>>>And thus, those groups that are unpopular in society get screwed while those that are wildly popular (churches, anyone?) overflow with cash and political influence. Mutual support is part of being a member of society. Our society is founded on the principle of equality of opportunity >>>
Equality of opportunity is NOT the same as equality in income.
Most people have the same opportunities (free government schooling for example), but some choose to sleep through school, so naturally they are not going to have the same results as someone who got all A's and B's. Also you mentioned the church. The church is at its lowest point in history, since so few people attend, and therefore "wildly UNpopular" is a better description. The churches have almost no influence any more... certainly not as much influence as NBC, ABC/disney, FOX, and so on. Or as much influence as the government itself.
As for mutual support, I have no objections to a safety net to help those who are unemployed. I DO have objections to helping those who are still "on the high wire" and therefore don't need a safety net. Government assistance should only kick-in *after* you've fallen off (lost your job), not before.
>>>Then you can target the specific individuals, groups or unfortunate circumstances you want to positively affect, eliminating the expansive government overhead >>>
False. If you give, say, $10000 to a charity, you can not credit your taxes with $10,000. You can only deduct that amount from your income, which reduces you income tax by ~$2000.
So now not only you paying $10000 to a charity, but you're also supporting all but $2000 in the government taxes. It's like you're paying 1.8 times the original amount to support Welfare/charity, instead of just 1.
>>>Having socialized healthcare does not preclude from having private healthcare
That's like saying you can send your child to private school. The problem is this: After the state sucks-away $3000 in School Tax, you no longer have enough money to afford private tuition.
IMHO people who attend private schools should be exempt from School Tax for that year.
Michigan has a better DMV than most states, because they set-up offices in multiple locations inside shopping malls. But if you move to another state like Maryland, you'll go to one central office that serves the entire eastern quarter of the state (~1 million people), and the wait will be 2-3 hours long.
>>>The US has ~40 million people not covered by anything.
Did you ever stop to think that's because we don't WANT to be covered. I could easily afford insurance. I have chosen not to. I rather buy my healthcare the same way I buy my cars, my televisions, my internet, et cetera. With cash, check, or credit card.
I don't have insurance, but I am covered by my own savings account.
And before someone says, "Well what if you don't have enough money"? Answer: If I can afford to buy a $30,000 Lexus or Acura or SUV, then I can certainly afford to buy myself a $30,000 medical procedure. Most don't cost that much; my dad's pacemaker cost about $5000... very affordable. And if the disease is incurable? Like cancer? Oh well. (shrug). Then I die. I'm going to die anyway, so what difference does it make?
People need to accept the facts that they will Not live forever. Not even the government can save you from death.
>>>Doctors love state-sponsored healthcare because those companies just pay.
You know what else doctors love? When I hand them a credit card or check or wad of cash. They LOVE when I walk through the door. Maybe more people should try paying cash.
As for why I have cash, instead of insurance? (1) Insurance is too much hassle. For example my company provides $1000/year of dental insurance, but in order to get it, I have to pay $800/year in premiums. Hmmm. I'd rather just take the easier route and pay the $1000 bill myself; it eliminate a lot of paperwork. (2) I like being in control. I don't want some insurance company telling me what medical procedures I can or can not get. By paying cash or credit card, *I* am the one who decides what I get.
Jim Cramer is an idiot. He'll tell people to invest in banks. Then a month later banks fall, so he tells his viewers they were idiots to invest in banks.
Hello??? You just told them a month earlier to invest in banks. Do a search on youtube.com; it's pretty enlightening.
About $9800.... I don't call that that "considerably less", and now that the stock market has gained ~1000 points in two days, my SPY value has jumped from $10,000 to around $11,000, so I'm back in the profit zone.
Ehhh. It's only been three years since I bought SPY stock; inflation has not eroded the value of the dollar that much, and in the LONG TERM stocks grow at a far faster rate than an interest account.
Yes, but that's not the whole picture. Bush's tax cuts expired. That means I'm paying about $2000 more this taxyear. Meanwhile Obama's going to give me about $1400 tax cute.
$2000 more since Bush's cut expired $1400 taxcut from Obama ===================== $600 more annual payout
Or.... due to the high tax rate, they'd not having enough money leftover to invest in new projects for 2009, and therefore decide to lay me off (or you off).
Or.... just pack up and move somewhere else. If you still don't understand, consider what would happen if Microsoft or Apple was taxes at 100% of their profits. How long do you think would either (a) survive as a company or (b) stay in the U.S.?
>>>Most taxes are paid by people 35K-125K yearly. In other words, the middle class.
