I'd like to believe that if the investigation was done and the truth about Bush's real crimes came to light that even Republicans would support removing Bush from office.
That's way past naive. You are a god damned fool. Who the fuck do you think aided and abetted him? You know all those loons screeching "traitor" at the people who were paying attention the entire time, not just carpet bagging like your dumb ass? That was them you worthless fuckwad.
The conservatives that were the base of the Republican party before the NeoCons took over _should_ support enforcing the rule of law and hopefully reclaim their party as the fiscal conservatives and those unwilling to export our military power for no reason.
You do know they were there since Nixon and have been running things since Reagan, right?
Fucking delusional religious moron. Barry Goldwater was your last chance and you fucking blew it.
The last thing we want to do is look like a bunch of America-hating cranks out to persecute Bush and his supporters for trying to protect the USA.
So the first thing you want to do is look like a bunch of *cowardly* America-hating cranks unwilling to uphold your oaths of office?
You Demopussies need to step the fuck up if you want to be seen as anything but sycophantic lapdogs.
I despise the Republicans as any sane ethical person does, but you're nothing but a weak willed weaselly coward trying to skulk around in the shadows. Damn. That is *exactly* how the Republicunts have managed to have 3 full blown traitors in a row while your worms managed to get a pickpocket hung up for a blowjob.
Waaaaaaa we could just do the right thing and stand by it (you'd have some credibility on Iraq if you'd done it last time), but we'd rather lurk around corners nipping ankles. That's just a recipe for a boot to the teeth and the laughter of everyone watching.
Give me a effen break you obviously have not been out of this country if you think this is anywhere close to a police state. I invite you to attempt to live in Singapore. Its ILLEGAL to chew gum there!
What the particular stupid laws are isn't what characterizes a police state. We have more people per capita and in raw numbers in prison than anywhere else in the world for "crimes" largely centered around growing flowers and such.
the one everyone remembers, lying under oath regarding sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky
To the best of my knowledge she is an honorable woman (witchhunts generally end in burnings or other such unpleasantness).
the one everyone seems to forget, regarding Clinton's pressuring of Lewinsky to give false testimony in court and obstruct the investigation
You said what to who and gave a spunk stained dress to your mother?!? WTF is wrong with you?
Yes, that's basically the extent of it. Not that Clinton was honorable. He only was by comparison to party loyalist/nation traitors who were still trying to overcome Reagan's smear and allow Shrub's.
Ahh, another damn fool who has never read Machiavelli.
The first time I read The Prince I was 10. Either you: 1) Are George Bush. 2) Think you're George Bush. 3) Don't understand the intended audience of the book.
You see if we'd simply shot them when we had the chance the would be nothing more than a memory. There would have been a short public outrage, maybe, then the whole incident would have been forgotten. It would have been over with an that would have been the end of it.
Who are you calling "we"? If George Bush had ordered their murder, then that might have aided him in maintaining greater control over us, but that works out to my detriment. It is also IMO detrimental to my country, so there is no "we" there.
Besides I'm not talking about innocent people here. I'm talking about enemy combatants.
No, you're talking about people that Bush arbitrarily declared to be enemy combatants. We know for a fact that some of them were not enemy anything. No shit, that wouldn't be known had they been murdered which would have worked out better for Bush, which would be all that Machiavelli was concerned about. It's still a negative for everybody else.
So the entire basis of your point rests on the integrity of a known liar.
Bullshit. The majority of contracted work has been going along smoothly. There have indeed been incidents of corruption (which is to be expected in any big project), but this has been in the minority of cases.
You're an ignorant fool and a sycophantic douchebag liar
I know I'm in the minority, neither purely materialist as many in the science community are, nor 'Miraculous' in the vein of Intelligent Design folks or Creationists, nor goofy in the vein of those who believe the FSM said 'ramen' and the world came to be out of the formless wheat...
Your beliefs are every bit as goofy as the FSM. You need to learn to accept that that is exactly what you decided when you chose to start arbitrarily believing in some silly fairy tale. Provide one single scrap of anything demonstrating any merit to your faith that makes it in any way less silly than FSMism. You do realize that it's completely impossible for you to do that, don't you? You do realize that you're a hypocrite for calling anyone's beliefs no matter how far out "goofy" when you believe in such a stupid fairy tale.
Now run along and try and start acting like a sane adult. Your faith is every bit as stupid as every other religious faith which is to say very stupid, and you have no possible way of arguing against that. It is the nature of faith. Show a little more respect for the Pastafarians if you want anyone to treat your delusions with any. As long as you "say I'm a Christian" and "look at that religion, that's goofy', you've proven yourself a fool and a hypocrite. Please try to grow up and learn to think instead of just spewing that sort of idiotic nonsense.
Actually, the more I think about it, the less impressed I am. Do we delineate species based on their metabolism? I can no longer metabolize carbohydrates properly (diabetic). Does that make me a different species now?
