touche. This does bring up a problem Linux has and Windows doesn't have. Most likely, when you run into a problem on Linux, you've not run across it before and so it's new and may take some time to find a solution. Once it's fixed, you're not likely to run into it again. Now, on Windows, you are very likely to run across the same problems over and over again so after a short time you feel like you're really getting to know Windows. This also makes people look like super stars and guru's when the neophytes go looking for help to fix the same stuff.
Download any Linux distribution and get thousands of dollars worth of software for free, throw a party and hand out copies so your friends get thousands of dollars worth of software too. $300 only if someone willing to pay that.
only in tiff format it's so old so if you don't have a plugin on Ubuntu, try Konqueror or Dolphin since I think it uses Imagemagick. worked for me and this looks like it covers ICE, motor, and batteries
when I was researching the Prius and it's hybrid system in the late 90s and the year 2000, it was well known by the hybrid techies that a very old patent( expired ) used the design of the power split device( planetary gears ) used by Toyota. I don't think it brought in a 2nd motor and used it as both a motor and generator as Toyota did but the basic concepts were all there in the public domain.
not to mention that the patent listed was filed in 2006. Toyota had their hybrid system running in cars in Japan as early as 1997. Those jurists much have been morons to have awarded that case against Toyota.
you've got to wait until Windows 9 since they are now on a new marketing program. You see, they can no longer produce an OS which is very much better than the last so they've started releasing really sucky ones so the _next_ one looks so much better. Windows 7 is getting reviewed as so much better than Vista and it's taboo to even consider comparing Windows 7 to Windows XP. So you'll want to skip Windows 8 and consider Windows 9. It'll be so much better than Windows 8. Promise.
hmm, the/. forum is either messed up or there's a bot posting as AC. The second I posted this was already a leaf node off of my post and already rated 5/insightful. And it's an AC.... interesting.
FIrst let them release WinFS. there's no longer the need for them to ship WinFS because that was designed when they were designing to battle Taligent( WorkplaceOS ). Since when has Microsoft implemented something innovative when there wasn't someone already shipping or close to shipping something they felt was a threat?
Notice that there's no longer the desire to discuss or implement object embedding and multi-application file storage now that OpenDOC is gone?
They are 100% reactionary and if anything, this stuff about 128bit is probably about security issues or maybe even marketing buzz more than anything right now. If it happens, it'll be a yawn since by then it'll already have been implemented in some Linux distro or not even needed outside of the mess that is the Windows OS. IMO
right, that's why Microsoft had to go out and purchase Netscape contracts ISP's had and then pay those ISP's to ship Internet Explorer and when the browser was not purposefully scattered throughout the OS's DLL's, they use threats and coercion to get hardware OEM's to load Internet Explorer instead of Netscape Navigator.
anti-trust laws are to protect businesses from monsters like Microsoft who leverage their position to block other companies from new markets.
And FYI, anti-trust laws to not apply to companies who do not have a monopoly position and therefore do not have the power to stifle competition. So any OS has the right to do what they want as long as they are doing so legally but they don't have to worry about anit-trust laws. Those laws are so competition has a level playing field and the big bad guys can't just keep playing whack-a-mole flattening every new idea and company out there.
So unless Microsoft can actually invent something and get it onto their OS first, when they go off and start throwing other things into their OS, they have to allow other companies with similar products continue to play on that platform. Microsoft hasn't really invented much of anything on Windows and instead follows what others have done and shoves that onto preloaded computers so as long as they continue this and continue their marketshare, they will continue to be held to anti-trust laws.
what did you expect? Someone talks about an agreement with Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates, or Microsoft and the similarities of deception, double-speak, blind followers, and wrong doings just pour out on the floor. El Diablo quite often gets brought up too but Goodwin's got the rule.
That was darn quick though, and could be a record for application of Goodwin's Law. What is the shortest thread length which was applicable? It took only the 4th comment in this case but this is/. and Mr ( El Diable ) Ballmer is well known for his sulfur aftershave lotion.
There should be a rule regarding discussions of Microsoft and Steve Ballmer and how long before "Monkey Boy" gets mentioned. That video and the pie'ing of Gates still crack me up.
