The battle now, is to end the privacy/secrecy for THEM. In other words, get gov't transparency, corporate transparency.
They won't give it up easy, their one-way information flow.
So, when you get them, what will you do with the nuclear missile submarine patrol routes, the list of intelligence agents abroad, the list of organized crime informants, the list of foreign spies being watched, and the encryption keys for the embassies in other countries? Those are some of the secrets the government holds. Are you and everyone in your city trustworthy enough to have and protect them so that the information remains confidential?
Interesting... your first reaction is to call names instead of offer counterarguments or provide evidence to the contrary.
The only thing I've been "outed" on is something that has never been hidden - that I have a different viewpoint that is supported by data.
Some have claimed I'm a "shill" because they can often only call names instead of challenge the data or argument in a meaningful way. You seem to be in that category.
This is how the Cheka started. Countering counterrevolutionary terrorism by becoming state terrorists.
The Cheka didn't counter "counterrevolutionary terrorism," it suppressed counterrevolution and resistance to the Communist program. It used state terror to do so.
Don't go stupid about terrorism and claim everything is terrorism unless it actually is. Not washing your hands after using the loo is unsanitary, not terrorism. Planting bombs on London busses is terrorism.
It is easy to make stupid mistakes in judgment if you are sloppy in your thinking about these matters.
What enemy, you ask? Well, that would (generally) be the citizens and the alternative and independent media that hasn't been compromised or taken over.
It looks like you are guessing, and are way off the mark. Try again.... here is a hint.
Judge Anna Brown has not concluded whether the government's use of the no-fly list violated the plaintiffss constitutional rights to due process, stating in her opinion that, "the court is not yet able to resolve on the current record whether the judicial-review process is a sufficient, post-deprivation process under the United States Constitution." Brown has given both parties till September 9 to file a joint status report setting out their recommendation as to the most effective process to ensure that the court may come to a conclusion on the remaining issues
So there are still some big issues to resolve, before the practically inevitable appeals begin.
There will be some tough issues to work through since no doubt some of the evidence in individual cases is classified. Still, there should be some sort of process to have information in one's favor considered. Both sides have a point.
You may not live in fear, but you live in poverty, a poverty of understanding. What I listed isn't scare tactics, but simply issues that have to be faced in the world by the United States. There is no requirement for you to face them, but you shouldn't pretend to understand them when you don't. Trying to pretend that Iran is peaceful when it is one of the key sponsors of terrorism in the world, threatens genocide against Israel, and menaces its neighbors in the region shows you are either badly uninformed, or disingenuous, to be kind. Most of Iran's neighbors are buying large amounts of arms due to Iranian threats. Iraq has been plagued by Iranian agents equipping and training anti-government militias, bribing members of the government, and targeted US and coalition troops trying to restore civil government to Iraq. Iran has been directly linked with terrorist attacks against Americans, including the Beirut bombing that killed 299 American and French soldiers and marines there for peace keeping. Iran has repeatedly threatened to block the Persian Gulf oil routes, a key energy supply for the world, and to cut European petroleum supplies to freeze people in the winter. The "democracy" that you refer to in Iran was gone before the US helped restore the Shah to power. If you trouble yourself to become informed, you will find that the former prime minister had dissolved the legislature, faked an election, was ruling by decree indefinitely, and ignored the last check on his power - the right of a constitutional monarch to dismiss the prime minister. Calling Iran a democracy at the time is a sick joke.
So you claim, "Russia isn't planning to bomb the world"? Who told you? And why do you believe them? Russia has threatened nuclear weapons strikes against NATO for planning to install a limited missile defense against Iran. They have restarted the former Soviet practice of probing American and NATO nation air defenses with nuclear bombers and submarines. They have engaged in practice nuclear strikes against US bases on Guam. In the 1960s, the Soviet Union (of which Russia was the heart) sought US acquiescence to a nuclear decapitation strike they wished to perform against China. The US said NO. I doubt Russian nuclear strategy is much different. They are probably even more reliant upon nuclear weapons for deterrence since the Russian military is a mere shadow of the Soviet military, and reform is faltering. If you have definite knowledge, perhaps you could share it with the American and European defense community?
