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  1. Re:It's about time. on The Prodigy Puzzle · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Hell, in general the US could use a major overhaul of the educational system. It's way too focused on conformity and process than on results.

    Well, I hate to break it to you, but conformity and "proper" socialization are primary goals of the public schools. They may even be a higher priority than learning.

    I hope I don't sound like the type wears a tinfoil hat to block and/or magnify my brain waves, but I really do think that is what the schools are set up to do. And for what it's worth, it's not an entirely bad thing to include some of that in your goals as a school. Society will work better if kids who beat up other kids learn they'll be punished, if people are taught to show up on time and be respectful to others (not just those in authority), if they're encouraged to be organized and dress neatly and all that. The problem happens when learning goes out the window in favor of all those other goals.

  2. Re:Typical ... help the top 3 percent screw the re on The Prodigy Puzzle · · Score: 2, Informative
    Also what about helpping out the other 97 percent. I think America would be better off with 97 percent average or above children then 3 percent genius and 97 percent retarted.

    I don't mean to be mean, but I think if you think the lower 97 percent can be average or above, then your math skills might not be that great.

  3. Re:Complaints from female friends on Online Daters Sue Matchmaking Web Sites for Fraud · · Score: 1
    For all those seeking, I would offer advice.

    Hey, as long as we're offering advice, here are my pointers for women writing profiles on dating sites. These are based on actual experience reading women's profiles.

    1. Don't post a photo of you and your friends if your friends are all way, way hotter than you. Yes, I know that hotness is by and large a subjective thing, but when you do this, one of two things happens. Either the guy looks at the picture and his eyes are drawn to the absolute babe standing next to you and then he's disappointed when he figures out which one is you, or the guy knows which one is you and starts thinking, "Hmm, would it be tacky to write this girl and ask her if she can hook me up with her hot friend?" Most, but not all, guys then realize that it would be tacky.
    2. On a similar note, don't post 12 different pictures on your profile, all of which have 8 people in them, and yet give no indication which one of them is you. Yes, I'm sure you know what you look like and it's obvious to you which one you are, but it's just a tad annoying having to look through all eight and try to find the one person who is in all of them, especially if some of your friends appear in several. See also the hot friend advice in the previous post: if you have pictures of a ton of people up there, odds are excellent that one of them is hotter than you.
    3. Don't say that you are "equally comfortable in jeans and high heels", because although you may not realize it, at least 75% of all girls say that. In fact, if you want to know if a profile is written by a girl and not by a guy posing as a girl, look for that phrase. It's the best indicator that the profile was actually written by a woman for one simple reason: guys don't know what it means or why it's important. Is it because it's important to be able to handle both casual and formal situations? Are the girls trying to say that they're diverse and flexible? Are they trying to say they're not high-maintenance? I don't know, and neither does any other guy.
    4. Speaking of things guys don't know anything about, avoid stating your dress size if you're trying to impress people that you are in shape or, alternately, trying to prevent them from expecting you to be thin when you're not. As a guy, I can confidently say that I don't really know much about dress sizes (other than that larger numbers mean larger dresses) because I, like most guys, don't often buy dresses. Sure, I've dated women, and I have a good idea whether they're small or large, but I don't go rooting around through their closet looking at the sizes of the clothes. And on the occasions when I've removed their clothes, I guess I did have the opportunity at that time, but I've generally been focused on things other than the labels.
  4. Re:welcome to 2001 on Curbing Energy Use In Appliances That Are Off · · Score: 1
    http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,87100,0 0.asp

    Bush also inadvertently coined a great spoonerism about power-stealing vampires when talking about this initiative.

    I don't get it -- what's the spoonerism? It's not "wall wart" is it? It can't be "wall wart" because that article is from July, 2001, and the term "wall wart" was around many years before that. Go search Google Groups -- I found two uses of the term as far back as 1989.

    And for what it's worth, a transformer that is inline (as opposed to hanging off the wall socket) is called a "line lump".

