Again I have to express my feelings the Linux community. The Linux community is far too hostile. You scare off users and windows programmers (there are millions of us, and most of us are as talented as you).
It's not about acting professional(you prolly hate that word), it's about acting mature and having tollerance.
IT Laughed and shook my head at disbelief and formated my partition and put NT 4 back on. NT 4 is mroe powerfull and it has things like uh diskadministrator that IS NOT EVEN INCLUDED IN w2000. I COULD ONLY DEFRAG THE DISK AND USE SCANDISK ONLY IN W2000 SERVER ONLY! NO DISK ADMIN, NO user manager for domains, no server manager. Nothing. What a piece of crap and all these features removed took 100 megs of ram to boot and 375 threads. hahahah You idiot. First of all, Windows 2000 runs fine on my machine with 64MB (K6200) but runs smoother now i've added another 128MB. Second, Windows 2000 has MORE features. The disk administrator, user manager, server manager etc are now all in the new MMC called Computer Manager. It's in the Administrative Tools menu (check your taskbar properties and make sure you have Administrative Tools enabled. Alternatively you can get to Computer Manager by right clicking on "My Computer" and choosing "Manage". Everything is in there... User/Group manager Device Manager (much like Win9x's) Service Manager Server Manager Event Logs Disk Administrator Shares System Infomation Performance Logs and more!!! Windows 2000's features blows NT4 away. For god sakes, Windows 2000 even comes with a telnet server. The new CMD.exe even makes it worth it. And Windows 2000 profesional comes with scandisk and defrag...what are you crapping on about?
Windows has had scripting for a while. I think that WSH (windows scripting) was hidden somewhere in IE5..i think. You can download it from microsoft.com anyway. WSH supports many plugin able languages. but comes with vbscript, jscript and perlscript.
You can do ANYTHING with it since you can call java or com objects from it. Very powerful indeed.
It was a $150 investment, wasn't part of any settlement (they were all thrown out of court). Part of the agreement made IE the default browser on Macs.
Well, I'm running Windows 2000, and I believe that stabilty isn't an issue. Linux hasn't been very nice to me when i run outof space either.
Windows 2000 has a console based 'safe mode' as well as a GUI based 'safe mode'.
NT *could* handle kernel mode drivers that crash. But microsoft decided that it was better to call a STOP and prevent any damage to data that usually occurs when drivers/processes start overwriting memory they shouldn't. Lower previledge drivers - hrm, i dunno. Jini based devices sound quite good, it's the device that would crash;).
1. Yes true. But never the less. It has more hardware support. 2. Yes. NT secures system memory and 2000 secures system dlls/etc too. 3. I am aware of corba and KOM (and even mozilla's COM) but there has yet to be a set standard which everyone is willing to use. My point was, noone is using the stuff to it's potential like in Windows. I'm also shocked at how long it's taking the unix community to catch onto corba. 4. well,lets just say,i feel safer with windows as a gui. i use e and kde mostly. 5. good:) 6. Linux is Unix-like. But calling it Unix ain't bad. I don't see the big deal.
Windows gets bigger, and better. Most of the space of windows is help files, images, drivers. Linux ain't that slim you know. You canslim windows down by deleting unneeded stuff (like linux). Don't compare Default Windows with slimmed down Linux.
I don't totally agree with that guy, but I'm going to take this oppurtunity to blabber stuff that's been hanging around in my mind for while. While Unix and Linux have certainly evolved over the past 30 years, their architecture hasn't undergone fundamental revisions as has Windows. You can argue that this is cause Windows started off quite inferior, and I would agree, but lately, the technology boom in Windows has been quite incredible, while Linux has only been playing catch up. Windows supports the most hardware, and with Windows 2000, stability appears to be a non-issue. Unix has had 30 years to create a decent GUI. Windows has had less time, and has succeeded in making a STABLE GUI based OS that has millions of developers and users. Certainly, with in the next few years, we'll see other forms of communication like voice/speech form windows. How long it'll take Unix to catch up, I don't know. When Linux starts getting 3rd party propreitry drivers from hardware manufactueres, you'll find how unstable the kernel can become.