If you evolved to metabolize steel bars, then you'd be making an attempt at sounding sane. As it is you're merely going with the appeal to credulity logical fallacy. You might note that every argument ever given by any creationist nutters have all been shown to fall into the same trapif not the same fallacy. That's the problem when you refuse to think and insist on believing stupid nonsense. Your reasoning abilities go to shit as you so clearly demonstrated.
it's still just bacteria, just now a little better. we already knew that this kind of micro evolution happens. it's not the kind of evolution that proves anything significant. at least not yet.
There is not such thing as micro evolution or macro evolution. There is only evolution. Your idiotic lies notwithstanding. I really pity your desperate need to lie to try and maintain your delusional world view, but you really should consider thinking as opposed to idiotic belief in delusions as a world view that's actually been shown to work. Yours has been show to cause nothing but damage, ignorance and disaster.
Always love the anonymous cowards spouting their anti-Semitism without even pointing to a single comparable case about a nation that they themselves are bringing into the discussion to try to defend bad behavior with more (alleged) comparable bad behavior.
Discussing the real problems with Israel's actions and violations of UN resolutions which you are claiming are so important is not in any conceivable sense "anti-semitism".
Claiming any criticism of Israel to be anti-semitism does make you a douchebag liar though. Keep that in mind at all times.
The best thing the Republican's could do is stand up and throw Bush out of the party for misrepresenting everything the party stands for. He successfully turned an anti-war, anti-nation building and fiscally conservative party into the worst fiscal, war-mongering and "America as the world police" supporting party the nation has ever seen.
No, that would be Reagan. He and Bush are pretty much the same except Reagan could act like he wasn't a sock puppet. Don't forget, Reagan sold crack to buy weapons for terrorists, while going crazy with drug laws to drive up the price. That is some pretty twisted stuff. And nothing happened, nobody took any responsibility.
Ford's Folly allowed it, and Reagan's success encouraged his successors until we're here.
We already did get stuck with the bill for his gay hooker. Republicans like to whine about other people's morals. They don't actually have any of their own.
Yes our president is an idiot. I'm saddened both that I voted for him and that I'd do it again. I knew he was an idiot at the time. An idiot is by chance only wrong half the time. I'll still take an idiot over a coward every time because a coward is by definition always wrong.
Bush is a deserter dude. He and the rest of his chickenhawk administration are all cowards.
You voted for a coward and a fool.
That says a great deal about you, and none of it good.
If any Bush administration official is charged with war crimes, I will personally put up $1000 as part of a bounty for "extraordinary rendition" of said official to the Hague. Who's with me?
Legally speaking, he's eligible for impeachment. Doing so would be a horrendous mistake though. At this point, there's less than a year, his approval rating is roughly the lowest ever, the other party has enough seats to block him from doing anything. Just let him hold office until the next President comes in.
I think you are deeply, mistaken.
A very similar argument was given by a man named Gerald Ford once upon a time. Your common argument of political expediency at the expense of justice, presidential accountability, and the rule of law led him to pardon Nixon. So the next time Nixon's minions got into office with Reagan, they knew that they could get away with anything. Now it takes audacity to use the CIA to sell cocaine to buy weapons for terrorists in direct violation of congressional orders, but why not if nobody's going to be held accountable? Reagan sure wasn't a "Buck stops here" kind of guy.
Sure Clinton pulled some shit but he's a n00b compared to these guys.
Now we have the same damn thing happening all over again and you're saying let it go no big, $THE_OTHER_PARTY will come and magically fix it. They'd never misuse that power once granted.
I don't think I ever claimed any moral high ground! IF you're talking about the parties, they of course ALL claim the moral high ground. I don't really understand how people like you can talk about things like "human decency" while flaming, insulting, attacking, denigrating, etc another human being. It goes both ways.
I'm talking about the policies of the Republican party specifically. Attempting to enact a gay hatred amendment using no rational arguments whatsoever and only claims of moral superiority. Sorry, but if you keep trying to ignore reality and pretend that somehow, magically the gross abuses and assaults on the constitution carried out by the Republican party specifically using explicitly religious arguments as the sole basis of their moral standing, are just supposed to be ignored in favor of pretending both parties are equal, then you will continue to be treated as a fool because you have demonstrated that you will accept nothing else.
I can talk about human decency perfectly well. I don't vote for people who have completely rejected it. You do not magically deserve to be treated with either courtesy or respect as long as you are defending a political party that treats people who disagree with them *especially in cases when the disagreeers are proven completely correct* far worse than you've been treated here. You do not get to roll around with such scum and then pretend that you magically didn't get any on you. I asked you to provide a valid reason for you choices which have been proven disastrous and all you could do was lie and spout idiotic buzzwords. So, if you want to be treated with respect or courtesy, then you might look at doing that to other people first. Instead of fucking over massive amounts of people through your refusal to pay attention and then whining like a little bitch when your disgusting actions are called for what they are. Seriously, you no longer get to play those cards when you gave a big fuck you in the first place.
