Riiight... The nerds who go into computer science are the same as the dumb sports jocks who join fraternities. Now THAT'S bullshit.
You can't succeed in computer science by going out and partying every weekend. In fact, you pretty much have to sacrifice any pretext of a social life. There was a period of 2 years at the end when I didn't go out Friday or Saturday night during school because I was working on homework. That was EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND. And now you want to call me a beer-swilling frat daddy. Well... FUCK YOU.
Knowing a couple different programming languages does not make you a software engineer. I knew a few different programming languages BEFORE I started my degree. And you know what, I still learned a whole fucking lot. I learned tons of shit that I guarantee that you DO NOT know and aren't likely to pick up unless you spend YEARS hanging out with PhD's in computer science.
No, I wouldn't hire you with only an Associate's Degree. An AD only means you took what's normally considered prerequisites in a normal 4-year college. So, while you had plenty of English, Math, History, etc, you had almost no classes in computer science. And what few classes you have had, they're not likely to be the tough ones.
As for your experience, well that's shit. You automated CAD. Big whoop. And you made a website with what, an Access back end? Another big whoop. I can find some 18 year old graduating from high school with those exact same skills.
And while you didn't "mean to be abrasive or personally insulting here", you really could've fooled me.
The only reason I could see for going into deficit in order to meet military expenditures is if we were attacked. Iraq did not attack or even threaten us. Increasing our massive debt to pay for that war is reprehensible.
It's interesting that you bring up Social Security in this conversation. For the last 20+ years, the government has been taking extra money out of everyone's paychecks (although mostly affecting the people who make less than $90,000) and depositing that extra into the treasury. Therefore, we SHOULD be running a surplus like we were under Clinton. However, when Bush came in, he saw all this extra money and decided to give it to the rich in a big tax cut. Yes, that's right, Bush took from the poor to give to the rich. You can quote me on that.
So no, we should not go into deficit to fund social security. We should tax the rich to fix that. They were the primary beneficiaries of that social security money.
As for spending on pork, that's never a good idea.
Finally, pludering our most productive citizens in the poor and middle classes is reprehesible. Heaven knows the rich never actually produce anything themselves.
I believe each country is responsible for calculating their own savings rate. Other countries may calculate it a different way.
However, I would believe that Japan in particular spends less on housing than Americans. In general, adults in that country tend to live with their parents much longer than in the US. As such, they tend to have a higher disposable income since they are not paying rent or a mortgage.
But, that true comparison is not taking place. People are comparing the US high school that literally serves everyone, regardless of merit, to the German high schools which serve the elite.
If you're buying that widget from China, then I'd say yes, I have every right to stand in your way. China is not a free and open market. They peg the value of their currency to the dollar in order to artificially make their goods less expensive than ours. That creates a huge trade inbalance, which screws over our economy while pumping up theirs. Nevermind that their government is an evil communist regime that we should be working to topple, not prop up. Our market is more open and free than any other in the world. And now the world is raping us for that and not giving us equal value in return.
Interesting you're not talking about moral obligations any more. Where's the moral obligation to put everyone in our country out of work? How's anyone going to pay for that $7 widget? Where's the comparitive advantage of sending every job overseas? What's the strategic advantage of having all our vital goods and resources coming from hostile foreign countries?
Those early-career professionals without a degree only have a track record in the positions they worked in. For example, if they've been testing for 2 years, then they know nothing about development. If they've been in systems analysis, then they know nothing about project management. Whereas, the degree holder knows a great deal about development. In fact, the degree holder knows a great deal about testing, development, system analysis, project management, and more. The degree holder is guaranteed to have done it all.
Those early-career professionals without a degree have HUGE holes in their knowledge. Companies know what they're getting with degree holders and can only rely on resumes for non-degree holders. If that early-career tester with 2 years of experience straight out of high school came up against a CS grad for a development position, then that CS grad will win every time.
Yes, you are a crypto-slaver if you support H1-B's. Once a foreign worker gets to the US, they are locked to their employer for their right to remain here. That means as long as that employee wants to stay in the US, they have to do whatever their employer wants.
As far as a persistent trade deficit, one can't make a normative statement; it's not good or bad. Consider this: you run a persistent trade deficit with your local grocery store and gas station. Is that "good" or "bad"? And for whom? When the U.S. economy does well, the trade deficit increases because we're consuming resources, and presumably, putting them to better use than the next highest bidder.
Your example only makes sense if you pay with a credit card. The gas station gets their money and you get the bill. But you pay the minimum. You keep going to the gas station and pay the minimum. You hit your limit, call the credit card, and get your limit raised. How far do you keep raising your limit until your credit card company won't raise your limit again? THAT is what we're looking at with our, what, $9,000,000,000,000 in budget debt and $650,000,000,000 YEARLY trade inbalace.
Yes, we should be investing that money in our economy. But right now we're paying out the ass for defense spending. After that, we're likely to be paying out the ass for social security or medicaid, two programs that don't give a great rate of return.
