I don't give nice answers to rude accusations made by rude people like you. You should be grateful that I gave you an actual solution to your problem anyway, even though you didn't deserve it. Next time simply ask nicely on http://forum.kde.org/ and you'll get a nice answer.
Well, I've had no luck in getting anything like that. So I just tried that (though I'm sure I tried it before), and all that does is completely get rid of the dialog all-together.
Duh, you obviously have to log off and on again to fully apply that setting.
It's just irritating when every new release seems to break the things that worked so well in the previous release
The only broken thing is your brain. If you'd ever executed Dolphin in another DE, you'd know that the progress window in there and never was gone. So your tiny, broken brain might be irritated by the fact that at one point KDE started to utilize dbus to allow for a wide range of progress indicators, including the traditional clunky window, the smooth default Plasma version, or even 3rd party implementations like http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/SmartNotify+(unobtrusive+notifications)?content=133472
Oh btw: I would've used another tone but you decided to always blame someone else first ("they" do dumb things, "they" break stuff,...) when the only one to blame is yourself. Next time simply ask on http://forum.kde.org/ first before blaming someone just because you can't find a setting.
I believe that developers of modern DEs don't spend a lot of time optimising for memory-starved situations.
At least in the case of KDE that's absolutely wrong. Since quite some time it is possible to compile KDE software in 'mobile' mode which strips dependencies. This document shows the progress made a full year ago: http://community.kde.org/KDE_Mobile/PlatformModifications Since then even more such work has happened and is still happening in preparation for KDE Frameworks 5 coming up in summer 2012. Same for Qt itself which will be even more modular with Qt5 on which KF5 will be based.
That's an ignorant elitist point of view. I'm typing on a laptop with 1GB of ram and 1.8GHz processor. KDE is too bloated for this machine.
Weird that Plasma Desktop manages to run just fine on my second PC with 768MB RAM... Anyhow... nobody at KDE forces you to use the setup for modern PCs. There's also a CMake option to compile the packages for mobile systems which strips many dependencies at the cost of some features (eg. no KHTML is included then). The KDE project itself only releases source packages. So if you obtain your packages from the distributor's repositories and he does not offer the 'mobile' packages, it's the distributor's fault, not KDE's.
There is if it just does dumb stuff. (...) the latest versions do very annoying things. One in particular is that when copying large files (or many files) you no longer get a little window that shows the progress and gives you a "cancel" button. Instead the information is stuck in some little notification icon
So you complain against KDE and call it dumb because you are too dumb to turn that feature off? Has it never occurred to you to simply right-click the notification icon, go to configure, and then untick the checkbox for progress jobs?
I have 4GB of RAM and 512MB of RAM on an Nvidia 9800GT. I recently switched to LXDE simply because the entire KDE desktop lags graphically.
Bullshit. My system is way less powerful (NVidia 9200M for starters) and is runs smooth like butter. So when your configuration is slow, it's either your fault or your distributor messed something up. I use openSUSE 12.1 without problems.
XFCE doesn't NEED to move fast. That's the whole idea: they don't keep changing it around and adding bells and whistles every six months. If you want shiny new features, it's not for you.
It's not about shiny features. It's about basics like bugfix releases which Xfce doesn't do!
Xfce is one of the slowest projects of FOSS. They manage only to get a tiny release out every two years. So how can such a slow project be seriously suggested as "good replacement"? Xfce doesn't even have a GTK3 version which means that Xfce users are stuck with an unmaintained, possibly even buggy GTK version. With its current pace, the next Xfce version will be released in 2013! Until then GNOME 3.8 should be just around the corner and the GNOME Shell extension ecosystem will have grown and matured.
Well, I have to correct myself and agree with you to a degree: Comparisons to KDE 4.0 and 4.1 were not entirely fair because the KDE project actually released 3.5.9 after 4.0 and 3.5.10 after 4.1 which means that KDE kept the stable branch alive until 4.2 was ready.
However, there are no new GNOME 2.x releases. So yes, comparisons to GNOME 3.x are fair because the GNOME project EOLed 2.x with the release of 3.0.
Of course it's fair. They compared the latest release versions, just as when everybody pissed at KDE 4.0 and praised GNOME 2.x the latest release versions were compared.