See, the ironic thing is that the INESCAPABLE conclusion of this thread is that it's you who see the world as black and white.
Nope. That is not at all true. It is a fact that to be a Republican still in this day and age after all of their crimes against humanity and this nation requires one to be a traitor a coward or a fool. I offered you a chance to provide a counter example and you completely failed to do it. So has every other Republican whose ever attempted to address that. That is a conclusion based on all of the available evidence. That no more demonstrates that my world view is black and white than if I were to state that 2+2 is 4 and that people who believe 2+2=5 are flat out wrong. I'm perfectly willing to help turn this country's political discourse back to reasoned debate, but until the party *you* are defending gives up their policy of turning every debate into a flame war, that's not going to happen. You see, you whining to me about calling you and your party out on their real, actual actions does nothing to help that. You need to start talking to other Republicans about it and stop voting for the shitbags who have worked so hard to reduce our political discourse to that.
You're part of the cause of that problem. I'm already not voting for those scumbags, until you step up and do the same you have no basis to make any such accusations. You keep trotting out Bush's "you're with us or against us", without ever addressing the issue that *you* fucking voted for that. You are still at this moment defending that attitude. That is the type of doublethinking deeply dishonest idiocy which is the root of the problem.
Everything I've said where you disagree makes me a fool, a coward or whatever. There's no middleground for you. It's so very partisan, it's bothering!
No, I demonstrated the cowardice and/or foolishness of your positions. There's plenty of middleground for me. It is a fact that the Republican party is completely out of control and working to completely destroy all of the
You are entitled to believe this as you want, but just as I can't prove that God *does* exists, so you cannot prove that God *doesn't*.
But there's no evidence for your magical invisible friend, hence no reason a sane person would treat it as anything but a sad, pathetic, delusion.
Care to provide a single shred of evidence for your fantasy man? Oh, what's that, there isn't any?
Well, then being the decent god fearing sort you are, I'm sure you'll happily apologize for making such a stupid and dishonest attempt at misleading people into thinking those two ideas are in any way symmetrical?
Let me guess: you won't. If I'm right, then please stop claiming to actually believe that nonsense. If I actually believed the nonsense you claim to, then I would be compelled to murder you with rocks for bearing false witness.
Now go away and stop lying about really blatantly obvious things.
Oh, and for talking trash about your fairy friend, you are absolutely compelled to murder me with rocks....well, that is if you actually bought into the nonsense you claim to which you obviously don't.
Hell, the Muslim suicide bombers are the only members of that entire faith family that actually believe what they say they do. You sure as hell don't, which is actually a very good thing. Too bad you can't grow up and get over the pretense.
But if God is the creator, and is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent (as the Bible states), then he would have KNOWN that Adam and Eve would make the (wrong) choice. So it isn't really a choice, is it?
It's far far worse than that.
He didn't just "KNOW" that they would do that. He specifically chose to create everything in exactly such a way as to ensure that that would happen. That's the problem with postulating an omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent creator. If there were such a thing, he's absolutely with no possibility of a doubt a petulant asshole.
Therefore, the Genesis story is not about God giving humans a choice, but rather about teaching us a lesson about what happens when we don't follow the directions. Kind of like a king, prophet, parent or other authority figure might want to do?
Again, worse.
It's not like we fucked up and he said, "Well I'll teach them a lesson". He set up the entire situation on purpose and with malice aforethought. "taught" us the lesson while he'd already ensured that we wouldn't learn and hence he could keep fucking with us.
It's really sad, pathetic, and delusional, but that's what you necessarily end up with when you insist on magical invisible friends.
Not sure what there is to rationalize. The tree was there to see if Adam and Eve could follow the one simple instruction God gave them. They could not. And (if you want me to get theological on you) nothing has changed since then. Whatever God says is best, humans tend to rebel against.
This is so sad. Why do you demand the existence of an all powerful all knowing perfect being and then demand that he act like a petulant 5 year old? Seriously, nobody but the faithful can make a god look so absolutely assinine.
Seriously, think it through. All knowing all powerful god *decided* to make us one way and the rules the opposite. That has nothing at all to do with humans and everything to do with the poor choices your petulant child of a god made. Were he all that you desperately want to believe that he is, then he obviously could have done it in a more sane, honest, and less murderous way.
That is why the Bible says "there is none good, no not one."
You mean god decided to make sure that there were no good people by making the rules that way. What a dick.
When God says go right, human nature says go left. They are exact polar opposites.
Again, god's decision. Trying to blame humans when you believe a magical fairy made everyone the way they are for its own reasons is jsut a comple abject refusal to point the finger where it belongs. Oh wait, your god is perfect, therefore you have to make insane rationalizations to avoid the obvious.
That is, of course, why we need Someone to reconcile us with God. I think you know the rest...
You mean that he realized that he made some idiotic decisions, was too dishonest and cowardly to admit it and so made up some nonsense about how we had to torture and murder his son to allow him to forgive us for acting in a manner consistent with the way he chose to make us.
