Actually that's why we have a Republic instead of a true democracy.
When I read that, I didn't know you meant. So I googled "republic democracy" and this is what I got on my first hit:
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3388
Which is one excellent article that basically repeats what I said about the evils of democracy.
IMHO, regardless what the US appears to be on paper, I say it is a democracy in practice - judging by tangible results. The principles embodied in the constitution, which I admire, mean little in today's world as they have not been upheld over time. If they had been respected, I wouldn't be complaining and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The forces of democracy along with a perverse form of capitalism have slowly whittled away at constitutional ideals like personal liberty and the pursuit of happiness over the years, ingeniously finding ways to bypass them, find loopholes, etc..
My bad -- but my original point still stands. People that don't vote are the worse enemies of any state that democratically elects it's leaders.
Well, I thought my previous arguments might make you think twice about that conclusion, but apparently not. People don't vote because they don't believe in the system, feel powerless to change it, and are disillusioned by it. More about this later.
"So called freedom loving countries"? Do you have a problem with us?
Yes, I have a problem with it. I have a problem when countries that profess to love freedom are acting to extinquish freedoms at every opportunity. Not only the freedoms of their own citizens, but those of countries beyond their own boundaries too.
Have you ever read 1984? Look around you...
How aware you are of this kind of behavior is a matter of personal choice. For every example that I see, I'm sure there are a thousand other instances happening that I never find out about. I won't write a book about it here, but I assume you can think of a few pertinent examples yourself without my help.
Perhaps you should move to China or North Korea if you don't like "freedom loving countries".
I love freedom loving countries. Can you tell me about any? I can see millions of people that love freedom, and the best example of these people I can think of is the free software community. Most other people I know or have met offline also love their freedom. I don't know of any countries that practice anything close to it, though, all I see are more and more laws and restrictions and bigger and bigger governments.
Yes, I agree that the US or Europe or whatever is probably better than China or North Korea, but the distinction in my mind is not as clear as it is in yours. That's partly because I have never lived in these countries and know that what I have heard about them is colored by the media.
In the same spirit, I'd probably agree that Sun Microsystems is less evil that Microsoft. Doesn't mean I love Sun, nor do I want them to take over the world.
The world ain't black and white, nor goood vs. evil the way G.W. paints it to be.
I pity you for having no faith in our way of life.
You are not the only one. I pity myself too, and in a way envy you. I would love to have faith in it. I did, when I was younger but have seen too much injustice to hang on to that faith.
And I think that's the main difference between your opinion and mine: the crux of our debate. You believe in the system, at least partially. You believe it can work, even though you probably recognize that it's imperfect.
As for me, while I don't see everything as completely dark and depressing, I do not have anywhere near your hope and optimism about the world and politics.
There is too much concentration of power.
You probably can't understand that or think I'm brainwashed. Your loss.
No, I see where you're coming from, and I can see that you're not brainwa
People who think they don't have a voice and give up (by moving to Canada or even worse: not bothering to vote) are the true enemies of any democracy.
Enemies of democracy? Maybe democracy is my enemy..
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Freedom is about having choices. The choice to move to Canada is a choice to free yourself from what you see as other people's stupidity who somehow feels they can impose their morality on you.
Say, let's have a vote about what operating system you should use. Whatever America decides, you have to abide by. OK?
Let's see what you think then about you having a voice in your democracy. You against 300 million braindead MicroZombies. Yeah, I know, "you have trust in the intelligence and wisdom of the American people, its constitution, its justice system, its political system, and the principles of democracy", don't you?
For the record I wouldn't go if they reinstated a draft for Dubya's oil wars in Iraq. But I would go if I believed our way of life to be threatened or in danger.
Well, I guess the head of your democracy thought that his way of life was threatened. Shame on you for thinking otherwise, coward.
Now be a good patriot and go die in the name of producing more color TVs, operating systems, strong copyright laws and everything else that the democracy has decided on your behalf to hold dear. Truth, justice and the American way, isn't that what they call it?
And I would have the courage to stand up for what I believed in
Then stand stand up for for what you believe in. That's not the same thing as standing up for what some of your neighbors believe in -particulary those with loud voices, good connections, and lots of money to lobby for their own agenda.
The US, EU and other so-called freedom loving countries have become too large and powerful. They forcefully export their values into ever-larger spheres, leaving dissenting people with fewer and fewer alternatives in the world to escape to.
Our so-called coward is lucky at least to have a Canada to run to.
Do not confuse democracy with freedom. Democracy is nothing more than having a tiny say in who your dictator is.
The only vote that counts in my life is ME. Keep your lousy laws off my property.
The best democracy is a SMALL democracy. Just enough to keep a lid on the rapists and murderers and thieves of the world, and let everyone else live and let live.
There is no freedom in America, or anywhere else for that matter - except maybe in cyberspace (until they take over that too).
Governments everywhere are way too large and powerful. Same thing applies to multi-national companies like MicroSoft and others.
Why does everything on today's world have to be all or nothing?
Why can't I just go live on a farm somewhere and everyone leave me alone and stop making decisions for me? Leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone... Deal?
How can anyone expect 300 million people to all abide by the same rules? Especially when the rule book is big enough to fill up a library all by itself?
And people wonder why there there so many pissed-off terrorists in the world?
