I'm not talking about reliability while sitting still, I mean while being mobile, ie moving around. SSDs do have their downsides of course, but I'd prefer an SSD in all my future laptops. In my desktop I have an SSD and a HDD. I expect the HDD to outlive the SSD.
Ubuntu one didn't work very well for me when I first tried it (soon after it came out), though I presume they've made it better now.
Dropbox does keep track of previous versions, but yes I suppose taking an offline snapshot of your files from time to time is important depending on what kind of data it is.
I think "archiving" rather than deleting after a certain date would be vastly preferable. Then just clear out the archive folder manually from time to time. Otherwise there's too much potential for user error/confusion. In a networked environment especially that could cause some headaches.
I think with email thing you should set up a meeting/calendar event rather than have a plain email. Then you get reminders of it up until the event, and afterwards it's out of your hair, unless you want to review it on the calendar..
Yep. I had similar problems. I decided that there was no point using alternate sessions either. If I'm just going to be using a vanilla Gnome session, why not go with Debian or any other distro?
I liked a few of the things that they'd done so far such as the passive notifications system, and I was even looking forward to trying Wayland. And I don't care which side of a window the close button is on, as I've used both sides on different OSes over the years and seem to be able to adjust without thinking about it. But seriously, they completely lost me with Unity. I simply don't even understand what problem they were trying to fix with it. I like the Android interface on my tablet, it's great for the form factor - but I don't want to use the Android interface on my computer. Then again, I would choose desktop Android over Unity, because the interface is much cleaner.
For those that only need a tiny set of files backed up, you can use stuff like Dropbox, Ubuntu One, etc. as a convenient addition to any other backup system you have. Those automatically synch to other devices, and keep a cloud backup with previous versions.
To do your own Dropbox-like backup system, I suppose you could use a content versioning system like svn/git. I hadn't really considered doing something like that until now. It would be less user friendly than Dropbox, but you wouldn't have to pay a subscription, and could have ^gt;100GB repositories. You'd be able to restore using normal commands from a disk if you wanted, but you could also restore from your own remote server.. I may have to try this once my backup requirements grow:)
Shuttleworth is deluded, or trolling., OSX's dock is "slick" and shiny etc, and I like to install clones of it on Gnome. Even Window 7's dock is pretty good too, with its window grouping, previews, and built in progress bars gradually filling up the icon..
I don't use Unity because it's an arrogant piece of crap that tries to change how I do things, rather than letting me decide. I don't want my menu on the left hand side of my screen. I don't want default, non-configurable shortcut keys that override some of the same key combinations I've used for years. I don't want icons that I can't add or remove from the panel.
I do like the way Unity streamlines the menus when you go fullscreen. But that's not enough for me to want to keep it. After (if..) they fix the other issues, I may try it again.
Shuttleworth, I loved Ubuntu until you forced this fucking mess as the default interface. I am now using Mint Debian Edition. Honestly, if I wanted an OS that tries to force me to do things, I'd just go back to OSX. I don't use Linux because I can't afford better, I use it because it can adapt to how I want to use my computer.
Agree. The non-configurable key bindings completely screwed up my workflow. I installed Mint instead. I know I could have chosen a Gnome session rather than Unity, but whatever. Mint looks better, and doesn't force a crappy non-configurable launcher. I'm currently quite liking the Gnome DockBarX plugin.
That article bears no resemblance to my shopping experience. I have been brainwashed to an extent, but it's the opposite way from what most shoppers are. I only buy wholemeal/wholegrain/"brown" types of food, I only buy things where the ingredients match what I want to eat, etc. There was a while where I checked every different brand on the shelf to find the one I wanted to eat type of thing. Now I already know what is good, so that's what I buy. I tend to buy a limited selection of foods too, and I don't deviate outside of it unless I'm forced to visit a store that I've not been to before. In that case I go back to examining the ingredients. I don't care if there's ice or flowers next to stuff. That might make me want to go visit an individual store more, but it won't change how much I buy or eat. I already have decided before I go into a store exactly what I'm going to buy.
So nothing in the last 15 years since downloadable updates have been available. Yeah, that really changes things.