If you want "Japan to worry about Japan," then you should be ready for a nuclear armed Japan, and terrified neighbors. The Japanese have rockets that they regularly use to orbit satellites, including spy satellites. They have a large and highly competent nuclear industry. They could have ICBMs with nuclear warheads very quickly, if they chose to. The North Koreans and Chinese have already given them incentive. Now, just mix in a little "cultural problem" in that many Japanese don't accept responsibility for waging aggressive war in WW2 and still honor the old ways, and the ingredients of trouble are assembled. Add to that the intense resentment held by many of Japans neighbors to its actions in WW2, and the brew is starting. Stir the pot with a growing movement to rewrite the Japanese "peace constitution" to remove its restrictions on using force, and the neighbors start getting nervous. Those nervous neighbors will buy more weapons and may poison the atmosphere with Japan. South Korea might very well arm with nuclear weapons too given a nuclear armed North Korea, China, and Japan. (And a "Japan looks out for Japan" policy that also implies a "South Korea looks out for South Korea.") The South Koreans already have brand new cruise missiles to fit them on. But hey! No worries! It's not like the economies of Japan, South Korea, China, and the US are related in any way, right?
Interesting fact about prohibition, after it ended alcohol consumption per capita was half what it was before prohibition, and it didn't return to pre-prohibition levels until the 1970s.
That's a handy club you have there. I notice there doesn't appear to be one for discussions of Soviet actions. I might have more to say about this later, but do you really think the world would be better off if the Soviet Union was still around invading and annexing lands to itself? Installing communist governments in captured territories? Fostering communist revolution around the world?
If you think the US was keeping the world a mess to sell arms or support, you may not have looked at the situation in the communist block nations, which were a bloody mess that was spreading through the world. The communists managed to kill 100,000,000 people in the last century, and created massive suffering and misery.
I will also add that some of the examples on that list are overblown or misleading as befits their nature as a club. Take Iran, for example. People keep posting about how the US "overthrew the democratically elected government in Iran." That is utter baloney. Democracy was gone from Iran before the US helped restore the Shah to power. The former prime minister had dissolved the legislature, faked an election, was ruling by decree indefinitely, and ignored the last check on his power - the right of a constitutional monarch to dismiss the prime minister. Calling Iran a democracy at the time is a sick joke. Various other examples on that list aren't too different from that classification. In other examples the US learned a valuable lesson to not repeat its action.
Western Europe has enjoyed peace and relative stability since the end of WW2. The US participation in NATO and the rebuilding of Europe played no small part in that. Other parts of the world are also better off as well. South Korea doesn't share in the oppression, starvation, and atrocities that are inflicted on the people of North Korea. Instead they have built a peaceful and prosperous society. Iraq is still finding its way, but the people there have a real chance. They have freely elected democratic government, and no more Saddam to steal the oil money to build palaces and buy weapons. The Poles found American support in the 1980s to be bracing.
I loved when Clapper tried to minimize the number by saying that it accounts for "less than 1% of GDP".
Given the significant percentage of GDP taken in taxes and spent by the government, it is a reasonable metric. In FY 2013, entitlement spending will be about 14.5% of GDP. Defense spending will be about 4% of GDP. There is additional discretionary spending, and interest payments as well. You can see the figures and trends here. The trends are not favorable.
Sorry, but it doesn't stop being classified if it is stolen and published. The only way it stops being classified is to be declassified in the usual way. There are lots of reasons for that.
Obama's (and the neocon's) response: bomb a civil war in the Middle East...
Just to be clear, are you advocating leaving the Syrian government in peace to use nerve gas on the population at will.... like Saddam was doing to the Kurds? Another Hama is OK? Just asking.
Sure, now that President Obma is in office the presidency is "like a piano player in a whorehouse." When President Bush was in office, he was alternately an evil super-genius / utter dolt that was responsible for everything under the sun, including the weather. My my, how times change when the ox being Gored isn't Al.
Because Syria launching chemical weapons makes about as much sense as Obama nuking Texas.
Do you have any "insightful" comments about Saddam's gassing of the Kurds? Interesting fact - Iraq was, and Syria is, ruled by the Ba'ath Party, and both have been bloodthirsty.
Are you playing the old "gateway drug" [clubchopper.com]card again?
The claim is the data supports it.
"Data from epidemiological studies have repeatedly shown an association between cannabis use and subsequent addiction to heavy drugs and psychosis (i.e. schizophrenia)," said Didier Jutras-Aswad, one of the researchers, in a news release. "Interestingly, the risk to develop such disorders after cannabis exposure is not the same for all individuals and is correlated with genetic factors, the intensity of cannabis use and the age at which it occurs. When the first exposure occurs in younger versus older adolescents, the impact of cannabis seems to be worse in regard to many outcomes such as mental health, education attainment, delinquency and ability to conform to adult role." -- More
Good, that's three days less that he can be doing other damage.