OK, your god is a fool, an ass, and a really brutal thug. That's what you've demonstrated and nothing more. You're failing to realize it because you've assumed that god must be perfect. In order to reconcile that bizarre belief with reality you've been forced to jump through a variety of hoops making yourself seem less and less in touch with reality. Your arguments might end up being valid, but given that your primary assumption leads to complete garbage hence must be garbage, your argument is completely unsound.
I wasn't there so I can't say exactly what it looked like, but obviously the devil was in some way communicating to Adam and Eve.
Who was? Oh right, nobody. It's a made up fictional story. Who wrote the book of Genesis? When did they meat A&E to get the story? Oh right, never.
Flames will go to/dev/null, but I'll try to entertain serious questions or discussion points.
Let me guess, you'll magically redefine these completely serious and rational points as flame. Given the above blatant fallacies and the rest of the obvious contradictions in the Bible, it's obvious that the Christian faith has no merit except as a brutal tool of control.
If it's so full of merit, then why was it only with the enlightenment and the complete rejection by most Christians of most of the articles of the Christian faith that it became anything but the brutal atrocity that it had been for over a thousand years?
I could even imagine Hitler supporting creationism provided it was a blond Nordic Adam that was created in the Garden of Eden. And belief in God would be fine if his name was Woden or Thor.
Why would you bother making up silly nonsense when you could just look up the fact that the Nazis were an explicitly and militantly Christian organization? Belief in god was demanded of the German citizens and that god was named Jesus, or else.
Rough?!? Not at all. It's amazing, given the actions of your party over the last 30 years or so that you would have the audacity to whine about me being "rough". That is exactly the typical never take any personal responsibility for yourself attitude and whine like a little bitch when called on it attitude which leads to the situation I originally pointed out. Selling crack to schoolkids to illegally buy weapons for terrorists is "rough". Pointing out that those like yourself who support such activities are lacking in any moral high ground, or even basic human decency, is a simple assessment of the facts. But, please don't let facts get in the way of your whining about how I'm mean.
I guess to quote GW "you're either with us or against us"!
Projection.
You're defending the party which runs on such quotes. You might note that everything Bush was saying at that time were lies designed to sell a war which was part of some hare brained scheme for world domination. The people who weren't with him included every good American. Yes, you have a responsibility to pay attention to what your government is doing and call them on their bullshit. So to point out that people who support the type of treasonous scum that would spout such hatred of America are themselves necessarily sleazy is simple basic honesty. To try and claim that pointing out those basic facts makes me somehow a bad person on the level of the monsters you're supporting is deeply dishonest and disgusting.
I really would like to discuss this with you, but since you've boiled it down to an opinion issue (which it of course is),
Actually, it's not a question of opinion at all. You can say that you think that what the Republicans have been doing for the last 30 years is "cool" or whatever and that's an opinion. That's meaningless though. Not all opinions are equal, and some are just wrong. That Bush is a traitor isn't an opinion, it's a rock solid fact backed up by every scrap of evidence. Why do you think the fools who support him are stuck with nothing but lies and fear mongering about the overblown threat of "OMFGWTFBBQ terrorists are everywhere waaaa mommy". Because there was never anything legitimate behind his actions. The fact the Republicans as a class are too cowardly to admit that they were fooled and learn from it is why we currently have Bush. So, facts are facts and all the facts prove my position. Opine about how reality is biased against the poor innocent Republicans all you like, but it only proves you ever more the fool.
Must be nice to see the world so black and white though--much like a certain president;-)
Not at all in any way even similar. We are talking about the scum who elected said president. That is a very damning fact about a person. I knew Bush was wrong. The whole Iraq thing was an obvious scam from the start. If you're so out of touch with reality, so ignorant of basic human nature and so ignorant of history in general, and the specific history of the people involved in that scam as to not have clued into that, then youare a fool by definition. Bush's contention was that I, by noticing the obvious fact of his "Big Lie", was a traitor and a terrorist supporter.
Do you see how the facts are all on one side? How any "opinion" that involves Bush being in the right quite obviously and inevitably could only be held by a fool since it would directly contradict reality?
So, since you're the one supporting the Republicans, please be man enough to step up and take responsibility for that shit attitude and quit trying to blame the good, decent people who pay attention for your failures as a citizen.
Party policies don't really matter so much on a local level though, so I think we should rightfully focus on the national level.
That is the result of the actions of the parties themselves which is a bad thing, but I certainly can't dispute the truth of that.
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I'd like to believe that if the investigation was done and the truth about Bush's real crimes came to light that even Republicans would support removing Bush from office.
That's way past naive.
You are a god damned fool.
Who the fuck do you think aided and abetted him? You know all those loons screeching "traitor" at the people who were paying attention the entire time, not just carpet bagging like your dumb ass? That was them you worthless fuckwad.
The conservatives that were the base of the Republican party before the NeoCons took over _should_ support enforcing the rule of law and hopefully reclaim their party as the fiscal conservatives and those unwilling to export our military power for no reason.
