"Tito, despite being a dictator, did much good for his people and was respected"
There's more similarity than you realize. Tito was also fond of slaughtering large numbers of people (hundreds of thousands) for being of the wrong ethnicity or for some minor reason of non-conformity. Sure, Saddam had many fans too, but like with Saddam, it was hard to find anyone under his rule who did not have a family member or friend killed by one of Tito's purges. And then there was his habit of mass "deportations" between the ethnic sections of the country. Contrast him with Saddam? Not nearly as easy as you think.
Back in the 1980s, the term "PC" was hardly used at all until a little ways into the decade when IBM made the first PC. The other models were just called computers, home computers, or microcomputers. Some companies made both non-PCs and PCs. Google for "atari PC" to see Atari's lesser-known PC offerings.
"And, is this a toMAYto toMAHto thing you're doing with the PC definition here?"
More like tomatoes vs bananas. If you have bought some software back in 1987 that said "PC Compatible" and tried to run it on your 1980s Mac (any model) you would have had trouble (unless you used special software to gain PC compatibility).
PC = a computer standard started by IBM around 1982. The computers that weren't PC's (and there were a lot) were called computers, or microcomputers. You might want to check the magazines and catalogs of the time, such as Mac Mall and PC Mall, Mac World, PC World, etc. They knew the difference, even if you do not. Apple never made a PC.
"They were called the Apple I, Apple II, Apple III, Lisa and the Macintosh."
"During the 80s, Apple inundated the public schools with cheap computers"
Were they that cheap to schools? Out on the street, Apple's cost from 2 to 4 times as much as similar competing machines (and this was both in the pre-PC era of the early 1980s and the PC era of the late 1980s)
"...impressionable children use to the idea of using Apple PCs"
Apple didn't make PCs during the 1980s, although their recent offerings might count as such.
"You mean the likes of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams and other American revolutionaries, also once called insurgents by the British?"
There's no comparison between these men, and the ones in Iraq who are fighting to bring about a horrific totalitarian theocracy.
Oh. I agree with you on that one. Except for the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, which was never justified. Cyprus never invaded or threatened Turkey. This is entirely unjustifiable.
" If the GOP cared about the future, they'd raise taxes and pay down the national debt."
You must truly be a devil's advocate. The tax-rate cuts have already resulted in record-high IRS revenue. Increasing tax rates would only clobber the economy and result in much lower revenue. If you want to reduce the national debt, then get Bush and Congress to stop spending like drunken sailors.
Hmmm. The first one is building nuclear bombs and is frequently calling for the extermination of a nation of 5.5 million people (and proclaims its willingness to help this holy cause of genocide in any way it can). That's hardly like a monster under the bed.... unless the monster has a fully-loaded AK-47.
That was a pretty good post until you got to the part about dismissing those who do not share your opinion as "brainwashed". Would it surprise you to know that these people sometimes express the same opinion of your side? It is just a variation of the week argument tactic of saying "You are an idiot because you don't share my opinions".
The only "clue" there is that a far fringe opinion site does not like it that nobody on the commission shares their far-fringe opinion. That's hardly news. There are similar opinions from the other fringe side.
That's a good thing, then. The last thing we need is for the government to take over and destroy health care. Health care is just to important to "socialize". Spend the money to reduce the debt, fix broken roads, or other good things. But don't spent it on an ill-conceived program for government to run (and ruin) something it has no business controlling.
"If I had to chose between spending a trillion dollars on Americans or a trillion dollars on Iraqies"
Word that way, I'd not find the choice as easy. Americans are not inherently better than Iraqis!
"You Crusaders, after a thoustand years, you stil same shit."
The idea of forced Turkish rule outside of Turkey is just as shitty as what the Crusaders did. Sure, the Crusaders had no business in the Palestine area and other such places. But neither did the Turks.
"We (Turks) rule this area more than 400 years without any problem"
Only if you consider the idea of a large number of nations being ruled by an oppressive foreign empire to be not a problem at all. Why don't we ask some of these non-Turks about it? Starting with the Greeks?
"Dude, you are aware the Brits drew the lines arbitrarily, ignoring ethnic and cultural lines in the first place right? Which, in the long run, CAUSED the Iraq region to get screwed up in the first place..."
When wasn't it? The Persians, the Romans, Alexander the Great, the Arabian Empire, the Ottomans.... whose erasing and/or redrawing of lines ever made any sense there?
"So, its OK to read WaPo bias, but not NewsBusters bias?"
Depends on what you are looking for. If you want to know what someone thinks about issues, read Wapo. If you want to know what someone thinks about what someone thinks about issues, read Newsbusters. If you want to know what someone thinks about what someone thinks about what someone thinks about the issues, read pages such as this one in which the self-appointed watchdogs chew on each other. Eventually you realize that there isn't anything about actual issues there.
Slashdot Mirror
"Tito, despite being a dictator, did much good for his people and was respected"
There's more similarity than you realize. Tito was also fond of slaughtering large numbers of people (hundreds of thousands) for being of the wrong ethnicity or for some minor reason of non-conformity. Sure, Saddam had many fans too, but like with Saddam, it was hard to find anyone under his rule who did not have a family member or friend killed by one of Tito's purges. And then there was his habit of mass "deportations" between the ethnic sections of the country. Contrast him with Saddam? Not nearly as easy as you think.
