I think we are in agreement. I think fiction is the most difficult nut to crack. As you know most fiction authors do not make a living off their books, even when they author and publish multiple titles over several years through a reputable publisher.
PA plays off the desire many writers have to be "recognized" by a "real publisher". You can't be a "real writer" until a "real publisher" publishes you and your books are in "bookshelves across america". Getting on "bookshelves across america" is a waste of time until you have name recognition. New authors can get that with help from a publisher willing to invest thousands (tens of thousands) in their work.
CT Adams is a writing team that just crossed that rubicon. Their book is being promoted well. They got a good advance (low five figures for their first book). I know a very prolific scriptwriter named Zicree who just published a set of three science fiction books that are being well marketed. Note that that in BOTH cases, the writers are working their butts off marketing those books, even though they have supportive publishers who already have them on bookshelves across america. These folks, all seasons writers, cut a good deal for great content with their publishers.
Just getting published by any "reputable" publisher doesn't guarantee you'll get that treatment. Many "traditional" publishers are very like PA, handing out low royalties, tiny advances, and with little or no marketing budget dedicated to promoting a book. Many writers find their books "stay on bookshelves across america" for just a few weeks. After that, their work is found on amazon, right next to POD work and they get paid less per copy.
If you are a one title writer, it probably doesn't matter where you publish. That single title is not going to support you. If you are going to generate a stream of books and want to make a living at it, you should publish it in such a fashion you'll be paid as much as possible for your work. For many new writers, that used to mean getting their work into magazines.
Now it may mean writing ebooks and perhaps doing POD. Getting a book or three printed POD through lightningsource gets them into amazon (right next to all the books no longer available on the shelf) and orderable from any barnes and noble. You can then work on getting them reviewed in newspapers or do book signings for them them at small bookstores, etc.
POD requires no purchase of a minimum number of books. Ebooks have no minimum number you have to print, and they are almost costless to distribute (which means they are almost pure profit when one sells). The thing is, you have to do your own PR. BUT most new writers have to do that any way because publishers expect it and because they don't invest many marketing $ in books from new authors.
You can still submit new work to big publishers. Maybe one will pick you up. They certainly will if you sell 20,000 copies of your books yourself. They may also buy your other work. "What color is your parachute" was self published originally . . . then sold to a major publisher.
Our discussion, as you pointed out, is not about self publishing or POD, its about Publish America which claims to provide a host of services (including editorial services) which it doesn't appear to provide. It can do this because new writers are told, over and over again, that they _must_ have a publisher (as some kind of seal of approval) in order to be a "real writer".
I think we are in agreement. I think fiction is the most difficult nut to crack. As you know most fiction authors do not make a living off their books, even when they author and publish multiple titles over several years through a reputable publisher.
PA plays off the desire many writers have to be "recognized" by a "real publisher". You can't be a "real writer" until a "real publisher" publishes you and your books are in "bookshelves across america".
Getting on "bookshelves across america" is a waste of time until you have name recognition. New authors can get that with help from a publisher willing to invest thousands (tens of thousands) in their work. CT Adams is a writing team that just crossed that rubicon. Their book is being promoted well. They got a good advance (low five figures for their first book). I know a very prolific scriptwriter named Zicree who just published a set of three science fiction books that are being well marketed. Note that that in BOTH cases, the writers are working their butts off marketing those books, even though They have supportive publishers who already have them on bookshelves across america. These folks, all seasons writers, cut a good deal for great content with their publishers.
BUT, just getting published by any "reputable" publisher doesn't guarantee you'll get that treatment. Many "traditional" publishers are very like PA, handing out low royalties, tiny advances, and with little or no marketing budget dedicated to promoting a book. Many writers find their books "stay on bookshelves across america" for just a few weeks. After that, their work is found on amazon, right next to POD work and they get paid less per copy.
If you are a one title writer, it probably doesn't matter where you publish. That single title is not going to support you.