  5. Re:Appropriate jail-time for spammers on British Spammer Gets 6 Years · · Score: 1
    Six years!!! For spam!!! Ok, it's very annoying, but I would violently protest anyone getting anything more than a month for just sending spam. Does anyone know how long you actually get/how much you have to pay for sending spam?

    I think I have an idea for that. The punishment should fit the crime. And here's how it should work.

    Just like people are sentenced to community service for lots of things, spammers should be sentenced to community service as well. But in their case, it should be a specific type of community service: they have to be manual spam filters.

    Everybody knows that for certain messages, humans are better at figuring out whether the message is spam or not. If there were no cost to determining if a message is spam, then spam would really not be a big problem. (Yes, it would bog down mail servers, but that would be the limit of the damage.)

    So, if a spammer sends a million spam messages, the punishment should be that he has to go through a million mail messages and correctly mark them as spam or not spam with an error rate below a certain percentage, say less than 0.5%. As soon as he manually detects as many spam messages as he has sent (or maybe twice as many, in order to make up for the other costs to society, such as the cost of putting him on trial), his debt to society is paid and his punishment is over.

    Obviously, you would need a way to ensure that he is doing the work correctly. But that can be addressed by having other spammers classify the same messages (and by having a few non- criminals also classify some) and seeing if their decisions correlate. If the spammers (and the others) are given no knowledge of whose work theirs is being compared to and whether a given message is being checked, it will be very hard for them to defeat the mechanism.

    If the spammer's work doesn't meet the quality standards for a given batch of messages, then that batch simply doesn't count against his debt and he makes no progress.

    I'm not sure how many seconds it will take the spammer to do the average e-mail, but if it takes 1 second per message, and if they work for 8 hours a day, then they should be able to get through a million messages in about 35 work days, so about 7 weeks. And if 75% of those are spam, then that means they will have made up for sending 750_000 spam messages.

    Naturally, if the spammer wants to use some software to automate the classification, they are free to do that. But they must still maintain the 99.5% rate of correct classification, or whatever rate is deemed appropriate.

    To me, it seems hard to argue that this punishment is unfair in any way. It just requires the spammer to compensate society for exactly the kind and exactly the quantity of damage they did by spamming.

  6. Re:He's keeping the money? on British Spammer Gets 6 Years · · Score: 1
    "[spammer] defied Judge Nicholas Coleman QC by refusing to reveal where he hid up to £425,000, saying Cambridgeshire Police would 'steal' it."

    That'd be an outrage if he really ends up with all that, they should make a condition he never gets released unless he says where he hid the cash if he withdrew it or moves it all back into the UK if he transferred his profits offshore.

    Nah, they should just watch him like a hawk when he's released. If he goes to get the money, wherever it is, they should then arrest him a new charge of trafficking in stolen goods or something along those lines. Surely it's still a crime to try to get the money or use it if you didn't earn it legally in the first place.

    Then when they've got their new evidence of him committing a new crime, lock him up again. The best part about this is that he'll look forward to his release for 6 years, and then very shortly after he's released, it's right back into the slammer. It's got to be more of a buzz kill to get your hopes up and then have them dashed.

    Also, can't the victims either press charges or bring a civil case against him to have their money returned plus damages and court costs? Maybe even a class-action suit if they have those in .uk?

  7. Re:2 much or 2 little? on British Spammer Gets 6 Years · · Score: 1
    At first glance you think "6 years for spam...damn that's harsh".

    No, I don't think that's harsh at all. Let's say you send a million messages per batch and you do 100 batches of spam over the course of a year. (That's two batches each week.) Now, let's further say the average recipient of your spam spends 5 seconds of their life downloading it, realizing it's spam, and deleting it. That means you've wasted 1_000_000 * 100 / 3600 * 5 hours, or 138_888 hours of people's time.

    Now, let's compare that to what would happen if you spent your life doing things that are actually productive. If you work a full time job from age 18 up to age 68, that's 50 years of work and 2000 hours a year. So that's 100_000 hours of useful work you can get done.