'I think this is a trustful deal we are making. There can't be a misunderstanding because it is the final result of a long discussion between Steve Ballmer and me.'
This sentence sent the hairs on the back of my neck on edge. How many times have we seen people, companies, legal systems make agreements with Microsoft only to find out that what Microsoft decided the meaning meant was completely different from what the other parties, and common sense, believed the agreement meant? The Novell / Microsoft agreement of recent which was made public the day after the signing of the agreement. Microsoft said it was about patents and Novell said it was about interoperability. To top if off, Novell people said that the patent stuff was thrown in at the 11th hour so you know this bait and switch was planned from the start at One Microsoft Way( FYI, that's the name of the street their headquarters are on ).
Good to see others are feeling the same way about this too. This does go to show yet again that legal systems are not going to protect the public from Microsoft's attack on small startup businesses, new ideas and... wait for it.... innovation. A decade of playing cat and mouse with Microsoft? Even SCO is still around so forget about the legal systems doing a thing to change Microsoft's way of doing business.
ok, got it. I'll throw out the idea that there's any movement to price notebooks into the netbook range as a blocking technique by marketing. It's been about 6 years since I've bought a laptop since Linux runs so well at 4GHz and 1.5GB of memory.
The sweet spot for the Netbook is, and always will be, the package of sub-$300, long battery life, small form factor, and sufficient performance. Linux helps in many ways and so does the SDD. What you're likely to fine now in the sub-$300 price are old models discounted yet still running Windows and probably with an HDD instead of SDD.
I am hopeful that the ARM platform has an effect on this and brings a valuable product lineup to the Netbook market. But, if they ship lackluster systems based on ARM11 and not the Cortex design, then it's going to be like the PowerPC days. Most had no problem going with PentiumPro based systems when the PowerPC delayed for 3 years and let Intel equal the PPC on performance and keep x86 compatibility. Today, with Linux, x86 compatibility isn't as big a deal in this space as long as the public gets it that Windows on the ARM Netbook is a very limited use device and Linux on the ARM Netbook is far from limited.
$450? but netbooks started out at $250 and all that about Netbooks serving another purpose can be said about tablets too. IMO, the main reason why Netbooks got a huge upshot in 2007 and into 2008 was because of the price being below $300. Like the tablets, the sector can not move out of niche if it's just a slightly cheaper, smaller, little laptop.
It'll all change when ARM Cortex based Netbooks hit the market at prices under $300. If x86 based Netbooks want into that market, licenses for Windows at ~$50-$75 are not going to cut it and the batteries are not going to cut it either. Not at that price without marketing subsidizing like the original Windows Netbooks by Microsoft. IMO
Windows Mobile has become a Terry Schaivo. The only reason it's not dead is because Microsoft refuses to pull the plug on the poor thing.
good one and true. They have lost somewhere over $15 billion( with a "B" ) on the WindowsCE productline over the 15+ years it's been on the market. A whole lot of that money goes into marketing deals( ie kickbacks ) so vendors install it and to things like paying off vendors to only show Microsoft products at shows like that one early this year where nobody would talk about their Android phones, only Windows Mobile.
the amount of money made annually off just fixing Windows is more than many countries probably produce in a year. There's probably quite a few who don't like Macs, or Linux for that matter, because it'll force them to not only learn something new but also for fear it'll reduce their income if it does run better, safer, longer. The 'if' is because many don't even want to try the other stuff.
The one thing which keeps Mac PCs going is that Microsoft Office runs on it. If and when they pull the plug on that, Mac PCs get hit hard.
there was alot of concern over the NetPC market cannibalizing the PC market so I wouldn't doubt that the proprietary BIOS fixes were to prevent the NetPC from being used as a PC. Like the Netbook market, Intel didn't want the NetPC market to exist but came in because the other processor vendors were getting picked up for the sector. Today, Intel has to used very expensive manufacturing processes to produce a competitive CPU and in a way, they are lucky the economy is down or they'd be losing alot more. I've heard they are moving the netbook CPUs to a 22 or 24nm process quicker then they'd originally planned.
