Don't underestimate him. He really is a smart guy and understands how little the best judge and juror understand about this stuff. I don't doubt they select venue and jurors for that lack of understanding if they can.
They seem to have done that here. They even managed to find some jurors who had never used the internet. Of course the judge recognized that the trial had been a farce and set the verdict aside.
You are reading this from "behind a router". From your point of view all of the Internet is "behind" that router. The practical limit of how many devices can be behind that router is "all of them except your PC and the router itself". The theoretical limit is as many devices as could be constructed from the available mass. That's what he meant by "limited".
Now if only we can get the judges to understand this stuff.
I'm speechless... the RIAA has the audacity to accuse a defense lawyer of inappropriate harassment because he brought legal precedents to the attention of his peers? They should be reprimanded for making such an outrageous request.
That's a pretty vague distinction Ray. Personally I hate the Web 1.0 and Web 2.0 nonsense, but I guess if it makes sense to people that is the way things will travel. Before "the web" there were places called BBSs (Bulletin Board Systems). The BBSs were actually quite like "web 2.0" and communities were born around them. Also, back in the dark ages of Web 1.0 there were heaps of communities and community sites. Linux, for a start, evolved its community during the Web 1.0 era.
I'm not deliberately trying to be critical Ray (your comments are way up in my respect-o-meter and I always value what you say). I just find this web 1.0 and web 2.0 thing difficult to grasp.
Yeah, well look... it's no big thing. I just think that some people use the phrase to differentiate the first time around, where business people were kind of trying to apply a classic top-down kind of approach, to the second time around, where the business people realized there was more of a future in just providing a playing field, and getting out of the way.
If you know anything about networking, network security and P2P, this deposition is hilarious. It's like a Monty Python skit. If you don't you can probably skip it.
Thanks to NYCL for a good read.
My pleasure. Going into it, I didn't anticipate it would be as entertaining as it turned out to be. I was really shocked at how bad this guy was. On the other hand, he's laughing all the way to the bank, with the wheelbarrows of money he's getting from peddling his "Audible Magic" software to the LAN operators he's going around threatening. He's running a protection racket. When Ohio University coughed up $60,000, plus $16,000 a year, suddenly the letters stopped. So he may not be much of a technology expert, but he's a good strong arm man.
To be fair, he did put Web 2.0 in quotes, indicating that Wendy Davis used that term as if it meant something, while NYCL knew better.
Well let's be fair to Wendy too. I know her and she is one of the smartest and most savvy people I know. I think 'Web 2.0' can have meaning. E.g.:
"Web 1.0 = the internet prior to the end of the first internet boom; dominated by large web sites and attempts to monetize content. E.g. Google, eBay, yahoo!, Amazon".
"Web 2.0 = the internet subsequent to the end of the first boom; dominated by social networking sites and encouraging people to create their own content. E.g., MySpace, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter."
Using a Facebook page, or a blog, to do some grassroots organizing and join together with a community... is more Web 2.0 than Web 1.0.
That's exactly how I found my divorce lawyer, who was a friend of my father's friend. When I needed to declare bankrupcy I went through her, and she set me up with the head of the law firm.
But as I said, you're going to have the same problem finding a good doctor or a good auto mechanic. Any profession has competents and incompetents, nice guys and jerks, honest people and crooks.
Exactly. That's why it's important to do to it through other people who know other people, etc. It's the best insurance against disaster.
The record labels, for better or worse, are the *producers* of the music
Not really. Usually the producer is some guy who's a performer himself, and who is as exploited by the record company as the artist is. The record labels in actuality 'produce' nothing but a little bit of hype and a lot of money for themselves.
the artists themselves are merely employees(read: bitches) of the record labels
Yes the artists are the bitches. Although the customers of these "Big 4" record companies might also be thought of as "bitches", since they basically eat what they are fed.
How does someone find a good lawyer, except by chance?
The only reliable way is through referrals from people you know. I.e., networking. E.g., if you need a personal injury lawyer, but the only good lawyer you know is a real estate lawyer, ask the real estate lawyer to help you find a good personal injury lawyer. If you can't do it through a good lawyer, reach out to friends, business associates, etc., whose judgment you respect.
I can attest to that, having graduated from FPLC. They had extensive externship opportunities (actually working for an entire semester in lieu of classes), clinics, competitions. They are best known as being an IP school so they are particularly well suited for this sort of work in fighting the RIAA.
1. As someone who worked in a law firm all the time I was in law school, I know from personal experience that getting the practical experience along with the law school curriculum is an incredibly valuable part of one's legal education.
