So many posts I may repeat what is already said. Both sides of this discussion are based on THEORY. It is unproven, based on some facts but can't be observed directly. Me - I go for the creation theory. But I don't put down those who are of the other view. But each view does create a worldview philosophy that do conflict. But saying people like me are 'morons' and such makes the discussion about people, not the theory. let's keep it about the theories. I am cool with that.
If it can't be provable, demonstrable, repeatable then it is not solid science. It is a theory. No aspect of evolution nor ID has been proven by science's own definitions. So why limit the child's view by not even mentioning other non-proven views but are popular with a LARGE portion of acclaimed scientists. Let those kids proceed with science to remove the THEORY OF prefix from either. Let FACTS triumph! Not zeal.
The book certainly looks 'plotty'. But reading the review I can't figure where the 7th seal comes in? The from-dept's are usually witty and related - but here - maybe it's just 'Lost in Space'.
I agree - great ref to C.S.Lewis' Space trilogy. The books are, you know, written by a Christian Fundamentalist. While Clive (hist first name) would enjoy the origin of the rocks (from Mars, meteors spun 'round Mars to knock us on our noggins, etc) - the main character Ransom does believe in Creation, the wonderful expanses of the creation and yes, the heavenly hosts of each planet all bow down to a Most High Oyarsa. So maybe they are throwing the rocks at us. One of the posts said we don't create stuff anymore. Who did? . . . So maybe those on Malacandra (Mars) are tossin' the rocks at our noggins to get us to focus less on the age of the rocks (neat stuff to know) and MORE on the One who created them? (The Object Class of life from which all other class get their attributes!)
If you happen to not see things this way, it was your reference to a solid Christian treatise in Science Fantasy that got me going)
PS: I do enjoy your subtitles. Usually fun, great play on words, or like this story a good play on ideas by refercne. And keeps out minds going when we con't know what the subtitle refers to.
Cliff - thnx for bringing this forth. Joe - YEA! Both the post Cliff quoted & your comments are simple and effective. The web is helping break down this wall MS put up. Linux, Java, Apache are doing what Scott (Sun) and Larry (Oracle) could not do alone. Critical mass is building and even the Unix companies are coming along to support the effort. No kingdom ever lasts. It weakens itself at the core and they never can keep the strong grip at the outer edge. His refusal to provide open source weakens him at the core. The web is weakening him at the outer parts. It will fall. US Justice helped too. Its not even all their products are bad. Office sells very well. But when you feel handcuffs put on when you put our your hand in agreement, dissent does start. But even IBM knows how to smother them. Be better at supporting MS products then MS. So with four fronts attacking, the handcuffs are coming off. I for one have the free version of SCO UnixWare 7.1, Caldera OpenLinux 2.3 and Win 98 running on 2 PCs. Once I find that $99 version of VMWare I will have them running concurrently. Win98 will be used when the Win compability prograns on Linux and/or SCOUnix won't run the Win program. So i get to buy the highly available stuff written for Win, but I don't fear the Blue Screen of death! I use the other stuff without losing Win's strehgth's. Kinda OpenSource style even now while using Win98. And all this while I am really just an old (47) Cobol programmer using OS/390. Thnx for listenin'.
SO - Let's see. You don't like COPPA. Your choice. But what do you offer to those who need our protection - the kids? The internet is open - so is a library. But do you let your or anyone else's kids take out any book? Regardless of the medium, information not right for kids is not right. And if your 'rights' are impaired I ask which is more important? Yours of the kids? Let's move towards a goal, not impair any movement you happen to not like.
I think the reason for the man & dollars are obvious. If you use Unix, you won't have people & money sucked up by the 'big' machine. (IBM of course at that time). Whaddya think?
This subject brings up a number of issues. 1) Why should we do this. Children are to be protected and shown some differing viewpoints - but not just any ol' stuff. Unless of course you think 10yr old kids should be told that sex with 40yr old men & 10yr old kids is fine. That is the kinda stuff I believe kids should be kept away from them. 2)This always brings up the matter of how much protection is right? We are not talking about in their homes but a matter of public access. Whenver a public formum such as the Internet needs some restricting, it will always be more than someone wants. But when it comes to kids, it has always been pruduent to side on the side of more protection, especially in a library. Like the way they are physically designed, there is a kid section & adult section. Would the librarian allow specific pornography to be checked out by a 10yr old? So why allow Internet access? 3) I could not read you entire article. Sorry, but the 14hr days at work kill my free time. While I gleaned that you were showing FRC some falicies of their solutiion, you really seemed to want to say that their reason for the solution is wrong, not the software. 4) KIDS! That is the issue here, not information freedom. They are classified as minors, with adults responsible for them. For a reson. Please, that is the issue. If we do not see that they get information that is age appropriate and not unfettered, we get kids who get power without understanding. 5) If you feel that FRC's solution is not correct, why not try a helpful hand, instead of just knocking what they have in their hand to the ground. 6) thanks for listening.