If Microsoft gets it's way and the Netbook gets marketed and accepted as a low power, low end laptop, Intel will be quite happy because they can eventually kill off the market or keep it niche at the very least. Make them think it's a Geo Metro and it's not something many will want to be seen with. This is because Intel has to use expensive silicon process space to be competitive(ARM, VIA, AMD, etc are threats here) and Microsoft can't have the hardware priced below $300 or Windows licensing takes a big hit as we saw with their $5-$15 licensing for Windows XP on Netbooks. Steve B already said that won't happen again.
Yet another battle between a new idea and industry giants wanting to prevent change to protect their existing position. ARM throws a wrench in this and the fact that the iPhone is a good example of a non-Microsoft Windows device being usable works against the 'it's not Windows so it can't be good' mentality. Google Android is already bashing Windows Mobile and it's being presented as being Linux driven so that too hurts the 'not Windows, can't work' mentality. An interesting dilemma for Microsoft and Intel this round.
come on, somebody mod this as funny. Microsoft is so good at UI design, use their next great thing to tell what was screwed up on their last great thing.
A more realistic answer might have been to look at a Mac or even look at a Linux Gnome or KDE desktop to see where Microsoft screwed up with Vista.
But to say they should look at Windows 7, which isn't even shipping, is pretty funny and also shows that Microsoft is spending good chunks of money on PR.
sounds like the majority of Vista users were a combination of consumers stuck getting Vista on new computers and business and dev users who were told they needed to run Vista because it was the future. Along comes the next "future" as dictated by Microsoft and the consumers are still clueless because they're still getting Vista pre-loaded. But, business and dev types know that Vista is a deadend and Windows 7 is the new Microsoft future of the day. They have the background to wipe Vista for Windows 7 and also have access to Windows 7 so it stands to reason that any change in Vista market share has to revolve around those somewhat clue-full business and dev users along with those pseudo-geeks who are Microsoft lemmings and have also grabbed Microsoft's free Windows 7 downloads and are running it.
It's also saying something about how slow the retail computer industry is when they can't be pushing out more Vista preloaded laptop and PCs to overcome this side market replacing Vista with Windows 7 on their own. Sure looks like a sign that Microsoft's next quarter is also going to be a bad one. IMO.
yes, using the "Start" button to shut down was brilliant and I love the power button symbol on Vista and how when you click it, it doesn't power down but logs you out. It's also brilliant to place icons on the desktop or in the taskbar menu system so that they can't be removed like other icons around them. Brilliant UI designs they are not and new/naive users are confused by these kinds of inconsistencies. I've seen it first hand helping a few good friends with their screwed up Windows based computers.
one problem, that 450$CAD is huge compared to a netbook, heavy compared to a netbook, and probably runs 1/2 as long on batteries as a netbook.
But I do agree that when the "netbooks" start showing up at prices over $400 then there are other considerations to make besides price.
BTW, does anyone remember that netPC of the 90s? The idea there was a cheap $300 or less computer which leveraged the network for almost everything. It was supposed to be like a thin client but also with limited local processing power. That sector was gutted into oblivion by the industry quickly dropping the price of a full blown( sort of ) PC down to $300. And if you don't know, Microsoft has spent millions making sure Linux stayed off the netbooks and wants to now collect alot more for putting Windows 7 on them and so they've been causing the hardware on netbooks to rise and with it the prices. And now we are seeing many low cost full size laptops priced right around the netbook range of $400-$500. If this keeps up, the netbook segment is dead. But, there are supposed to be a dozen or so ARM based netbooks hitting the market this fall and in the sub $300 range so it should get interesting. Be prepared for a ton of Microsoft backed press reports and articles dismissing the ARM netbooks because they don't run Windows. You'll have to forget that the iPhone has been a success without Windows and a few other devices but they won't mention that.
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in hindsight, firing the person(s) doing backups was probably not a good move. ;-)
LoB
touche. This does bring up a problem Linux has and Windows doesn't have. Most likely, when you run into a problem on Linux, you've not run across it before and so it's new and may take some time to find a solution. Once it's fixed, you're not likely to run into it again. Now, on Windows, you are very likely to run across the same problems over and over again so after a short time you feel like you're really getting to know Windows. This also makes people look like super stars and guru's when the neophytes go looking for help to fix the same stuff.