Well, you asked "Have you ever bought a computer with an OS, or a software package, and DIDN'T expect updates for security, functionality, bug fixes, etc?", and you got your answer. The commodity PC and accessories market is quite developed and mature compared to the smartphone market, which has undergone massive changes in the last 5 years or so. Until the iPhone and iOS 2.0 or whatever, most users didn't even download new applications to their phone, let alone run firmware updates.
Most bugs in phones will be in updatable apps, not the Linux kernel
Riiiiight.
Umm.. stable versions of the kernel code have been heavily tested on millions of devices around the world. Most of the apps in the market are written by very inexperienced developers who have no clue about security or stability. Google's app suite is also far less stable than the kernel. I'm not sure what there is to be sarcastic about there.
If you think about it, Apple probably have their latest iOS and iPhone design complete months before roll-out, but they keep it a secret until everything is fully ready to go.
In that few months, the telcos probably do their own QA testing and support cheat-sheet updating, etc the same as they want to do with Android releases. So I think that the telcos would review even iOS updates.
I don't work in the industry though, so all this is obviously just the typical "geek who thinks he can just guess what's really going on" type thinking.
It's interesting to think about the differences in style of the OS releases. iOS updates are kept secret, so even if they're ready for a while before they're updated, people don't complain that they don't have the update yet. With Android, everyone knows when a new release is ready and just bitches until they (maybe) get it. It's like that in the open source world in general, people always complaining about distros not having the latest software packages all the time. The reason that doesn't happen is that it all needs to be tested and verified as stable, and compatible with other packages, etc, etc..
I don't think it's short sightedness so much as just greed and short term profiteering. Phone interfaces were pretty awful before iOS came along and the other companies were forced to try to build better touch interfaces. I suppose their laziness and incompetence is now showing up in the fact that they don't bother to do updates. Hopefully within a few years all those guys will be gone, though it just seems that the culture in all these telephony businesses is to screw the customer over in whatever way they can.
I'm very surprised that Google themselves didn't make more of an effort with providing updates to their own phone though. Hopefully they'll put the effort into current and future Motorola devices, though things will still be limited by the telcos in some way I'm sure, since they apparently like to test every release on every handset..
I often forget what the nice commercials are for, and only remember the things I hated
The nice commercials are few and far between. Certainly less than 100% of commercials. The commercials that I truly despise, I make a point of knowing what the brand is just so that I don't get involved with it, but the other ones I just let it wash over me, in the same way that I can read a book or work in certain types of noisy environment.
I never said that I don't still remember lots of relatively useless crap from day to day, just that I don't try to reinforce it, and I'm a lot more likely to forget (or at least partially forget) the things that simply didn't elicit a response from me. If you don't feel that something is important ("important" in this regard is anything that elicits a strong reaction, so it could be something negative like goatse), your brain will be way less likely to commit it to long term memory. Even if you do commit that stuff to long term for some reason, if nothing ever reminds you of it ("hey, did you see that advert", or some other thing that happens in life that you relate to what happened in the ad), the details will erode. It's not like all ads have Santa driving around giant red trucks with Coca-Cola written on the side.
If you've seen lots of ads for cat food, you might remember the overall theme of the ad, but have no idea which one was for which brand. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. It would be very easy to lead a non cat owner's memory so that they believe an old ad was for a different brand, because they just don't have a strong mental model of all the colours and words associated with the different brands.
Exactly. Those aren't major OS updates worthy of a new major version number. They're the equivalent of installing a new app, not changes to the inner workings of the OS. It's all just hype. And it works, of course. I suppose that's why FF and even Linux are moving that direction with versioning.
Yes. All computers I had before my first x86 PC (with Win98) had no method of getting updates without paying for new OS media. Commodores, Amigas, BBCs, Macs..
Car companies do recalls in exceptional circumstances, yes. Most bugs in phones will be in updatable apps, not the Linux kernel. There will be some in Dalvik or whatever, but most exploitable "drive-by" type problems will be in the browser or email apps for example. To own any device that you can install apps on, all you have to do is get the user to install your app.. and they will probably even update it too, so if it didn't have malicious code at first, they could add it later..
You are either an idiot or simply trolling, as I didn't imply that was the case. Do you remember every ad you've ever watched, and the product name? If you do, I pity you that you don't have more important things to fill your head with.
