It is not the end client companies who are doing this, the main culprit is the preffered vendors or consulting companies, details are here http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
Dude I am sure you have never been in the real H1-B pool. Let me take you into a secret. The fear of deportation upon H1 cancellation is larger than your imagination.
So I have first hand experience H1-B workers legally getting paid the prevailing wages but only 20 hours a month, when the contractor is on bench. With one person that I know off this went for 5 months, 8 such guys were forced to live in squalor one bed room apartment. And that company is at present a worth more than 150 millions.
And in last 5 years I have been with 8 consulting companies out of which 5 have been like the one I described. The other H1 workers that I talk to majority of them have had similar experiences.
So in the end its all about low pay, putting the employer in drivers seat and more taxes to government http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
I think the process can be more streamlined if we can get rid of the real problem, the preffered vendors and consulting companies as explained here http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
the end client need do take more responsibility and do more of direct hires.
It is not the companies who post the skill requirement for a job. the real culprits are the consulting companies or preffered vendors. explained here ind detail http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
I am an H1 worker and I don't agree with your assesment the true reasons from my perspective are here http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
so you will see that a H1 worker being under more pressure as opposed to citizens (who get unemployment compensation) is more likely to lie (as they have only few days between job transition before their H1 is cancelled) than to acquire skills sitting at home.
how will bringing people from India solve the problem when the cost of living, insurance and everything else higher in USA as compared to India. The problem is much more deeper than you think, dollor will have to be devalued to stop outsourcing.
Dude here is your rebuttal with the reasoning why H1-B will neve be eliminated until unles no good jobs remain in this country. http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
Dude the problem is not with the foreigners that flock here in search for jobs or those who work in call centers in asian countries. The problem is with the greedy fat cat corporations of America. In the name of cost cutting and competitivenes they are willing to lay off loads of americans and send truck loads of jobs to asian countries. Little did these corporations and the government realize that globalization of economy will backfire on them when they were the strongest proponents in late 80's and early 90's.
The guys those who work at call centers aren't even flying into this country in search for jobs, the corporates are snatching jobs from americans and flying these jobs to them.
So how can this problem be fixed specially when the US government listens only to the K-street corporate lobbyists? Duh!! its easy we need a third party candidate elected, enough of democrats and republicans. The reasoning behind this is obvious, the corporations put their money in both the parties and its in their adverse interests to see a third party in power. Hence no campaign contributions to anybody else except Demos & Repubs.
I totally empathize with you on this. Having experienced the all of catch 22 I know how it feels and how stupid these companies can be. Some are to be blamed directly and some indirectly, let me clear it up.
There is a crap known as head hunters and consulting companies they are the main culprits. This is how they work, they talk to a hiring manager of a company, give him gifts and cash money so that the managers designates this consulting company as preffered vendors. These vendors then weed out the resumes for the client in ways that force contractors to lie about their experience (to avoid catch 22). Then these vendors tie the contractors into a legally binding non-compete contracts. The vendors charge hefty money to client which the hiring manager is more than happy to approve (since he got the gifts) or manages to sell it to the company board. These contractors are paid peanuts and they are generally H1 visa holders. As an example a client I work for pays $85/hour for J2EE development, the vendor in turns pays $42/hour to the employer of the H1-B contractor. The contractor in turn gets paid around $25/hour.
The non-compete contracts mostly prohibits the client to hire the same contractor as a permanent employee or as a contractor at low rate (say $65/hour). Also the contractor due to this non-compete clause cannot work for the same client for atleast one year if he is hired by a competing vendor. So this in effects locks the clients and contractors, creating an artificial scarcity of skilled workers.
Over a period of time coupled with fear of H1-B cancellation (which is totally based on the whim of the employer) and vendor forces these contractors start lying on their resumes, they can show 10 years experience on a 3 year technology.
But who is to be really blamed here..... vendors and clients quite rightly, i think.
I hope you are not relying too much on recruiting companies aka head hunters. Because most of them they do the shitty job, they even force a contractor to lie on their resume about work experience and stuff. A contractor might have learned some technology like writing driver or compiling kernel at home, but if contractor can't show work experience, the head hunter won't even forward the resume to you the client. So an individiual is forced to lie, catch 22 all over again.
Also consider hiring somebody for less pay and let them learn on the job. Atleast they won't have lied to you from the begining hence you can better manage them and your expectations from them.
Goverment wants more tax, corporations want cheaper labor.
Government wants non-refundable social security tax, corporations want disposable labor that can work long hours on the same cheap pay.
Let me explain what I think is going on here, I have been a H1 visa holder for 5 years now, so there is some credibility to this. And to put it mildy H1-B visas are a legal documents for indentured servitude, a modern day legalized slavery. Slavery by Govt and Corporations. As far as tax is concerned Govt makes more money on H1-B visa holders than on GC or US Citizens. Let me explain how, 2 persons earning 45K each pay more tax (approx >= 15%) than a single person earning 90K (which is what you usually get by the time you get your Green Card(GC) or if citizen with 3-4 years of experience). Plus for citizen of China and India, they cannot claim their social security tax after their 6 year H1-B period ends and they are asked to leave USA (if GC has not been acquired by then).