    So what's the point? The point is, the guy has already stolen more time than he'd spend working his entire life. He's already pretty much ensured, unless he does something spectacular like finding a cure for a disease, that his net lifetime contribution to society will be negative. He has, essentially, already wasted the equivalent of one lifetime of other people's time.

  8. Re:TANSTAAFL? on Truckers Choose Hydrogen Power · · Score: 1
    Can someone please explain to me why TANSTAAFL does not come to bear on this?

    Yes, anyone who has read the article and has good reading comprehension can explain it. Here's a sentence from the article:

    Trucks with the HFI system produce half the amount of particulates -- microscopic, unburned bits of diesel.

    Now, let's see... we're talking about a diesel engine whose efficiency is claimed to have been increased, so what seems interesting about that sentence? How about the words "half", "unburned bits", and "diesel"? In a diesel engine, unburned diesel fuel would seem to be a source of inefficiency, I would think.

    So, the answer here appears to be that this system causes less of the fuel to be sent out the exhaust. And by the way, you're right that TANSTAAFL: it costs $4,000 to $14,000 to modify the vehicle to increase its efficiency by 10%, and I'm sure there are increased maintenance costs on account of the fact that you're adding new mechanical bits that didn't exist before. On the other hand, for a vehicle where the monthly diesel bill is $7000, it might be worth it to increase efficiency.

  9. Re:Stereo on Stereo View of the Sun · · Score: 1

    Geez, was I too subtle? This being Slashdot, I thought at least somebody here would've seen movies by a certain director...

  10. Re:You know the chip is a flop when... on New Server Chip Niagara · · Score: 1

    One phrase: 8 cores + with 16/8 K cache per core and **one** L2 cache.
    [ ... ]
    So is this an 8-port L2 ? What is the latency on it when all 8 cores are busy? etc... I think we'll find this core will suffer greatly from this point.

    I think you'll find that Sun engineers have thought of all that. In fact, here is a paper that specifically addresses all the points you've mentioned.

    Basically, the answer is that it doesn't appear to be a problem for two main reasons. The first is that each core has up to four active threads at once. The cores have zero overhead for switching between one of the four hardware threads and another, as compared to continuing to execute the same thread. In fact, "thread select" is one of the stages of the pipeline, and the cores are designed to constantly switch between threads so that of the available-to-run threads, the least-recently-used one is selected on each cycle.

    As a result, simply having to switch threads due to L2 / memory access will not impose any penalty. For the core to sit idle and any time to be lost due to waiting on memory, all four hardware threads would have to be unavailable to run. And there are four threads, unlike (say) Intel's chips that have Hyperthreading with only two threads. Increasing the number of threads increases the chance that at least one will be available to run. For example, with 2 threads that have a 50% chance of being available to run at any given time, the odds of having none that are runnable are 50%^2, or 25%. With 4 threads and the same 50% chance, the odds of having none that are runnable are 50%^4, or only 6.25%. The results are four times as good with 4 threads as they are with 2 threads.

    Now, given that you have a limited amount of real estate on that silicon, the question then becomes: what is the best way to make use of it? If you have to choose between 4 threads per core with limited L1 cache and 2 threads per core with more L1 cache, which is a better choice for minimizing memory access problems? Maybe increasing the number of threads is a more effective strategy than increasing the size of a cache. Remember, the goal of Niagara is throughput for workloads that naturally have tons of threads. Blocking a thread to wait on L2 cache essentially doesn't matter as long as your core isn't sitting idle because all its threads are blocked. The PDF I linked to indicates they evaluated the projected workloads and found that increasing the size of the L1 cache didn't really increase the hit rate much, so it would seem that increasing threads per core might really be a better use of the real estate.

    To elaborate on that for a second, the real serious hit is going to be when the system goes to memory. That is going to take one of the threads out of the game for a long, long time. Having to wait a while on L2 cache is not nearly as serious a problem, because although it does prevent the thread from being runnable, it only does so for a relatively short time. As long as the total bandwidth to the L2 cache isn't too low, access time for the L2 cache isn't going to make much difference either way.

