I mean how can you ignore experts on a question that only experts can understand? It does not get much more stupid than this.
As someone who analysed all 176 pages and make a two part 80 page submission to the PJCIS among many others my sense is that the government wants these powers and they are bulldozing anyone or anything that gets in the way.
This law is about as offensive to any person who holds free will and freedom of association as one of the fundamental tenants of democracy.
I wouldn't call it stupid. I'd call it intentionally deceptive and calculated to completely broadside the electorate. The government has gone back on all of its assurances to push this into 2019 and review the Bill properly. To give you an idea of the deception involved, over 100 pages of amendments were presented at 09:00am this morning and at the end of the day no one has even had a chance to look at what the amendments are.
Furthermore, about 10 minutes ago the so called "opposition" has just revealed that it won't support it's own amendments to the Bill. This is about as a disgusting travesty or so called "democracy" I have ever seen.
Have no doubt this bill has global ramifications via intelligence sharing agreements.
Watching the debate that is happening right now, the lies being used to convince the house to pass this Bill are just sickening.
For US, UK, NZ, Canadian citizens their governments can access the powers via existing intelligence agreements.
The Australian government have escalated the information war, and don't understand the consequences of doing so.
Fraud. They talk about not building backdoors, they just want the keys to the front door by coercing IT professionals with fines, liability and jail time.
Off hand I could setup email pgp in a couple of minutes. What are they going to do then, shut down email service?
Issue a TCN, then a TAN, then assess you as capable of subverting your own systems. If you don't co-operate fine you $30,000-$60,000 and jail you for 5 to 10 years.
The 5 eyes networks will share every win in real time. Got some new keys to crypto? 4 other governments just got the same:)
Exactly.
On top of that it criminalizes innocent third parties who have nothing to do with crime. It also criminalises IT professionals for not acting as proxies for the intelligence agencies.
Penalties for individuals is $60,000 in fines, exposure to liability and up to ten years jail.
Good question. The other one I'm curious about is whether they can enforce it against all the other apps that offer end to end encryption. Even if they manage to block the ones that do now, will they be able to keep up with all the new ones that spring up? How about every web page that takes a message and a public key to create encrypted text?
Yes. The Bill targets the entire OSI stack and the entire hardware stack from the bios to the UI.
Will the voters feel happy about that or will they actually care about their privacy?
They have been deceived. The government said that there would be further review of the Bill and then did a double take. As I watch the live stream now they have passed the amendments against the will of the people.
Can they actually enforce it against WhatsApp? Does WhatsApp have any business dealings in Australia?
Yes. What more the US, UK, Canada and NZ can access the powers in this laws through existing intelligence agreements.
In this case the US can request Australia to access and implement means to access your communications, as a US citizen by coercing IT professionals and organization to provide this access.
Otherwise it seems like the most they can do is pressure Google and Apple to block it from the Australian app stores. Maybe try to get ISPs to block it, good luck with that.
No. The word is coerce. The pressure being 10 million dollar fines per instance and jail terms.
My god, are people that naive? I mean I know people like AmiMojo are dumb, but I didn't realize ignorance was this widespread.
It is your niave ignorance that should be criticized. You do not understand the global implications of this bill because you are uninformed about what this bill does to western civilization via established intelligence agreements.
Nefarious people already are using this functionality. Don't you think Google has a plaintext copy of all your messages you send over their servers? If you use one of these corporate controlled messaging services you are already being spied upon.
The difference is that they are not being compelled with liability, fines and jail terms to give the government what they want. Additionally they attach liability to IT professionals to maintain secrecy of the government with further jail terms.
I don't know about you however I am not keen on cooling my heels on a jail cell for 15 years because someone else says I can do something I am either unwilling or unable to do.
Do you guys really think the corporations aren't reading your messages? They aren't giving this stuff away for free.
This Bill forces those companies to act as a proxy for intelligence services whilst giving the government dictatorial powers over those corporations internal infrastructure.
To be fair they are more concerned about the average low tech criminal having easy access to powerful encryption tools.
I have read the entire Bill and wrote a two part 80 page analysis on it and can say to you that they are far more concerned in providing an avenue to all five eye countries a means to by-pass telecommunication encryption on all types of technology.
If they wanted to go full 1984 they could simply make the use of unbreakable encryption for messaging a crime and charge anyone found to be using it.
They have gone beyond that by subverting the use of encryption and allowed means to coerce IT professionals to co-operate or face liability for security flaws, fines and jail terms of up to ten years for not cooperating.
Apple and Google would block such apps in their app stores, and most criminals would not have the skills to write their own (and even if they did would be convicted if discovered).
Apple, Google, IBM and many other all made submissions on this bill. None of them had anything good to say about it.
So actually this law can be quite effective if they are willing to take it far enough. If not the best they can hope for is deterrent.
They have taken it way too far and there is no judicial oversight.
And of course either way it's a really terrible thing to do to your country and the citizens you are supposed to be serving.
They are extending the power of the state in the grossest form.
The act allows all five eyes countries to bypass their constitution via intelligence agreements with Australia. So if you are in one of those countries you will be affected.