KDE still feels overly complicated whenever I go to configure things.
If there is anything that's hard to configure, it's GNOME. GNOME has lots of options -- most of them hidden somewhere in GConf. It's hard to get more complicated than that.;-)
As for "KDE"... you're both wrong and right. What you described is the KDE3 attitude. In the 4.x series many config options have been cleaned up. See Dophin (compared to Konqueror 3.x), Gwenview, or Okular. In fact, I'd argue that new applications and components written for the 4.x series are among the most clean and usable applications available for Linux -- including Plasma Desktop itself. However, there are a few black sheep: Usually applications simply ported over from 3.x like KMail whose GUI barely changed over the years because the developers were busy with back-end renovation. That said, that article is about the desktop environments themselves, not applications usually used together with them.
All modern distros install KDE or Gnome in such a way that there are multiple desktops by default. Even XFCE4 installs that way. Complete with a pager at the bottom.
You gave no evidence at all that it's actually used. And what's more important: You gave no evidence at all that the "vast majority" of users was "alienated" by Plasma activities. By your logic -- something is preinstalled and therefore used by most -- Plasma activities have to be used now. As you did not give any evidence at all for any alienation, I could just as well claim that an imaginary "vast majority of users" welcomes activities as improvements over regular virtual desktops and haters are just a vocal minority. I could even give the (made up) evidence that since GNOME adopted it after research conducted by Red Hat that activities are well received and therefore GNOME Shell adopted them.
You are making false arguments. You conclude from one thing a completely unrelated result just because you like the result you conclude. The scientific method does not work this way.
Now it is up to you to provide evidence that the majority of users disable this feature.
No, it's not because I never made any claim about actual usage numbers. You did and it's still up to you to prove it. Either you do it or you leave.
search for Mate. some dude forked gnome2 and apparently trying to maintain it.
By "maintain" he means to make sure it can be installed in parallel to GNOME 3. There are no plans to write bugfixes or enhance Mate in any other way than to resolve installation conflicts.
Is it -has- taken away my productivity. I have used GNOME 2.x and Compiz ever since there was such a matchup available, and it has come to be my 'perfect' desktop. For me, this involves being able to group and switch between windows ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_uAA9OK-jQ ) and window opacity based on mouse position ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg1qbw8pML4 ) . Unity, and GNOME 3 both cannot handle either of these
Strange, considering that Unity is built on top of Compiz. Seems you simply didn't install/activate the needed plugins. GNOME 3 also works just fine with Compiz. Only GNOME Shell requires Mutter but GNOME Panel (aka Fallback Mode) does not.
Since every distro installs that way by default, I believe no evidence is needed.
You must run windows all day I'm guessing.....
In both cases your belief is wrong. I do not run Windows at all and evidence is needed. So provide evidence that multiple desktops are actually used by the "vast majority" and that they were in fact "alienated" by Plasma Desktop because of this. 'sed' is installed by default on all distributions I'm aware, yet I would not conclude that the "vast majority" of users actually uses 'sed'. Just because something is there, it is not necessarily actually used. Once you base an argument on a claim, you do in fact have to provide evidence for said claim.
You couldn't avoid them if you want multiple desktops with different wall paper.
You were writing about the "vast majority" of users, not some niche. (I doubt that you can provide hard evidence that a "vast majority" of users uses multiple desktops.)
So, when can I expect to see multiple monitors on my tablet?
As soon as you hook up a monitor to the Mini HDMI port many tablets have. Either that or you really want a workstation to do -- well -- work. On computers for personal use (hence "personal computer") multiple monitors are actually an oddity.
Now that they will have statistics to show which extensions are most used (i.e. what users are missing the most). Will GNOME undo the mess?
Why do you think that most users would a traditional GUI back that GNOME can "undo" to? Fedora hasn't suffered at all since it ships GNOME 3.x as default.
KDE Activities: a stunning failure rammed thru by a pigheaded minority to meet a need that did not exist,replacing perfectly good alternatives, and in the process, alienated the vast majority of the KDE user base
WTF?!? Activities in Plasma Desktop were never ever forced on anyone. Everybody who doesn't want them simply doesn't use them.
Gnome 3 has nasty visual artifacts on Ubuntu 11.10 with my notebook's ATI chip.