    The second main reason this isn't likely to be a problem is that the L2 cache is broken into 4 banks. Each of the 8 cores connects to the L2 cache banks through a crossbar interconnect, so each cache bank can be talking to a different core simultaneously. So, no, it's not an 8-port L2 cache, but it does support four accesses at once by interleaving, so contention for the cache probably isn't a significant problem.

    Also, one other little minor detail to keep in mind: the SPARC architecture specifies register windows, and the Niagara implementation of SPARC has 8 register windows, with 16 registers per window (because when changing windows, you shift two 8-register positions). Each thread has its own set of register

  11. Re:Programmer testing? on Unit Test Your Aspects · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Programmer testing? That means testing programmers, as in certifying them? Apparently not.

    From the context, it seemed pretty obvious to me that "programmer testing" means testing that is performed by programmers, as opposed to by a separate part of the development team that specializes in testing.

    Having the programmer do some of the testing of his/her own code makes sense to me for several reasons:

    1. Coverage. The programmer has a more intimate knowledge of the code and thus has better insight into ways it can fail than people who are looking at the code as a black box, which is basically what testers do. For example, if the programmer knows the code uses his own implementation of a hash, he knows to think about adding a test where the input data has two strings that have the same hash value to see if it properly handles collisions.
    2. Testing efficiency. Because the programmer knows what the code is supposed to do, what the contracts are between classes and their clients, etc., etc., it's easier for the programmer to construct certain tests than for another person to learn these things and then create the tests. (Although on the other hand, the second pair of eyes might find things that the programmer didn't think of.)
    3. Development cycle efficiency. If a programmer does the tests as he's developing things, he will discover bugs much sooner than if someone else is doing them. Perhaps days sooner. In general, the sooner bugs are discovered, the better, for several reasons. One is that code is easier to fix when it's still fresh in your mind. Another is that bugs may indicate a design flaw that will need to be corrected and may affect interfaces and thus require changes to client code (which may be written by other developers), and that creates overhead. Also, it means development versions of the software will be more stable and easier to work with (fewer crash scenarios to avoid when demoing to the boss, checking out if it's as usable as you thought, etc.)
    4. Tracking overhead. If the programmer fixes bugs while still in the process of developing things, then he is the only one who has to know about the bug. Which means it doesn't have to go into a bug database, nobody has to spend 5 minutes discussing it in a meeting, etc.
    5. Finding the source. If the programmer does the testing, it's much easier to trace that back to the source of the problem than if the tester just notices that the software fails in a certain scenario. It takes work to go from a scenario to the point where you know whose code fails (and thus who should fix it).

    I'm sure there are other reasons, but the point is this: in many cases, increasing the amount of testing that the programmer can do is advantageous. (At least up to a point -- you need a second pair of eyes, and you need someone who tests how all the modules interact to see if the system as a whole works as expected.) But still, finding ways to make it possible and to make it easy for programmers to add more tests and better tests is usually a good thing.

  12. Re:Stereo on Stereo View of the Sun · · Score: 1
    Wait, stereo is only two channels. Wouldn't Dolby make more sense?

    Perhaps THX would be even better. In fact, I think you could say that THX is all about seeing the Sun.

  13. Re:Uhh... on Classic TV for Free Download · · Score: 1
    AOL says that since it will control the network, it can protect users from the sorts of viruses and spyware that infect other peer-to-peer systems.
    Sounds like a challenge to me.

    Not really that tough of a challenge. AOL has the huge, huge advantage going for them that they are the only party that inserts content into the network, and they are also the party that provides the software (even if it's just a specially-configured distribution of software someone else wrote) that the end-user uses to retrieve the video. In other words, they control both endpoints of the communications link.

    Therefore, the problem of ensuring that no viruses or spyware or anything creeps into the data somewhere along the way is quite easy to solve: just use public/private key cryptography and sign all the content. Distribute the public key (there only needs to be one, since there is only one party inserting content into the network) with the software so that all users of the software can verify the content that AOL is distributing. Presto, you have a network that's essentially immune to viruses and other malicious stuff being inserted, unless AOL inserts them. There really isn't much technical challenge to that.