I've just reailsed that I may have been wrong anyway. I think you may need to explicitly choose "run as admin" instead of the computer simply asking for admin privileges when it needs them in Win7? I've only limited experience with it so far.
Whether it's locked down or not is the irrelevant part, given how quick cracks come out for these devices. Locking them down is futile. I was just pointing out to him that he can in fact install other OSes on his phone with very little hassle, in case he wasn't aware of the fact.
A hint for those who for some reason don't know the answer to his first question: ISPs/telcos are paranoid, greedy, control freaks, and hate the idea of you doing things on your phone that they don't approve of.
Most of those updates aren't for Linux (which is just the kernel), they're for things running on top of Linux. In Android, and I presume iOS, you can have your apps update themselves automatically, or choose to confirm updates. Most security holes will be in the applications themselves. If you're installing malicious software manually, there isn't even a need for an application to utilise a kernel exploit to do what it wants on your phone.
It's okay to want updates, but you shouldn't expect them. If you bought a car, would you expect to get free upgrades that you didn't pay for? Would you even expect to be allowed to install parts from a new Ford model onto your old Ford model even if you paid for it, and still retain your warranty? The excuse basically is that ISPs and/or the manufacturers have to perform work to get their drivers working after an OS update, then run QA on them and I guess loop that round until everything is working right, before they're willing to support an OS update for end users.
In Apple's case they only have a small set of physical hardware to support, so it's easy to test everything and get it running passably on even older hardware (though you still have some people complaining of it making their phone run like ass even when others with the same model have it running okay, etc). They can afford to release updates, and those updates will spur people on to upgrade anyway if they don't run so well. So it pays for itself really. That doesn't mean you should expect all other manufacturers to do the same for every single phone they release, unless they have a contract with you to do this.
Myself I do prefer to go with a provider who will release updates, but if there is no guarantee in place, it's my own fault. In the end, if updates is what's important to you, then feel free to get an iPhone. Don't just expect all manufacturers to focus on the same things or provide the exact same incentives to buy their stuff.
I don't have a "serious memory problem". I just don't try to remember things that I'm not interested in. I remember one ad for a cat doing Parkour that was fun, but I can't tell you which brand of cat food it was selling. Nor do I give a fuck, or see any reason why I should want to know the brand. I remember the Parkour moves the cat was doing though, because that's what I find interesting and fun.
Well, the difference in the form factor is that phones are sold as a unit rather than like desktops and even laptops where you can throw something fairly professional together with just commodity parts.
Before IBM compatibles, most computers were sold as units. You didn't expect to get OS upgrades for free, and you didn't expect to be able to upgrade much of the hardware beyond adding some extra RAM or maybe an expansion card with an FPU or whatever. We've not reached the commodity stage with phones, and I'm not sure that we even will.
To use a car analogy: car makers release new models or model revisions quite often. You expect the car manufacturer to provide servicing and repairs to keep the car running in generally the same reliable condition as it did when you bought it. You don't however expect the manufacturer to offer to install ABS, power steering, air con and airbags to older vehicles. If you want to do that, you have to go to a third party. It's the same with most phones. They make their money selling new models. They probably won't provide the option of modifications, but if they did, you'd expect to have to pay something to cover the development time that goes into re-designing the steering wheel to accomodate an airbag, etc.
Apple can afford to provide the upgrades because they only have a small number of car models. They also make sure that their upgrades only really make sense for newer models though. You don't want to add 100kg of airbags and structural reinforcement to a car who's engine is barely adequate for shifting around a 700kg chassis, plus a 70kg human. In the case of phones, everything is often only on one or two chips anyway so it makes as much sense to upgrade the whole phone as it would to replace the processor..
Well, it's mostly web apps that I do, so more tooltips would make more sense than F1 style loading of a help document.
I've only recently started considering that I should write up some documentation myself, even before putting down any code. Documentation is obviously is beneficial to new users, but while reading other people's views on documentation, I read that writing up the documentation often helps you to think more clearly about the design and purpose of your software. I hadn't considered that before. It doesn't have to be something that bores you out of your skull if you approach it correctly.
