"So you are telling me that if I hired a contractor via a temp company, outside agency or independent contract that expectations of work for those personnel should be less than actual employees? Give me a break. If these people have an issue with the contract and terms they accepted then it is no ones fault but their own."
What I am telling you is if you hire a contracted employee and have him do the same job as your regular employees for years and years then you are breaking the law. The federal law states that it does not matter what the contract says it matters what is going on. You can not hire an employee as a "contractor" just to save a buck at the expense of the contractor. And we do not see, sign, or negotiate contracts. That is not the kind of contractors we are. It is stupid to make ignorant statements like "If these people have an issue with the contract and terms they accepted then it is no ones fault but their own" when you are uninformed of the actual situation. Next time you don't have all the facts just ask it is ok we will tell you. At least then your opinion may be wrong but at least it will not be an ignorant opinion.
"I guess I could litigate my way to employment, but for some odd reason I'd rather just compete on my skills."
You bring up some very good points. The reason I talked about some of the phones and stuff is that it is federally illegal to do so for long term. HP is making a buck by hiring regular employees and calling them temps. You are right about competing with skills and I hate litigation. I have never been involved in a case before. But there is more at stake her. My home economy, my friends and family, and the fact that my home state is being taken advantage of. As long as workers tolerate illegal behavior it will continue to get worse. I do not want to run this is my home. I want to fix the problem. I hope that in the future I can compete with what jobs are here with my skills and the law suit is unfortunate but necessary. If something is illegal it is illegal.
"please read previous string for what I am responding to"
I understand what you are saying. What I am trying to tell you is in at least Boise it is different. We have what they call "managed services" This department has not break in service. There are "contractors" who have been working 6 years plus in an HP cube with an HP e-mail address and an HP phone. They also do HP work and we do have performance evaluations. We have set schedules just like HP but we are called contracted. We do not make more money or even close. My "agency" wants 1200 a month for a family of 4 for health coverage. This is crazy. No one can afford benefits like this. It is rape. What Jennifer says is true that is why it is wrong and needs to be fixed. Thanks
"I really applaud your stance. I think, however, that HP (and the other 'client' corporations) are enablers for the contracting agencies to be leeches, but the real bastards are those taking nearly half off the top just to manage your damn timesheets. I've been a contractor at a company, and managed to turn things around and do contractor selection as an employee and see the pre-agency pay rates, I could not believe how much money was being paid, and how much was taken out without so much as a single benefit to explain the loss."
Thank you for the support. For the record we asked to make the agencies we worked for part of the lawsuit but were told we could not. We hope that by doing what we are doing we will cripple these companies who are taking advantage of us. This has also been addressed to HP long before this happened and the company did not care or help. This is the only option we have left.
""Jennifer Miller of Nampa is one of the plaintiffs.Miller said she faced the "same expectations... as an HP employee, but didn't get the same benefits as HP employees. That is not right."So she only worked a couple of months as a contractor? Sounds like a contract employee to me, not a perma-temp. Granted, she is only one of the plaintiff's, but it's also the only story really explained in the article.""
I know Jennifer Personally. Why do we attack individuals? First of all that was March of this year. She has worked for 10 years as a contract employee. I have seen other post talking about her being money hungry. Jennifer does not need money and is trying to help others by what she is doing. I don't mind if you disagree with what she is doing but do not judge her motives. This has been very bad for many years and many innocent families have been hurt because of the contractor system in Boise. She is trying to help fix that broken system.
Just to add a tidbit when a major company hires a "flexible" workforce they are also accomplishing a few other things.
1.) They have to report when they have a major layoff of regular employees but "contracted" they are obligated to do nothing. Then they do not have to watch their stock drop.
2.) They can as HP did last quarter lay off as many contactors as they want to show larger profit on the 4th quarter. Since they do not have to tell anyone it all appears to be profit and makes the stock go up. I watched a lot of good men and women loose their jobs last quarter. Some of them have been working in my department for 6 years plus. There was no notice, no severance, no thank you for your hard work. Just turn your badge in at the security desk and goodbye. This breaks my heart. These are hard working Americans who are trying to do their best, help make a company strive and then boom gone. If we signed contracts and negotiated our wages then maybe this would not be as bad but in the environment of Boise you work for HP and it is just another company that signs your checks (after taking a very large chunk).