Windows 2000 has a standard way of cross process communication (COM/+) and a common way to share components (COM/ActiveX). It's funny to see how many ways Unix programmers try to do the same thing. Sometimes they copy and paste code, and cross process communication is done using sockets or pipes etc..taking much longer development time, and more chance of errors in coding. True, some people think that harder is better, but I prefer to concentrate on doing the meat of the code, than doing something like communication over and over and over and over again in different projects. COM is brilliant, infact it'sso brilliant that the Mozilla team have based their object model on COM.
Windows has managed to make things simple, but not stupid (like has happened with MacOS). I'm running Windows 2000 and Redhat 6 at home. Windows 2000 kicks ass by far when it comes to a workstation and general purpose machine. I can productively use it for many things. But with linux, X leaves a lot to be desired, and I'm always afraid to start doing anything in XFree less it crash on me. Linux's advantage is it's open source model. It's free, and that's attractive to many people (I think free attracts more people than opensource). Linux's disadvantages are it's lack of desktop maturity and *sometimes* annoying community who run around like religous fanatics. Now that I mention it, that's the thing that puts me off Linux the most, the hostility of the community (especially to anything Microsoft). A couple of decades ago, Microsoft came along and charged incredibly low prices for products which cost many times more on Unix platforms. Microsoft was a small company, made up of students and people, reminicent of Linux developers today. If Linux succeeds, perhaps in 20 years we'll see an uprising against Linux vendors.
Linus torvalds will have everyone believe that people developing source outside of company normally produce better products cause they are passionate about the work and not because they want to get paid. That's full of crock. Is Linus' work at Transmeta going to be low quality cause he's getting paid todo it? I don't buy the arguments that the above only applies to software development. When's Transmeta giving away it's products to the world anyway?
Bah, that was a messy message, but you get where I'm coming from:)
I can't understand it. The best IDE written in Java is NetBeans. But my machine can't handle it. You'd think something as *good* as Java should have IDEs written in Java.
I would suggest the ms usb natural keyboard but they changed the design on me:( now the arrow keys are bunched up together. aparently compaq and co thought the keyboards were too big >:|
Yep, I'd prefer to run a cruddy OS without memory protection, a command prompt, support for one mouse button and no basic internet software like a telnet client.
I don't get what you mean when you talk about VB looking immature. If you talk about Java + J/Direct, then *maybe* cause in that case Java has the ability to use all the features of VB (even advantaced collections like VB's dictionary object - which however is in Java2). The advantage Java has over VB in the case where it can use ActiveX components is it's language, style and simplicity. It still lacks low level abilities like pointers which you can emulate in VB. (Try passing a StringBuffer pointer to a C function and expecting it to be a contiguous char array). Many of the features of Java were 'borrowed' from VB. Big examples of this are the VB like IDEs coming out (VB did pioneer this).
Personally, I'm not going towrite a windows app in pure Java if I can't even support 2 or 3 button mice!!! The com and lpt port support also still sucks.
IMHO Windows Software is usually much faster than X software. Ever used DirectX BTW? You imply in your statement than MS is slow like java...uh NO!
And you've never used the MS Java SDK have you? Microsoft Java is about 5X faster than Sun's version. Just try using the JavaMedia player with java.exe and then with jview.exe, jview(MS) lays videos without skipping. Microsoft's Java VM is one of the fastest(if not, the fastest) VM out there.
I'm complaining about a current product. I don't care if it's soon to be obselete. That's irrelevant. I'm complaning about NS4, the product - didn't say anything about mozilla or IE6, it wasn't part of what I was saying.
I think mozilla will be a good thing, but like 99.9% of the open source world I'm not contributing at the moment although I wouldn't not contribute given time and a good reason.