    The second thing to worry about is if the code that implements this content distribution network has remote exploits, such as buffer overflows or data that's not checked before it's interpreted by something with privileges. That's less easy to solve, but people have written software without remote exploits before, so it can be done. One possible shortcut would be to write the code in Java or some other language that has bounds checking on arrays; that eliminates buffer overflows right there. (In fact, Java would be perfect for something like this: most of the performance hit with Java is in starting up, and this thing will have to run continuously at least as long as you're watching a 30-minute TV program. And garbage collection isn't even likely to be necessary very often since it's just transferring streams of data over the network, which mostly involves copying back and forth between a fixed set of buffers, i.e. very little allocation.)

  14. Re:Toe in the water on Mac OS X x86 Put To The Test · · Score: 1
    The whole reason people buy macs is for the stability of OSX. If apple had to start supporting 3rd party hardware, this level of stability would severely drop.

    True if Apple supports OS X on all PC hardware. But what if they support it only the PC hardware from certain partners? What if Dell or Gateway or someone makes a deal with Apple and they test and verify OS X on certain known configurations of PC hardware, then Apple's partner or partners sells OS X only on those configurations of machines?

    That's essentially equivalent to what Apple is doing right now with their own hardware; the difference would be that they'd be involving a third party (a licensee) in the process.

  15. Re:daft... on Sony Music CD's Contain Mac DRM Software Too · · Score: 2, Insightful
    are sony that determined to bury themselves?

    Well, they are still using Memory Stick in cameras, laptops, etc. even though it's clear that SD Card has won that battle. Sony is weird like that. The seem to have an attitude that since they are such a big electronics manufacturer that they can single-handedly define industry standards.

    (But if that were true, we'd be talking about copy-protection on Minidisc, not CD...)

  16. Re:Make a fortune on Sony Music CD's Contain Mac DRM Software Too · · Score: 1
    Reasonable, yes, but legally workable not really, at least according to Sony. The sony eula says you must destroy any and all fair use copies of the music you possess,

    Why would I bother reading or agreeing to any license agreement just to play a CD?

    Yes, I realize it has copy protection that asks me to do so, but is there any legal requirement for me to enter into some kind of agreement when I've already bought the thing? I don't have to enter into agreement with other CDs I've bought, so I can't see why I'd be legally required to pay any attention to the EULA that comes with some Sony CD even if it has one.

    Similarly, if there is a company that offers the service of making copies that are DRM-free, if it truly is an End-User License Agreement, then they can ignore it as well, for two reasons. The first is the reason described above -- that there is no legal requirement to pay attention to it. The second is that the company that offers this service of copying the media isn't an end user. They are a service provider who makes the content easier to use.

    And even if all this turns out to be wrong, the company that performs the service can keep the original copy but specify in their policy that you continue to own the original copy-protected CD even if they store it for you.

  17. Re:Firefox 1.5-- and FUD! on Firefox 1.5 RC2 Available · · Score: 1
    Several magazine articles have recently documented the security concerns with Firefox compared to IE. Firefox did not fare well.

    Oh my gosh -- they said it in a magazine article!? Well, then it must be true!

  18. Re:Pretty dumb summary on U.S. Scientists Call for a Time Change · · Score: 1
    What the US scientists are suggesting is that we ignore the earth's rotation in our time-keeping, and just try to keep roughly in synch by arbitrarily adding leap-seconds (as opposed to adding them based on our actual observation of the slowing of the earth's rotation).

    Silly question, but if we don't care whether timekeeping remains in sync with the Earth's rotation, then why bother with a leap second at all? Why not just abolish the thing completely? For that matter, why bother with leap days every 4-ish years if we no longer care about keeping our clocks in sync with astronomical phenomena?

  19. Re:Why not adopt a universal ttime? on U.S. Scientists Call for a Time Change · · Score: 1
    Just to be perfectly clear, everyone would still go to sleep when it was dark and everyone would still get up for work/school/whatever when it became light out again. It would just VASTLY simplify moving between our current time zones or communicating with people in a different one. If someone works from 12:00 AM to 8:00 AM world time and I work from 6:00 AM to 2:00 PM world time, it's going to be damn easy to know that 6:00 AM to 8:00 AM is the timeslot we have to work with for meetings.

