Well sure, except that to people like the AC accepting that Israel has a right to be there now means accepting a "foreign occupation" of Palestinian land.
Since I'm Jewish (and fiercely Zionist) and oppose the occupation of the West Bank, I chose to object to the "foreign" bit rather than the other bit.
Why is it that when mean things are said, regardless of their veracity, about the chinese, the russians, the dutch, or any other ethnic or geopolitical group, it's called racism, but when those same comments are aimed at jewish people, it's called anti-semitism ?
Because some German guy wanted something more scientific to call himself than "Jew-hater", which at the time sounded ever so behind the times and unfashionable.
as the passports used were of people with dual citizenship and as such probably aren't seen by Mossad as "true citizens"
One third of Israelis are immigrants; nobody considers them as "not true citizens" for holding onto a passport from the country in which they were born.
But go ahead and believe paranoid fantasies about the Mossad being a smoke-filled room of Jewish KKK rituals.
"Inventing a Jewish past", here in the sense that most modern Jews have no relation whatsoever to the Israelite Jews of ancient Palestine - whom as we all know were Christened around the year 300...
The thing is, wouldn't you take military action or, if you can't, take terrorist action if you were in their shoes?
Of course not! I'd sue for peace to build a better future for myself, my family, and my community.
In fact, and being so, I can't really see how that is much different from the French resistance against Germany in occupied France. Or, to put it in another way, like the colonizing of the west of the US. That's what Israel is precisely trying to do, I would say.
You really see no difference between Jews in the Jewish homeland and Europeans colonizing nations that are not their own?
Go forces the use of garbage collection and makes me use its included batteries for concurrency. It's an applications-programming language, not systems-programming.
If you really believe that, back EU and American support away from all Palestinian and Israeli organizations and governments... and then don't complain when Israel kicks the Arabs straight into Jordan.\
Westerners always get mad about their own intervention Israeli-Palestinian conflict when the side they're not on scores a point, but as long as their side wins they're perfectly happy to meddle and interfere to the hilt in the name of "peace".
"And who actually obeys the Pope?": Catholics, or they face purgatory/damnation, social ostracism by their church, excommunication, or even torture and murder (it still happens, though not as common as in the dark ages).
You've got to be kidding me. The Church wishes they had that much obedience!
"change their imam...": What does that matter at all to what I am saying? An individual changing their leader of focus does not matter. I am not talking about individuals, I am talking about religious organizations and the people who control and benefit from them.
Religious organizations are made up of individuals, they and their behavior matter profoundly.
The pope gets to say what is and is not a sin for Catholics.
And who actually obeys the Pope?
Almost everyone who follows a religion follows a specific leader, be it a local preacher, the ruling clerics in iran or the pope. People who have power and influence because they are "special". They speak to god and receive wealth, reverence and obedience.
The Pope claims to actually speak to God. Islamic clerics do not, period, and the common Muslim of the world, especially Sunni, can change their imam as often as they change their shirt if they please. Hell, they can not have an imam at all if they want to.
Well Buddhism has already had it demonstrated, but let's try something a bit closer to your home: Judaism and Islam.
A) Veneration of the leader... What leader? These religions as wholes don't have single leaders, or even leading committees.
B) Symbology and vocabulary... Huh? Brand names have their own symbology and vocabulary too. This is completely irrelevant.
C) Demanding unquestioning obedience... Once again, unquestioning obedience to what? They idealize the notion of religious law as something that can be followed to the absolute, but in scholarship and practice no such thing ever exists.
No, this is the reason that you demand a FOSS operating system and root access to your free computer. This is why, when given a free government computer, you exercise your right to wipe the drive and install code you trust.
While many of those adults are ignorant and thus dangerously inept, I really don't think that access to 'free-speech' for 17 year-olds is a particularly vital concern. I'd put brain-washing, economic warfare and simple malnutrition much higher on the list of problems. If children can survive that gauntlet into adulthood, then perhaps they'll have minds capable of seeing and comprehending the world, and thus be able to "use their words" to say something the state might deem worthy of repression.
Great, an ageist who doesn't even care that he's ageist.
Ah, right, so we should ignore the plight of the last legally oppressed group in our society, the young, because in your mind there are brown people to worry about. Row, row, fight da powa!
Did you read your own link? As his motivations for the 9/11 attacks, Bin Laden states that Muslims have a right to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the Ka'aba from Jews and Americans. The Ka'aba is under the sovereignty of a Muslim state, and the al-Aqsa Mosque is under Muslim management in the Jewish state. For these, bin Laden attacked America? How can you call those legitimate, coherent, or even basically sane motives?
If I had an innocent relative killed by a remote-controlled robot I still wouldn't become a suicide bomber. I'd wanna kill the other guy and live to see peaceful days again.
So we make them pay their share too. Just because some people break the law doesn't give anyone else the right to break it, let alone to murder in the name of nothing but personal greed.
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Well sure, except that to people like the AC accepting that Israel has a right to be there now means accepting a "foreign occupation" of Palestinian land.
Since I'm Jewish (and fiercely Zionist) and oppose the occupation of the West Bank, I chose to object to the "foreign" bit rather than the other bit.
Why is it that when mean things are said, regardless of their veracity, about the chinese, the russians, the dutch, or any other ethnic or geopolitical group, it's called racism, but when those same comments are aimed at jewish people, it's called anti-semitism ?