2. You have good reason to be proud of your alma mater. This is really in the finest tradition of our profession.
These law schools aren't necessarily representing their own students -- more than likely, they're representing average people who don't have the means to defend themselves.
Correct. In this case, the defendant is just an average person who doesn't have the means to defend herself. (By the way, almost nobody has "the means to defend themselves" in a federal copyright infringement litigation, let alone one brought by the unscrupulous vipers the RIAA uses.)
the fact that he is proud of that marble shit just goes to show what kind of dickhead tends to become a lawyer--- or maybe, what kind of dickhead becoming a lawyer tends to turn you into.
Isn't there a third possibility? Like that some lawyers are jerks? Just like there are some jerks everywhere else in the general population?
Good law schools should really take advantage of this opportunity. I think schools could be judged by this for how up to date they are and how much they really care about their lawyers getting real experience in the classroom.
I agree, and Franklin Pierce happens to be one of those institutions that really cares about getting its students real-world, law-practice, experience.
dont these people have a site they take donations for the effort, or we just donate to eff.org ?
Yes you can! Go here to donate to the Franklin Pierce Law Center. Let them know why you're doing it, too, because you appreciate the courageous work that their law clinic is doing on behalf of Mavis Roy.
I, despite not being American (but I do live nearby), nominate Ray Beckerman [blogspot.com] (NewYorkCountryLawyer [slashdot.org]). He seems to have lots of relevant experience in this field.
Any seconds?
Thanks, but, being Jewish, I don't really like "czars".
Slashdot Mirror
what was the name of teh RIAA before? mafia?
It should be.
They're certainly running a protection racket.
NYCL, I hope you will continue to vex the RIAA.
Yeah well the truth can be vexatious to a liar.
Don't underestimate him. He really is a smart guy and understands how little the best judge and juror understand about this stuff. I don't doubt they select venue and jurors for that lack of understanding if they can.
They seem to have done that here. They even managed to find some jurors who had never used the internet. Of course the judge recognized that the trial had been a farce and set the verdict aside.
You are reading this from "behind a router". From your point of view all of the Internet is "behind" that router. The practical limit of how many devices can be behind that router is "all of them except your PC and the router itself". The theoretical limit is as many devices as could be constructed from the available mass. That's what he meant by "limited".
Now if only we can get the judges to understand this stuff.
I'm speechless... the RIAA has the audacity to accuse a defense lawyer of inappropriate harassment because he brought legal precedents to the attention of his peers? They should be reprimanded for making such an outrageous request.
Agreed. Which is why I made a Rule 11 motion for sanctions against them. It appears that they find the truth to be "vexatious", too.
That's a pretty vague distinction Ray. Personally I hate the Web 1.0 and Web 2.0 nonsense, but I guess if it makes sense to people that is the way things will travel. Before "the web" there were places called BBSs (Bulletin Board Systems). The BBSs were actually quite like "web 2.0" and communities were born around them. Also, back in the dark ages of Web 1.0 there were heaps of communities and community sites. Linux, for a start, evolved its community during the Web 1.0 era. I'm not deliberately trying to be critical Ray (your comments are way up in my respect-o-meter and I always value what you say). I just find this web 1.0 and web 2.0 thing difficult to grasp.
Yeah, well look... it's no big thing. I just think that some people use the phrase to differentiate the first time around, where business people were kind of trying to apply a classic top-down kind of approach, to the second time around, where the business people realized there was more of a future in just providing a playing field, and getting out of the way.
If you know anything about networking, network security and P2P, this deposition is hilarious. It's like a Monty Python skit. If you don't you can probably skip it. Thanks to NYCL for a good read.
My pleasure. Going into it, I didn't anticipate it would be as entertaining as it turned out to be. I was really shocked at how bad this guy was. On the other hand, he's laughing all the way to the bank, with the wheelbarrows of money he's getting from peddling his "Audible Magic" software to the LAN operators he's going around threatening. He's running a protection racket. When Ohio University coughed up $60,000, plus $16,000 a year, suddenly the letters stopped. So he may not be much of a technology expert, but he's a good strong arm man.
To be fair, he did put Web 2.0 in quotes, indicating that Wendy Davis used that term as if it meant something, while NYCL knew better.
Well let's be fair to Wendy too. I know her and she is one of the smartest and most savvy people I know. I think 'Web 2.0' can have meaning. E.g.:
"Web 1.0 = the internet prior to the end of the first internet boom; dominated by large web sites and attempts to monetize content. E.g. Google, eBay, yahoo!, Amazon".