Deficit spending is bad. It should only be done in EXTREME emergencies. Going into a deficit in order to fund tax cuts for the rich is extremely bad policy.
We already have learned something they haven't. That's why they are coming to our schools to learn what we know. That's why they are working at our companies to learn what we know. That's why we have to train them when they take our jobs.
Companies are only getting cheap workers when outsourcing. It has everything to do with money and little to do with anything else. Why we should race them to the bottom is beyond me.
People are not trade goods. Keeping foreign workers out of the US is not protectionism. Insinuating that they are trade goods harkins back to the slave period.
There is a difference between racism and nationalism. I am not racist one bit. However, I will do whatever I can to protect my country and its interests. And offering all our jobs to foreign workers is not in the interest of our country.
Yes, but the people going to trade school in Germany to be hair stylists don't go to German high schools. The point was that you can't compare the elite German high school to the American high school that literally serves everyone.
The problem is the way the number is calculated. Investments in real estate are considered consumption, not saving. When you make $50,000 and buy a $300,000 house, you are considered to have spent $250,000 over the year. This makes the savings rate look much worse than it actually is.
Germany for one with it's tiered high school system. High schools in that country only take the best students from lower level schools. Comparing their high schools to ours is not a fair comparison.
The average software engineer does not need advanced math to do his job. The only place I've ever used calculus in my programming was in graphics class back in college. And that was using elementary calculus that I learned in high school, not any of the advanced math I took.
If we had a good way to identify and promote people who have a natural talent in a field, we'd all be better off.
We do. It's called college. It's very efficient at vetting out people who want to get into a specific industry, but can't hack the work.
We have a lowest-common-denominator approach to educating people.
That is only true up through high school. In high school you start seeing a difference. For example, an honors student attending AP or community college classes gets a very different education from a low achieving student who takes the bare minimum to graduate. The low achieving student gets the base education, but the honors student truely excels.
Once you get to college, that lowest-common-denominator mindset is long gone. Even though you're paying the professors' salaries, they don't care if you drop out tomorrow and never return. My computer science professors seemed proud of the fact that they flunked 33% of each class they taught. They knew that their academic program counted on good students graduating and entering the field. They have NO qualms about letting a poor student fail.
Slashdot Mirror
Riiight... The nerds who go into computer science are the same as the dumb sports jocks who join fraternities. Now THAT'S bullshit.
You can't succeed in computer science by going out and partying every weekend. In fact, you pretty much have to sacrifice any pretext of a social life. There was a period of 2 years at the end when I didn't go out Friday or Saturday night during school because I was working on homework. That was EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND. And now you want to call me a beer-swilling frat daddy. Well... FUCK YOU.
Knowing a couple different programming languages does not make you a software engineer. I knew a few different programming languages BEFORE I started my degree. And you know what, I still learned a whole fucking lot. I learned tons of shit that I guarantee that you DO NOT know and aren't likely to pick up unless you spend YEARS hanging out with PhD's in computer science.
No, I wouldn't hire you with only an Associate's Degree. An AD only means you took what's normally considered prerequisites in a normal 4-year college. So, while you had plenty of English, Math, History, etc, you had almost no classes in computer science. And what few classes you have had, they're not likely to be the tough ones.
As for your experience, well that's shit. You automated CAD. Big whoop. And you made a website with what, an Access back end? Another big whoop. I can find some 18 year old graduating from high school with those exact same skills.
And while you didn't "mean to be abrasive or personally insulting here", you really could've fooled me.
The only reason I could see for going into deficit in order to meet military expenditures is if we were attacked. Iraq did not attack or even threaten us. Increasing our massive debt to pay for that war is reprehensible.
It's interesting that you bring up Social Security in this conversation. For the last 20+ years, the government has been taking extra money out of everyone's paychecks (although mostly affecting the people who make less than $90,000) and depositing that extra into the treasury. Therefore, we SHOULD be running a surplus like we were under Clinton. However, when Bush came in, he saw all this extra money and decided to give it to the rich in a big tax cut. Yes, that's right, Bush took from the poor to give to the rich. You can quote me on that.
So no, we should not go into deficit to fund social security. We should tax the rich to fix that. They were the primary beneficiaries of that social security money.
As for spending on pork, that's never a good idea.
Finally, pludering our most productive citizens in the poor and middle classes is reprehesible. Heaven knows the rich never actually produce anything themselves.
Bullshit. Cutting taxes to benefit the rich while sending our budget into deficit is poor policy.
I believe each country is responsible for calculating their own savings rate. Other countries may calculate it a different way.
However, I would believe that Japan in particular spends less on housing than Americans. In general, adults in that country tend to live with their parents much longer than in the US. As such, they tend to have a higher disposable income since they are not paying rent or a mortgage.
But, that true comparison is not taking place. People are comparing the US high school that literally serves everyone, regardless of merit, to the German high schools which serve the elite.
If there are so many of these countries out there, why don't you pick one for a real example.