If you are going to generate a stream of books and want to make a living at it, you should publish it in such a fashion you'll be paid as much as possible for your work. For many new writers, that used to mean getting their work into magazines. Now it may mean writing ebooks and perhaps doing POD. Getting a book or three printed POD through lightningsource gets them into amazon (right next to all the books no longer available on the shelf) and orderable from any barnes and noble. You can then work on getting them reviewed in newspapers or do book signings for them them at small bookstores, etc.
POD requires no purchase of a minimum number of books. Ebooks have no minimum number you have to print, and they are almost costless to distribute (which means they are almost pure profit when one sells).
The thing is, you have to do your own PR. BUT most new writers have to do that any way because publishers expect it and because they don't invest many marketing $ in books from new authors.
You can still submit new work to big publishers. Maybe one will pick you up. They certainly will if you sell 20,000 copies of your books yourself. They may also buy your other work. "What color is your parachute" was self published originally . . . then sold to a major publisher.
Our discussion is not about self publishing or POD, its about Publish America which claims to provide a host of services (including editorial services) which it doesn't appear to provide.
It can do this because new writers are told, over and over again, that they _must_ have a publisher (as some kind of seal of approval) in order to be a "real writer".
I really think there is a place for "publishers" who are slave to writers. They provide alacarte hosting, marketing, editing, POD, epublishing services.
You have some competition out there . . . but its a growing market. Actually, I expect many traditionally published authors will be jumping ship as their current publishers continue decreasing royalties and advances, etc.
It is true that publisher's worth doing business with invest in authors. But those with intellectual property who spend too much time looking for those (especially fiction publishers) really can waste quite a lot of time.
Writing a book, sending out query letters, waiting months for a reply, getting _no_ commitment on how a book will be promoted or marketed when it is accepted, being _expected_ to invest your time in marketing a publisher "took a chance on" . . . that process is expensive and risky for authors.
If you are going to make a living as a writer, you have to learn how to market anyway. Its not that hard for people who write well and quickly.
Actually, fiction books are hard for authors to make "a living wage" off of from every perspective. I think, for a good writer, its probably easier to start as a self published writer (pay for real editing services) learn how to market and sell, develop a readership, then take your books to a "real publisher" that wants to buy the line.
Science fiction, horror, detective writers used to break in through magazine at pennies a word. I figure self publishing and epublishing are 21st century iterations of that trial by fire.
I like EbookAd, LightningSource and maybe BookSurge. I think most writers just don't realize that Publishers don't really decide who the "real" writers are. In the old days they were the only ones who could cost effectively print and distribute books. That is not the case anymore.
In fact most print publishers are facing some pretty hard times. Most don't have capital to take risks even on great books, pay big advances, invest in the cultivation of authors, do a lot marketing, etc.
PA's big mistake is hiring some idiot editor who irritated a bunch of working writers. That is never a good idea:)
I've been self publishing since 1996. I wrote technical books for Que, Riley, Advanstar etc for royalties up to 15% on gross before that.
In 1996 I launched an online training site. From which came training CD's sold through amazon.
I now publish fiction and non-fiction online and in print. I made $67,000 from self-publishing last year. One year I made $240,000 on a single day in a single licensing deal.
A publisher is valuable only if they are going to provide an author with services like _exceptional_ editing and great marketing.
Most fiction writers who work with publishers get gross royalties of under 10,000 per finished book (some publishers pay as little as $4,000 for a book). Techinical writers can get more . . . but the publisher usually "owns" the book, and inflicts non-competition agreements which means its like "getting married" to the publisher.
I think most writers (particularly technical writer) could make more self-publishing.
Anyway if you want to publish print books (which are really quite a low-margin gig compared to ebooks or information sites) check out lightningsource.com.
You'll have to buy a block of ISBN numbers from Bowker so you can work with them.
Books you publish through lightningsource appear in Amazon and can be ordered in any bookstore.
If you want to publish ebooks, which pays a much higher margin, look at ebookad.com. It has a 65% -75% royalty and they handle all fulfillment.
You can promote your products through google ads. For technical books, google is great cost effective marketing. (www.google.com/ads)
Anyway, my point is that this "hoax" just illustrates that getting a publisher to "accept" your work is a pretty pointless hurdle.
If you want to make a living writing, produce good quality work, package it well, get it somewhere people can buy it, and start telling people about it. Use their feedback to improve your work over time.