You do know they were there since Nixon and have been running things since Reagan, right?
Fucking delusional religious moron. Barry Goldwater was your last chance and you fucking blew it.
The last thing we want to do is look like a bunch of America-hating cranks out to persecute Bush and his supporters for trying to protect the USA.
So the first thing you want to do is look like a bunch of *cowardly* America-hating cranks unwilling to uphold your oaths of office?
You Demopussies need to step the fuck up if you want to be seen as anything but sycophantic lapdogs.
I despise the Republicans as any sane ethical person does, but you're nothing but a weak willed weaselly coward trying to skulk around in the shadows. Damn. That is *exactly* how the Republicunts have managed to have 3 full blown traitors in a row while your worms managed to get a pickpocket hung up for a blowjob.
Waaaaaaa we could just do the right thing and stand by it (you'd have some credibility on Iraq if you'd done it last time), but we'd rather lurk around corners nipping ankles. That's just a recipe for a boot to the teeth and the laughter of everyone watching.
Give me a effen break you obviously have not been out of this country if you think this is anywhere close to a police state. I invite you to attempt to live in Singapore. Its ILLEGAL to chew gum there!
What the particular stupid laws are isn't what characterizes a police state. We have more people per capita and in raw numbers in prison than anywhere else in the world for "crimes" largely centered around growing flowers and such.
*That's* what characterizes a police state.
the one everyone remembers, lying under oath regarding sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky
To the best of my knowledge she is an honorable woman (witchhunts generally end in burnings or other such unpleasantness).
the one everyone seems to forget, regarding Clinton's pressuring of Lewinsky to give false testimony in court and obstruct the investigation
You said what to who and gave a spunk stained dress to your mother?!? WTF is wrong with you?
Yes, that's basically the extent of it. Not that Clinton was honorable. He only was by comparison to party loyalist/nation traitors who were still trying to overcome Reagan's smear and allow Shrub's.
Ahh, another damn fool who has never read Machiavelli.
The first time I read The Prince I was 10. Either you:
1) Are George Bush.
2) Think you're George Bush.
3) Don't understand the intended audience of the book.
You see if we'd simply shot them when we had the chance the would be nothing more than a memory. There would have been a short public outrage, maybe, then the whole incident would have been forgotten. It would have been over with an that would have been the end of it.
Who are you calling "we"? If George Bush had ordered their murder, then that might have aided him in maintaining greater control over us, but that works out to my detriment. It is also IMO detrimental to my country, so there is no "we" there.
Besides I'm not talking about innocent people here. I'm talking about enemy combatants.
No, you're talking about people that Bush arbitrarily declared to be enemy combatants. We know for a fact that some of them were not enemy anything. No shit, that wouldn't be known had they been murdered which would have worked out better for Bush, which would be all that Machiavelli was concerned about. It's still a negative for everybody else.
So the entire basis of your point rests on the integrity of a known liar.
Not too solid, and in fact long ago proven false.
Sad part is if we would have just done this to start with instead of taking prisoner the world would be a lot happier place today
How does us lining up and murdering innocent people make the world a happier place?!?
You're one sick twisted little fucker.
Bullshit. The majority of contracted work has been going along smoothly. There have indeed been incidents of corruption (which is to be expected in any big project), but this has been in the minority of cases.
You're an ignorant fool and a sycophantic douchebag liar
Well, it couldn't have hurt the food, unless the Italians tried to come up with haggis parmegioano.
You're asserting that that would be *worse* than haggis already is?
I know I'm in the minority, neither purely materialist as many in the science community are, nor 'Miraculous' in the vein of Intelligent Design folks or Creationists, nor goofy in the vein of those who believe the FSM said 'ramen' and the world came to be out of the formless wheat...
Your beliefs are every bit as goofy as the FSM. You need to learn to accept that that is exactly what you decided when you chose to start arbitrarily believing in some silly fairy tale.
Provide one single scrap of anything demonstrating any merit to your faith that makes it in any way less silly than FSMism.
You do realize that it's completely impossible for you to do that, don't you?
You do realize that you're a hypocrite for calling anyone's beliefs no matter how far out "goofy" when you believe in such a stupid fairy tale.
Now run along and try and start acting like a sane adult. Your faith is every bit as stupid as every other religious faith which is to say very stupid, and you have no possible way of arguing against that. It is the nature of faith. Show a little more respect for the Pastafarians if you want anyone to treat your delusions with any. As long as you "say I'm a Christian" and "look at that religion, that's goofy', you've proven yourself a fool and a hypocrite. Please try to grow up and learn to think instead of just spewing that sort of idiotic nonsense.
Actually, the more I think about it, the less impressed I am. Do we delineate species based on their metabolism? I can no longer metabolize carbohydrates properly (diabetic). Does that make me a different species now?