If you're buying that widget from China, then I'd say yes, I have every right to stand in your way. China is not a free and open market. They peg the value of their currency to the dollar in order to artificially make their goods less expensive than ours. That creates a huge trade inbalance, which screws over our economy while pumping up theirs. Nevermind that their government is an evil communist regime that we should be working to topple, not prop up. Our market is more open and free than any other in the world. And now the world is raping us for that and not giving us equal value in return.
Interesting you're not talking about moral obligations any more. Where's the moral obligation to put everyone in our country out of work? How's anyone going to pay for that $7 widget? Where's the comparitive advantage of sending every job overseas? What's the strategic advantage of having all our vital goods and resources coming from hostile foreign countries?
Those early-career professionals without a degree only have a track record in the positions they worked in. For example, if they've been testing for 2 years, then they know nothing about development. If they've been in systems analysis, then they know nothing about project management. Whereas, the degree holder knows a great deal about development. In fact, the degree holder knows a great deal about testing, development, system analysis, project management, and more. The degree holder is guaranteed to have done it all.
Those early-career professionals without a degree have HUGE holes in their knowledge. Companies know what they're getting with degree holders and can only rely on resumes for non-degree holders. If that early-career tester with 2 years of experience straight out of high school came up against a CS grad for a development position, then that CS grad will win every time.
Yes, you are a crypto-slaver if you support H1-B's. Once a foreign worker gets to the US, they are locked to their employer for their right to remain here. That means as long as that employee wants to stay in the US, they have to do whatever their employer wants.
As far as a persistent trade deficit, one can't make a normative statement; it's not good or bad. Consider this: you run a persistent trade deficit with your local grocery store and gas station. Is that "good" or "bad"? And for whom? When the U.S. economy does well, the trade deficit increases because we're consuming resources, and presumably, putting them to better use than the next highest bidder.
Your example only makes sense if you pay with a credit card. The gas station gets their money and you get the bill. But you pay the minimum. You keep going to the gas station and pay the minimum. You hit your limit, call the credit card, and get your limit raised. How far do you keep raising your limit until your credit card company won't raise your limit again? THAT is what we're looking at with our, what, $9,000,000,000,000 in budget debt and $650,000,000,000 YEARLY trade inbalace.
Yes, we should be investing that money in our economy. But right now we're paying out the ass for defense spending. After that, we're likely to be paying out the ass for social security or medicaid, two programs that don't give a great rate of return.
Deficit spending is bad. It should only be done in EXTREME emergencies. Going into a deficit in order to fund tax cuts for the rich is extremely bad policy.
We already have learned something they haven't. That's why they are coming to our schools to learn what we know. That's why they are working at our companies to learn what we know. That's why we have to train them when they take our jobs.
Companies are only getting cheap workers when outsourcing. It has everything to do with money and little to do with anything else. Why we should race them to the bottom is beyond me.
Actually, this is a great reason for reducing offshoring and outsourcing. We shouldn't be dependent on other nations for our strategic needs.
Foreign aid is one thing. Purposefully giving them our jobs is another.
People are not trade goods. Keeping foreign workers out of the US is not protectionism. Insinuating that they are trade goods harkins back to the slave period.
There is a difference between racism and nationalism. I am not racist one bit. However, I will do whatever I can to protect my country and its interests. And offering all our jobs to foreign workers is not in the interest of our country.
With overall enrollments in CS decreasing, we need to look at how to get members of BOTH sexes interested in CS.
Yes, but the people going to trade school in Germany to be hair stylists don't go to German high schools. The point was that you can't compare the elite German high school to the American high school that literally serves everyone.
The problem is the way the number is calculated. Investments in real estate are considered consumption, not saving. When you make $50,000 and buy a $300,000 house, you are considered to have spent $250,000 over the year. This makes the savings rate look much worse than it actually is.
MOD PARENT UP
Get into a conversation on whether a degree is necessary or not. You'll see what I mean.
Considering Denmark is about the same size as Connecticut, that seems like a fair test.
Germany for one with it's tiered high school system. High schools in that country only take the best students from lower level schools. Comparing their high schools to ours is not a fair comparison.
The average software engineer does not need advanced math to do his job. The only place I've ever used calculus in my programming was in graphics class back in college. And that was using elementary calculus that I learned in high school, not any of the advanced math I took.
Don't forget the pervasive attitude in IT that says a degree in CS isn't necessary. Hell, in some circles there's outright disdain for degree holders.
If we had a good way to identify and promote people who have a natural talent in a field, we'd all be better off.
We do. It's called college. It's very efficient at vetting out people who want to get into a specific industry, but can't hack the work.
We have a lowest-common-denominator approach to educating people.
That is only true up through high school. In high school you start seeing a difference. For example, an honors student attending AP or community college classes gets a very different education from a low achieving student who takes the bare minimum to graduate. The low achieving student gets the base education, but the honors student truely excels.
Once you get to college, that lowest-common-denominator mindset is long gone. Even though you're paying the professors' salaries, they don't care if you drop out tomorrow and never return. My computer science professors seemed proud of the fact that they flunked 33% of each class they taught. They knew that their academic program counted on good students graduating and entering the field. They have NO qualms about letting a poor student fail.