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I'm not talking about reliability while sitting still, I mean while being mobile, ie moving around. SSDs do have their downsides of course, but I'd prefer an SSD in all my future laptops. In my desktop I have an SSD and a HDD. I expect the HDD to outlive the SSD.
Not if you want to it to be reliable while you're enjoying your mobility
Or, don't leave unsecured wifi running in your prison?
Ubuntu one didn't work very well for me when I first tried it (soon after it came out), though I presume they've made it better now.
Dropbox does keep track of previous versions, but yes I suppose taking an offline snapshot of your files from time to time is important depending on what kind of data it is.
I think "archiving" rather than deleting after a certain date would be vastly preferable. Then just clear out the archive folder manually from time to time. Otherwise there's too much potential for user error/confusion. In a networked environment especially that could cause some headaches.
I think with email thing you should set up a meeting/calendar event rather than have a plain email. Then you get reminders of it up until the event, and afterwards it's out of your hair, unless you want to review it on the calendar..
Yep. I had similar problems. I decided that there was no point using alternate sessions either. If I'm just going to be using a vanilla Gnome session, why not go with Debian or any other distro?
I liked a few of the things that they'd done so far such as the passive notifications system, and I was even looking forward to trying Wayland. And I don't care which side of a window the close button is on, as I've used both sides on different OSes over the years and seem to be able to adjust without thinking about it. But seriously, they completely lost me with Unity. I simply don't even understand what problem they were trying to fix with it. I like the Android interface on my tablet, it's great for the form factor - but I don't want to use the Android interface on my computer. Then again, I would choose desktop Android over Unity, because the interface is much cleaner.
For those that only need a tiny set of files backed up, you can use stuff like Dropbox, Ubuntu One, etc. as a convenient addition to any other backup system you have. Those automatically synch to other devices, and keep a cloud backup with previous versions.
To do your own Dropbox-like backup system, I suppose you could use a content versioning system like svn/git. I hadn't really considered doing something like that until now. It would be less user friendly than Dropbox, but you wouldn't have to pay a subscription, and could have ^gt;100GB repositories. You'd be able to restore using normal commands from a disk if you wanted, but you could also restore from your own remote server.. I may have to try this once my backup requirements grow :)
Shuttleworth is deluded, or trolling., OSX's dock is "slick" and shiny etc, and I like to install clones of it on Gnome. Even Window 7's dock is pretty good too, with its window grouping, previews, and built in progress bars gradually filling up the icon..
I don't use Unity because it's an arrogant piece of crap that tries to change how I do things, rather than letting me decide. I don't want my menu on the left hand side of my screen. I don't want default, non-configurable shortcut keys that override some of the same key combinations I've used for years. I don't want icons that I can't add or remove from the panel.
I do like the way Unity streamlines the menus when you go fullscreen. But that's not enough for me to want to keep it. After (if..) they fix the other issues, I may try it again.
Shuttleworth, I loved Ubuntu until you forced this fucking mess as the default interface. I am now using Mint Debian Edition. Honestly, if I wanted an OS that tries to force me to do things, I'd just go back to OSX. I don't use Linux because I can't afford better, I use it because it can adapt to how I want to use my computer.
Agree. The non-configurable key bindings completely screwed up my workflow. I installed Mint instead. I know I could have chosen a Gnome session rather than Unity, but whatever. Mint looks better, and doesn't force a crappy non-configurable launcher. I'm currently quite liking the Gnome DockBarX plugin.
That article bears no resemblance to my shopping experience. I have been brainwashed to an extent, but it's the opposite way from what most shoppers are. I only buy wholemeal/wholegrain/"brown" types of food, I only buy things where the ingredients match what I want to eat, etc. There was a while where I checked every different brand on the shelf to find the one I wanted to eat type of thing. Now I already know what is good, so that's what I buy. I tend to buy a limited selection of foods too, and I don't deviate outside of it unless I'm forced to visit a store that I've not been to before. In that case I go back to examining the ingredients. I don't care if there's ice or flowers next to stuff. That might make me want to go visit an individual store more, but it won't change how much I buy or eat. I already have decided before I go into a store exactly what I'm going to buy.
So nothing in the last 15 years since downloadable updates have been available. Yeah, that really changes things.