    It would simplify that particular calculation, but it would make others more complex. Let's suppose you are on vacation in a big city far enough away that today it's in a different time zone. And let's suppose you want to go to go eat dinner and then go for a walk on the beach at sunset. What time is sunset? With time zones, you can guess that it will be within one hour of what sunset is at home, if you haven't changed to a different lattitude. If everyone uses the same clock, then you have to know what time local sunset is according to absolute time -- this is a value that would essentially be a constant with time zones (or only a function of latitude), but with absolute time it is a function of both latitude and longitude.

    Second example: you're on a trip and you're not feeling so hot. You need to go see a doctor. Where you live, doctors' offices typically close at 3am. But what time do they close where you are now? 5am? 1am? Are you east or west of where you live?

    Basically, if you adopt universal time with no time zones, you make things easier in some situations but the price is that you make things harder in other situations.

  20. Re:Fuel? on Using Gravity To Tow Asteroids · · Score: 1
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't pulling it with gravity use even MORE fuel, since you're basically expending the same amount of fuel to move the target, plus additional fuel to move the 20-ton gravity "tug"?

    Yes. But, the weight of the ship is surely negligible compared to the weight of the asteroid. You are going to do this over a period of years, so the gravitational force between them doesn't need to be that large, which means the craft doesn't have to have a very high mass relative to the spacecraft.

    Also, if the asteroid is tumbling through space, you'll have to turn off the thrusters when you're facing the wrong direction. If you do a gravity tug thing, you can point the thrusters in exactly the right direction 100% of the time and leave them running continuously. If you mount the thrusters on the asteroid, then theoretically the thrusters are facing the exact right direction exactly zero time (when you rotate, you go through an infinite number of angles, and only one of them is exactly right). In practice, if they're only 10 degrees off, the efficiency isn't that bad (cosine of 10 degrees), and so on, but even so you can only leave them on about 25% of the time, because they drop to 70% efficiency when you are 45 degrees off the angle you want, and you will be 45 degrees off or worse for 75% of the time.

    I suppose you could build articulated thrusters in your landing craft to reduce this problem, but it starts to seem simpler and more efficient just to use gravity.

  21. Re:Risk of big vs. risk of landing on Using Gravity To Tow Asteroids · · Score: 1
    Scaling up launch systems to put 20 tons next to an asteroid carries a high degree of risk, too. The complex scaling relationships in rockets mean you can't just double every dimension to make a rocket X times as big.

    No, but you can just make X times as many rockets. Make 20 rockets and send 1 ton of payload with each, then have them rendevous, snap together into a single spacecraft, then head for the asteroid if you want.

    Or heck, make 20 rockets with 1 ton spacecrafts and have all 20 spacecrafts separately head for the asteroid and work in formation to pull the asteroid onto a different course, with each spacecraft doing 1/20th the work.

    Hmm, in fact, splitting it up into 20 separate crafts actually decreases the risk of mission failure. Just send 10 extras, and now only 2/3 of them have to do their job for the mission to succeed.

  22. Re:Why can't we simply use an Ion engine. on Using Gravity To Tow Asteroids · · Score: 4, Interesting
    But if we are talking about parking a spacecraft next to an asteroid, why couldn't you simply mount an ion engine on opposite sides of a space craft, and point one beam at the asteroid, and one beam in the opposite direction.

    I thought of this exact idea, but then realized there is bit of a wrinkle: the ion stream will be pushing the asteriod away from the craft (and vice versa) but at the same time, gravity will be pulling them towards each other. So, you will be working against gravity.

    And then the problem becomes that ion thrusters don't tend to have a very high amount of thrust. Their strength is that they can produce thrust without wasting very much matter because of the high velocity with which the ions move away from craft. So, I wonder if the ion drive will even produce as much force as the gravitational attraction between the asteroid and the craft. It might not. Even if it does, you still are fighting against gravity.