And IE does support more standards than NS4 at the moment. It's more complete DHTML support, CCS support etc. Sure some of those models may have proprietry additions, but there is definitely more support. Microsoft did submit their DOM to standards guys to view over.
Um, why do you think Plam and Plam/Java is better than WinCE?
WinCE is a general purpose embedded OS. Supports color, sound, PCMCIA and is also not controlled by a hardware manufacturer, so there are many manufacturers.
Personally, I think having a PalmPC that can play colour MPEGS is way cooler than a Palm (I own a Plam tho cause I bought it a couple of years ago). Java for CE will come out soon (and since CE has a decent GUI engine, it'll support Swing and AWT properly). The new Plams have the advantage of being smaller tho.
Even on Linux, I prefer to use KDE or HotJava than Netscape. It's slow at rendering, and loading.
Has anyone ever seen how badly it's paginating algorythm is? Whenever i resize the browser window, it has to repaginate the entire page. Sometimes it reloads it off the server again! I would never dare to try resizing the window while it's still downloading a page, sometimes it just craps up and never draws the page.
IE on the other hand is multithreaded, but not only that has a decent pagination routine. If I resize the browser window, the page doesn't need to be redrawn, if images will move close or further apart as do DIVs, tables, cells and everything else. It even works while IE is still downloading.
And in navigator, when you click on a link, the entire page is locked!!! So i can't click on another link while the current one is loading. It's no suprise that implementing DHTML to the extend IE does is a difficult job for Netscape, since they reply on just rerendering the entire page whenever something changes. Lame.
Also, font support on Netscape are all stuffed.
Do you people realise IE supports more web standards than Netscape? So what if it has some *extra* features.
Some of the problems i mentioned like fonts are probably for cross platform compatability. But the pagination problems are unconfigurable.
I used to write most of my apps in VB, complementing VB code sometimes with C++ code written in ATL (as activex components). Usually tho, I found I didn't have a need. VB supports everything I could possibly want (except X platform), certainly, it supports more of what i need than Java does. Try access the parallel port from pure X platform Java for example - very difficult. Lately, I've been working on both MFC and Java. MFC is *almost* as simple as VB in terms than you can draw forms, and write 'events' (which are really just overidden class members. You just need to know a lot about C++ and C functions as well as the Windows API. Java is a beutiful language, but it's slow, limited, and is too immature for many things - but I can see it will continue to grow.
What I think is funny is that a lot of/. people seem to complain about the speed of windows or something (maybe they don't use X), but then have no problem with Java. I see a lot of Java, VB and C++ in my future.
Re:MS conceeded to developers...COM+ supports
on
Java-Clone Announced
·
· Score: 1
After years of saying NO. Microsoft decided to conceed to their developers' demands. (sign of the times i guess).
Use C++ style syntax in Java. The all time best move ever. Lets say we create a language with all of VB's features, but with C style syntax...people would immediately say, ahh now that's a real programming language.
What makes people think something is lower level or is a 'real language' is less how the language works, but what it looks like. The VB language relies a lot on the IDE and unlike C++, it doesn't describe every single thing going on to detail...it presumes many things from the IDE. But since it's built on ActiveX, it doesn't really need to describe much. Java & Javabeans are pretty much the same - the code just looks nicer - much nicer.
Slashdot Mirror
Flames come from both sides of the turret. But usually the Linux side is left on even during the night.
Again I have to express my feelings the Linux community.
The Linux community is far too hostile. You scare off users and windows programmers (there are millions of us, and most of us are as talented as you).
It's not about acting professional(you prolly hate that word), it's about acting mature and having tollerance.