Not according to IRS.gov which publishes the figures. Approximately 90% of the money the IRS collects is paid by the top 10% wealthiest citizens.
What that basically means is you could eliminate taxes completely for the $500,000 or less earners, and still have 90% of the government's yearly budget. Personally I think that would be a stupendous idea (and I'm a Republican - surprise).
They may not be "welfare", but they should be. They are supposed to be a "safety net", but the only time you use a safety net is when you fall off the highwire.
Therefore the only people who should receive SS or Medicare are those who "fall off" because they are too poor to survive on their own. In other words someone like me, who will probably have 3 million in savings at retirement, should not be receiving ANY government assistance. I don't need a safety net.
Speaking as a Republican, I'd have no problem raising the minimum wage to $10 an hour. What that basically means is, instead of paying $1.00 for a McDonalds hamburger, I pay $1.20. I don't think that's going to kill me.
My "drainage" as you put it, never leaves my property. Instead it's collected in an underground tank where Mother Nature gradually recycles it back into soil.
It's amazing really. For hundreds of years Americans have lived off their land, finding water and other necessities right there in their own backyard. You don't "need" a central bureaucracy to supply your "stuff" if you can rely on yourself. It's called self-sufficiency.
>>> Ridiculous to think that in 1963 the gadget of choice for Bond was a pager
Not really. I was watching an old 60s "The Avengers" episode where some businessman was bragging about his new "electronic secretary" that went beep. That's all it did; just beep. So seeing Bond carrying a pager that not only beeps, but gives a little message on top of that is utterly amazing.
Remember this was in the age of 0.1 kbit/s modems. Sloooow. Primitive. Barely-worked.
Stealing other people's work is a very effective strategy to succeed in business without really trying. Get free work, then package it as retail software, and $profit$.
I used to work for the FAA and believe me there IS waste to be cut. You could lay-off 75% of the "web-surfing" staff who do almost-nothing, and still get the same amount of work done with the remaining staff. I imagine the entire government is rife with similar levels of 75% wasted labor that could be laid-off, thereby reducing U.S. labor costs to 25-30% current levels.
>>>People earning the minimum wage in this country don't even earn $15,000 in one year.
Since almost-all of them are teenagers living with mom & dad, it doesn't matter. They're not supporting a house or family; they're just looking for spending money to buy the latest High School Musical video (or beer).
A more-relevant stat is how much the average 30-year-old fulltimer earns, and that's around $40,000. And it goes up as they gain seniority. They pay around $10,000 in taxes per year, which is stupid, which was my original point.
>>>I've got a couple of points regarding taxation of the wealthy.
Yeah I don't give a frak about the wealthy. The only thing is: It's the wealthy who give me my job. If we tax them too hard, especially the corporations, then they won't have any money left-over to give the rest of us jobs. (Or worse they might pack-up and move to a country with lower taxes, thereby depressing the U.S. economy even further.)
There was a time when most employees understood they should not bite the hand that feeds them. Ask for fair pay, but don't be too greedy, else the company might lay everyone off. Somewhere along the line people have forgotten that basic foundation.
And finally:
Let's face it. Obama's tax increases also affect US. I'll be paying about $600 more under Obama's plan versus what I paid under Bush II, and I'm just a middle class employee (less than 100K). If Obama really, truly wants to tax the rich, then why am I paying more taxes? I'm not rich.
(1) I'm not libertarian. I'm registered Republican who agrees with Democrats on some things (like legalized same-sex marriage). So bascially you're attempted prejudiced remarks ("He's a Libertarian! He believes this, that and the next thing") completely and totally missed the mark.
Don't prejudge people with arbitrary labels.
(2) I consider corporate welfare to be a worse evil than individual welfare. In my opinion, rather than spend ~$1.5 trillion on various bailouts, we should have left those companies die. They dug themselves into a hole with foolish investments; they can either dig themselves out, or collapse.
(3) I don't consider water under MY ground to be public property. *I* was the one who spent $5000 to drill a well into the ground and tap the reservoir, therefore the well belongs to me. The reservoir is runs under several of my neighbors' property as well. If they want access, let them build their own damn wells.
Same argument applies to any coal I find on MY land, or trees growing on MY property, or cows grazing on MY grasses. This is PRIVATE property, not public. I paid $130,000 for it, and it belongs to me, not you.
Slashdot Mirror
>>>And thus, those groups that are unpopular in society get screwed while those that are wildly popular (churches, anyone?) overflow with cash and political influence. Mutual support is part of being a member of society. Our society is founded on the principle of equality of opportunity
>>>
Equality of opportunity is NOT the same as equality in income.