Like making sure Russia isn't cheating on its ballistic missile treaty obligations? Like looking for North Korea making preparations to launch missiles at Japan? Like Iran assembling a nuclear warhead? I think you have a "funny" idea there, probably more than one.
The budget is for intelligence, of which terrorism is just one slice. Other slices keep track of the ballistic missile and nuclear programs of Iran and North Korean. Another slice keeps tabs of Russia to check and see if it is cheating on its nuclear missile and conventional forces treaty obligations. Another slice is watching Russian submarines and bombers as they have restarted their probes of NATO and US/Canadian territory. Another slice is watching China and its occupation of territory claimed by India, and naval encroachments on many of its neighbors, including Japan and the Philippines. Another slice is tracking developments in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and many other places. Another part is probably watching the rise of fascist parties in various parts of Europe, such as Greece, Russia, and other countries. Another slice is watching Columbian drug cartels and their drug smuggling submarines, and the threat the cartels pose to the central government. Yet another slice is probably watching Iran's activities in Central America where they are allying with various terrorist groups and governments that consider themselves adversaries of the US. Another slice is watching arms shipments around the world, such as North Korea to Iran. Another slice is engaged in countering nuclear weapons proliferation. There are also exchanges with allies, both enduring and episodic, in which the US provides data to stop terrorism or aggression. There is way more to watch than that, lots of infrastructure to build and maintain, satellites to launch and monitor, data to process and analyze. Hopefully they'll be able to prevent a new Pearl Harbor or 9/11, and generally help to maintain as much peace in the world as possible.
If you think the intelligence agencies have to justify their own existence, you're kidding yourself.
Slashdot Mirror
The battle now, is to end the privacy/secrecy for THEM. In other words, get gov't transparency, corporate transparency.
They won't give it up easy, their one-way information flow.
So, when you get them, what will you do with the nuclear missile submarine patrol routes, the list of intelligence agents abroad, the list of organized crime informants, the list of foreign spies being watched, and the encryption keys for the embassies in other countries? Those are some of the secrets the government holds. Are you and everyone in your city trustworthy enough to have and protect them so that the information remains confidential?
Interesting... your first reaction is to call names instead of offer counterarguments or provide evidence to the contrary.
The only thing I've been "outed" on is something that has never been hidden - that I have a different viewpoint that is supported by data.
Some have claimed I'm a "shill" because they can often only call names instead of challenge the data or argument in a meaningful way. You seem to be in that category.
This is how the Cheka started. Countering counterrevolutionary terrorism by becoming state terrorists.
The Cheka didn't counter "counterrevolutionary terrorism," it suppressed counterrevolution and resistance to the Communist program. It used state terror to do so.
Don't go stupid about terrorism and claim everything is terrorism unless it actually is. Not washing your hands after using the loo is unsanitary, not terrorism. Planting bombs on London busses is terrorism.
It is easy to make stupid mistakes in judgment if you are sloppy in your thinking about these matters.
What enemy, you ask? Well, that would (generally) be the citizens and the alternative and independent media that hasn't been compromised or taken over.
It looks like you are guessing, and are way off the mark. Try again.... here is a hint.
At Least 4,000 Suspected of Terrorism-Related Activity in Britain, MI5 Director Says
London terror bomb plot: the four terrorists
7 July Bombings
From the article:
Judge Anna Brown has not concluded whether the government's use of the no-fly list violated the plaintiffss constitutional rights to due process, stating in her opinion that, "the court is not yet able to resolve on the current record whether the judicial-review process is a sufficient, post-deprivation process under the United States Constitution." Brown has given both parties till September 9 to file a joint status report setting out their recommendation as to the most effective process to ensure that the court may come to a conclusion on the remaining issues
So there are still some big issues to resolve, before the practically inevitable appeals begin.
There will be some tough issues to work through since no doubt some of the evidence in individual cases is classified. Still, there should be some sort of process to have information in one's favor considered. Both sides have a point.
Nerve gas is a chemical weapon. Chemical weapons are considered Weapons of Mass Destruction. There is considerable stigma to killing people with them.
