Arguably Windows is not ready for the Desktop either. It's a matter of perspective and your point is completely valid. But my point *is* that I *have* been using Linux on my *Desktop* for years.
To paraphrase Clinton, it all depnds on what your definition of "desktop" is.
I quote: During 1992 and 1993, the Linux kernel gathered all the necessary features it required to work as a replacement for Unix workstations, including TCP/IP networking and a graphical windowing system (the X Window System). Linux also received plenty of industry attention, and several small companies were started to develop and distribute Linux. Dozens of user groups were founded, and the Linux Journal magazine started to appear in early 1994.
Just one of several examples of doing a google search on Linux History. I personally have bene using Linux on my desktop and servers since I discovered Slackwarein 1996. (Thanks Patrick!:-)
And if a list of bugs and exploits comes out on well used Open Source Software, without the means to fix them, and these lists are leaked, it could create havoc.
I can see your point but I am a big believer in full disclosure. We all know from experience that MS's "Security by obscurity" doesn't work well. If there are bugs in OSS then people will find them, the nature of Open code.
Now IMHO malware writers *do* comb through OSS looking for bugs to exploit. If a bunch of malware writers are finding exploits and bugs and sharing them with fellow naredowells (and certainly not with us, the IT community who has to remove this crap) then I think it is a good thing that someone does the same for the good guys.
Bottom line I would rather know about an unpatched problem and try to take steps to mitigate it until a patch is released then to just sit back and hope that the bugs in my software go unnoticed and unexploited.
As usual there is great information on this at Groklaw.
Apperently the PTO and the companies they are working with are looking for input from the general community so here's a chance to have your $.02 heard somewhere else besides/.
Per PJ: I know from your comments that some of you feel that the only solution is to get rid of software patents altogether, and if you can accomplish that, feel free. But others of you have expressed the thought that high quality patents are legitimate, for ideas that are truly innovative and represent real scientific progress. Think what it means that the USPTO is participating and asking for your help.
The potential security implications of having IE intergrated so closely with the OS could be a genuine worry for a small number of people but then why are those people using Windows anyway?
So if I want security I shouldn't use Windows? While I agree with you, that is the present situation, the reality is that is complete and utter BS.
If MS wants users who need to get *real work* done in a *secure* environment then they need to take security seriously. And, although they seem to be trying, they are *not* helping when they do not allow non-essential software to be easily removed from the OS. My f%$#ing Windows *Server* comes with Media Player. Why?
The other problem with this statement is the way everyone cries foul when Microsoft default installs an app with Windows
sigh... As as been said here and many times before; it's not that Windows *ships* with these applications or even that they are *installed*. It's that you can't (easily) *remove* them in favor of something else.
If I could a) easily install Windows and choose not to install IE, OE and WMP or b) easily remove these from an already installed PC then I would not care a bit about there existence.
Despite how much I prefer Firefox and WinAmp, IE and WMP are still lurking around on my machine becasue it is a total PITA to remove them.
How about when you take the third party applications out of each list? For Windows, anything that doesn't ship with the OS. For Linux (tough, because distro's ship a lot of third party apps) you could remove applications that rarely, if ever, get installed by a typical end user distribution by default.
Both numbers decrease significantly at this point.
That's true but according to PJ at Groklaw third party products for Windows that had vulnerabilities were included in the Windows list.
To be fair, the Windows list isn't really an accurate list of Windows vulnerabilities either, not the way I would think of it. It also has duplicative items, such as for Microsoft ASP.NET Canonicalization (Updated). And it includes Apple, F-Secure, IBM WebSphere, McAfee and other third-party vendor issues. If it can happen to you if you use Windows and the third party software, it's on the list, I guess.
Neither the Windows or the Linux version gives you a true picture of OS security. It just goes to show that there are a lot of vuknerable software packages out there.
What!? When you wish upon a Weintstein... That was one of my favorites! And as for new vs. old. I think Family Guy has always been kind of hit or miss. It's the one liners and perfect moments that are funny but I can't think of many whole shows that were just outstanding. (Except When you wish upon a Weintstein):-)
Ultimately the fault and blame is on the assailant.
I agree whole heartedly although, as a parent, I would add that part of the blame rests on the parents for letting it get that far in the first place. My daughter has access to two compters in our house, one in plain site in our living room where if she is using it my wife or I are watching and one in her room that is *not* capable of connecting to the internet.
Without knowing the details I may be wrong here but isn't adding new features to bullets and numbering and mail merge all part of making it more compatible with MS Office? These features will make MS documents easier to open in OO (bullets) and add feature compatibility that MSO users expect (mail merge).
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, yes, very Interesting. But...
Hell, the other day I inserted a gibberish statistic in an article about a city
Why would you do that?
You forgot "Has Netcraft confirmed this?"
Arguably Windows is not ready for the Desktop either. It's a matter of perspective and your point is completely valid. But my point *is* that I *have* been using Linux on my *Desktop* for years.
To paraphrase Clinton, it all depnds on what your definition of "desktop" is.
1993 according to this.
:-)
I quote:
During 1992 and 1993, the Linux kernel gathered all the necessary features it required to work as a replacement for Unix workstations, including TCP/IP networking and a graphical windowing system (the X Window System). Linux also received plenty of industry attention, and several small companies were started to develop and distribute Linux. Dozens of user groups were founded, and the Linux Journal magazine started to appear in early 1994.