LoB
almost everyone I know has a game console and having never heard of something doesn't mean a thing but maybe how naive one is.
FYI, marketing does not make something good, only familiar.
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Download any Linux distribution and get thousands of dollars worth of software for free, throw a party and hand out copies so your friends get thousands of dollars worth of software too. $300 only if someone willing to pay that.
LoB
try 1921 and patent 1558806
only in tiff format it's so old so if you don't have a plugin on Ubuntu, try Konqueror or Dolphin since I think it uses Imagemagick. worked for me and this looks like it covers ICE, motor, and batteries
LoB
look up US patent number 1558806 dated 1921
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when I was researching the Prius and it's hybrid system in the late 90s and the year 2000, it was well known by the hybrid techies that a very old patent( expired ) used the design of the power split device( planetary gears ) used by Toyota. I don't think it brought in a 2nd motor and used it as both a motor and generator as Toyota did but the basic concepts were all there in the public domain.
not to mention that the patent listed was filed in 2006. Toyota had their hybrid system running in cars in Japan as early as 1997. Those jurists much have been morons to have awarded that case against Toyota.
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You just eliminated 90% of the computer using population and 100% of the people teaching computers in K-12 schools.
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So Maxwell Smart does exist.
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you've got to wait until Windows 9 since they are now on a new marketing program. You see, they can no longer produce an OS which is very much better than the last so they've started releasing really sucky ones so the _next_ one looks so much better. Windows 7 is getting reviewed as so much better than Vista and it's taboo to even consider comparing Windows 7 to Windows XP. So you'll want to skip Windows 8 and consider Windows 9. It'll be so much better than Windows 8. Promise.
LoB
hmm, the /. forum is either messed up or there's a bot posting as AC. The second I posted this was already a leaf node off of my post and already rated 5/insightful. And it's an AC.... interesting.
LoB
FIrst let them release WinFS.
there's no longer the need for them to ship WinFS because that was designed when they were designing to battle Taligent( WorkplaceOS ). Since when has Microsoft implemented something innovative when there wasn't someone already shipping or close to shipping something they felt was a threat?
Notice that there's no longer the desire to discuss or implement object embedding and multi-application file storage now that OpenDOC is gone?
They are 100% reactionary and if anything, this stuff about 128bit is probably about security issues or maybe even marketing buzz more than anything right now. If it happens, it'll be a yawn since by then it'll already have been implemented in some Linux distro or not even needed outside of the mess that is the Windows OS. IMO
LoB
right, that's why Microsoft had to go out and purchase Netscape contracts ISP's had and then pay those ISP's to ship Internet Explorer and when the browser was not purposefully scattered throughout the OS's DLL's, they use threats and coercion to get hardware OEM's to load Internet Explorer instead of Netscape Navigator.
anti-trust laws are to protect businesses from monsters like Microsoft who leverage their position to block other companies from new markets.
And FYI, anti-trust laws to not apply to companies who do not have a monopoly position and therefore do not have the power to stifle competition. So any OS has the right to do what they want as long as they are doing so legally but they don't have to worry about anit-trust laws. Those laws are so competition has a level playing field and the big bad guys can't just keep playing whack-a-mole flattening every new idea and company out there.
So unless Microsoft can actually invent something and get it onto their OS first, when they go off and start throwing other things into their OS, they have to allow other companies with similar products continue to play on that platform. Microsoft hasn't really invented much of anything on Windows and instead follows what others have done and shoves that onto preloaded computers so as long as they continue this and continue their marketshare, they will continue to be held to anti-trust laws.
LoB
what did you expect? Someone talks about an agreement with Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates, or Microsoft and the similarities of deception, double-speak, blind followers, and wrong doings just pour out on the floor. El Diablo quite often gets brought up too but Goodwin's got the rule.
/. and Mr ( El Diable ) Ballmer is well known for his sulfur aftershave lotion.