If you evolved to metabolize steel bars, then you'd be making an attempt at sounding sane. As it is you're merely going with the appeal to credulity logical fallacy. You might note that every argument ever given by any creationist nutters have all been shown to fall into the same trapif not the same fallacy. That's the problem when you refuse to think and insist on believing stupid nonsense. Your reasoning abilities go to shit as you so clearly demonstrated.
it's still just bacteria, just now a little better. we already knew that this kind of micro evolution happens. it's not the kind of evolution that proves anything significant. at least not yet.
There is not such thing as micro evolution or macro evolution.
There is only evolution. Your idiotic lies notwithstanding. I really pity your desperate need to lie to try and maintain your delusional world view, but you really should consider thinking as opposed to idiotic belief in delusions as a world view that's actually been shown to work.
Yours has been show to cause nothing but damage, ignorance and disaster.
Always love the anonymous cowards spouting their anti-Semitism without even pointing to a single comparable case about a nation that they themselves are bringing into the discussion to try to defend bad behavior with more (alleged) comparable bad behavior.
Discussing the real problems with Israel's actions and violations of UN resolutions which you are claiming are so important is not in any conceivable sense "anti-semitism".
Claiming any criticism of Israel to be anti-semitism does make you a douchebag liar though. Keep that in mind at all times.
The best thing the Republican's could do is stand up and throw Bush out of the party for misrepresenting everything the party stands for. He successfully turned an anti-war, anti-nation building and fiscally conservative party into the worst fiscal, war-mongering and "America as the world police" supporting party the nation has ever seen.
No, that would be Reagan. He and Bush are pretty much the same except Reagan could act like he wasn't a sock puppet. Don't forget, Reagan sold crack to buy weapons for terrorists, while going crazy with drug laws to drive up the price. That is some pretty twisted stuff. And nothing happened, nobody took any responsibility.
Ford's Folly allowed it, and Reagan's success encouraged his successors until we're here.
Quick, someone buy bush a hooker.
We already did get stuck with the bill for his gay hooker. Republicans like to whine about other people's morals. They don't actually have any of their own.
Yes our president is an idiot. I'm saddened both that I voted for him and that I'd do it again. I knew he was an idiot at the time. An idiot is by chance only wrong half the time. I'll still take an idiot over a coward every time because a coward is by definition always wrong.
Bush is a deserter dude. He and the rest of his chickenhawk administration are all cowards.
You voted for a coward and a fool.
That says a great deal about you, and none of it good.
should the "International Court of Justice" get it's hands on Bush or Cheney it would be an orgy of hate ending in an execution.
And at long last a hope of the US regaining some shreds of credibility and ethics.
If any Bush administration official is charged with war crimes, I will personally put up $1000 as part of a bounty for "extraordinary rendition" of said official to the Hague. Who's with me?
I'm in.
You mean there are six slashdotters out there with girlfriends. We might have to change the odds on that one.
:-(
I don't have a girlfriend. My wife won't let me
Legally speaking, he's eligible for impeachment. Doing so would be a horrendous mistake though. At this point, there's less than a year, his approval rating is roughly the lowest ever, the other party has enough seats to block him from doing anything. Just let him hold office until the next President comes in.
I think you are deeply, mistaken.
A very similar argument was given by a man named Gerald Ford once upon a time. Your common argument of political expediency at the expense of justice, presidential accountability, and the rule of law led him to pardon Nixon.
So the next time Nixon's minions got into office with Reagan, they knew that they could get away with anything. Now it takes audacity to use the CIA to sell cocaine to buy weapons for terrorists in direct violation of congressional orders, but why not if nobody's going to be held accountable? Reagan sure wasn't a "Buck stops here" kind of guy.
Sure Clinton pulled some shit but he's a n00b compared to these guys.
Now we have the same damn thing happening all over again and you're saying let it go no big, $THE_OTHER_PARTY will come and magically fix it. They'd never misuse that power once granted.
We can't keep repeating Ford's Folly.
I don't think I ever claimed any moral high ground! IF you're talking about the parties, they of course ALL claim the moral high ground. I don't really understand how people like you can talk about things like "human decency" while flaming, insulting, attacking, denigrating, etc another human being. It goes both ways.
I'm talking about the policies of the Republican party specifically. Attempting to enact a gay hatred amendment using no rational arguments whatsoever and only claims of moral superiority. Sorry, but if you keep trying to ignore reality and pretend that somehow, magically the gross abuses and assaults on the constitution carried out by the Republican party specifically using explicitly religious arguments as the sole basis of their moral standing, are just supposed to be ignored in favor of pretending both parties are equal, then you will continue to be treated as a fool because you have demonstrated that you will accept nothing else.
I can talk about human decency perfectly well. I don't vote for people who have completely rejected it. You do not magically deserve to be treated with either courtesy or respect as long as you are defending a political party that treats people who disagree with them *especially in cases when the disagreeers are proven completely correct* far worse than you've been treated here. You do not get to roll around with such scum and then pretend that you magically didn't get any on you. I asked you to provide a valid reason for you choices which have been proven disastrous and all you could do was lie and spout idiotic buzzwords. So, if you want to be treated with respect or courtesy, then you might look at doing that to other people first. Instead of fucking over massive amounts of people through your refusal to pay attention and then whining like a little bitch when your disgusting actions are called for what they are.