Our users realize that these are consumer products and, like a toaster, if it breaks they should just buy a new one be a good consumer and, stop complaining.
The Constitution? You mean that racist document written by slave owning whites? Blacks had no voice in writing it. It's invalid. You're aware a tell for white supremacist views is constant quoting of this outdated document? I'd be careful what you write online lest it be connected to your real name and your employers HR find out your vile views.
The allegation being that it was done under the direction of Lyndon B. Johnson and collaboration of Allen W. Dulles, CIA director 1953–1961 who hated Kennedy while H.W Bush was serving in the CIA at the time of Kennedy's assassination.
Who knows what the truth is? The truth is that our reality has been fuzzed for decades now by our own media and politicians that we've been conditioned to respond to any information that challenges the status quo with the words "Conspiracy Theory" despite knowing that we are being lied to constantly.
Most of us here wern't even alive back then which shows how practiced the lies are.
Civil engineers pointing to the concrete damage was not caused by the earthquake and implying a neutron pulse *could* have done that damage.
That would imply that somewhere was a close to critical concentration of either plutonium or uranium (I guess they can get critical as a mix, too?). Can't imagine a "dirty bomb" with hundreds of tons of fuel... that would indeed be apocalyptic.
The "rumour" is that unit 4 was being upgraded to use mox and that at some time during the disaster, possibly during the quake, that a mox fuel bundle fell into the spent fuel pool and there was enough force to have some rod strike each other. This is why TEPCO was going so flat out to empty the unit 4 pools.
What the civil engineers do say they are qualified to comment on is that there is no reason for the building to have suffered anything but flood damage as the plant's concrete structures were rated to 600Gal and the site only ever experienced 150Gal.
We may never know as the Japanese Diet has passed a sedition act to make passing information about the plant illegal. That's how the Japanese avoid responsibility, they throw anyone brave enough to leak information into jail. Meanwhile an assortment of radio-isotopes are leaked continually into the pacific ocean.
Slashdot Mirror
I mean how can you ignore experts on a question that only experts can understand? It does not get much more stupid than this.
As someone who analysed all 176 pages and make a two part 80 page submission to the PJCIS among many others my sense is that the government wants these powers and they are bulldozing anyone or anything that gets in the way.
This law is about as offensive to any person who holds free will and freedom of association as one of the fundamental tenants of democracy.
I wouldn't call it stupid. I'd call it intentionally deceptive and calculated to completely broadside the electorate. The government has gone back on all of its assurances to push this into 2019 and review the Bill properly. To give you an idea of the deception involved, over 100 pages of amendments were presented at 09:00am this morning and at the end of the day no one has even had a chance to look at what the amendments are.
Furthermore, about 10 minutes ago the so called "opposition" has just revealed that it won't support it's own amendments to the Bill. This is about as a disgusting travesty or so called "democracy" I have ever seen.
Have no doubt this bill has global ramifications via intelligence sharing agreements.
Bullshit - I am watching the debate in the Senate as I am typing this to you.
They are attempting to pass the Bill in the senate at this very moment. I am watching them debate passing it it *right now*.
This is about all software.
Watching the debate that is happening right now, the lies being used to convince the house to pass this Bill are just sickening.
For US, UK, NZ, Canadian citizens their governments can access the powers via existing intelligence agreements.
The Australian government have escalated the information war, and don't understand the consequences of doing so.
Fraud. They talk about not building backdoors, they just want the keys to the front door by coercing IT professionals with fines, liability and jail time.
Has been stopped for now:
No it hasn't. It is being debated in the Senate right now.
Off hand I could setup email pgp in a couple of minutes. What are they going to do then, shut down email service?
Issue a TCN, then a TAN, then assess you as capable of subverting your own systems. If you don't co-operate fine you $30,000-$60,000 and jail you for 5 to 10 years.
It is now before the Senate Livestream link at the time of posting.
MOD PARENT UP.
The 5 eyes networks will share every win in real time. Got some new keys to crypto? 4 other governments just got the same :)
Exactly.
On top of that it criminalizes innocent third parties who have nothing to do with crime. It also criminalises IT professionals for not acting as proxies for the intelligence agencies.
Penalties for individuals is $60,000 in fines, exposure to liability and up to ten years jail.
Good question. The other one I'm curious about is whether they can enforce it against all the other apps that offer end to end encryption. Even if they manage to block the ones that do now, will they be able to keep up with all the new ones that spring up? How about every web page that takes a message and a public key to create encrypted text?
Yes. The Bill targets the entire OSI stack and the entire hardware stack from the bios to the UI.
Will the voters feel happy about that or will they actually care about their privacy?
They have been deceived. The government said that there would be further review of the Bill and then did a double take. As I watch the live stream now they have passed the amendments against the will of the people.
Can they actually enforce it against WhatsApp? Does WhatsApp have any business dealings in Australia?
Yes. What more the US, UK, Canada and NZ can access the powers in this laws through existing intelligence agreements.
In this case the US can request Australia to access and implement means to access your communications, as a US citizen by coercing IT professionals and organization to provide this access.