Just one of several examples of doing a google search on Linux History. I personally have bene using Linux on my desktop and servers since I discovered Slackwarein 1996. (Thanks Patrick!
Well if I was listening to Britney Spears all day and night I certainly wouldn't want anyone to find out about it! :-)
And if a list of bugs and exploits comes out on well used Open Source Software, without the means to fix them, and these lists are leaked, it could create havoc.
I can see your point but I am a big believer in full disclosure. We all know from experience that MS's "Security by obscurity" doesn't work well. If there are bugs in OSS then people will find them, the nature of Open code.
Now IMHO malware writers *do* comb through OSS looking for bugs to exploit. If a bunch of malware writers are finding exploits and bugs and sharing them with fellow naredowells (and certainly not with us, the IT community who has to remove this crap) then I think it is a good thing that someone does the same for the good guys.
Bottom line I would rather know about an unpatched problem and try to take steps to mitigate it until a patch is released then to just sit back and hope that the bugs in my software go unnoticed and unexploited.
As usual there is great information on this at Groklaw.
/.
Apperently the PTO and the companies they are working with are looking for input from the general community so here's a chance to have your $.02 heard somewhere else besides
Per PJ:
I know from your comments that some of you feel that the only solution is to get rid of software patents altogether, and if you can accomplish that, feel free. But others of you have expressed the thought that high quality patents are legitimate, for ideas that are truly innovative and represent real scientific progress. Think what it means that the USPTO is participating and asking for your help.
(or, at least, *I* read Slashdot -- and have for years; check my user number)
:-)
Forget your user number, you are the man for getting that username
The potential security implications of having IE intergrated so closely with the OS could be a genuine worry for a small number of people but then why are those people using Windows anyway?
So if I want security I shouldn't use Windows? While I agree with you, that is the present situation, the reality is that is complete and utter BS.
If MS wants users who need to get *real work* done in a *secure* environment then they need to take security seriously. And, although they seem to be trying, they are *not* helping when they do not allow non-essential software to be easily removed from the OS. My f%$#ing Windows *Server* comes with Media Player. Why?
The other problem with this statement is the way everyone cries foul when Microsoft default installs an app with Windows
sigh... As as been said here and many times before; it's not that Windows *ships* with these applications or even that they are *installed*. It's that you can't (easily) *remove* them in favor of something else.
If I could a) easily install Windows and choose not to install IE, OE and WMP or b) easily remove these from an already installed PC then I would not care a bit about there existence.
Despite how much I prefer Firefox and WinAmp, IE and WMP are still lurking around on my machine becasue it is a total PITA to remove them.
Has Netcraft confirmed this?
Hands down my favorite Open Source project!
How about when you take the third party applications out of each list? For Windows, anything that doesn't ship with the OS. For Linux (tough, because distro's ship a lot of third party apps) you could remove applications that rarely, if ever, get installed by a typical end user distribution by default.
Both numbers decrease significantly at this point.
That's true but according to PJ at Groklaw third party products for Windows that had vulnerabilities were included in the Windows list.
To be fair, the Windows list isn't really an accurate list of Windows vulnerabilities either, not the way I would think of it. It also has duplicative items, such as for Microsoft ASP.NET Canonicalization (Updated). And it includes Apple, F-Secure, IBM WebSphere, McAfee and other third-party vendor issues. If it can happen to you if you use Windows and the third party software, it's on the list, I guess.
Neither the Windows or the Linux version gives you a true picture of OS security. It just goes to show that there are a lot of vuknerable software packages out there.
What!? When you wish upon a Weintstein... That was one of my favorites! And as for new vs. old. I think Family Guy has always been kind of hit or miss. It's the one liners and perfect moments that are funny but I can't think of many whole shows that were just outstanding. (Except When you wish upon a Weintstein) :-)
What do these shows have in common? /raises hand... Ooh, ooh, I know, pick me!
They all begin with F?
Ultimately the fault and blame is on the assailant.
I agree whole heartedly although, as a parent, I would add that part of the blame rests on the parents for letting it get that far in the first place. My daughter has access to two compters in our house, one in plain site in our living room where if she is using it my wife or I are watching and one in her room that is *not* capable of connecting to the internet.
As always Groklaw is the place to go!
:-)
Groklaw for info on SCO, Google for everything else...
That's because everyone knows XFCE is way cooler.
It may be an internal security concern.
Microsoft? Concerned about security? You must be new.
why should you care about vi when you have notepad (which does the same job with less confusing commands)?
You, sir, have obviously never used vi...
...because that's where they're going to lose customers. And Korea.
In Korea only old people still use Windows.
But why does it make slashdot EVERY single time he makes a comment?
You must be new here.
Without knowing the details I may be wrong here but isn't adding new features to bullets and numbering and mail merge all part of making it more compatible with MS Office? These features will make MS documents easier to open in OO (bullets) and add feature compatibility that MSO users expect (mail merge).
"with balding, over-weight, potato-chip eating, diet dr pibb drinking, socially inept, 12 hour funk from working without moving, and red-stapler asking, porn addicted 90 pound eye-glass wearing (weird foreign accent too?) wimplings"
So which one are you?