That was darn quick though, and could be a record for application of Goodwin's Law. What is the shortest thread length which was applicable? It took only the 4th comment in this case but this is
There should be a rule regarding discussions of Microsoft and Steve Ballmer and how long before "Monkey Boy" gets mentioned. That video and the pie'ing of Gates still crack me up.
LoB
This sentence sent the hairs on the back of my neck on edge. How many times have we seen people, companies, legal systems make agreements with Microsoft only to find out that what Microsoft decided the meaning meant was completely different from what the other parties, and common sense, believed the agreement meant? The Novell / Microsoft agreement of recent which was made public the day after the signing of the agreement. Microsoft said it was about patents and Novell said it was about interoperability. To top if off, Novell people said that the patent stuff was thrown in at the 11th hour so you know this bait and switch was planned from the start at One Microsoft Way( FYI, that's the name of the street their headquarters are on ).
Good to see others are feeling the same way about this too. This does go to show yet again that legal systems are not going to protect the public from Microsoft's attack on small startup businesses, new ideas and... wait for it.... innovation. A decade of playing cat and mouse with Microsoft? Even SCO is still around so forget about the legal systems doing a thing to change Microsoft's way of doing business.
LoB
ok, got it. I'll throw out the idea that there's any movement to price notebooks into the netbook range as a blocking technique by marketing. It's been about 6 years since I've bought a laptop since Linux runs so well at 4GHz and 1.5GB of memory.
The sweet spot for the Netbook is, and always will be, the package of sub-$300, long battery life, small form factor, and sufficient performance. Linux helps in many ways and so does the SDD. What you're likely to fine now in the sub-$300 price are old models discounted yet still running Windows and probably with an HDD instead of SDD.
I am hopeful that the ARM platform has an effect on this and brings a valuable product lineup to the Netbook market. But, if they ship lackluster systems based on ARM11 and not the Cortex design, then it's going to be like the PowerPC days. Most had no problem going with PentiumPro based systems when the PowerPC delayed for 3 years and let Intel equal the PPC on performance and keep x86 compatibility. Today, with Linux, x86 compatibility isn't as big a deal in this space as long as the public gets it that Windows on the ARM Netbook is a very limited use device and Linux on the ARM Netbook is far from limited.
LoB
$450? but netbooks started out at $250 and all that about Netbooks serving another purpose can be said about tablets too. IMO, the main reason why Netbooks got a huge upshot in 2007 and into 2008 was because of the price being below $300. Like the tablets, the sector can not move out of niche if it's just a slightly cheaper, smaller, little laptop.
It'll all change when ARM Cortex based Netbooks hit the market at prices under $300. If x86 based Netbooks want into that market, licenses for Windows at ~$50-$75 are not going to cut it and the batteries are not going to cut it either. Not at that price without marketing subsidizing like the original Windows Netbooks by Microsoft. IMO
LoB
good one and true. They have lost somewhere over $15 billion( with a "B" ) on the WindowsCE productline over the 15+ years it's been on the market. A whole lot of that money goes into marketing deals( ie kickbacks ) so vendors install it and to things like paying off vendors to only show Microsoft products at shows like that one early this year where nobody would talk about their Android phones, only Windows Mobile.
The "Terry Schaivo" of mobile platforms indeed.
LoB
the amount of money made annually off just fixing Windows is more than many countries probably produce in a year. There's probably quite a few who don't like Macs, or Linux for that matter, because it'll force them to not only learn something new but also for fear it'll reduce their income if it does run better, safer, longer. The 'if' is because many don't even want to try the other stuff.
The one thing which keeps Mac PCs going is that Microsoft Office runs on it. If and when they pull the plug on that, Mac PCs get hit hard.
LoB
there was alot of concern over the NetPC market cannibalizing the PC market so I wouldn't doubt that the proprietary BIOS fixes were to prevent the NetPC from being used as a PC. Like the Netbook market, Intel didn't want the NetPC market to exist but came in because the other processor vendors were getting picked up for the sector. Today, Intel has to used very expensive manufacturing processes to produce a competitive CPU and in a way, they are lucky the economy is down or they'd be losing alot more. I've heard they are moving the netbook CPUs to a 22 or 24nm process quicker then they'd originally planned.