I appreciate all Shuttleworth has done for the Linux community, but he's really got to take quality more seriously if he wants to win me back to Ubuntu.
Shuttleworth would say that because Canonical does not contribute to driver development, Canonical is not guilty of lacking quality there. Critics would say that Canonical should help driver development for a change.
And that is completelly understandable. They need to abandon nerds and prepare for a broad audience because next year is, definitely, the year of linux on the desktop.
The desktop PC is dead. The actual trend since a few years is that the distinction between Personal Computer and Workstation matters again. In the mid to late 1990s the workstation died because PCs became powerful enough that the only differentiating factor was if Win9x ("PC") or WinNT/2k ("workstation") was installed as OS (and since XP it's all NT-based for the majority of users).
Smaller formfactors take the place as new personal computers: Mostly laptops and tablets. GNOME is making sure that its GUI is adapted to those formfactors. Desktop computers are mostly used for work these days. The demographic that requires desktop workstations is relatively small compared to the rest. The GNOME community focuses on the majority as target audience.
Xfce is great if you thought windows 95 was a little too fancy. As Torvalds said yesterday, Gnome 3 should come with gnome-tweak-tool right in settings.
Whether Tweak Tool is preinstalled or not is the distributor's decision.
You do realize it is possible to have a compositing WM in Gnome2, right?
Yes, retard. That's why I wrote "GNOME 3 using Mutter performs about the same as GNOME 2 with Mutter or Compiz." Mutter and Compiz are common composite WMs used with GNOME 2.x.
And that Gnome is not the WM, Metacity is?
Yes, retard. You were the one who tried to "rephrase" my post "in other words" and suddenly used GNOME 2 instead of the actual WM names. In my post you (!) answered to, I spoke about the performance of Mutter, KWin, and IceWM -- the first two as example for composite WMs, IceWM as example for for a really low end non-composite WM.
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I don't give nice answers to rude accusations made by rude people like you. You should be grateful that I gave you an actual solution to your problem anyway, even though you didn't deserve it.
Next time simply ask nicely on http://forum.kde.org/ and you'll get a nice answer.
Well, I've had no luck in getting anything like that. So I just tried that (though I'm sure I tried it before), and all that does is completely get rid of the dialog all-together.
Duh, you obviously have to log off and on again to fully apply that setting.
It's just irritating when every new release seems to break the things that worked so well in the previous release
The only broken thing is your brain.
If you'd ever executed Dolphin in another DE, you'd know that the progress window in there and never was gone.
So your tiny, broken brain might be irritated by the fact that at one point KDE started to utilize dbus to allow for a wide range of progress indicators, including the traditional clunky window, the smooth default Plasma version, or even 3rd party implementations like http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/SmartNotify+(unobtrusive+notifications)?content=133472
Oh btw: I would've used another tone but you decided to always blame someone else first ("they" do dumb things, "they" break stuff,...) when the only one to blame is yourself. Next time simply ask on http://forum.kde.org/ first before blaming someone just because you can't find a setting.
I believe that developers of modern DEs don't spend a lot of time optimising for memory-starved situations.
At least in the case of KDE that's absolutely wrong.
Since quite some time it is possible to compile KDE software in 'mobile' mode which strips dependencies. This document shows the progress made a full year ago: http://community.kde.org/KDE_Mobile/PlatformModifications
Since then even more such work has happened and is still happening in preparation for KDE Frameworks 5 coming up in summer 2012. Same for Qt itself which will be even more modular with Qt5 on which KF5 will be based.
That's an ignorant elitist point of view. I'm typing on a laptop with 1GB of ram and 1.8GHz processor. KDE is too bloated for this machine.
Weird that Plasma Desktop manages to run just fine on my second PC with 768MB RAM...
Anyhow... nobody at KDE forces you to use the setup for modern PCs. There's also a CMake option to compile the packages for mobile systems which strips many dependencies at the cost of some features (eg. no KHTML is included then).
The KDE project itself only releases source packages. So if you obtain your packages from the distributor's repositories and he does not offer the 'mobile' packages, it's the distributor's fault, not KDE's.