Because some German guy wanted something more scientific to call himself than "Jew-hater", which at the time sounded ever so behind the times and unfashionable.
The part where Jews are foreigners in the land of our origins.
But to say that their basis for attacking Israel is merely its existence is a distortion.
Then why do they claim that as their basis for attacking?
as the passports used were of people with dual citizenship and as such probably aren't seen by Mossad as "true citizens"
One third of Israelis are immigrants; nobody considers them as "not true citizens" for holding onto a passport from the country in which they were born.
But go ahead and believe paranoid fantasies about the Mossad being a smoke-filled room of Jewish KKK rituals.
"Inventing a Jewish past", here in the sense that most modern Jews have no relation whatsoever to the Israelite Jews of ancient Palestine - whom as we all know were Christened around the year 300 ...
Right, all those genetic studies are just lying.
The thing is, wouldn't you take military action or, if you can't, take terrorist action if you were in their shoes?
Of course not! I'd sue for peace to build a better future for myself, my family, and my community.
In fact, and being so, I can't really see how that is much different from the French resistance against Germany in occupied France. Or, to put it in another way, like the colonizing of the west of the US. That's what Israel is precisely trying to do, I would say.
You really see no difference between Jews in the Jewish homeland and Europeans colonizing nations that are not their own?
Go forces the use of garbage collection and makes me use its included batteries for concurrency. It's an applications-programming language, not systems-programming.
Too late, flamewar started.
Being pissed off isn't an excuse for anything unless you wish to argue that Hamas is innocent by reason of insanity.
If you really believe that, back EU and American support away from all Palestinian and Israeli organizations and governments... and then don't complain when Israel kicks the Arabs straight into Jordan.\
Westerners always get mad about their own intervention Israeli-Palestinian conflict when the side they're not on scores a point, but as long as their side wins they're perfectly happy to meddle and interfere to the hilt in the name of "peace".
"And who actually obeys the Pope?": Catholics, or they face purgatory/damnation, social ostracism by their church, excommunication, or even torture and murder (it still happens, though not as common as in the dark ages).
You've got to be kidding me. The Church wishes they had that much obedience!
"change their imam...": What does that matter at all to what I am saying? An individual changing their leader of focus does not matter. I am not talking about individuals, I am talking about religious organizations and the people who control and benefit from them.
Religious organizations are made up of individuals, they and their behavior matter profoundly.
The pope gets to say what is and is not a sin for Catholics.
And who actually obeys the Pope?
Almost everyone who follows a religion follows a specific leader, be it a local preacher, the ruling clerics in iran or the pope. People who have power and influence because they are "special". They speak to god and receive wealth, reverence and obedience.
The Pope claims to actually speak to God. Islamic clerics do not, period, and the common Muslim of the world, especially Sunni, can change their imam as often as they change their shirt if they please. Hell, they can not have an imam at all if they want to.
Well Buddhism has already had it demonstrated, but let's try something a bit closer to your home: Judaism and Islam.
A) Veneration of the leader... What leader? These religions as wholes don't have single leaders, or even leading committees.
B) Symbology and vocabulary... Huh? Brand names have their own symbology and vocabulary too. This is completely irrelevant.
C) Demanding unquestioning obedience... Once again, unquestioning obedience to what? They idealize the notion of religious law as something that can be followed to the absolute, but in scholarship and practice no such thing ever exists.
You burn the strawman, I demolish it.
Knocking on your door? GASP, THE HORROR!
Funny, because to me those don't sound like the trappings of a religion at all -- just like the trappings of an angry atheist's strawman of religion.
No, this is the reason that you demand a FOSS operating system and root access to your free computer. This is why, when given a free government computer, you exercise your right to wipe the drive and install code you trust.
Please take the "Judeo" out of your "Judeo-Christian". We Jews have nothing to do with this crap.
While many of those adults are ignorant and thus dangerously inept, I really don't think that access to 'free-speech' for 17 year-olds is a particularly vital concern. I'd put brain-washing, economic warfare and simple malnutrition much higher on the list of problems. If children can survive that gauntlet into adulthood, then perhaps they'll have minds capable of seeing and comprehending the world, and thus be able to "use their words" to say something the state might deem worthy of repression.
Great, an ageist who doesn't even care that he's ageist.
Ah, right, so we should ignore the plight of the last legally oppressed group in our society, the young, because in your mind there are brown people to worry about. Row, row, fight da powa!
Or you could admit when you're beaten and sue for peace. You know, like sane people.
Did you read your own link? As his motivations for the 9/11 attacks, Bin Laden states that Muslims have a right to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the Ka'aba from Jews and Americans. The Ka'aba is under the sovereignty of a Muslim state, and the al-Aqsa Mosque is under Muslim management in the Jewish state. For these, bin Laden attacked America? How can you call those legitimate, coherent, or even basically sane motives?
If I had an innocent relative killed by a remote-controlled robot I still wouldn't become a suicide bomber. I'd wanna kill the other guy and live to see peaceful days again.
So we make them pay their share too. Just because some people break the law doesn't give anyone else the right to break it, let alone to murder in the name of nothing but personal greed.
I'm sorry, how do you take a square root to 4 significant figures in your head? I could never do Newton's Method without something to write on.