From the corporate perspective it is easier to control and pay cheap alien workers than it is to deal with GC and citizens. Plus most alien workers due the fear, of H1 cancellation at the whim of the employer, are always genuflecting, bending over and working long hours. Corporates want more control over their work force and they get it through H1, because for H1 holders changing permanent jobs is tougher compared to GC and citizens. A case in point is George Bush's latest move to legalize illegal mexican by granting them a three year (H1-B) work permit, now this H1 quota is separate from the current 65000. The aim is to put the employer in the driver seat and tax these mexicans.
And I can vouch that for the majority of the cases US citizens are smart and efficient software developer then H1-B counter parts. These kinds (citizens) might be less in number but I sincerely doubt that. H1-B guys are mostly hard workers but not neccessarily smart and efficient, most of them including me tend to gain software knowledge through job pressures.
So why are H1-B guys here in the first place. Well Duh!!! its the Benjamins, the value of US dollor. It won't be an exaggeration if I said that more than 80% of the current H1-B lot will go back their home countries if they get paid 60% of what they are paid here.
Wasn't it a public knowledge that Pentagon was struck by a American Airlines 757 plane, but this is not what really happenend http://www.sodaro.com/Plone/ps/
Wasn't it a public knowledge that Pentagon was struck by a American Airlines 757 plane, but this is not what really happenend http://www.sodaro.com/Plone/ps/
Wasn't it a public knowledge that Pentagon was struck by a American Airlines 757 plane, but this is not what really happenend http://www.sodaro.com/Plone/ps/
WalMart is the biggest monopoly ever, not just because of its number of stores and its corporate influence on justice department/politicians, but because WalMart influences everyones lives. Its a retail chain that sells everything for less, albeit by arm twisting the suppliers to sell for less and in the process killing the local economy.
Not that I side with the Labels, they too are monopolistic and cold blooded killers of talent. So its good they are tasting their own medicine.
What I would like to see happen is cap the number of stores WalMart can open in a county, cap the quantity of items WalMart can import from China, have a government run complaint cell where these suppliers can complain about arm twisting (that will build enough evidence for Anti Trust lawsuit) and last but not the least break up WalMart into W A L M A R T (thats 7) baby marts.
I am not that afraid of the labels, because proliferation of P2P, secure P2Ps, pirated CDs, online music stores are already teaching them a lesson.
-stegano
If David Blunkett has his way then days of GATTACA aren't far away and then we will need one too many Vincent to democratize the system. Its really Scary.
Slashdot Mirror
It is not the end client companies who are doing this, the main culprit is the preffered vendors or consulting companies, details are here http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
Dude I am sure you have never been in the real H1-B pool. Let me take you into a secret. The fear of deportation upon H1 cancellation is larger than your imagination. So I have first hand experience H1-B workers legally getting paid the prevailing wages but only 20 hours a month, when the contractor is on bench. With one person that I know off this went for 5 months, 8 such guys were forced to live in squalor one bed room apartment. And that company is at present a worth more than 150 millions. And in last 5 years I have been with 8 consulting companies out of which 5 have been like the one I described. The other H1 workers that I talk to majority of them have had similar experiences. So in the end its all about low pay, putting the employer in drivers seat and more taxes to government http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
I think the process can be more streamlined if we can get rid of the real problem, the preffered vendors and consulting companies as explained here http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
the end client need do take more responsibility and do more of direct hires.
It is not the companies who post the skill requirement for a job. the real culprits are the consulting companies or preffered vendors. explained here ind detail http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
I am an H1 worker and I don't agree with your assesment the true reasons from my perspective are here http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
so you will see that a H1 worker being under more pressure as opposed to citizens (who get unemployment compensation) is more likely to lie (as they have only few days between job transition before their H1 is cancelled) than to acquire skills sitting at home.
how will bringing people from India solve the problem when the cost of living, insurance and everything else higher in USA as compared to India. The problem is much more deeper than you think, dollor will have to be devalued to stop outsourcing.
Dude here is your rebuttal with the reasoning why H1-B will neve be eliminated until unles no good jobs remain in this country. http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130205&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=187&mode=thread&cid=10 866899
Dude the problem is not with the foreigners that flock here in search for jobs or those who work in call centers in asian countries. The problem is with the greedy fat cat corporations of America. In the name of cost cutting and competitivenes they are willing to lay off loads of americans and send truck loads of jobs to asian countries. Little did these corporations and the government realize that globalization of economy will backfire on them when they were the strongest proponents in late 80's and early 90's. The guys those who work at call centers aren't even flying into this country in search for jobs, the corporates are snatching jobs from americans and flying these jobs to them. So how can this problem be fixed specially when the US government listens only to the K-street corporate lobbyists? Duh!! its easy we need a third party candidate elected, enough of democrats and republicans. The reasoning behind this is obvious, the corporations put their money in both the parties and its in their adverse interests to see a third party in power. Hence no campaign contributions to anybody else except Demos & Repubs.