If Microsoft gets it's way and the Netbook gets marketed and accepted as a low power, low end laptop, Intel will be quite happy because they can eventually kill off the market or keep it niche at the very least. Make them think it's a Geo Metro and it's not something many will want to be seen with. This is because Intel has to use expensive silicon process space to be competitive(ARM, VIA, AMD, etc are threats here) and Microsoft can't have the hardware priced below $300 or Windows licensing takes a big hit as we saw with their $5-$15 licensing for Windows XP on Netbooks. Steve B already said that won't happen again.
Yet another battle between a new idea and industry giants wanting to prevent change to protect their existing position. ARM throws a wrench in this and the fact that the iPhone is a good example of a non-Microsoft Windows device being usable works against the 'it's not Windows so it can't be good' mentality. Google Android is already bashing Windows Mobile and it's being presented as being Linux driven so that too hurts the 'not Windows, can't work' mentality. An interesting dilemma for Microsoft and Intel this round.
LoB
awesome, that means they'll be changing the name again and telling everyone it's better, it's Windows.
I always believe that since Microsoft says it so therefore it has to be true.
LoB
come on, somebody mod this as funny. Microsoft is so good at UI design, use their next great thing to tell what was screwed up on their last great thing.
A more realistic answer might have been to look at a Mac or even look at a Linux Gnome or KDE desktop to see where Microsoft screwed up with Vista.
But to say they should look at Windows 7, which isn't even shipping, is pretty funny and also shows that Microsoft is spending good chunks of money on PR.
LoB
sounds like the majority of Vista users were a combination of consumers stuck getting Vista on new computers and business and dev users who were told they needed to run Vista because it was the future. Along comes the next "future" as dictated by Microsoft and the consumers are still clueless because they're still getting Vista pre-loaded. But, business and dev types know that Vista is a deadend and Windows 7 is the new Microsoft future of the day. They have the background to wipe Vista for Windows 7 and also have access to Windows 7 so it stands to reason that any change in Vista market share has to revolve around those somewhat clue-full business and dev users along with those pseudo-geeks who are Microsoft lemmings and have also grabbed Microsoft's free Windows 7 downloads and are running it.
It's also saying something about how slow the retail computer industry is when they can't be pushing out more Vista preloaded laptop and PCs to overcome this side market replacing Vista with Windows 7 on their own. Sure looks like a sign that Microsoft's next quarter is also going to be a bad one. IMO.
LoB
yes, using the "Start" button to shut down was brilliant and I love the power button symbol on Vista and how when you click it, it doesn't power down but logs you out. It's also brilliant to place icons on the desktop or in the taskbar menu system so that they can't be removed like other icons around them. Brilliant UI designs they are not and new/naive users are confused by these kinds of inconsistencies. I've seen it first hand helping a few good friends with their screwed up Windows based computers.
LoB
one problem, that 450$CAD is huge compared to a netbook, heavy compared to a netbook, and probably runs 1/2 as long on batteries as a netbook.
But I do agree that when the "netbooks" start showing up at prices over $400 then there are other considerations to make besides price.
BTW, does anyone remember that netPC of the 90s? The idea there was a cheap $300 or less computer which leveraged the network for almost everything. It was supposed to be like a thin client but also with limited local processing power. That sector was gutted into oblivion by the industry quickly dropping the price of a full blown( sort of ) PC down to $300. And if you don't know, Microsoft has spent millions making sure Linux stayed off the netbooks and wants to now collect alot more for putting Windows 7 on them and so they've been causing the hardware on netbooks to rise and with it the prices. And now we are seeing many low cost full size laptops priced right around the netbook range of $400-$500. If this keeps up, the netbook segment is dead. But, there are supposed to be a dozen or so ARM based netbooks hitting the market this fall and in the sub $300 range so it should get interesting. Be prepared for a ton of Microsoft backed press reports and articles dismissing the ARM netbooks because they don't run Windows. You'll have to forget that the iPhone has been a success without Windows and a few other devices but they won't mention that.
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