I support free speech and like getting music without paying for it.
Doesn't list gnunet there. It's a conventional p2p network (though there's a lower layer that could run alternative applications) but seems to be scaling better than mute, perhaps.
Java bloat? No worse then other languages that try to be *universal*. Besides, don't like java? Then recode it in something else and quit bitching.
Why should I bother when I have gnunet, it's working, and I'm better off contributing to that?
Slow? Depends on what you are doing. Are you trying to download files? Well it really wasn't designed for that. And there will be a tradeoff on speed/anonymity.
I'm trying to do anything at all. It behaves like back when I was on a 14.4kbps modem.Searches? Umm there are several search engines available if you look.
Show me one that works. In fact, show me anything that works.
I think he means I2P. It's just a layer thing (there's an azureus plugin, but that still leaves you relying on centralised points for your torrents), and it's java, so I prefer gnunet, which works as a more conventional p2p network.
No. You can excuse any *content* (ITYM "rationale"), pictures of murders, any kind of writing, movies, etc., but you can't excuse actions in terms of freedom of speech. No one has ever tried to defend murder or rape or burgulary as freedom of speech. In fact, I think the only things that people claim it isn't freedom of speech on are child porn and copyright infringement. I'm willing to defend freedom of speech for any kind of speech.
Not necessarily a result of freedom and anonymity. I haven't looked for child porn, but I know there's plenty of music and programs up on gnunet.
"Worst monsters"? You think looking at pictures, however horrific they are in the end it's all colours and light, is worse than killing people?
It doesn't put any restrictions on Sun, it's their license, they hold the copyright anyway so they're not bound by it.
Exactly. But the point is if you didn't feel that way, you wouldn't be using java. Which means it's stupid to talk about the community not caring, because the people who do care, like me, are naturally not a part of the community. Who knows how many more people would be using java if it were open source? You certainly can't tell just by asking the current java community.
It is copylefted. You have to retain all copyright notices on any redistributed version, including the one saying it's licensed to you under apache license.
Yeah, but kaffe/classpath are working on that, wouldn't contributing to their projects get the job done quicker than starting a new one?
Gnunet is out there and working. It's slower than normal internet, but certainly within an order of magnitude (I get 20Kbps dowloads over my DSL, that's a factor of 2.5 behind gnutella but fast enough)
Vaporware. Why haven't they fixed it right away? The anonymity is the whole point of the entire project, and they can't even get that working.
Forever. A web browser is something a network like this cannot emulate, because the latency is too high. Making it as easy to use as Kazaa, is, however, very possible. Gnunet is already at that stage, just needs more peers. But Freenet won't do that, because they'd rather keep making speeches about privacy and free speech rather than getting on and actually coding the program to get it working.
Freenet gets more attention because its developers are very vocal, but it sucks as a working network. You can hardly get any speed off it, you have to use the stupid browser interface, it's bloaty java, and there's no working search. Switch to gnunet, it has decent speeds, working search, and has a graphical client (not a very nice one as yet, but that could be improved).
If their API contains anything substantial enough to be copyrightable, your code could well be a derivative even before it's linked.
In that case it's a derived work of Sun's class libraries.
The world should be very angry. They were a war crime, plain and simple.
Because this is not a complete open java implementation being released, it's a new project starting from scratch with zero code. Which seems pointless.
No, the Apache license responsible for the incompatibility because it was written *after* the GPL. You can't seriously expect the GPL to be written to be compatible with future licenses.
Making it QPL would allow it to be included in Debian and other linux distros that haven't bothered to negotiate a license to redistribute from sun. This would be a substantial benefit to them, their users, and also to Sun because it would make it easier for end users to use Java. At the same time I don't see how it would harm Sun's power over it.
Patent licenses. It's thought the GPL 3 will be very similar to the apache license.
Absolutely, except the problem is they use internal sun-only classes (sun.* packages), so no other JVM, even a completely standard-compliant one, can run OOo.