Seriously, you no longer get to play those cards when you gave a big fuck you in the first place.
See, the ironic thing is that the INESCAPABLE conclusion of this thread is that it's you who see the world as black and white.
Nope. That is not at all true. It is a fact that to be a Republican still in this day and age after all of their crimes against humanity and this nation requires one to be a traitor a coward or a fool. I offered you a chance to provide a counter example and you completely failed to do it. So has every other Republican whose ever attempted to address that. That is a conclusion based on all of the available evidence.
That no more demonstrates that my world view is black and white than if I were to state that 2+2 is 4 and that people who believe 2+2=5 are flat out wrong. I'm perfectly willing to help turn this country's political discourse back to reasoned debate, but until the party *you* are defending gives up their policy of turning every debate into a flame war, that's not going to happen.
You see, you whining to me about calling you and your party out on their real, actual actions does nothing to help that. You need to start talking to other Republicans about it and stop voting for the shitbags who have worked so hard to reduce our political discourse to that.
You're part of the cause of that problem. I'm already not voting for those scumbags, until you step up and do the same you have no basis to make any such accusations. You keep trotting out Bush's "you're with us or against us", without ever addressing the issue that *you* fucking voted for that. You are still at this moment defending that attitude. That is the type of doublethinking deeply dishonest idiocy which is the root of the problem.
Everything I've said where you disagree makes me a fool, a coward or whatever. There's no middleground for you. It's so very partisan, it's bothering!
No, I demonstrated the cowardice and/or foolishness of your positions. There's plenty of middleground for me. It is a fact that the Republican party is completely out of control and working to completely destroy all of the
You are entitled to believe this as you want, but just as I can't prove that God *does* exists, so you cannot prove that God *doesn't*.
But there's no evidence for your magical invisible friend, hence no reason a sane person would treat it as anything but a sad, pathetic, delusion.
Care to provide a single shred of evidence for your fantasy man? Oh, what's that, there isn't any?
Well, then being the decent god fearing sort you are, I'm sure you'll happily apologize for making such a stupid and dishonest attempt at misleading people into thinking those two ideas are in any way symmetrical?
Let me guess: you won't.
If I'm right, then please stop claiming to actually believe that nonsense. If I actually believed the nonsense you claim to, then I would be compelled to murder you with rocks for bearing false witness.
Now go away and stop lying about really blatantly obvious things.
Oh, and for talking trash about your fairy friend, you are absolutely compelled to murder me with rocks....well, that is if you actually bought into the nonsense you claim to which you obviously don't.
Hell, the Muslim suicide bombers are the only members of that entire faith family that actually believe what they say they do. You sure as hell don't, which is actually a very good thing. Too bad you can't grow up and get over the pretense.
But if God is the creator, and is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent (as the Bible states), then he would have KNOWN that Adam and Eve would make the (wrong) choice. So it isn't really a choice, is it?
It's far far worse than that.
He didn't just "KNOW" that they would do that. He specifically chose to create everything in exactly such a way as to ensure that that would happen.
That's the problem with postulating an omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent creator. If there were such a thing, he's absolutely with no possibility of a doubt a petulant asshole.
Therefore, the Genesis story is not about God giving humans a choice, but rather about teaching us a lesson about what happens when we don't follow the directions. Kind of like a king, prophet, parent or other authority figure might want to do?
Again, worse.
It's not like we fucked up and he said, "Well I'll teach them a lesson". He set up the entire situation on purpose and with malice aforethought. "taught" us the lesson while he'd already ensured that we wouldn't learn and hence he could keep fucking with us.
It's really sad, pathetic, and delusional, but that's what you necessarily end up with when you insist on magical invisible friends.
Not sure what there is to rationalize. The tree was there to see if Adam and Eve could follow the one simple instruction God gave them. They could not. And (if you want me to get theological on you) nothing has changed since then. Whatever God says is best, humans tend to rebel against.
...
/dev/null, but I'll try to entertain serious questions or discussion points.
This is so sad. Why do you demand the existence of an all powerful all knowing perfect being and then demand that he act like a petulant 5 year old? Seriously, nobody but the faithful can make a god look so absolutely assinine.
Seriously, think it through. All knowing all powerful god *decided* to make us one way and the rules the opposite. That has nothing at all to do with humans and everything to do with the poor choices your petulant child of a god made. Were he all that you desperately want to believe that he is, then he obviously could have done it in a more sane, honest, and less murderous way.
That is why the Bible says "there is none good, no not one."
You mean god decided to make sure that there were no good people by making the rules that way. What a dick.
When God says go right, human nature says go left. They are exact polar opposites.