Slashdot Mirror
Actually that's why we have a Republic instead of a true democracy.
When I read that, I didn't know you meant. So I googled "republic democracy" and this is what I got on my first hit:
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3388
Which is one excellent article that basically repeats what I said about the evils of democracy.
IMHO, regardless what the US appears to be on paper, I say it is a democracy in practice - judging by tangible results. The principles embodied in the constitution, which I admire, mean little in today's world as they have not been upheld over time. If they had been respected, I wouldn't be complaining and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The forces of democracy along with a perverse form of capitalism have slowly whittled away at constitutional ideals like personal liberty and the pursuit of happiness over the years, ingeniously finding ways to bypass them, find loopholes, etc..
My bad -- but my original point still stands. People that don't vote are the worse enemies of any state that democratically elects it's leaders.
Well, I thought my previous arguments might make you think twice about that conclusion, but apparently not. People don't vote because they don't believe in the system, feel powerless to change it, and are disillusioned by it. More about this later.
"So called freedom loving countries"? Do you have a problem with us?
Yes, I have a problem with it. I have a problem when countries that profess to love freedom are acting to extinquish freedoms at every opportunity. Not only the freedoms of their own citizens, but those of countries beyond their own boundaries too.
Have you ever read 1984? Look around you...
How aware you are of this kind of behavior is a matter of personal choice. For every example that I see, I'm sure there are a thousand other instances happening that I never find out about. I won't write a book about it here, but I assume you can think of a few pertinent examples yourself without my help.
Perhaps you should move to China or North Korea if you don't like "freedom loving countries".
I love freedom loving countries. Can you tell me about any? I can see millions of people that love freedom, and the best example of these people I can think of is the free software community. Most other people I know or have met offline also love their freedom. I don't know of any countries that practice anything close to it, though, all I see are more and more laws and restrictions and bigger and bigger governments.
Yes, I agree that the US or Europe or whatever is probably better than China or North Korea, but the distinction in my mind is not as clear as it is in yours. That's partly because I have never lived in these countries and know that what I have heard about them is colored by the media.
In the same spirit, I'd probably agree that Sun Microsystems is less evil that Microsoft. Doesn't mean I love Sun, nor do I want them to take over the world.
The world ain't black and white, nor goood vs. evil the way G.W. paints it to be.
I pity you for having no faith in our way of life.
You are not the only one. I pity myself too, and in a way envy you. I would love to have faith in it. I did, when I was younger but have seen too much injustice to hang on to that faith.
And I think that's the main difference between your opinion and mine: the crux of our debate. You believe in the system, at least partially. You believe it can work, even though you probably recognize that it's imperfect.
As for me, while I don't see everything as completely dark and depressing, I do not have anywhere near your hope and optimism about the world and politics.
There is too much concentration of power.
You probably can't understand that or think I'm brainwashed. Your loss.
No, I see where you're coming from, and I can see that you're not brainwa
People who think they don't have a voice and give up (by moving to Canada or even worse: not bothering to vote) are the true enemies of any democracy.
Enemies of democracy? Maybe democracy is my enemy..
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Freedom is about having choices. The choice to move to Canada is a choice to free yourself from what you see as other people's stupidity who somehow feels they can impose their morality on you.
Say, let's have a vote about what operating system you should use. Whatever America decides, you have to abide by. OK?
Let's see what you think then about you having a voice in your democracy. You against 300 million braindead MicroZombies. Yeah, I know, "you have trust in the intelligence and wisdom of the American people, its constitution, its justice system, its political system, and the principles of democracy", don't you?
For the record I wouldn't go if they reinstated a draft for Dubya's oil wars in Iraq. But I would go if I believed our way of life to be threatened or in danger.
Well, I guess the head of your democracy thought that his way of life was threatened. Shame on you for thinking otherwise, coward.
Now be a good patriot and go die in the name of producing more color TVs, operating systems, strong copyright laws and everything else that the democracy has decided on your behalf to hold dear. Truth, justice and the American way, isn't that what they call it?
And I would have the courage to stand up for what I believed in
Then stand stand up for for what you believe in. That's not the same thing as standing up for what some of your neighbors believe in -particulary those with loud voices, good connections, and lots of money to lobby for their own agenda.
The US, EU and other so-called freedom loving countries have become too large and powerful. They forcefully export their values into ever-larger spheres, leaving dissenting people with fewer and fewer alternatives in the world to escape to.
Our so-called coward is lucky at least to have a Canada to run to.
Do not confuse democracy with freedom. Democracy is nothing more than having a tiny say in who your dictator is.
The only vote that counts in my life is ME. Keep your lousy laws off my property.
The best democracy is a SMALL democracy. Just enough to keep a lid on the rapists and murderers and thieves of the world, and let everyone else live and let live.
There is no freedom in America, or anywhere else for that matter - except maybe in cyberspace (until they take over that too).
Governments everywhere are way too large and powerful. Same thing applies to multi-national companies like MicroSoft and others.
Why does everything on today's world have to be all or nothing?
Why can't I just go live on a farm somewhere and everyone leave me alone and stop making decisions for me? Leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone... Deal?
How can anyone expect 300 million people to all abide by the same rules? Especially when the rule book is big enough to fill up a library all by itself?
And people wonder why there there so many pissed-off terrorists in the world?