For technical writers with high-value content of use to tightly targeted markets, this is a particularly effective strategy.
IMHO
Slashdot Mirror
I think we are in agreement. I think fiction is the most difficult nut to crack. As you know most fiction authors do not make a living off their books, even when they author and publish multiple titles over several years through a reputable publisher.
PA plays off the desire many writers have to be "recognized" by a "real publisher". You can't be a "real writer" until a "real publisher" publishes you and your books are in "bookshelves across america". Getting on "bookshelves across america" is a waste of time until you have name recognition. New authors can get that with help from a publisher willing to invest thousands (tens of thousands) in their work.
CT Adams is a writing team that just crossed that rubicon. Their book is being promoted well. They got a good advance (low five figures for their first book). I know a very prolific scriptwriter named Zicree who just published a set of three science fiction books that are being well marketed. Note that that in BOTH cases, the writers are working their butts off marketing those books, even though they have supportive publishers who already have them on bookshelves across america. These folks, all seasons writers, cut a good deal for great content with their publishers.
Just getting published by any "reputable" publisher doesn't guarantee you'll get that treatment. Many "traditional" publishers are very like PA, handing out low royalties, tiny advances, and with little or no marketing budget dedicated to promoting a book. Many writers find their books "stay on bookshelves across america" for just a few weeks. After that, their work is found on amazon, right next to POD work and they get paid less per copy.
If you are a one title writer, it probably doesn't matter where you publish. That single title is not going to support you. If you are going to generate a stream of books and want to make a living at it, you should publish it in such a fashion you'll be paid as much as possible for your work. For many new writers, that used to mean getting their work into magazines.
Now it may mean writing ebooks and perhaps doing POD. Getting a book or three printed POD through lightningsource gets them into amazon (right next to all the books no longer available on the shelf) and orderable from any barnes and noble. You can then work on getting them reviewed in newspapers or do book signings for them them at small bookstores, etc.
POD requires no purchase of a minimum number of books. Ebooks have no minimum number you have to print, and they are almost costless to distribute (which means they are almost pure profit when one sells). The thing is, you have to do your own PR. BUT most new writers have to do that any way because publishers expect it and because they don't invest many marketing $ in books from new authors.
You can still submit new work to big publishers. Maybe one will pick you up. They certainly will if you sell 20,000 copies of your books yourself. They may also buy your other work. "What color is your parachute" was self published originally . . . then sold to a major publisher.
Our discussion, as you pointed out, is not about self publishing or POD, its about Publish America which claims to provide a host of services (including editorial services) which it doesn't appear to provide. It can do this because new writers are told, over and over again, that they _must_ have a publisher (as some kind of seal of approval) in order to be a "real writer".
I think we are in agreement. I think fiction is the most difficult nut to crack. As you know most fiction authors do not make a living off their books, even when they author and publish multiple titles over several years through a reputable publisher. PA plays off the desire many writers have to be "recognized" by a "real publisher". You can't be a "real writer" until a "real publisher" publishes you and your books are in "bookshelves across america". Getting on "bookshelves across america" is a waste of time until you have name recognition. New authors can get that with help from a publisher willing to invest thousands (tens of thousands) in their work. CT Adams is a writing team that just crossed that rubicon. Their book is being promoted well. They got a good advance (low five figures for their first book). I know a very prolific scriptwriter named Zicree who just published a set of three science fiction books that are being well marketed. Note that that in BOTH cases, the writers are working their butts off marketing those books, even though They have supportive publishers who already have them on bookshelves across america. These folks, all seasons writers, cut a good deal for great content with their publishers. BUT, just getting published by any "reputable" publisher doesn't guarantee you'll get that treatment. Many "traditional" publishers are very like PA, handing out low royalties, tiny advances, and with little or no marketing budget dedicated to promoting a book. Many writers find their books "stay on bookshelves across america" for just a few weeks. After that, their work is found on amazon, right next to POD work and they get paid less per copy. If you are a one title writer, it probably doesn't matter where you publish. That single title is not going to support you. If you are going to generate a stream of books and want to make a living at it, you should publish it in such a fashion you'll be paid as much as possible for your work. For many new writers, that used to mean getting their work into magazines. Now it may mean writing ebooks and perhaps doing POD. Getting a book or three printed POD through lightningsource gets them into amazon (right next to all the books no longer available on the shelf) and orderable from any barnes and noble. You can then work on getting them reviewed in newspapers or do book signings for them them at small bookstores, etc. POD requires no purchase of a minimum number of books. Ebooks have no minimum number you have to print, and they are almost costless to distribute (which means they are almost pure profit when one sells). The thing is, you have to do your own PR. BUT most new writers have to do that any way because publishers expect it and because they don't invest many marketing $ in books from new authors. You can still submit new work to big publishers. Maybe one will pick you up. They certainly will if you sell 20,000 copies of your books yourself. They may also buy your other work. "What color is your parachute" was self published originally . . . then sold to a major publisher. Our discussion is not about self publishing or POD, its about Publish America which claims to provide a host of services (including editorial services) which it doesn't appear to provide. It can do this because new writers are told, over and over again, that they _must_ have a publisher (as some kind of seal of approval) in order to be a "real writer".