There is if it just does dumb stuff. (...) the latest versions do very annoying things. One in particular is that when copying large files (or many files) you no longer get a little window that shows the progress and gives you a "cancel" button. Instead the information is stuck in some little notification icon
So you complain against KDE and call it dumb because you are too dumb to turn that feature off? Has it never occurred to you to simply right-click the notification icon, go to configure, and then untick the checkbox for progress jobs?
I have 4GB of RAM and 512MB of RAM on an Nvidia 9800GT. I recently switched to LXDE simply because the entire KDE desktop lags graphically.
Bullshit. My system is way less powerful (NVidia 9200M for starters) and is runs smooth like butter.
So when your configuration is slow, it's either your fault or your distributor messed something up. I use openSUSE 12.1 without problems.
XFCE doesn't NEED to move fast. That's the whole idea: they don't keep changing it around and adding bells and whistles every six months. If you want shiny new features, it's not for you.
It's not about shiny features. It's about basics like bugfix releases which Xfce doesn't do!
Xfce is one of the slowest projects of FOSS. They manage only to get a tiny release out every two years. So how can such a slow project be seriously suggested as "good replacement"? Xfce doesn't even have a GTK3 version which means that Xfce users are stuck with an unmaintained, possibly even buggy GTK version.
With its current pace, the next Xfce version will be released in 2013! Until then GNOME 3.8 should be just around the corner and the GNOME Shell extension ecosystem will have grown and matured.
Well, I have to correct myself and agree with you to a degree: Comparisons to KDE 4.0 and 4.1 were not entirely fair because the KDE project actually released 3.5.9 after 4.0 and 3.5.10 after 4.1 which means that KDE kept the stable branch alive until 4.2 was ready.
However, there are no new GNOME 2.x releases. So yes, comparisons to GNOME 3.x are fair because the GNOME project EOLed 2.x with the release of 3.0.
Of course it's fair. They compared the latest release versions, just as when everybody pissed at KDE 4.0 and praised GNOME 2.x the latest release versions were compared.
KDE's Dolphin does since ages.
KDE still feels overly complicated whenever I go to configure things.
If there is anything that's hard to configure, it's GNOME. GNOME has lots of options -- most of them hidden somewhere in GConf. It's hard to get more complicated than that. ;-)
As for "KDE"... you're both wrong and right. What you described is the KDE3 attitude. In the 4.x series many config options have been cleaned up. See Dophin (compared to Konqueror 3.x), Gwenview, or Okular. In fact, I'd argue that new applications and components written for the 4.x series are among the most clean and usable applications available for Linux -- including Plasma Desktop itself.
However, there are a few black sheep: Usually applications simply ported over from 3.x like KMail whose GUI barely changed over the years because the developers were busy with back-end renovation.
That said, that article is about the desktop environments themselves, not applications usually used together with them.
I did provide evidence.
All modern distros install KDE or Gnome in such a way that there are multiple desktops by default.
Even XFCE4 installs that way.
Complete with a pager at the bottom.
You gave no evidence at all that it's actually used.
And what's more important: You gave no evidence at all that the "vast majority" of users was "alienated" by Plasma activities.
By your logic -- something is preinstalled and therefore used by most -- Plasma activities have to be used now.
As you did not give any evidence at all for any alienation, I could just as well claim that an imaginary "vast majority of users" welcomes activities as improvements over regular virtual desktops and haters are just a vocal minority. I could even give the (made up) evidence that since GNOME adopted it after research conducted by Red Hat that activities are well received and therefore GNOME Shell adopted them.
You are making false arguments. You conclude from one thing a completely unrelated result just because you like the result you conclude.
The scientific method does not work this way.
Now it is up to you to provide evidence that the majority of users disable this feature.
No, it's not because I never made any claim about actual usage numbers. You did and it's still up to you to prove it.
Either you do it or you leave.
search for Mate. some dude forked gnome2 and apparently trying to maintain it.
By "maintain" he means to make sure it can be installed in parallel to GNOME 3.
There are no plans to write bugfixes or enhance Mate in any other way than to resolve installation conflicts.
