So now the result of this investigation committee comes out: No, they weren't threatened or bribed, and....
By law, regular citizens (and all committee members are) are not allowed to meet the custody staff, or inspect any related file. So during the one day of "investigation", they recorded honestly what they saw and heard in the policy custody. And it's "absolutely impossible" for them to uncover any possible secret....
I think to be legal, they have to have contracts with ISPs. Considering good relations some UK ISPs have with other telco/ISPs, I'm hopeful they'll open up gradually.
You clearly have strong justice in mind, which is a good thing, if combined with truth. I should appologize for refering too much to current US policy too.
I would recommend you read some serious research papers on these topics. Read western's, not from China's, so that you can trust more. Like Far Eastern Economic Review, or Foreign Policy. Don't believe too much on random talks. By the way, Foreign Policy recently had an issue covering China. A Singaporean researcher's paper is particularly interesting to me, because it offered a view from neither big nations, and contains deep understanding. To make you more confident, his name appears not ethnic Chinese, (maybe ethnic Indian, I guess).
And about "deliberately... genocide", I suggest you take a trip to China's North Western region, where most Chinese Muslims live. My friend had travelled there and saw the western travelling with him, so most of areas are open to you to visit.
Again, I'm not interested in defending China government's wrongdoing, but I don't like people demonizing China either.
That's not what we're discussing here about Taiwan-China. But now that you like this tpoic, let's talk about it.
China government has done bad things, but you've exaggrated too much. "invaded Vietnam", it has mixed interpretations even in the west. "supplied Afghan fighters against the Soviet Union", isn't US the main supplier? and Mr. Rumsfield played a key role here. "worked on a genocide program against Muslims", Eastern Turkish Revolution Roganization is a terroist group long before 9/11, who performed bus bombs in 1990s. China government's treatment can be viewed biased, but far from genocide. "given nuclear weapon plans to Pakistan", don't know much about it. What about Isreal's nuclear capability that US knows too well to mention it? I don't know whether US has any role in it. "is going to get a lot more people killed", Are you predicting an evil China and want a pre-emptive war to prevent?
You seem to know a lot of "hidden things" and consider it facts.
Having partial knowledge is the 2nd most dangerous thing, (the only thing worse is having prejudice), bacause it can easily mislead others without knowledge. If you'd like, I'm happy to exchange with you some Asia histoy offline with email.
Regarding this topic, is it exactly good to have bias without investigation? Even if you don't ask mainland Chinese, pro-unifying parties control congress in Taiwan, and pro-independence party is doing poorer in survey even with pro-independence government's help. The pro-independent president was elected with a 0.027% majority last year, and some story behind.
And by the way, China hasn't been exactly aggressive since its reform, and there's great free nation much more aggressive recently.
A few years ago I was a foreign graduate student in a tier-2 American university, which means it ranks about 20-30. I'm not very familiar with top 10s, but from what I've seen, most American students lack basic math/engineering skills to solve problem. In the classroom, Chinese, Indian and Russian students can easily follow what professors' instruction. Although American students are most interactive, they mostly ask a little "dumb" questions, rather than the root cause, or broader view.
I had talked with an Indian friend before, who knew a lot about SAT. It seems SAT standard is far less than Chinese and Indian counterpart. I heard Russian has an even better mathematics background. I kinda believe what he said, because I saw many Chinese migrant students easily got very high SAT scores.
China's rigid test-oriented education system has great disadvantage later in creativity and freedom in thinking, but I think American K-12 is too liberal to care about basic skills. I'd think a perfect one would be an Asian-type, more test-oriented K-12, plus a creative,vibrant research-oriented college-level system.
A few quick comments in my still very Chinese mind
massive cencorship is sure a lost course for Chinese government. Almost everybody in China, including officials, believes democracy is the goal and will come one day, although almost nobody believes they should come imminently. Government is doing it to deter "unwashed masses", as gvc pointed out, and doing it as long as they can.
Also noteworthy how much government has changed from N.Korean-type 30 years ago: every year they use less and less punishment, even when they use more preventitive method. This is why you see so many creative ways to evade cencorship.
democracy and good administration are two separate things. we've seen way too many failed democratic developing countries, so most Chinese buy in the government words about China is not ready for democracy yet. Also democracy is different from free speech. Even after China turns democracy, I expect online porn still largely banned... at that time, we'll see cat-and mouse game for online sex:)
FaLun Gong is notorious among both Chinese in China and Chinese oversea. As Spy der Mann said: it's sad that the reason this cult was censored, is not because they abuse their followers physically and emotionally, but because they threaten the chinese national security. And it's MORE sad because of their aftermath, many other good groups are banned.
A few real codes (abbrevs) for people interested:
democracy--MZ, government--ZF, communist party--GCD, FaLun Gong--FLG, leaders' name are also abbreved, or call "old xxx",... these are just most common ways.