I don't have a lot of criticism of post-Attaturk Turkey.
However, the GP types a little too much like Borat.
"I would hope that if Turkey were ever attacked, that the US would come to Turkey's aid."
Doesn't NATO require this regardless?
Things would probably be a lot simpler if the US did what many falsely claim it always does: install a puppet.
Back in the 1980s, the term "PC" was hardly used at all until a little ways into the decade when IBM made the first PC. The other models were just called computers, home computers, or microcomputers. Some companies made both non-PCs and PCs. Google for "atari PC" to see Atari's lesser-known PC offerings.
"And, is this a toMAYto toMAHto thing you're doing with the PC definition here?"
More like tomatoes vs bananas. If you have bought some software back in 1987 that said "PC Compatible" and tried to run it on your 1980s Mac (any model) you would have had trouble (unless you used special software to gain PC compatibility).
PC = a computer standard started by IBM around 1982. The computers that weren't PC's (and there were a lot) were called computers, or microcomputers. You might want to check the magazines and catalogs of the time, such as Mac Mall and PC Mall, Mac World, PC World, etc. They knew the difference, even if you do not. Apple never made a PC.
"They were called the Apple I, Apple II, Apple III, Lisa and the Macintosh."
The Apple I was never an 80s computer.
"During the 80s, Apple inundated the public schools with cheap computers"
Were they that cheap to schools? Out on the street, Apple's cost from 2 to 4 times as much as similar competing machines (and this was both in the pre-PC era of the early 1980s and the PC era of the late 1980s)
"...impressionable children use to the idea of using Apple PCs"
Apple didn't make PCs during the 1980s, although their recent offerings might count as such.
"I am Iraqi , and I still think that something like 'low level format' is needed for Iraq to start over"
That does imply completely depopulating the country, you know.
"You mean the likes of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams and other American revolutionaries, also once called insurgents by the British?"
There's no comparison between these men, and the ones in Iraq who are fighting to bring about a horrific totalitarian theocracy.
Yet they were reported. All over the place.
Oh. I agree with you on that one. Except for the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, which was never justified. Cyprus never invaded or threatened Turkey. This is entirely unjustifiable.
"One US Liter."
I'll bet you one American euro that there isn't such a volume measurement.
" If the GOP cared about the future, they'd raise taxes and pay down the national debt."
You must truly be a devil's advocate. The tax-rate cuts have already resulted in record-high IRS revenue. Increasing tax rates would only clobber the economy and result in much lower revenue. If you want to reduce the national debt, then get Bush and Congress to stop spending like drunken sailors.
"bogeymen of Iran and Syria?"
Hmmm. The first one is building nuclear bombs and is frequently calling for the extermination of a nation of 5.5 million people (and proclaims its willingness to help this holy cause of genocide in any way it can). That's hardly like a monster under the bed.... unless the monster has a fully-loaded AK-47.
That was a pretty good post until you got to the part about dismissing those who do not share your opinion as "brainwashed". Would it surprise you to know that these people sometimes express the same opinion of your side? It is just a variation of the week argument tactic of saying "You are an idiot because you don't share my opinions".
The only "clue" there is that a far fringe opinion site does not like it that nobody on the commission shares their far-fringe opinion. That's hardly news. There are similar opinions from the other fringe side.
What is the accepted official US Government figure on the Sudan death toll?
"We don't have money for socialized medicine"
That's a good thing, then. The last thing we need is for the government to take over and destroy health care. Health care is just to important to "socialize". Spend the money to reduce the debt, fix broken roads, or other good things. But don't spent it on an ill-conceived program for government to run (and ruin) something it has no business controlling.
"If I had to chose between spending a trillion dollars on Americans or a trillion dollars on Iraqies"
Word that way, I'd not find the choice as easy. Americans are not inherently better than Iraqis!
"You Crusaders, after a thoustand years, you stil same shit."
The idea of forced Turkish rule outside of Turkey is just as shitty as what the Crusaders did. Sure, the Crusaders had no business in the Palestine area and other such places. But neither did the Turks.
"We (Turks) rule this area more than 400 years without any problem"
Only if you consider the idea of a large number of nations being ruled by an oppressive foreign empire to be not a problem at all. Why don't we ask some of these non-Turks about it? Starting with the Greeks?
We all know it's all about oil, just like going into Europe in WW2 as all about Bavarian beer and chocolate.
"Dude, you are aware the Brits drew the lines arbitrarily, ignoring ethnic and cultural lines in the first place right? Which, in the long run, CAUSED the Iraq region to get screwed up in the first place..."
When wasn't it? The Persians, the Romans, Alexander the Great, the Arabian Empire, the Ottomans.... whose erasing and/or redrawing of lines ever made any sense there?
I meant to say that in the first place, but forgot to preview.
"So, its OK to read WaPo bias, but not NewsBusters bias?"
Depends on what you are looking for. If you want to know what someone thinks about issues, read Wapo. If you want to know what someone thinks about what someone thinks about issues, read Newsbusters. If you want to know what someone thinks about what someone thinks about what someone thinks about the issues, read pages such as this one in which the self-appointed watchdogs chew on each other. Eventually you realize that there isn't anything about actual issues there.
Ribbit.