You may not live in fear, but you live in poverty, a poverty of understanding. What I listed isn't scare tactics, but simply issues that have to be faced in the world by the United States. There is no requirement for you to face them, but you shouldn't pretend to understand them when you don't. Trying to pretend that Iran is peaceful when it is one of the key sponsors of terrorism in the world, threatens genocide against Israel, and menaces its neighbors in the region shows you are either badly uninformed, or disingenuous, to be kind. Most of Iran's neighbors are buying large amounts of arms due to Iranian threats. Iraq has been plagued by Iranian agents equipping and training anti-government militias, bribing members of the government, and targeted US and coalition troops trying to restore civil government to Iraq. Iran has been directly linked with terrorist attacks against Americans, including the Beirut bombing that killed 299 American and French soldiers and marines there for peace keeping. Iran has repeatedly threatened to block the Persian Gulf oil routes, a key energy supply for the world, and to cut European petroleum supplies to freeze people in the winter. The "democracy" that you refer to in Iran was gone before the US helped restore the Shah to power. If you trouble yourself to become informed, you will find that the former prime minister had dissolved the legislature, faked an election, was ruling by decree indefinitely, and ignored the last check on his power - the right of a constitutional monarch to dismiss the prime minister. Calling Iran a democracy at the time is a sick joke.
So you claim, "Russia isn't planning to bomb the world"? Who told you? And why do you believe them? Russia has threatened nuclear weapons strikes against NATO for planning to install a limited missile defense against Iran. They have restarted the former Soviet practice of probing American and NATO nation air defenses with nuclear bombers and submarines. They have engaged in practice nuclear strikes against US bases on Guam. In the 1960s, the Soviet Union (of which Russia was the heart) sought US acquiescence to a nuclear decapitation strike they wished to perform against China. The US said NO. I doubt Russian nuclear strategy is much different. They are probably even more reliant upon nuclear weapons for deterrence since the Russian military is a mere shadow of the Soviet military, and reform is faltering. If you have definite knowledge, perhaps you could share it with the American and European defense community?
If you want "Japan to worry about Japan," then you should be ready for a nuclear armed Japan, and terrified neighbors. The Japanese have rockets that they regularly use to orbit satellites, including spy satellites. They have a large and highly competent nuclear industry. They could have ICBMs with nuclear warheads very quickly, if they chose to. The North Koreans and Chinese have already given them incentive. Now, just mix in a little "cultural problem" in that many Japanese don't accept responsibility for waging aggressive war in WW2 and still honor the old ways, and the ingredients of trouble are assembled. Add to that the intense resentment held by many of Japans neighbors to its actions in WW2, and the brew is starting. Stir the pot with a growing movement to rewrite the Japanese "peace constitution" to remove its restrictions on using force, and the neighbors start getting nervous. Those nervous neighbors will buy more weapons and may poison the atmosphere with Japan. South Korea might very well arm with nuclear weapons too given a nuclear armed North Korea, China, and Japan. (And a "Japan looks out for Japan" policy that also implies a "South Korea looks out for South Korea.") The South Koreans already have brand new cruise missiles to fit them on. But hey! No worries! It's not like the economies of Japan, South Korea, China, and the US are related in any way, right?
America may not b
Interesting fact about prohibition, after it ended alcohol consumption per capita was half what it was before prohibition, and it didn't return to pre-prohibition levels until the 1970s.
Did Prohibition Really Work? Alcohol Prohibition as a Public Health Innovation
That's a handy club you have there. I notice there doesn't appear to be one for discussions of Soviet actions. I might have more to say about this later, but do you really think the world would be better off if the Soviet Union was still around invading and annexing lands to itself? Installing communist governments in captured territories? Fostering communist revolution around the world?
If you think the US was keeping the world a mess to sell arms or support, you may not have looked at the situation in the communist block nations, which were a bloody mess that was spreading through the world. The communists managed to kill 100,000,000 people in the last century, and created massive suffering and misery.
I will also add that some of the examples on that list are overblown or misleading as befits their nature as a club. Take Iran, for example. People keep posting about how the US "overthrew the democratically elected government in Iran." That is utter baloney. Democracy was gone from Iran before the US helped restore the Shah to power. The former prime minister had dissolved the legislature, faked an election, was ruling by decree indefinitely, and ignored the last check on his power - the right of a constitutional monarch to dismiss the prime minister. Calling Iran a democracy at the time is a sick joke. Various other examples on that list aren't too different from that classification. In other examples the US learned a valuable lesson to not repeat its action.
Western Europe has enjoyed peace and relative stability since the end of WW2. The US participation in NATO and the rebuilding of Europe played no small part in that. Other parts of the world are also better off as well. South Korea doesn't share in the oppression, starvation, and atrocities that are inflicted on the people of North Korea. Instead they have built a peaceful and prosperous society. Iraq is still finding its way, but the people there have a real chance. They have freely elected democratic government, and no more Saddam to steal the oil money to build palaces and buy weapons. The Poles found American support in the 1980s to be bracing.