Most people have the same opportunities (free government schooling for example), but some choose to sleep through school, so naturally they are not going to have the same results as someone who got all A's and B's. Also you mentioned the church. The church is at its lowest point in history, since so few people attend, and therefore "wildly UNpopular" is a better description. The churches have almost no influence any more... certainly not as much influence as NBC, ABC/disney, FOX, and so on. Or as much influence as the government itself.
As for mutual support, I have no objections to a safety net to help those who are unemployed. I DO have objections to helping those who are still "on the high wire" and therefore don't need a safety net. Government assistance should only kick-in *after* you've fallen off (lost your job), not before.
>>>Then you can target the specific individuals, groups or unfortunate circumstances you want to positively affect, eliminating the expansive government overhead
>>>
False. If you give, say, $10000 to a charity, you can not credit your taxes with $10,000. You can only deduct that amount from your income, which reduces you income tax by ~$2000.
So now not only you paying $10000 to a charity, but you're also supporting all but $2000 in the government taxes. It's like you're paying 1.8 times the original amount to support Welfare/charity, instead of just 1.
>>>Having socialized healthcare does not preclude from having private healthcare
That's like saying you can send your child to private school. The problem is this: After the state sucks-away $3000 in School Tax, you no longer have enough money to afford private tuition.
IMHO people who attend private schools should be exempt from School Tax for that year.
Michigan has a better DMV than most states, because they set-up offices in multiple locations inside shopping malls. But if you move to another state like Maryland, you'll go to one central office that serves the entire eastern quarter of the state (~1 million people), and the wait will be 2-3 hours long.
>>>The US has ~40 million people not covered by anything.
Did you ever stop to think that's because we don't WANT to be covered. I could easily afford insurance. I have chosen not to. I rather buy my healthcare the same way I buy my cars, my televisions, my internet, et cetera. With cash, check, or credit card.
I don't have insurance, but I am covered by my own savings account.
And before someone says, "Well what if you don't have enough money"? Answer: If I can afford to buy a $30,000 Lexus or Acura or SUV, then I can certainly afford to buy myself a $30,000 medical procedure. Most don't cost that much; my dad's pacemaker cost about $5000... very affordable. And if the disease is incurable? Like cancer? Oh well. (shrug). Then I die. I'm going to die anyway, so what difference does it make?
People need to accept the facts that they will Not live forever. Not even the government can save you from death.
>>>Doctors love state-sponsored healthcare because those companies just pay.
You know what else doctors love? When I hand them a credit card or check or wad of cash. They LOVE when I walk through the door. Maybe more people should try paying cash.
As for why I have cash, instead of insurance? (1) Insurance is too much hassle. For example my company provides $1000/year of dental insurance, but in order to get it, I have to pay $800/year in premiums. Hmmm. I'd rather just take the easier route and pay the $1000 bill myself; it eliminate a lot of paperwork. (2) I like being in control. I don't want some insurance company telling me what medical procedures I can or can not get. By paying cash or credit card, *I* am the one who decides what I get.
P.S.
>>>0.1 kbit/s modems
That's 10 characters per second, or approximately one-third reading speed.
Jim Cramer is an idiot. He'll tell people to invest in banks. Then a month later banks fall, so he tells his viewers they were idiots to invest in banks.
Hello??? You just told them a month earlier to invest in banks. Do a search on youtube.com; it's pretty enlightening.
>>>considerably less
About $9800.... I don't call that that "considerably less", and now that the stock market has gained ~1000 points in two days, my SPY value has jumped from $10,000 to around $11,000, so I'm back in the profit zone.
>>>high-yield savings account with no earning cap
Ehhh. It's only been three years since I bought SPY stock; inflation has not eroded the value of the dollar that much, and in the LONG TERM stocks grow at a far faster rate than an interest account.
Yes, but that's not the whole picture. Bush's tax cuts expired. That means I'm paying about $2000 more this taxyear. Meanwhile Obama's going to give me about $1400 tax cute.
$2000 more since Bush's cut expired
$1400 taxcut from Obama
=====================
$600 more annual payout
Or.... due to the high tax rate, they'd not having enough money leftover to invest in new projects for 2009, and therefore decide to lay me off (or you off).
Or.... just pack up and move somewhere else. If you still don't understand, consider what would happen if Microsoft or Apple was taxes at 100% of their profits. How long do you think would either (a) survive as a company or (b) stay in the U.S.?
>>>Most taxes are paid by people 35K-125K yearly. In other words, the middle class.
Not according to IRS.gov which publishes the figures. Approximately 90% of the money the IRS collects is paid by the top 10% wealthiest citizens.