IT Laughed and shook my head at disbelief and formated my partition and put NT 4 back on. NT 4 is mroe powerfull and it has things like uh diskadministrator that IS NOT EVEN INCLUDED IN w2000. I COULD ONLY DEFRAG THE DISK AND USE SCANDISK ONLY IN W2000 SERVER ONLY! NO DISK ADMIN, NO user manager for domains, no server manager. Nothing. What a piece of crap and all these features removed took 100 megs of ram to boot and 375 threads. hahahah You idiot. First of all, Windows 2000 runs fine on my machine with 64MB (K6200) but runs smoother now i've added another 128MB. Second, Windows 2000 has MORE features. The disk administrator, user manager, server manager etc are now all in the new MMC called Computer Manager. It's in the Administrative Tools menu (check your taskbar properties and make sure you have Administrative Tools enabled. Alternatively you can get to Computer Manager by right clicking on "My Computer" and choosing "Manage". Everything is in there... User/Group manager Device Manager (much like Win9x's) Service Manager Server Manager Event Logs Disk Administrator Shares System Infomation Performance Logs and more!!! Windows 2000's features blows NT4 away. For god sakes, Windows 2000 even comes with a telnet server. The new CMD.exe even makes it worth it. And Windows 2000 profesional comes with scandisk and defrag...what are you crapping on about?
Windows has had scripting for a while. I think that WSH (windows scripting) was hidden somewhere in IE5..i think. You can download it from microsoft.com anyway.
WSH supports many plugin able languages. but comes with vbscript, jscript and perlscript.
You can do ANYTHING with it since you can call java or com objects from it. Very powerful indeed.
It was a $150 investment, wasn't part of any settlement (they were all thrown out of court).
Part of the agreement made IE the default browser on Macs.
Well, I'm running Windows 2000, and I believe that stabilty isn't an issue. Linux hasn't been very nice to me when i run outof space either.
;).
Windows 2000 has a console based 'safe mode' as well as a GUI based 'safe mode'.
NT *could* handle kernel mode drivers that crash. But microsoft decided that it was better to call a STOP and prevent any damage to data that usually occurs when drivers/processes start overwriting memory they shouldn't. Lower previledge drivers - hrm, i dunno. Jini based devices sound quite good, it's the device that would crash
1. Yes true. But never the less. It has more hardware support. :)
2. Yes. NT secures system memory and 2000 secures system dlls/etc too.
3. I am aware of corba and KOM (and even mozilla's COM) but there has yet to be a set standard which everyone is willing to use. My point was, noone is using the stuff to it's potential like in Windows. I'm also shocked at how long it's taking the unix community to catch onto corba.
4. well,lets just say,i feel safer with windows as a gui. i use e and kde mostly.
5. good
6. Linux is Unix-like. But calling it Unix ain't bad. I don't see the big deal.
Windows gets bigger, and better. Most of the space of windows is help files, images, drivers.
Linux ain't that slim you know. You canslim windows down by deleting unneeded stuff (like linux). Don't compare Default Windows with slimmed down Linux.
I don't totally agree with that guy, but I'm going to take this oppurtunity to blabber stuff that's been hanging around in my mind for while.
:)
While Unix and Linux have certainly evolved over the past 30 years, their architecture hasn't undergone fundamental revisions as has Windows. You can argue that this is cause Windows started off quite inferior, and I would agree, but lately, the technology boom in Windows has been quite incredible, while Linux has only been playing catch up.
Windows supports the most hardware, and with Windows 2000, stability appears to be a non-issue. Unix has had 30 years to create a decent GUI. Windows has had less time, and has succeeded in making a STABLE GUI based OS that has millions of developers and users.
Certainly, with in the next few years, we'll see other forms of communication like voice/speech form windows. How long it'll take Unix to catch up, I don't know.
When Linux starts getting 3rd party propreitry drivers from hardware manufactueres, you'll find how unstable the kernel can become.