Again, god's decision. Trying to blame humans when you believe a magical fairy made everyone the way they are for its own reasons is jsut a comple abject refusal to point the finger where it belongs. Oh wait, your god is perfect, therefore you have to make insane rationalizations to avoid the obvious.
That is, of course, why we need Someone to reconcile us with God. I think you know the rest
You mean that he realized that he made some idiotic decisions, was too dishonest and cowardly to admit it and so made up some nonsense about how we had to torture and murder his son to allow him to forgive us for acting in a manner consistent with the way he chose to make us.
OK, your god is a fool, an ass, and a really brutal thug. That's what you've demonstrated and nothing more. You're failing to realize it because you've assumed that god must be perfect. In order to reconcile that bizarre belief with reality you've been forced to jump through a variety of hoops making yourself seem less and less in touch with reality. Your arguments might end up being valid, but given that your primary assumption leads to complete garbage hence must be garbage, your argument is completely unsound.
I wasn't there so I can't say exactly what it looked like, but obviously the devil was in some way communicating to Adam and Eve.
Who was? Oh right, nobody. It's a made up fictional story. Who wrote the book of Genesis? When did they meat A&E to get the story? Oh right, never.
Flames will go to
Let me guess, you'll magically redefine these completely serious and rational points as flame. Given the above blatant fallacies and the rest of the obvious contradictions in the Bible, it's obvious that the Christian faith has no merit except as a brutal tool of control.
If it's so full of merit, then why was it only with the enlightenment and the complete rejection by most Christians of most of the articles of the Christian faith that it became anything but the brutal atrocity that it had been for over a thousand years?
I could even imagine Hitler supporting creationism provided it was a blond Nordic Adam that was created in the Garden of Eden. And belief in God would be fine if his name was Woden or Thor.
Why would you bother making up silly nonsense when you could just look up the fact that the Nazis were an explicitly and militantly Christian organization? Belief in god was demanded of the German citizens and that god was named Jesus, or else.
That's kind of rough,
;-)
Rough?!? Not at all. It's amazing, given the actions of your party over the last 30 years or so that you would have the audacity to whine about me being "rough". That is exactly the typical never take any personal responsibility for yourself attitude and whine like a little bitch when called on it attitude which leads to the situation I originally pointed out.
Selling crack to schoolkids to illegally buy weapons for terrorists is "rough". Pointing out that those like yourself who support such activities are lacking in any moral high ground, or even basic human decency, is a simple assessment of the facts. But, please don't let facts get in the way of your whining about how I'm mean.
I guess to quote GW "you're either with us or against us"!
Projection.
You're defending the party which runs on such quotes. You might note that everything Bush was saying at that time were lies designed to sell a war which was part of some hare brained scheme for world domination. The people who weren't with him included every good American. Yes, you have a responsibility to pay attention to what your government is doing and call them on their bullshit. So to point out that people who support the type of treasonous scum that would spout such hatred of America are themselves necessarily sleazy is simple basic honesty.
To try and claim that pointing out those basic facts makes me somehow a bad person on the level of the monsters you're supporting is deeply dishonest and disgusting.
I really would like to discuss this with you, but since you've boiled it down to an opinion issue (which it of course is),
Actually, it's not a question of opinion at all. You can say that you think that what the Republicans have been doing for the last 30 years is "cool" or whatever and that's an opinion. That's meaningless though. Not all opinions are equal, and some are just wrong.
That Bush is a traitor isn't an opinion, it's a rock solid fact backed up by every scrap of evidence. Why do you think the fools who support him are stuck with nothing but lies and fear mongering about the overblown threat of "OMFGWTFBBQ terrorists are everywhere waaaa mommy". Because there was never anything legitimate behind his actions. The fact the Republicans as a class are too cowardly to admit that they were fooled and learn from it is why we currently have Bush.
So, facts are facts and all the facts prove my position. Opine about how reality is biased against the poor innocent Republicans all you like, but it only proves you ever more the fool.
Must be nice to see the world so black and white though--much like a certain president
Not at all in any way even similar. We are talking about the scum who elected said president. That is a very damning fact about a person. I knew Bush was wrong. The whole Iraq thing was an obvious scam from the start. If you're so out of touch with reality, so ignorant of basic human nature and so ignorant of history in general, and the specific history of the people involved in that scam as to not have clued into that, then youare a fool by definition.
Bush's contention was that I, by noticing the obvious fact of his "Big Lie", was a traitor and a terrorist supporter.
Do you see how the facts are all on one side? How any "opinion" that involves Bush being in the right quite obviously and inevitably could only be held by a fool since it would directly contradict reality?
So, since you're the one supporting the Republicans, please be man enough to step up and take responsibility for that shit attitude and quit trying to blame the good, decent people who pay attention for your failures as a citizen.
Party policies don't really matter so much on a local level though, so I think we should rightfully focus on the national level.
That is the result of the actions of the parties themselves which is a bad thing, but I certainly can't dispute the truth of that.
Actually,