What that basically means is you could eliminate taxes completely for the $500,000 or less earners, and still have 90% of the government's yearly budget. Personally I think that would be a stupendous idea (and I'm a Republican - surprise).
>>>Its more that they have received more break and cuts that the rest of us.
Well then, wouldn't it be more logical to eliminate the tax breaks and other loopholes?
They may not be "welfare", but they should be. They are supposed to be a "safety net", but the only time you use a safety net is when you fall off the highwire.
Therefore the only people who should receive SS or Medicare are those who "fall off" because they are too poor to survive on their own. In other words someone like me, who will probably have 3 million in savings at retirement, should not be receiving ANY government assistance. I don't need a safety net.
Speaking as a Republican, I'd have no problem raising the minimum wage to $10 an hour. What that basically means is, instead of paying $1.00 for a McDonalds hamburger, I pay $1.20. I don't think that's going to kill me.
My "drainage" as you put it, never leaves my property. Instead it's collected in an underground tank where Mother Nature gradually recycles it back into soil.
It's amazing really. For hundreds of years Americans have lived off their land, finding water and other necessities right there in their own backyard. You don't "need" a central bureaucracy to supply your "stuff" if you can rely on yourself. It's called self-sufficiency.
>>> Ridiculous to think that in 1963 the gadget of choice for Bond was a pager
Not really. I was watching an old 60s "The Avengers" episode where some businessman was bragging about his new "electronic secretary" that went beep. That's all it did; just beep. So seeing Bond carrying a pager that not only beeps, but gives a little message on top of that is utterly amazing.
Remember this was in the age of 0.1 kbit/s modems. Sloooow. Primitive. Barely-worked.
Yes.
Stealing other people's work is a very effective strategy to succeed in business without really trying. Get free work, then package it as retail software, and $profit$.
>>>If it weren't for these long copyright laws, people could openly archive
People are doing that now.
Shh.
>>>there just isn't enough waste to cut,
I used to work for the FAA and believe me there IS waste to be cut. You could lay-off 75% of the "web-surfing" staff who do almost-nothing, and still get the same amount of work done with the remaining staff. I imagine the entire government is rife with similar levels of 75% wasted labor that could be laid-off, thereby reducing U.S. labor costs to 25-30% current levels.
P.S.
Okay. The war. So what was the reason I was paying $15,000 in income taxes in the 1990s? There was no Iraq War during Clinton's term.
>>>People earning the minimum wage in this country don't even earn $15,000 in one year.
Since almost-all of them are teenagers living with mom & dad, it doesn't matter. They're not supporting a house or family; they're just looking for spending money to buy the latest High School Musical video (or beer).
A more-relevant stat is how much the average 30-year-old fulltimer earns, and that's around $40,000. And it goes up as they gain seniority. They pay around $10,000 in taxes per year, which is stupid, which was my original point.
>>>I've got a couple of points regarding taxation of the wealthy.
Yeah I don't give a frak about the wealthy. The only thing is: It's the wealthy who give me my job. If we tax them too hard, especially the corporations, then they won't have any money left-over to give the rest of us jobs. (Or worse they might pack-up and move to a country with lower taxes, thereby depressing the U.S. economy even further.)
There was a time when most employees understood they should not bite the hand that feeds them. Ask for fair pay, but don't be too greedy, else the company might lay everyone off. Somewhere along the line people have forgotten that basic foundation.
And finally:
Let's face it. Obama's tax increases also affect US. I'll be paying about $600 more under Obama's plan versus what I paid under Bush II, and I'm just a middle class employee (less than 100K). If Obama really, truly wants to tax the rich, then why am I paying more taxes? I'm not rich.
(1) I'm not libertarian. I'm registered Republican who agrees with Democrats on some things (like legalized same-sex marriage). So bascially you're attempted prejudiced remarks ("He's a Libertarian! He believes this, that and the next thing") completely and totally missed the mark.
Don't prejudge people with arbitrary labels.
(2) I consider corporate welfare to be a worse evil than individual welfare. In my opinion, rather than spend ~$1.5 trillion on various bailouts, we should have left those companies die. They dug themselves into a hole with foolish investments; they can either dig themselves out, or collapse.
(3) I don't consider water under MY ground to be public property. *I* was the one who spent $5000 to drill a well into the ground and tap the reservoir, therefore the well belongs to me. The reservoir is runs under several of my neighbors' property as well. If they want access, let them build their own damn wells.
Same argument applies to any coal I find on MY land, or trees growing on MY property, or cows grazing on MY grasses. This is PRIVATE property, not public. I paid $130,000 for it, and it belongs to me, not you.