"Web 2.0 = the internet subsequent to the end of the first boom; dominated by social networking sites and encouraging people to create their own content. E.g., MySpace, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter."
Using a Facebook page, or a blog, to do some grassroots organizing and join together with a community... is more Web 2.0 than Web 1.0.
That's exactly how I found my divorce lawyer, who was a friend of my father's friend. When I needed to declare bankrupcy I went through her, and she set me up with the head of the law firm. But as I said, you're going to have the same problem finding a good doctor or a good auto mechanic. Any profession has competents and incompetents, nice guys and jerks, honest people and crooks.
Exactly. That's why it's important to do to it through other people who know other people, etc. It's the best insurance against disaster.
You still have me listed as a "foe". Would appreciate your removing that designation. I'm very sensitive.
The record labels, for better or worse, are the *producers* of the music
Not really. Usually the producer is some guy who's a performer himself, and who is as exploited by the record company as the artist is. The record labels in actuality 'produce' nothing but a little bit of hype and a lot of money for themselves.
the artists themselves are merely employees(read: bitches) of the record labels
Yes the artists are the bitches. Although the customers of these "Big 4" record companies might also be thought of as "bitches", since they basically eat what they are fed.
How does someone find a good lawyer, except by chance?
The only reliable way is through referrals from people you know. I.e., networking. E.g., if you need a personal injury lawyer, but the only good lawyer you know is a real estate lawyer, ask the real estate lawyer to help you find a good personal injury lawyer. If you can't do it through a good lawyer, reach out to friends, business associates, etc., whose judgment you respect.
I can attest to that, having graduated from FPLC. They had extensive externship opportunities (actually working for an entire semester in lieu of classes), clinics, competitions. They are best known as being an IP school so they are particularly well suited for this sort of work in fighting the RIAA.
1. As someone who worked in a law firm all the time I was in law school, I know from personal experience that getting the practical experience along with the law school curriculum is an incredibly valuable part of one's legal education.
2. You have good reason to be proud of your alma mater. This is really in the finest tradition of our profession.
These law schools aren't necessarily representing their own students -- more than likely, they're representing average people who don't have the means to defend themselves.
Correct. In this case, the defendant is just an average person who doesn't have the means to defend herself. (By the way, almost nobody has "the means to defend themselves" in a federal copyright infringement litigation, let alone one brought by the unscrupulous vipers the RIAA uses.)
I'm most saddened when I see artists give in to the brainwashing the music executives do to them and come out against it.
Most performers today totally get it... and can't wait for their recording agreement commitments to be over.
the fact that he is proud of that marble shit just goes to show what kind of dickhead tends to become a lawyer--- or maybe, what kind of dickhead becoming a lawyer tends to turn you into.
Isn't there a third possibility? Like that some lawyers are jerks? Just like there are some jerks everywhere else in the general population?
Sorry for my misremembering of history! I may have gotten the facts wrong, but I got the spirit right.
Good law schools should really take advantage of this opportunity. I think schools could be judged by this for how up to date they are and how much they really care about their lawyers getting real experience in the classroom.
I agree, and Franklin Pierce happens to be one of those institutions that really cares about getting its students real-world, law-practice, experience.
dont these people have a site they take donations for the effort, or we just donate to eff.org ?
Yes you can! Go here to donate to the Franklin Pierce Law Center. Let them know why you're doing it, too, because you appreciate the courageous work that their law clinic is doing on behalf of Mavis Roy.
Don't Tread on Me! Baby!
Good one. Hope you get modded to +5. Here's to the great state of New Hampshire, home of the Green Mountain Boys.
I'll accept "Copyright Voice of Sanity".
I, despite not being American (but I do live nearby), nominate Ray Beckerman [blogspot.com] (NewYorkCountryLawyer [slashdot.org]). He seems to have lots of relevant experience in this field. Any seconds?
Thanks, but, being Jewish, I don't really like "czars".
Me coming up with a 'plan' would be like asking me to do your plumbing....
As a lawyer, Ray, you should be familiar with the provisions against cruel and unusual punishment.
Yeah, it would be pretty tough on my customers. Wouldn't want to be in the vicinity when they tried to flush the toilet.
Hey, tell us what you REALLY think Ray! (-: Thanks for the great work you do!
Not that I have any strong feelings about it.
Atlantic Records is one of the most common plaintiffs in the RIAA cases. As far as I'm concerned they should rot in hell.
I think you say that for most of us, sir. Not only that, you actively take part in protecting innocents while fighting against them. Thank you.
Thanks, musicalwoods. Appreciate your support.