Windows 2000 has a standard way of cross process communication (COM/+) and a common way to share components (COM/ActiveX). It's funny to see how many ways Unix programmers try to do the same thing. Sometimes they copy and paste code, and cross process communication is done using sockets or pipes etc..taking much longer development time, and more chance of errors in coding. True, some people think that harder is better, but I prefer to concentrate on doing the meat of the code, than doing something like communication over and over and over and over again in different projects. COM is brilliant, infact it'sso brilliant that the Mozilla team have based their object model on COM.
Windows has managed to make things simple, but not stupid (like has happened with MacOS).
I'm running Windows 2000 and Redhat 6 at home. Windows 2000 kicks ass by far when it comes to a workstation and general purpose machine. I can productively use it for many things. But with linux, X leaves a lot to be desired, and I'm always afraid to start doing anything in XFree less it crash on me.
Linux's advantage is it's open source model. It's free, and that's attractive to many people (I think free attracts more people than opensource).
Linux's disadvantages are it's lack of desktop maturity and *sometimes* annoying community who run around like religous fanatics. Now that I mention it, that's the thing that puts me off Linux the most, the hostility of the community (especially to anything Microsoft).
A couple of decades ago, Microsoft came along and charged incredibly low prices for products which cost many times more on Unix platforms. Microsoft was a small company, made up of students and people, reminicent of Linux developers today.
If Linux succeeds, perhaps in 20 years we'll see an uprising against Linux vendors.
Linus torvalds will have everyone believe that people developing source outside of company normally produce better products cause they are passionate about the work and not because they want to get paid. That's full of crock. Is Linus' work at Transmeta going to be low quality cause he's getting paid todo it? I don't buy the arguments that the above only applies to software development. When's Transmeta giving away it's products to the world anyway?
Bah, that was a messy message, but you get where I'm coming from
I can't understand it. The best IDE written in Java is NetBeans. But my machine can't handle it.
You'd think something as *good* as Java should have IDEs written in Java.
I would suggest the ms usb natural keyboard but they changed the design on me :(
now the arrow keys are bunched up together. aparently compaq and co thought the keyboards were too big >:|
Yep, I'd prefer to run a cruddy OS without memory protection, a command prompt, support for one mouse button and no basic internet software like a telnet client.
Ofcourse win98 supports multiple USB adapters and multiple USB hubs.
Try seeing how well linux supports USB.
Why does everyone, including Microsoft use foo? :\
;))
I think I've missed something
is it the same reason why everyone uses i for counters?
(cause everyone else does
That made my day. I'll be chuckling all day ;)
:D
When you have something working, I wouldn't mind firing up my C64 or an emulator to play
It's part of the new NTFS file system :)
I wonder if someone will write a JVM for the C64 ;)
;)
On a more serious note, do people prefer follow Java style and put { brackets at the end of the line, rather than on a new line?
eg.
public void blah() {
}
or
public void blah()
{
}
I must admit, I'm even using the Java style in C...saves a line of code - which means you can see more
I don't get what you mean when you talk about VB looking immature.
If you talk about Java + J/Direct, then *maybe* cause in that case Java has the ability to use all the features of VB (even advantaced collections like VB's dictionary object - which however is in Java2).
The advantage Java has over VB in the case where it can use ActiveX components is it's language, style and simplicity. It still lacks low level abilities like pointers which you can emulate in VB. (Try passing a StringBuffer pointer to a C function and expecting it to be a contiguous char array).
Many of the features of Java were 'borrowed' from VB. Big examples of this are the VB like IDEs coming out (VB did pioneer this).
Personally, I'm not going towrite a windows app in pure Java if I can't even support 2 or 3 button mice!!!
The com and lpt port support also still sucks.
IMHO Windows Software is usually much faster than X software. Ever used DirectX BTW?
You imply in your statement than MS is slow like java...uh NO!
And you've never used the MS Java SDK have you?
Microsoft Java is about 5X faster than Sun's version. Just try using the JavaMedia player with java.exe and then with jview.exe, jview(MS) lays videos without skipping.
Microsoft's Java VM is one of the fastest(if not, the fastest) VM out there.