If you are managed service employee there is no break in service. The break for others is 3 months after 2 years. The thing that I have found threw research and the help of a very respected lawyer is that we have been lied to for a long time about what a "contract" and a regular employee are. There are also addecco people on this law suit. If we win the case almost every contractor in Boise will loose his job. This is the bad part. Hopefully we will make the process change to a better process hopefully. If you are interested you should contact the lawyer and he will talk to you for free. He will also keep it confidential. If nothing more just to empower you in knowing what the differences are.
I am one of the "contractors" that are named on this suit. I am also a class rep on the commity that makes me one of the first 33 you read in the article. That being said I need to exsplain a few things, at least in boise, id.
1.) It is not really a choice to be a contractor or not in boise. Hp makes the economy go round here so they get away with whatever they want. They hire "contractors" to do the job not perm employees. To get in as an HP employee takes an act of congress most of the time. I am not a contractor by choice and neither are most of my associates
2.)I did not sign any contract and I do not get an i99 form. I do not have more freedom than a regular employee as a matter of fact it is the other way around.
3.)I do not get paid more money than a regular employee. There have been a lot of layoffs and plant shutdowns in the last few years and that makes the job market very difficult. Because of that the "company" I work for and HP know they can treat us how ever they want.
4.) Contract workers in my area have no uniouns, rights, and Idaho have almost no labor laws except what they have to adopt from the federal goverment. Do you start to see the picture I am painting?
5.) We are not temp workers, we were not hired for a special project. I work in the research and developement department at HP. I have been there for years and at the site for years. I work next to HP people doing the same job in the same building but get nothing.
6.) They tell you when you get hired that you are going to get a,b,c and d. Then they take away b, c, and d and a being your wages get cut. As a contractor there is no negotiation on this.
7.) I don't get raises because HP says there is a wage freeze. I don't get promoted because there is a position freeze. If I am contracted then how does HP get to command what I make, what my hours are, what I work on, how I do my job. Does this sound like a contracted worker to you? I live in a town that if you are an average joe trying to support your family and live your life this is your option. It is not right and it needs to change. HP and the "company" I work for are taking advantage of a bad economy and a right to work state.
We know that are negative outcomes to this but it has gotten so bad that when is enough enough. I am one of you another daddy, husband, techy trying to make it in the world. When do we as workers get to stand up and say enough is enough. If you disagree fine but but it with a generic informed view of the situation. Thank you for all the support to those who have given it.
I am one of the "contractors" that are named on this suit. I am also a class rep on the commity that makes me one of the first 33 you read in the article.
That being said I need to exsplain a few things, at least in boise, id.
1.) It is not really a choice to be a contractor or not in boise. Hp makes the economy go round here so they get away with whatever they want. They hire "contractors" to do the job not perm employees. To get in as an HP employee takes an act of congress most of the time. I am not a contractor by choice and neither are most of my associates
2.)I did not sign any contract and I do not get an i99 form. I do not have more freedom than a regular employee as a matter of fact it is the other way around.
3.)I do not get paid more money than a regular employee. There have been a lot of layoffs and plant shutdowns in the last few years and that makes the job market very difficult. Because of that the "company" I work for and HP know they can treat us how ever they want.
4.) Contract workers in my area have no uniouns, rights, and Idaho have almost no labor laws except what they have to adopt from the federal goverment. Do you start to see the picture I am painting?
5.) We are not temp workers, we were not hired for a special project. I work in the research and developement department at HP. I have been there for years and at the site for years. I work next to HP people doing the same job in the same building but get nothing.
6.) They tell you when you get hired that you are going to get a,b,c and d. Then they take away b, c, and d and a being your wages get cut. As a contractor there is no negotiation on this.
7.) I don't get raises because HP says there is a wage freeze. I don't get promoted because there is a position freeze. If I am contracted then how does HP get to command what I make, what my hours are, what I work on, how I do my job. Does this sound like a contracted worker to you?
I live in a town that if you are an average joe trying to support your family and live your life this is your option. It is not right and it needs to change. HP and the "company" I work for are taking advantage of a bad economy and a right to work state. We know that are negative outcomes to this but it has gotten so bad that when is enough enough. I am one of you another daddy, husband, techy trying to make it in the world. When do we as workers get to stand up and say enough is enough. If you disagree fine but but it with a generic informed view of the situation. Thank you for all the support to those who have given it.