  23. Re:Save Money on Using Gravity To Tow Asteroids · · Score: 1
    Just send Kristie Alley up there. That should work.

    Actually, you may have an idea there. Kirstie Alley didn't start off fat: she started off normal and then gained weight. Since it requires so much fuel to get a 20-ton spacecraft out of Earth's gravitational field, maybe the spacecraft should start off lean and mean and then put on the pounds as it travels through space on the way to the asteroid.

    How hard is it to design a spacecraft to gain weight? I'm not sure specifically how you'd do this. Maybe put a giant funnel on the front and collect space dust in a plastic bag? Or use charged plates to collect ions? Sheets of magnetized material to collect particles with iron in them? Interstellar space is almost a perfect vacuum, but there is stuff floating around within the solar system. Seems like there could be a way to collect a few tons of it if your voyage is going to take 10 years anyway.

  24. Re:schools should teach neither on Kansas Board of Ed. Adopts Intelligent Design · · Score: 1
    Evolution is a fact. ID is nothing more than myth.

    I agree that there is some really great scientific evidence for evolution. I experienced some very compelling evidence of it last weekend: I got a flu shot. The reason this is compelling evidence for evolution is that I've gotten flu shots before, but I had to get another one this year because there are new strains of flu that didn't exist last year. That's evolution.

    But, it's still a leap from "evolution occurs" (for which there is compelling evidence) to "evolution is solely responsible for the origin of life on Earth and there were no supernatural forces guiding the process along". Although it might not have been 100% clear from what I posted, it is the latter that I am saying is not a fact.

    Yes, intelligent design is a myth, but not all myths are necessarily false, and as I said before, some people take it axiomatic that some knowledge can only be gained by revelation from a source outside of the physical universe.

    Science class should teach science and that is all it should teach.

    I agree with this too. However, my statement was that the schools should teach that there are alternate points of view on this subject, not that this should take place in science classes specifically. In fact, it might fit better in a history class, although you could argue that it is an interdisciplinary subject, since it involves philosophy, religion, history, and science. In fact, you could argue that it might best be categorized as "history of science", and if there is no room for a separate history of science class, then that would have to go in either history or science class (or both).

    At any rate, my point is that the schools shouldn't engage in advocacy. They should present the facts and tell the students when things are disputed and why they're disputed.

  25. schools should teach neither on Kansas Board of Ed. Adopts Intelligent Design · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In my humble opinion, schools should teach neither "intelligent design" nor evolution. Instead, what they should teach is that:

    1. It's an age-old question where humans and other living things came from.
    2. Science provides (basically) one answer.
    3. Certain religions provide other answers.
    4. While many people think the religious and scientific answers are compatible, many do not.
    5. This is a controversial subject, and many who take one side look down on those who take the other side.
    6. That different groups believe very different things even though they have roughly the same information available to them illustrates that they take very different approaches to determining what is true. Some people take it as axiomatic that the world operates according to laws, that we can discover explanations for what we see, and that nothing beyond the observable reality exists. Other people take it as axiomatic that something does exist beyond objectively observable reality and that certain information can only be gained by revelation from outside our observable reality.

    Of course, the schools should also go over the mechanics of evolution.

    My point is that schools should not present any point of view on a controversial subject like this as truth. They should present facts, and it is a fact that some people believe evolution is the explanation of the origin of life, so it is fair to teach that and to explain what evolution is. It's also a fact that a lot of people don't believe in evolution, so they should present that fact as well.

    In other words, when it comes to the veracity of evolution and other hotly-disputed topics, schools should be descriptive rather than prescriptive. Teaching, for example, that evolution is a fact and that the fact of evolution means there is no need to believe in God would be improper, because you are telling the students what to believe. And so would teaching evolution in a way that tacitly implies that there is no God. And, so would teaching evolution in a way that tacitly implies that it's inferior to intelligent design. Schools should be telling students what they could believe, not what they should believe.

    Now, having said all that, if the Kansas government really did define science, then they are going way off course, because they are not teaching facts to the students. They are lying to the students about what science is, which is dumb.