Well, you asked "Have you ever bought a computer with an OS, or a software package, and DIDN'T expect updates for security, functionality, bug fixes, etc?", and you got your answer. The commodity PC and accessories market is quite developed and mature compared to the smartphone market, which has undergone massive changes in the last 5 years or so. Until the iPhone and iOS 2.0 or whatever, most users didn't even download new applications to their phone, let alone run firmware updates.
Most bugs in phones will be in updatable apps, not the Linux kernel
Riiiiight.
Umm.. stable versions of the kernel code have been heavily tested on millions of devices around the world. Most of the apps in the market are written by very inexperienced developers who have no clue about security or stability. Google's app suite is also far less stable than the kernel. I'm not sure what there is to be sarcastic about there.
If you think about it, Apple probably have their latest iOS and iPhone design complete months before roll-out, but they keep it a secret until everything is fully ready to go.
In that few months, the telcos probably do their own QA testing and support cheat-sheet updating, etc the same as they want to do with Android releases. So I think that the telcos would review even iOS updates.
I don't work in the industry though, so all this is obviously just the typical "geek who thinks he can just guess what's really going on" type thinking.
It's interesting to think about the differences in style of the OS releases. iOS updates are kept secret, so even if they're ready for a while before they're updated, people don't complain that they don't have the update yet. With Android, everyone knows when a new release is ready and just bitches until they (maybe) get it. It's like that in the open source world in general, people always complaining about distros not having the latest software packages all the time. The reason that doesn't happen is that it all needs to be tested and verified as stable, and compatible with other packages, etc, etc..
That was meant to say "less than 1%", not "less than 100%".
Well, I agree there.
I don't think it's short sightedness so much as just greed and short term profiteering. Phone interfaces were pretty awful before iOS came along and the other companies were forced to try to build better touch interfaces. I suppose their laziness and incompetence is now showing up in the fact that they don't bother to do updates. Hopefully within a few years all those guys will be gone, though it just seems that the culture in all these telephony businesses is to screw the customer over in whatever way they can.
I'm very surprised that Google themselves didn't make more of an effort with providing updates to their own phone though. Hopefully they'll put the effort into current and future Motorola devices, though things will still be limited by the telcos in some way I'm sure, since they apparently like to test every release on every handset..
Well, let's review what I said:
I often forget what the nice commercials are for, and only remember the things I hated
The nice commercials are few and far between. Certainly less than 100% of commercials. The commercials that I truly despise, I make a point of knowing what the brand is just so that I don't get involved with it, but the other ones I just let it wash over me, in the same way that I can read a book or work in certain types of noisy environment.
I never said that I don't still remember lots of relatively useless crap from day to day, just that I don't try to reinforce it, and I'm a lot more likely to forget (or at least partially forget) the things that simply didn't elicit a response from me. If you don't feel that something is important ("important" in this regard is anything that elicits a strong reaction, so it could be something negative like goatse), your brain will be way less likely to commit it to long term memory. Even if you do commit that stuff to long term for some reason, if nothing ever reminds you of it ("hey, did you see that advert", or some other thing that happens in life that you relate to what happened in the ad), the details will erode. It's not like all ads have Santa driving around giant red trucks with Coca-Cola written on the side.
If you've seen lots of ads for cat food, you might remember the overall theme of the ad, but have no idea which one was for which brand. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. It would be very easy to lead a non cat owner's memory so that they believe an old ad was for a different brand, because they just don't have a strong mental model of all the colours and words associated with the different brands.
Exactly. Those aren't major OS updates worthy of a new major version number. They're the equivalent of installing a new app, not changes to the inner workings of the OS. It's all just hype. And it works, of course. I suppose that's why FF and even Linux are moving that direction with versioning.
Yes. All computers I had before my first x86 PC (with Win98) had no method of getting updates without paying for new OS media. Commodores, Amigas, BBCs, Macs..
Car companies do recalls in exceptional circumstances, yes. Most bugs in phones will be in updatable apps, not the Linux kernel. There will be some in Dalvik or whatever, but most exploitable "drive-by" type problems will be in the browser or email apps for example. To own any device that you can install apps on, all you have to do is get the user to install your app.. and they will probably even update it too, so if it didn't have malicious code at first, they could add it later..