Is it -has- taken away my productivity. I have used GNOME 2.x and Compiz ever since there was such a matchup available, and it has come to be my 'perfect' desktop. For me, this involves being able to group and switch between windows ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_uAA9OK-jQ ) and window opacity based on mouse position ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg1qbw8pML4 ) . Unity, and GNOME 3 both cannot handle either of these
Strange, considering that Unity is built on top of Compiz. Seems you simply didn't install/activate the needed plugins.
GNOME 3 also works just fine with Compiz. Only GNOME Shell requires Mutter but GNOME Panel (aka Fallback Mode) does not.
Since every distro installs that way by default, I believe no evidence is needed.
You must run windows all day I'm guessing.....
In both cases your belief is wrong. I do not run Windows at all and evidence is needed.
So provide evidence that multiple desktops are actually used by the "vast majority" and that they were in fact "alienated" by Plasma Desktop because of this.
'sed' is installed by default on all distributions I'm aware, yet I would not conclude that the "vast majority" of users actually uses 'sed'. Just because something is there, it is not necessarily actually used.
Once you base an argument on a claim, you do in fact have to provide evidence for said claim.
You couldn't avoid them if you want multiple desktops with different wall paper.
You were writing about the "vast majority" of users, not some niche. (I doubt that you can provide hard evidence that a "vast majority" of users uses multiple desktops.)
The desktop PC is dead.
So, when can I expect to see multiple monitors on my tablet?
As soon as you hook up a monitor to the Mini HDMI port many tablets have.
Either that or you really want a workstation to do -- well -- work. On computers for personal use (hence "personal computer") multiple monitors are actually an oddity.
For instance: Pausanias talking about alt-right-click. I've never seen that anywhere in G3, and I've been using it basically since it came out.
He's talking about the GTK 3 port of the classic GNOME Panel (aka Fallback Mode).
Now that they will have statistics to show which extensions are most used (i.e. what users are missing the most). Will GNOME undo the mess?
Why do you think that most users would a traditional GUI back that GNOME can "undo" to?
Fedora hasn't suffered at all since it ships GNOME 3.x as default.
KDE Activities: a stunning failure rammed thru by a pigheaded minority to meet a need that did not exist,replacing perfectly good alternatives, and in the process, alienated the vast majority of the KDE user base
WTF?!? Activities in Plasma Desktop were never ever forced on anyone. Everybody who doesn't want them simply doesn't use them.
Gnome 3 has nasty visual artifacts on Ubuntu 11.10 with my notebook's ATI chip.
I appreciate all Shuttleworth has done for the Linux community, but he's really got to take quality more seriously if he wants to win me back to Ubuntu.
Shuttleworth would say that because Canonical does not contribute to driver development, Canonical is not guilty of lacking quality there.
Critics would say that Canonical should help driver development for a change.
Decide for yourself which side you're on.
And that is completelly understandable. They need to abandon nerds and prepare for a broad audience because next year is, definitely, the year of linux on the desktop.
The desktop PC is dead. The actual trend since a few years is that the distinction between Personal Computer and Workstation matters again. In the mid to late 1990s the workstation died because PCs became powerful enough that the only differentiating factor was if Win9x ("PC") or WinNT/2k ("workstation") was installed as OS (and since XP it's all NT-based for the majority of users).
Smaller formfactors take the place as new personal computers: Mostly laptops and tablets. GNOME is making sure that its GUI is adapted to those formfactors.
Desktop computers are mostly used for work these days. The demographic that requires desktop workstations is relatively small compared to the rest. The GNOME community focuses on the majority as target audience.
Xfce is great if you thought windows 95 was a little too fancy. As Torvalds said yesterday, Gnome 3 should come with gnome-tweak-tool right in settings.
Whether Tweak Tool is preinstalled or not is the distributor's decision.
You do realize it is possible to have a compositing WM in Gnome2, right?
Yes, retard. That's why I wrote "GNOME 3 using Mutter performs about the same as GNOME 2 with Mutter or Compiz." Mutter and Compiz are common composite WMs used with GNOME 2.x.
And that Gnome is not the WM, Metacity is?
Yes, retard. You were the one who tried to "rephrase" my post "in other words" and suddenly used GNOME 2 instead of the actual WM names. In my post you (!) answered to, I spoke about the performance of Mutter, KWin, and IceWM -- the first two as example for composite WMs, IceWM as example for for a really low end non-composite WM.