I totally empathize with you on this. Having experienced the all of catch 22 I know how it feels and how stupid these companies can be. Some are to be blamed directly and some indirectly, let me clear it up. There is a crap known as head hunters and consulting companies they are the main culprits. This is how they work, they talk to a hiring manager of a company, give him gifts and cash money so that the managers designates this consulting company as preffered vendors. These vendors then weed out the resumes for the client in ways that force contractors to lie about their experience (to avoid catch 22). Then these vendors tie the contractors into a legally binding non-compete contracts. The vendors charge hefty money to client which the hiring manager is more than happy to approve (since he got the gifts) or manages to sell it to the company board. These contractors are paid peanuts and they are generally H1 visa holders. As an example a client I work for pays $85/hour for J2EE development, the vendor in turns pays $42/hour to the employer of the H1-B contractor. The contractor in turn gets paid around $25/hour. The non-compete contracts mostly prohibits the client to hire the same contractor as a permanent employee or as a contractor at low rate (say $65/hour). Also the contractor due to this non-compete clause cannot work for the same client for atleast one year if he is hired by a competing vendor. So this in effects locks the clients and contractors, creating an artificial scarcity of skilled workers. Over a period of time coupled with fear of H1-B cancellation (which is totally based on the whim of the employer) and vendor forces these contractors start lying on their resumes, they can show 10 years experience on a 3 year technology. But who is to be really blamed here..... vendors and clients quite rightly, i think.
I hope you are not relying too much on recruiting companies aka head hunters. Because most of them they do the shitty job, they even force a contractor to lie on their resume about work experience and stuff. A contractor might have learned some technology like writing driver or compiling kernel at home, but if contractor can't show work experience, the head hunter won't even forward the resume to you the client. So an individiual is forced to lie, catch 22 all over again. Also consider hiring somebody for less pay and let them learn on the job. Atleast they won't have lied to you from the begining hence you can better manage them and your expectations from them.
Goverment wants more tax, corporations want cheaper labor. Government wants non-refundable social security tax, corporations want disposable labor that can work long hours on the same cheap pay. Let me explain what I think is going on here, I have been a H1 visa holder for 5 years now, so there is some credibility to this. And to put it mildy H1-B visas are a legal documents for indentured servitude, a modern day legalized slavery. Slavery by Govt and Corporations. As far as tax is concerned Govt makes more money on H1-B visa holders than on GC or US Citizens. Let me explain how, 2 persons earning 45K each pay more tax (approx >= 15%) than a single person earning 90K (which is what you usually get by the time you get your Green Card(GC) or if citizen with 3-4 years of experience). Plus for citizen of China and India, they cannot claim their social security tax after their 6 year H1-B period ends and they are asked to leave USA (if GC has not been acquired by then). From the corporate perspective it is easier to control and pay cheap alien workers than it is to deal with GC and citizens. Plus most alien workers due the fear, of H1 cancellation at the whim of the employer, are always genuflecting, bending over and working long hours. Corporates want more control over their work force and they get it through H1, because for H1 holders changing permanent jobs is tougher compared to GC and citizens. A case in point is George Bush's latest move to legalize illegal mexican by granting them a three year (H1-B) work permit, now this H1 quota is separate from the current 65000. The aim is to put the employer in the driver seat and tax these mexicans. And I can vouch that for the majority of the cases US citizens are smart and efficient software developer then H1-B counter parts. These kinds (citizens) might be less in number but I sincerely doubt that. H1-B guys are mostly hard workers but not neccessarily smart and efficient, most of them including me tend to gain software knowledge through job pressures. So why are H1-B guys here in the first place. Well Duh!!! its the Benjamins, the value of US dollor. It won't be an exaggeration if I said that more than 80% of the current H1-B lot will go back their home countries if they get paid 60% of what they are paid here.
Wasn't it a public knowledge that Pentagon was struck by a American Airlines 757 plane, but this is not what really happenend http://www.sodaro.com/Plone/ps/
Wasn't it a public knowledge that Pentagon was struck by a American Airlines 757 plane, but this is not what really happenend http://www.sodaro.com/Plone/ps/
Wasn't it a public knowledge that Pentagon was struck by a American Airlines 757 plane, but this is not what really happenend http://www.sodaro.com/Plone/ps/
WalMart is the biggest monopoly ever, not just because of its number of stores and its corporate influence on justice department/politicians, but because WalMart influences everyones lives. Its a retail chain that sells everything for less, albeit by arm twisting the suppliers to sell for less and in the process killing the local economy. Not that I side with the Labels, they too are monopolistic and cold blooded killers of talent. So its good they are tasting their own medicine. What I would like to see happen is cap the number of stores WalMart can open in a county, cap the quantity of items WalMart can import from China, have a government run complaint cell where these suppliers can complain about arm twisting (that will build enough evidence for Anti Trust lawsuit) and last but not the least break up WalMart into W A L M A R T (thats 7) baby marts. I am not that afraid of the labels, because proliferation of P2P, secure P2Ps, pirated CDs, online music stores are already teaching them a lesson. -stegano
If David Blunkett has his way then days of GATTACA aren't far away and then we will need one too many Vincent to democratize the system. Its really Scary.