This is the book we used for our Introduction to Digital Systems class here at Caltech. Not even a required EE course. Actually the core of the digital design classes for EE's here doesn't have a textbook, we get every thing from our lecturer (who is a Caltech alum). The man is a genius.
I agree in part that college is what you get out of it, but what you get out of college entirely depends on the environment that you are in. Given that, the environment is drastically different between Caltech and say, Michigan State, Cornell, or Smith. It is true that you can get an outstanding education at any college, my physics TA went to SUNY Stoney Brook. But a large part of what you get out of college is not just the academics, but the experiences. And quite frankly, the experience of being at Caltech or Harvard or MIT is so far removed from that of being at Berkeley or Cornell of Penn that there really is no comparison. Yes the top of the college list is incredibly crowded. But then again it's really quite difficult to convey what it is actually like at one of these places without you having been there. To understand you would have to experience it. So I guess that makes me wrong for railing on your first post, since I have no experience there:) but you should also take what we say with a grain of salt. I am impressed that you have been responding to all the comments posted to you, mostly in an intelligent manner. If you keep acting like this maybe you will improve our opinions of "spoiled rich kids."
> That being said however, you said you've seen kids who've burned out in 'lower middle' class areas.
Let me clarify, my suburb was lower middle class. There was very little burnout at my highschool, the kids that I am talking about that burned out in highschool were in the upper class suburbs. Granted, it's not as rich a community as several in long island, or the ones in Princeton, NJ, but it is every part of the "social life" that you so aptly described.
> You seem to see a certain sickness in the 'preppy' situation. I couldn't agree with you more. That is exactly my point.
Thank you for making that clear, I didn't catch that in your first post, but I may have just been blinded by my prejudices.
> Do you really believe those surveys?
Of course I don't believe those surveys. The schools aren't rated in a static and consistent manner, and some of the categories the schools are ranked in are questionable. Maybe you noticed that when the most recent college rankings came out, the president of Stanford called for a boycott of the rankings by the top schools. One of the points he made was that Caltech always lost points in the rankings for have a very low graduation rate (around 80%) compared to the high 90's that the Ivy league schools had. He made the point that Caltech shouldn't be penalized for making classes hard enough that students had difficulty passing. There are other places we lose points, one of them being campus diversity (there are no african-americans in the class that just entered, and maybe 7 in my class), and another being that we don't have a great deal of programs because we are so small. I admit I may have overstated the admissions process when related to sons and daughters of alumni, but they are still admitted more easily than other students, there is no denying that. We don't even need to go into the bias against white males. I have two friends whose rejection letters from MIT said "We cannot admit you at this time because you do not add enough ethnic diversity to the campus."
>But its not so great if you realize that perhaps you're not smart enough, not motivated enough, sick of that life, or perhaps you'd just be happier teaching high school...
Or perhaps you'd just be happier teaching highschool? I know you didn't mean this as a bad thing, but I feel obligated to call you on it anyway. I'm just wondering what you mean here. Some of the happiest people I know are highschool teachers. The best teacher at my highschool used to own his own business and was very successful, but he decided he would be happier teaching. Most of the people from my highschool want to be teachers, so they can help and try to make a difference. Personally, I think that's better than going out to try and make money, since they are going to be directly trying to make kids' lives better.
Not motivated enough? That's something that's easily changed. You just find something you love doing, and it's easy to be motivated enough.
>But what you GET out of college depends far more on the individual than the college.
Obviously. But I just felt I had to say something about this, because everyone here, even the biology majors, could transfer to Harvard as senior math or senior phys majors after just two years here. Sometimes it is what you get out of the college, but sometimes it's what the college puts into you.