Slashdot Mirror
"So you are telling me that if I hired a contractor via a temp company, outside agency or independent contract that expectations of work for those personnel should be less than actual employees? Give me a break. If these people have an issue with the contract and terms they accepted then it is no ones fault but their own." What I am telling you is if you hire a contracted employee and have him do the same job as your regular employees for years and years then you are breaking the law. The federal law states that it does not matter what the contract says it matters what is going on. You can not hire an employee as a "contractor" just to save a buck at the expense of the contractor. And we do not see, sign, or negotiate contracts. That is not the kind of contractors we are. It is stupid to make ignorant statements like "If these people have an issue with the contract and terms they accepted then it is no ones fault but their own" when you are uninformed of the actual situation. Next time you don't have all the facts just ask it is ok we will tell you. At least then your opinion may be wrong but at least it will not be an ignorant opinion.
"I guess I could litigate my way to employment, but for some odd reason I'd rather just compete on my skills." You bring up some very good points. The reason I talked about some of the phones and stuff is that it is federally illegal to do so for long term. HP is making a buck by hiring regular employees and calling them temps. You are right about competing with skills and I hate litigation. I have never been involved in a case before. But there is more at stake her. My home economy, my friends and family, and the fact that my home state is being taken advantage of. As long as workers tolerate illegal behavior it will continue to get worse. I do not want to run this is my home. I want to fix the problem. I hope that in the future I can compete with what jobs are here with my skills and the law suit is unfortunate but necessary. If something is illegal it is illegal.
"please read previous string for what I am responding to" I understand what you are saying. What I am trying to tell you is in at least Boise it is different. We have what they call "managed services" This department has not break in service. There are "contractors" who have been working 6 years plus in an HP cube with an HP e-mail address and an HP phone. They also do HP work and we do have performance evaluations. We have set schedules just like HP but we are called contracted. We do not make more money or even close. My "agency" wants 1200 a month for a family of 4 for health coverage. This is crazy. No one can afford benefits like this. It is rape. What Jennifer says is true that is why it is wrong and needs to be fixed. Thanks
"I really applaud your stance. I think, however, that HP (and the other 'client' corporations) are enablers for the contracting agencies to be leeches, but the real bastards are those taking nearly half off the top just to manage your damn timesheets. I've been a contractor at a company, and managed to turn things around and do contractor selection as an employee and see the pre-agency pay rates, I could not believe how much money was being paid, and how much was taken out without so much as a single benefit to explain the loss."
Thank you for the support. For the record we asked to make the agencies we worked for part of the lawsuit but were told we could not. We hope that by doing what we are doing we will cripple these companies who are taking advantage of us. This has also been addressed to HP long before this happened and the company did not care or help. This is the only option we have left.
""Jennifer Miller of Nampa is one of the plaintiffs.Miller said she faced the "same expectations ... as an HP employee, but didn't get the same benefits as HP employees. That is not right."So she only worked a couple of months as a contractor? Sounds like a contract employee to me, not a perma-temp. Granted, she is only one of the plaintiff's, but it's also the only story really explained in the article.""
I know Jennifer Personally. Why do we attack individuals? First of all that was March of this year. She has worked for 10 years as a contract employee. I have seen other post talking about her being money hungry. Jennifer does not need money and is trying to help others by what she is doing. I don't mind if you disagree with what she is doing but do not judge her motives. This has been very bad for many years and many innocent families have been hurt because of the contractor system in Boise. She is trying to help fix that broken system.
Just to add a tidbit when a major company hires a "flexible" workforce they are also accomplishing a few other things.
1.) They have to report when they have a major layoff of regular employees but "contracted" they are obligated to do nothing. Then they do not have to watch their stock drop.
2.) They can as HP did last quarter lay off as many contactors as they want to show larger profit on the 4th quarter. Since they do not have to tell anyone it all appears to be profit and makes the stock go up.
I watched a lot of good men and women loose their jobs last quarter. Some of them have been working in my department for 6 years plus. There was no notice, no severance, no thank you for your hard work. Just turn your badge in at the security desk and goodbye. This breaks my heart. These are hard working Americans who are trying to do their best, help make a company strive and then boom gone. If we signed contracts and negotiated our wages then maybe this would not be as bad but in the environment of Boise you work for HP and it is just another company that signs your checks (after taking a very large chunk).