Slashdot Mirror
So now the result of this investigation committee comes out: No, they weren't threatened or bribed, and ....
By law, regular citizens (and all committee members are) are not allowed to meet the custody staff, or inspect any related file. So during the one day of "investigation", they recorded honestly what they saw and heard in the policy custody. And it's "absolutely impossible" for them to uncover any possible secret....
A nice PR try, that's all.
But still a progress.
http://news.ifeng.com/opinion/200902/0222_23_1026999.shtml
I think to be legal, they have to have contracts with ISPs. Considering good relations some UK ISPs have with other telco/ISPs, I'm hopeful they'll open up gradually.
You clearly have strong justice in mind, which is a good thing, if combined with truth. I should appologize for refering too much to current US policy too.
I would recommend you read some serious research papers on these topics. Read western's, not from China's, so that you can trust more. Like Far Eastern Economic Review, or Foreign Policy. Don't believe too much on random talks. By the way, Foreign Policy recently had an issue covering China. A Singaporean researcher's paper is particularly interesting to me, because it offered a view from neither big nations, and contains deep understanding. To make you more confident, his name appears not ethnic Chinese, (maybe ethnic Indian, I guess).
And about "deliberately... genocide", I suggest you take a trip to China's North Western region, where most Chinese Muslims live. My friend had travelled there and saw the western travelling with him, so most of areas are open to you to visit.
Again, I'm not interested in defending China government's wrongdoing, but I don't like people demonizing China either.
China government has done bad things, but you've exaggrated too much. "invaded Vietnam", it has mixed interpretations even in the west. "supplied Afghan fighters against the Soviet Union", isn't US the main supplier? and Mr. Rumsfield played a key role here. "worked on a genocide program against Muslims", Eastern Turkish Revolution Roganization is a terroist group long before 9/11, who performed bus bombs in 1990s. China government's treatment can be viewed biased, but far from genocide. "given nuclear weapon plans to Pakistan", don't know much about it. What about Isreal's nuclear capability that US knows too well to mention it? I don't know whether US has any role in it. "is going to get a lot more people killed", Are you predicting an evil China and want a pre-emptive war to prevent?
You seem to know a lot of "hidden things" and consider it facts.
Having partial knowledge is the 2nd most dangerous thing, (the only thing worse is having prejudice), bacause it can easily mislead others without knowledge. If you'd like, I'm happy to exchange with you some Asia histoy offline with email.
Regarding this topic, is it exactly good to have bias without investigation? Even if you don't ask mainland Chinese, pro-unifying parties control congress in Taiwan, and pro-independence party is doing poorer in survey even with pro-independence government's help. The pro-independent president was elected with a 0.027% majority last year, and some story behind.
And by the way, China hasn't been exactly aggressive since its reform, and there's great free nation much more aggressive recently.
A few years ago I was a foreign graduate student in a tier-2 American university, which means it ranks about 20-30. I'm not very familiar with top 10s, but from what I've seen, most American students lack basic math/engineering skills to solve problem. In the classroom, Chinese, Indian and Russian students can easily follow what professors' instruction. Although American students are most interactive, they mostly ask a little "dumb" questions, rather than the root cause, or broader view.
I had talked with an Indian friend before, who knew a lot about SAT. It seems SAT standard is far less than Chinese and Indian counterpart. I heard Russian has an even better mathematics background. I kinda believe what he said, because I saw many Chinese migrant students easily got very high SAT scores.
China's rigid test-oriented education system has great disadvantage later in creativity and freedom in thinking, but I think American K-12 is too liberal to care about basic skills. I'd think a perfect one would be an Asian-type, more test-oriented K-12, plus a creative,vibrant research-oriented college-level system.
A few quick comments in my still very Chinese mind massive cencorship is sure a lost course for Chinese government. Almost everybody in China, including officials, believes democracy is the goal and will come one day, although almost nobody believes they should come imminently. Government is doing it to deter "unwashed masses", as gvc pointed out, and doing it as long as they can. Also noteworthy how much government has changed from N.Korean-type 30 years ago: every year they use less and less punishment, even when they use more preventitive method. This is why you see so many creative ways to evade cencorship. democracy and good administration are two separate things. we've seen way too many failed democratic developing countries, so most Chinese buy in the government words about China is not ready for democracy yet. Also democracy is different from free speech. Even after China turns democracy, I expect online porn still largely banned... at that time, we'll see cat-and mouse game for online sex :)
FaLun Gong is notorious among both Chinese in China and Chinese oversea. As Spy der Mann said: it's sad that the reason this cult was censored, is not because they abuse their followers physically and emotionally, but because they threaten the chinese national security. And it's MORE sad because of their aftermath, many other good groups are banned.
A few real codes (abbrevs) for people interested:
democracy--MZ, government--ZF, communist party--GCD, FaLun Gong--FLG, leaders' name are also abbreved, or call "old xxx",... these are just most common ways.