Personally, I think you're full of s***. I'm from a lower middle-class family, in a white trash town in upstate New York. And hey, I went to a pretty crappy public highschool, the worst one in the county. I would have had a better education had I been in the city instead of my particular suburb. But I still did things at my highschool, I didn't just sit around and smoke pot. I played three varsity sports, I was in every academic competition team that we had, and I was in our marching band and stage bands. Why? Because I wanted to, not because my parents made me. I pushed myself to achieve what I have. I didn't have my parents pushing me because of "principles" or some b.s. like that. I saw the kids in accelerated programs at the wealthier public highschools being burned out before they were even seniors by what the schools and their parents PUSHED them to do. And yes, then they go from their great public highschool to one of those nice Ivy League colleges on the east coast because that's where mommy or daddy went, so they are just waved in by admissions, they coast through because of grade inflation and the general ease of passing, even at Harvard or Princeton and Yale, graduate and go to get their MBA, or go to law school or med school, marry another nice rich person from the Ivy's that dresses only in Abercrombie and Fitch (et al.) and propagate the cycle.
So you'll forgive me if I'm a little put off by your diatribe, since I'm at Caltech (note: the #1 school in the nation, better than Harvard even) purely on my own merits, not because I went to a great highschool (it sucked), not because my parents are rich (we're not, I said that), but because I actually accomplished something for myself.
When I graduate I'm going to form a start-up with my best friend from my little white trash town. And even if I manage to make a good deal of mine my kids are still going to go to a public highschool and succeed on their own merits. If they aren't good enough to go to Caltech, so be it, I won't have them go here just because I did. That would be denying someone else who actually deserves the spot at the school the ability to go there. Children of alumni are admitted at a 2:1 rate over other kids at the Ivy's. The cycle propagates itself, and it isn't going to end. So stop bitching at us because you were privileged, those of us who weren't so lucky don't want to hear about your so-called hardships.
So I'm a white, straight, catholic male. I have friends who were rejected from MIT because "They did not add enough ethnic diversity to the campus." And of course there's all sorts of Chinese organizations and Women's groups here at Caltech. So myself and some of my friends are thinking of starting SCUM. Straight Caucasian Undergraduate Males. We expect that, since we are SCUM, the women won't mind our group, and we might actually get funding. So all of you that are truly SCUM, come join us!
Slashdot Mirror
This is the book we used for our Introduction to Digital Systems class here at Caltech. Not even a required EE course. Actually the core of the digital design classes for EE's here doesn't have a textbook, we get every thing from our lecturer (who is a Caltech alum). The man is a genius.
I agree in part that college is what you get out of it, but what you get out of college entirely depends on the environment that you are in. Given that, the environment is drastically different between Caltech and say, Michigan State, Cornell, or Smith. It is true that you can get an outstanding education at any college, my physics TA went to SUNY Stoney Brook. But a large part of what you get out of college is not just the academics, but the experiences. And quite frankly, the experience of being at Caltech or Harvard or MIT is so far removed from that of being at Berkeley or Cornell of Penn that there really is no comparison. Yes the top of the college list is incredibly crowded. But then again it's really quite difficult to convey what it is actually like at one of these places without you having been there. To understand you would have to experience it. So I guess that makes me wrong for railing on your first post, since I have no experience there :) but you should also take what we say with a grain of salt. I am impressed that you have been responding to all the comments posted to you, mostly in an intelligent manner. If you keep acting like this maybe you will improve our opinions of "spoiled rich kids."
> That being said however, you said you've seen kids who've burned out in 'lower middle' class areas.
Let me clarify, my suburb was lower middle class. There was very little burnout at my highschool, the kids that I am talking about that burned out in highschool were in the upper class suburbs. Granted, it's not as rich a community as several in long island, or the ones in Princeton, NJ, but it is every part of the "social life" that you so aptly described.
> You seem to see a certain sickness in the 'preppy' situation. I couldn't agree with you more. That is exactly my point.
Thank you for making that clear, I didn't catch that in your first post, but I may have just been blinded by my prejudices.
> Do you really believe those surveys?