You are either an idiot or simply trolling, as I didn't imply that was the case. Do you remember every ad you've ever watched, and the product name? If you do, I pity you that you don't have more important things to fill your head with.
I've just reailsed that I may have been wrong anyway. I think you may need to explicitly choose "run as admin" instead of the computer simply asking for admin privileges when it needs them in Win7? I've only limited experience with it so far.
Whether it's locked down or not is the irrelevant part, given how quick cracks come out for these devices. Locking them down is futile. I was just pointing out to him that he can in fact install other OSes on his phone with very little hassle, in case he wasn't aware of the fact.
A hint for those who for some reason don't know the answer to his first question: ISPs/telcos are paranoid, greedy, control freaks, and hate the idea of you doing things on your phone that they don't approve of.
Most of those updates aren't for Linux (which is just the kernel), they're for things running on top of Linux. In Android, and I presume iOS, you can have your apps update themselves automatically, or choose to confirm updates. Most security holes will be in the applications themselves. If you're installing malicious software manually, there isn't even a need for an application to utilise a kernel exploit to do what it wants on your phone.
It's okay to want updates, but you shouldn't expect them. If you bought a car, would you expect to get free upgrades that you didn't pay for? Would you even expect to be allowed to install parts from a new Ford model onto your old Ford model even if you paid for it, and still retain your warranty? The excuse basically is that ISPs and/or the manufacturers have to perform work to get their drivers working after an OS update, then run QA on them and I guess loop that round until everything is working right, before they're willing to support an OS update for end users.
In Apple's case they only have a small set of physical hardware to support, so it's easy to test everything and get it running passably on even older hardware (though you still have some people complaining of it making their phone run like ass even when others with the same model have it running okay, etc). They can afford to release updates, and those updates will spur people on to upgrade anyway if they don't run so well. So it pays for itself really. That doesn't mean you should expect all other manufacturers to do the same for every single phone they release, unless they have a contract with you to do this.
Myself I do prefer to go with a provider who will release updates, but if there is no guarantee in place, it's my own fault. In the end, if updates is what's important to you, then feel free to get an iPhone. Don't just expect all manufacturers to focus on the same things or provide the exact same incentives to buy their stuff.
I don't have a "serious memory problem". I just don't try to remember things that I'm not interested in. I remember one ad for a cat doing Parkour that was fun, but I can't tell you which brand of cat food it was selling. Nor do I give a fuck, or see any reason why I should want to know the brand. I remember the Parkour moves the cat was doing though, because that's what I find interesting and fun.
Well, the difference in the form factor is that phones are sold as a unit rather than like desktops and even laptops where you can throw something fairly professional together with just commodity parts.
Before IBM compatibles, most computers were sold as units. You didn't expect to get OS upgrades for free, and you didn't expect to be able to upgrade much of the hardware beyond adding some extra RAM or maybe an expansion card with an FPU or whatever. We've not reached the commodity stage with phones, and I'm not sure that we even will.
To use a car analogy: car makers release new models or model revisions quite often. You expect the car manufacturer to provide servicing and repairs to keep the car running in generally the same reliable condition as it did when you bought it. You don't however expect the manufacturer to offer to install ABS, power steering, air con and airbags to older vehicles. If you want to do that, you have to go to a third party. It's the same with most phones. They make their money selling new models. They probably won't provide the option of modifications, but if they did, you'd expect to have to pay something to cover the development time that goes into re-designing the steering wheel to accomodate an airbag, etc.
Apple can afford to provide the upgrades because they only have a small number of car models. They also make sure that their upgrades only really make sense for newer models though. You don't want to add 100kg of airbags and structural reinforcement to a car who's engine is barely adequate for shifting around a 700kg chassis, plus a 70kg human. In the case of phones, everything is often only on one or two chips anyway so it makes as much sense to upgrade the whole phone as it would to replace the processor..
Well, it's mostly web apps that I do, so more tooltips would make more sense than F1 style loading of a help document.
I've only recently started considering that I should write up some documentation myself, even before putting down any code. Documentation is obviously is beneficial to new users, but while reading other people's views on documentation, I read that writing up the documentation often helps you to think more clearly about the design and purpose of your software. I hadn't considered that before. It doesn't have to be something that bores you out of your skull if you approach it correctly.