You have some competition out there . . . but its a growing market. Actually, I expect many traditionally published authors will be jumping ship as their current publishers continue decreasing royalties and advances, etc.
Good luck with your gig, man :)
Writing a book, sending out query letters, waiting months for a reply, getting _no_ commitment on how a book will be promoted or marketed when it is accepted, being _expected_ to invest your time in marketing a publisher "took a chance on" . . . that process is expensive and risky for authors.
If you are going to make a living as a writer, you have to learn how to market anyway. Its not that hard for people who write well and quickly.
Actually, fiction books are hard for authors to make "a living wage" off of from every perspective. I think, for a good writer, its probably easier to start as a self published writer (pay for real editing services) learn how to market and sell, develop a readership, then take your books to a "real publisher" that wants to buy the line.
Science fiction, horror, detective writers used to break in through magazine at pennies a word. I figure self publishing and epublishing are 21st century iterations of that trial by fire.
I like EbookAd, LightningSource and maybe BookSurge. I think most writers just don't realize that Publishers don't really decide who the "real" writers are. In the old days they were the only ones who could cost effectively print and distribute books. That is not the case anymore.
In fact most print publishers are facing some pretty hard times. Most don't have capital to take risks even on great books, pay big advances, invest in the cultivation of authors, do a lot marketing, etc.
PA's big mistake is hiring some idiot editor who irritated a bunch of working writers. That is never a good idea :)
I've been self publishing since 1996. I wrote technical books for Que, Riley, Advanstar etc for royalties up to 15% on gross before that. In 1996 I launched an online training site. From which came training CD's sold through amazon. I now publish fiction and non-fiction online and in print. I made $67,000 from self-publishing last year. One year I made $240,000 on a single day in a single licensing deal. A publisher is valuable only if they are going to provide an author with services like _exceptional_ editing and great marketing. Most fiction writers who work with publishers get gross royalties of under 10,000 per finished book (some publishers pay as little as $4,000 for a book). Techinical writers can get more . . . but the publisher usually "owns" the book, and inflicts non-competition agreements which means its like "getting married" to the publisher. I think most writers (particularly technical writer) could make more self-publishing. Anyway if you want to publish print books (which are really quite a low-margin gig compared to ebooks or information sites) check out lightningsource.com. You'll have to buy a block of ISBN numbers from Bowker so you can work with them. Books you publish through lightningsource appear in Amazon and can be ordered in any bookstore. If you want to publish ebooks, which pays a much higher margin, look at ebookad.com. It has a 65% -75% royalty and they handle all fulfillment. You can promote your products through google ads. For technical books, google is great cost effective marketing. (www.google.com/ads) Anyway, my point is that this "hoax" just illustrates that getting a publisher to "accept" your work is a pretty pointless hurdle. If you want to make a living writing, produce good quality work, package it well, get it somewhere people can buy it, and start telling people about it. Use their feedback to improve your work over time. For technical writers with high-value content of use to tightly targeted markets, this is a particularly effective strategy. IMHO