Of course I don't believe those surveys. The schools aren't rated in a static and consistent manner, and some of the categories the schools are ranked in are questionable. Maybe you noticed that when the most recent college rankings came out, the president of Stanford called for a boycott of the rankings by the top schools. One of the points he made was that Caltech always lost points in the rankings for have a very low graduation rate (around 80%) compared to the high 90's that the Ivy league schools had. He made the point that Caltech shouldn't be penalized for making classes hard enough that students had difficulty passing. There are other places we lose points, one of them being campus diversity (there are no african-americans in the class that just entered, and maybe 7 in my class), and another being that we don't have a great deal of programs because we are so small. I admit I may have overstated the admissions process when related to sons and daughters of alumni, but they are still admitted more easily than other students, there is no denying that. We don't even need to go into the bias against white males. I have two friends whose rejection letters from MIT said "We cannot admit you at this time because you do not add enough ethnic diversity to the campus."
>But its not so great if you realize that perhaps you're not smart enough, not motivated enough, sick of that life, or perhaps you'd just be happier teaching high school...
Or perhaps you'd just be happier teaching highschool? I know you didn't mean this as a bad thing, but I feel obligated to call you on it anyway. I'm just wondering what you mean here. Some of the happiest people I know are highschool teachers. The best teacher at my highschool used to own his own business and was very successful, but he decided he would be happier teaching. Most of the people from my highschool want to be teachers, so they can help and try to make a difference. Personally, I think that's better than going out to try and make money, since they are going to be directly trying to make kids' lives better.
Not motivated enough? That's something that's easily changed. You just find something you love doing, and it's easy to be motivated enough.
>But what you GET out of college depends far more on the individual than the college.
Obviously. But I just felt I had to say something about this, because everyone here, even the biology majors, could transfer to Harvard as senior math or senior phys majors after just two years here. Sometimes it is what you get out of the college, but sometimes it's what the college puts into you.
So I may get flamed for this, I don't care.
Personally, I think you're full of s***. I'm from a lower middle-class family, in a white trash town in upstate New York. And hey, I went to a pretty crappy public highschool, the worst one in the county. I would have had a better education had I been in the city instead of my particular suburb. But I still did things at my highschool, I didn't just sit around and smoke pot. I played three varsity sports, I was in every academic competition team that we had, and I was in our marching band and stage bands. Why? Because I wanted to, not because my parents made me. I pushed myself to achieve what I have. I didn't have my parents pushing me because of "principles" or some b.s. like that. I saw the kids in accelerated programs at the wealthier public highschools being burned out before they were even seniors by what the schools and their parents PUSHED them to do. And yes, then they go from their great public highschool to one of those nice Ivy League colleges on the east coast because that's where mommy or daddy went, so they are just waved in by admissions, they coast through because of grade inflation and the general ease of passing, even at Harvard or Princeton and Yale, graduate and go to get their MBA, or go to law school or med school, marry another nice rich person from the Ivy's that dresses only in Abercrombie and Fitch (et al.) and propagate the cycle.
So you'll forgive me if I'm a little put off by your diatribe, since I'm at Caltech (note: the #1 school in the nation, better than Harvard even) purely on my own merits, not because I went to a great highschool (it sucked), not because my parents are rich (we're not, I said that), but because I actually accomplished something for myself.
When I graduate I'm going to form a start-up with my best friend from my little white trash town. And even if I manage to make a good deal of mine my kids are still going to go to a public highschool and succeed on their own merits. If they aren't good enough to go to Caltech, so be it, I won't have them go here just because I did. That would be denying someone else who actually deserves the spot at the school the ability to go there. Children of alumni are admitted at a 2:1 rate over other kids at the Ivy's. The cycle propagates itself, and it isn't going to end. So stop bitching at us because you were privileged, those of us who weren't so lucky don't want to hear about your so-called hardships.
moller
So I'm a white, straight, catholic male. I have friends who were rejected from MIT because "They did not add enough ethnic diversity to the campus." And of course there's all sorts of Chinese organizations and Women's groups here at Caltech. So myself and some of my friends are thinking of starting SCUM. Straight Caucasian Undergraduate Males. We expect that, since we are SCUM, the women won't mind our group, and we might actually get funding. So all of you that are truly SCUM, come join us!