If you are managed service employee there is no break in service. The break for others is 3 months after 2 years. The thing that I have found threw research and the help of a very respected lawyer is that we have been lied to for a long time about what a "contract" and a regular employee are. There are also addecco people on this law suit. If we win the case almost every contractor in Boise will loose his job. This is the bad part. Hopefully we will make the process change to a better process hopefully. If you are interested you should contact the lawyer and he will talk to you for free. He will also keep it confidential. If nothing more just to empower you in knowing what the differences are.
I am one of the "contractors" that are named on this suit. I am also a class rep on the commity that makes me one of the first 33 you read in the article. That being said I need to exsplain a few things, at least in boise, id.
1.) It is not really a choice to be a contractor or not in boise. Hp makes the economy go round here so they get away with whatever they want. They hire "contractors" to do the job not perm employees. To get in as an HP employee takes an act of congress most of the time. I am not a contractor by choice and neither are most of my associates
2.)I did not sign any contract and I do not get an i99 form. I do not have more freedom than a regular employee as a matter of fact it is the other way around.
3.)I do not get paid more money than a regular employee. There have been a lot of layoffs and plant shutdowns in the last few years and that makes the job market very difficult. Because of that the "company" I work for and HP know they can treat us how ever they want.
4.) Contract workers in my area have no uniouns, rights, and Idaho have almost no labor laws except what they have to adopt from the federal goverment. Do you start to see the picture I am painting?
5.) We are not temp workers, we were not hired for a special project. I work in the research and developement department at HP. I have been there for years and at the site for years. I work next to HP people doing the same job in the same building but get nothing.
6.) They tell you when you get hired that you are going to get a,b,c and d. Then they take away b, c, and d and a being your wages get cut. As a contractor there is no negotiation on this.
7.) I don't get raises because HP says there is a wage freeze. I don't get promoted because there is a position freeze. If I am contracted then how does HP get to command what I make, what my hours are, what I work on, how I do my job. Does this sound like a contracted worker to you? I live in a town that if you are an average joe trying to support your family and live your life this is your option. It is not right and it needs to change. HP and the "company" I work for are taking advantage of a bad economy and a right to work state.
We know that are negative outcomes to this but it has gotten so bad that when is enough enough. I am one of you another daddy, husband, techy trying to make it in the world. When do we as workers get to stand up and say enough is enough. If you disagree fine but but it with a generic informed view of the situation. Thank you for all the support to those who have given it.
I am one of the "contractors" that are named on this suit. I am also a class rep on the commity that makes me one of the first 33 you read in the article. That being said I need to exsplain a few things, at least in boise, id. 1.) It is not really a choice to be a contractor or not in boise. Hp makes the economy go round here so they get away with whatever they want. They hire "contractors" to do the job not perm employees. To get in as an HP employee takes an act of congress most of the time. I am not a contractor by choice and neither are most of my associates 2.)I did not sign any contract and I do not get an i99 form. I do not have more freedom than a regular employee as a matter of fact it is the other way around. 3.)I do not get paid more money than a regular employee. There have been a lot of layoffs and plant shutdowns in the last few years and that makes the job market very difficult. Because of that the "company" I work for and HP know they can treat us how ever they want. 4.) Contract workers in my area have no uniouns, rights, and Idaho have almost no labor laws except what they have to adopt from the federal goverment. Do you start to see the picture I am painting? 5.) We are not temp workers, we were not hired for a special project. I work in the research and developement department at HP. I have been there for years and at the site for years. I work next to HP people doing the same job in the same building but get nothing. 6.) They tell you when you get hired that you are going to get a,b,c and d. Then they take away b, c, and d and a being your wages get cut. As a contractor there is no negotiation on this. 7.) I don't get raises because HP says there is a wage freeze. I don't get promoted because there is a position freeze. If I am contracted then how does HP get to command what I make, what my hours are, what I work on, how I do my job. Does this sound like a contracted worker to you? I live in a town that if you are an average joe trying to support your family and live your life this is your option. It is not right and it needs to change. HP and the "company" I work for are taking advantage of a bad economy and a right to work state. We know that are negative outcomes to this but it has gotten so bad that when is enough enough. I am one of you another daddy, husband, techy trying to make it in the world. When do we as workers get to stand up and say enough is enough. If you disagree fine but but it with a generic informed view of the situation. Thank you for all the support to those who have given it.