I loved when Clapper tried to minimize the number by saying that it accounts for "less than 1% of GDP".
Given the significant percentage of GDP taken in taxes and spent by the government, it is a reasonable metric. In FY 2013, entitlement spending will be about 14.5% of GDP. Defense spending will be about 4% of GDP. There is additional discretionary spending, and interest payments as well. You can see the figures and trends here. The trends are not favorable.
Unfortunately it is mainly the wrong part of government that is "transparent." The culture of corruption continues.
The Summer of Corruption: The Plot Thickens
Obama’s Green Favor-Trading
The well runs deep.
-- it's just that you misunderstand the goal, which is really to funnel money into the privatized defence/intelligence community.
If you think that is the goal then it is possible there is more than one thing to misunderstand.
Sorry, but it doesn't stop being classified if it is stolen and published. The only way it stops being classified is to be declassified in the usual way. There are lots of reasons for that.
Obama's (and the neocon's) response: bomb a civil war in the Middle East...
Just to be clear, are you advocating leaving the Syrian government in peace to use nerve gas on the population at will.... like Saddam was doing to the Kurds? Another Hama is OK? Just asking.
Sure, now that President Obma is in office the presidency is "like a piano player in a whorehouse." When President Bush was in office, he was alternately an evil super-genius / utter dolt that was responsible for everything under the sun, including the weather. My my, how times change when the ox being Gored isn't Al.
Because Syria launching chemical weapons makes about as much sense as Obama nuking Texas.
Do you have any "insightful" comments about Saddam's gassing of the Kurds? Interesting fact - Iraq was, and Syria is, ruled by the Ba'ath Party, and both have been bloodthirsty.
By the way, the Syrian government has gassed people before: Hama 1982 – The Syrian massacre you never heard about
Are you playing the old "gateway drug" [clubchopper.com]card again?
The claim is the data supports it.
"Data from epidemiological studies have repeatedly shown an association between cannabis use and subsequent addiction to heavy drugs and psychosis (i.e. schizophrenia)," said Didier Jutras-Aswad, one of the researchers, in a news release. "Interestingly, the risk to develop such disorders after cannabis exposure is not the same for all individuals and is correlated with genetic factors, the intensity of cannabis use and the age at which it occurs. When the first exposure occurs in younger versus older adolescents, the impact of cannabis seems to be worse in regard to many outcomes such as mental health, education attainment, delinquency and ability to conform to adult role." -- More
Maybe you need to read the link. Marijuana use can lead to psychosis.
Quite agree.
Good, that's three days less that he can be doing other damage.
Like making sure Russia isn't cheating on its ballistic missile treaty obligations? Like looking for North Korea making preparations to launch missiles at Japan? Like Iran assembling a nuclear warhead? I think you have a "funny" idea there, probably more than one.
what are they spending it on?
I hear these sorts of things are useful, and expensive: KH-11
The budget is for intelligence, of which terrorism is just one slice. Other slices keep track of the ballistic missile and nuclear programs of Iran and North Korean. Another slice keeps tabs of Russia to check and see if it is cheating on its nuclear missile and conventional forces treaty obligations. Another slice is watching Russian submarines and bombers as they have restarted their probes of NATO and US/Canadian territory. Another slice is watching China and its occupation of territory claimed by India, and naval encroachments on many of its neighbors, including Japan and the Philippines. Another slice is tracking developments in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and many other places. Another part is probably watching the rise of fascist parties in various parts of Europe, such as Greece, Russia, and other countries. Another slice is watching Columbian drug cartels and their drug smuggling submarines, and the threat the cartels pose to the central government. Yet another slice is probably watching Iran's activities in Central America where they are allying with various terrorist groups and governments that consider themselves adversaries of the US. Another slice is watching arms shipments around the world, such as North Korea to Iran. Another slice is engaged in countering nuclear weapons proliferation. There are also exchanges with allies, both enduring and episodic, in which the US provides data to stop terrorism or aggression. There is way more to watch than that, lots of infrastructure to build and maintain, satellites to launch and monitor, data to process and analyze. Hopefully they'll be able to prevent a new Pearl Harbor or 9/11, and generally help to maintain as much peace in the world as possible.
If you think the intelligence agencies have to justify their own existence, you're kidding yourself.
That's not prior restraint, that's information labeling. Prior restraint is when the government says you can't publish it.
Maybe this is why?
Is Marijuana a Safe Drug? Teenage Brain at Risk for Drug Abuse
It will be funny till they find Noah's Ark.