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So many posts I may repeat what is already said. Both sides of this discussion are based on THEORY. It is unproven, based on some facts but can't be observed directly. Me - I go for the creation theory. But I don't put down those who are of the other view. But each view does create a worldview philosophy that do conflict. But saying people like me are 'morons' and such makes the discussion about people, not the theory. let's keep it about the theories. I am cool with that.
If it can't be provable, demonstrable, repeatable then it is not solid science. It is a theory. No aspect of evolution nor ID has been proven by science's own definitions. So why limit the child's view by not even mentioning other non-proven views but are popular with a LARGE portion of acclaimed scientists. Let those kids proceed with science to remove the THEORY OF prefix from either. Let FACTS triumph! Not zeal.
The book certainly looks 'plotty'. But reading the review I can't figure where the 7th seal comes in? The from-dept's are usually witty and related - but here - maybe it's just 'Lost in Space'.
I agree - great ref to C.S.Lewis' Space trilogy. The books are, you know, written by a Christian Fundamentalist. While Clive (hist first name) would enjoy the origin of the rocks (from Mars, meteors spun 'round Mars to knock us on our noggins, etc) - the main character Ransom does believe in Creation, the wonderful expanses of the creation and yes, the heavenly hosts of each planet all bow down to a Most High Oyarsa. So maybe they are throwing the rocks at us. One of the posts said we don't create stuff anymore. Who did? . . . So maybe those on Malacandra (Mars) are tossin' the rocks at our noggins to get us to focus less on the age of the rocks (neat stuff to know) and MORE on the One who created them? (The Object Class of life from which all other class get their attributes!) If you happen to not see things this way, it was your reference to a solid Christian treatise in Science Fantasy that got me going) PS: I do enjoy your subtitles. Usually fun, great play on words, or like this story a good play on ideas by refercne. And keeps out minds going when we con't know what the subtitle refers to.
Cliff - thnx for bringing this forth. Joe - YEA! Both the post Cliff quoted & your comments are simple and effective. The web is helping break down this wall MS put up. Linux, Java, Apache are doing what Scott (Sun) and Larry (Oracle) could not do alone. Critical mass is building and even the Unix companies are coming along to support the effort. No kingdom ever lasts. It weakens itself at the core and they never can keep the strong grip at the outer edge. His refusal to provide open source weakens him at the core. The web is weakening him at the outer parts. It will fall. US Justice helped too. Its not even all their products are bad. Office sells very well. But when you feel handcuffs put on when you put our your hand in agreement, dissent does start. But even IBM knows how to smother them. Be better at supporting MS products then MS. So with four fronts attacking, the handcuffs are coming off.
I for one have the free version of SCO UnixWare 7.1, Caldera OpenLinux 2.3 and Win 98 running on 2 PCs. Once I find that $99 version of VMWare I will have them running concurrently. Win98 will be used when the Win compability prograns on Linux and/or SCOUnix won't run the Win program. So i get to buy the highly available stuff written for Win, but I don't fear the Blue Screen of death! I use the other stuff without losing Win's strehgth's. Kinda OpenSource style even now while using Win98. And all this while I am really just an old (47) Cobol programmer using OS/390. Thnx for listenin'.
SO - Let's see. You don't like COPPA. Your choice. But what do you offer to those who need our protection - the kids? The internet is open - so is a library. But do you let your or anyone else's kids take out any book? Regardless of the medium, information not right for kids is not right. And if your 'rights' are impaired I ask which is more important? Yours of the kids? Let's move towards a goal, not impair any movement you happen to not like.
I think the reason for the man & dollars are obvious. If you use Unix, you won't have people & money sucked up by the 'big' machine. (IBM of course at that time). Whaddya think?
This subject brings up a number of issues. 1) Why should we do this. Children are to be protected and shown some differing viewpoints - but not just any ol' stuff. Unless of course you think 10yr old kids should be told that sex with 40yr old men & 10yr old kids is fine. That is the kinda stuff I believe kids should be kept away from them. 2)This always brings up the matter of how much protection is right? We are not talking about in their homes but a matter of public access. Whenver a public formum such as the Internet needs some restricting, it will always be more than someone wants. But when it comes to kids, it has always been pruduent to side on the side of more protection, especially in a library. Like the way they are physically designed, there is a kid section & adult section. Would the librarian allow specific pornography to be checked out by a 10yr old? So why allow Internet access? 3) I could not read you entire article. Sorry, but the 14hr days at work kill my free time. While I gleaned that you were showing FRC some falicies of their solutiion, you really seemed to want to say that their reason for the solution is wrong, not the software. 4) KIDS! That is the issue here, not information freedom. They are classified as minors, with adults responsible for them. For a reson. Please, that is the issue. If we do not see that they get information that is age appropriate and not unfettered, we get kids who get power without understanding. 5) If you feel that FRC's solution is not correct, why not try a helpful hand, instead of just knocking what they have in their hand to the ground. 6) thanks for listening.