HotJava is rather nice in Linux (using blackdown 1.7 atm).
;)
It's actually faster than in windows when using the sun jdk.
IE does back and forward nicely
It think it must cache the last few pages in memory of something, but it's basically instant going back and forward.
I'm complaining about a current product. I don't care if it's soon to be obselete. That's irrelevant. I'm complaning about NS4, the product - didn't say anything about mozilla or IE6, it wasn't part of what I was saying.
I think mozilla will be a good thing, but like 99.9% of the open source world I'm not contributing at the moment although I wouldn't not contribute given time and a good reason.
And IE does support more standards than NS4 at the moment. It's more complete DHTML support, CCS support etc. Sure some of those models may have proprietry additions, but there is definitely more support.
Microsoft did submit their DOM to standards guys to view over.
Um, why do you think Plam and Plam/Java is better than WinCE?
WinCE is a general purpose embedded OS. Supports color, sound, PCMCIA and is also not controlled by a hardware manufacturer, so there are many manufacturers.
Personally, I think having a PalmPC that can play colour MPEGS is way cooler than a Palm (I own a Plam tho cause I bought it a couple of years ago).
Java for CE will come out soon (and since CE has a decent GUI engine, it'll support Swing and AWT properly).
The new Plams have the advantage of being smaller tho.
Even on Linux, I prefer to use KDE or HotJava than Netscape.
It's slow at rendering, and loading.
Has anyone ever seen how badly it's paginating algorythm is? Whenever i resize the browser window, it has to repaginate the entire page. Sometimes it reloads it off the server again! I would never dare to try resizing the window while it's still downloading a page, sometimes it just craps up and never draws the page.
IE on the other hand is multithreaded, but not only that has a decent pagination routine. If I resize the browser window, the page doesn't need to be redrawn, if images will move close or further apart as do DIVs, tables, cells and everything else. It even works while IE is still downloading.
And in navigator, when you click on a link, the entire page is locked!!! So i can't click on another link while the current one is loading.
It's no suprise that implementing DHTML to the extend IE does is a difficult job for Netscape, since they reply on just rerendering the entire page whenever something changes. Lame.
Also, font support on Netscape are all stuffed.
Do you people realise IE supports more web standards than Netscape? So what if it has some *extra* features.
Some of the problems i mentioned like fonts are probably for cross platform compatability. But the pagination problems are unconfigurable.
Glad you agree ;)
/. people seem to complain about the speed of windows or something (maybe they don't use X), but then have no problem with Java.
I used to write most of my apps in VB, complementing VB code sometimes with C++ code written in ATL (as activex components). Usually tho, I found I didn't have a need. VB supports everything I could possibly want (except X platform), certainly, it supports more of what i need than Java does. Try access the parallel port from pure X platform Java for example - very difficult.
Lately, I've been working on both MFC and Java. MFC is *almost* as simple as VB in terms than you can draw forms, and write 'events' (which are really just overidden class members. You just need to know a lot about C++ and C functions as well as the Windows API.
Java is a beutiful language, but it's slow, limited, and is too immature for many things - but I can see it will continue to grow.
What I think is funny is that a lot of
I see a lot of Java, VB and C++ in my future.
After years of saying NO. Microsoft decided to conceed to their developers' demands. (sign of the times i guess).
COM+ supports inprocess implementation inheritance.
This most probably means VB7 will support interface inheritance.
Use C++ style syntax in Java. The all time best move ever. Lets say we create a language with all of VB's features, but with C style syntax...people would immediately say, ahh now that's a real programming language.
What makes people think something is lower level or is a 'real language' is less how the language works, but what it looks like.
The VB language relies a lot on the IDE and unlike C++, it doesn't describe every single thing going on to detail...it presumes many things from the IDE. But since it's built on ActiveX, it doesn't really need to describe much.
Java & Javabeans are pretty much the same - the code just looks nicer - much nicer.