Otherwise it seems like the most they can do is pressure Google and Apple to block it from the Australian app stores. Maybe try to get ISPs to block it, good luck with that.
No. The word is coerce. The pressure being 10 million dollar fines per instance and jail terms.
How do the ads work if they don't get to what a person is interested in? The user is the product.
What have you actually done to fight this Bill?
My god, are people that naive? I mean I know people like AmiMojo are dumb, but I didn't realize ignorance was this widespread.
It is your niave ignorance that should be criticized. You do not understand the global implications of this bill because you are uninformed about what this bill does to western civilization via established intelligence agreements.
Your assumptions are completely flawed.
Nefarious people already are using this functionality. Don't you think Google has a plaintext copy of all your messages you send over their servers? If you use one of these corporate controlled messaging services you are already being spied upon.
The difference is that they are not being compelled with liability, fines and jail terms to give the government what they want. Additionally they attach liability to IT professionals to maintain secrecy of the government with further jail terms.
I don't know about you however I am not keen on cooling my heels on a jail cell for 15 years because someone else says I can do something I am either unwilling or unable to do.
Do you guys really think the corporations aren't reading your messages? They aren't giving this stuff away for free.
This Bill forces those companies to act as a proxy for intelligence services whilst giving the government dictatorial powers over those corporations internal infrastructure.
But the security agency submissions aren't public, so who knows what story they were told.
The Bill is 176 pages long. At 6am this morning they published 100 pages of amendments and now they are debating the passage of the Bill.
See my other post with a link to the live stream of the debate.
Won't work. Unbreakable crypto is needed for e.g. web businesses, and the bad guys can always set up shop and communicate through that site.
This point has been made to them and they ignored it.
To be fair they are more concerned about the average low tech criminal having easy access to powerful encryption tools.
I have read the entire Bill and wrote a two part 80 page analysis on it and can say to you that they are far more concerned in providing an avenue to all five eye countries a means to by-pass telecommunication encryption on all types of technology.
If they wanted to go full 1984 they could simply make the use of unbreakable encryption for messaging a crime and charge anyone found to be using it.
They have gone beyond that by subverting the use of encryption and allowed means to coerce IT professionals to co-operate or face liability for security flaws, fines and jail terms of up to ten years for not cooperating.
Apple and Google would block such apps in their app stores, and most criminals would not have the skills to write their own (and even if they did would be convicted if discovered).
Apple, Google, IBM and many other all made submissions on this bill. None of them had anything good to say about it.
So actually this law can be quite effective if they are willing to take it far enough. If not the best they can hope for is deterrent.
They have taken it way too far and there is no judicial oversight.
And of course either way it's a really terrible thing to do to your country and the citizens you are supposed to be serving.
They are extending the power of the state in the grossest form.
Can't wait for the first round of Australian politicians and law enforcement to be compromised by this.
It compromises their own defense forces - it's a nasty piece of law for all democracies.
They must be plotting something.
The act allows all five eyes countries to bypass their constitution via intelligence agreements with Australia. So if you are in one of those countries you will be affected.
The Bill is being debated right now. This is the live stream link at the time of posting.
Our users realize that these are consumer products and, like a toaster, if it breaks they should just buy a new one be a good consumer and, stop complaining.
The Constitution? You mean that racist document written by slave owning whites? Blacks had no voice in writing it. It's invalid. You're aware a tell for white supremacist views is constant quoting of this outdated document? I'd be careful what you write online lest it be connected to your real name and your employers HR find out your vile views.
Thanks very much for the information.
The allegation being that it was done under the direction of Lyndon B. Johnson and collaboration of Allen W. Dulles, CIA director 1953–1961 who hated Kennedy while H.W Bush was serving in the CIA at the time of Kennedy's assassination.
Who knows what the truth is? The truth is that our reality has been fuzzed for decades now by our own media and politicians that we've been conditioned to respond to any information that challenges the status quo with the words "Conspiracy Theory" despite knowing that we are being lied to constantly.
Most of us here wern't even alive back then which shows how practiced the lies are.
Civil engineers pointing to the concrete damage was not caused by the earthquake and implying a neutron pulse *could* have done that damage. That would imply that somewhere was a close to critical concentration of either plutonium or uranium (I guess they can get critical as a mix, too?). Can't imagine a "dirty bomb" with hundreds of tons of fuel ... that would indeed be apocalyptic.
The "rumour" is that unit 4 was being upgraded to use mox and that at some time during the disaster, possibly during the quake, that a mox fuel bundle fell into the spent fuel pool and there was enough force to have some rod strike each other. This is why TEPCO was going so flat out to empty the unit 4 pools.
What the civil engineers do say they are qualified to comment on is that there is no reason for the building to have suffered anything but flood damage as the plant's concrete structures were rated to 600Gal and the site only ever experienced 150Gal.
We may never know as the Japanese Diet has passed a sedition act to make passing information about the plant illegal. That's how the Japanese avoid responsibility, they throw anyone brave enough to leak information into jail. Meanwhile an assortment of radio-isotopes are leaked continually into the pacific ocean.