Now that that's clarified....I understand where you're coming from completely. I wasn't trying to lump EVERYONE who opposes US policy into the same group...but it's quite clear that the majority of people jump on the anti-Bush bandwagon without doing even cursory research to verify the statements they're spewing. And it's not only them, there are certainly many right wingers who are guilty of it as well. My earlier statements apply equaly to both sides - don't be idiots, research your damn info logicaly and rationaly regaurdless of which "side" it comes from.
As to your complaints about "Washington's support for a whole host of quite horrible right-wing dictatorships in Chile, South Vietnam, South Africa", I'm also reminded of the anti-Bush crowd's support of a certain right-wing dictatoriship in a little place called Palestine:)
Both sides are willing to support...."less-than-perfect" regimes when it suits them. The world's not a perfect place.
I didn't mean to label anyone a Nazi with my analogy, I was just trying to illustrate how a hate-based system of beleifs can easily lead to murder and genocide, regaurdless of the facts. I could have made the same point using modern "fundamentalist" Islaamism, or right-wing Christians, or the Tamil Tigers, the KKK, the US "thug culture", etc. The Nazis are just the easiest to pick on.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, and for doing so in a civilized manner. It's always a pleasure to debate with those who can dicuss issues and facts instead of emotional faith-based rhetoric.
so get off your high-horse. I was simply stating that those who demonize the US while ignoring similar or worse acts by others are HYPOCRITES. It doesn't excuse the act, but the majority of the individuals opposing the US don't care about the act so much as the fact that it's the US that's doing it. I'm much less likely to listen to indoctrinated hypocrites than I am to reasonable individuals who wish to logicaly discuss a specific policy.
For one thing, if it's a manufacturers rebate, then under your model the store would have to front the rebate money because they still paid the regular price for the product. Which means that any time you have a manufacturers rebate on multiple items, the store is temporarily losing money. Might not be a huge impact, but it could be a problem for them.
Secondly, as others have pointed out, the fact that not everyone will claim the rebate allows companies to offer LARGER rebates. If all rebates were automaticaly claimed, you would never see a $120 HD with a $40 rebate, instead you'd get 5% off sales and the like. Small price decreases for everyone. Personaly, I'd much rather see big discounts for those willing to do the work, and no discount for those too lazy to do it. That's capitalism at it's best baby!:)
and I don't much feel like re-hashing the same old argument. I will however point out the hypocrisy inherent in demonizing America while ignoring the acts of much worse offenders. That's another aspect that the Modern Church of We Hate Bush has in common with other hate-based religions - they tend to blow all incidents out of proportion and ignore similar acts perpetrated by others.
Anyway, enough of that. I don't want to argue about Bush or US policies, I'm just imploring people not to let themselves be brainwashed by yet another cult. You have brains for a reason - use them. No, not just selectively. Don't turn them off when you see a "Bush kills kittens" sign. If you're going to question government policies and think of yourselves as "progressive" because of it, make sure you question anti-government rhetoric just as carefuly.
That's a BIG problem. Regaurdless of how you personaly feel about Bush and his administration, the REACTION to them has been sickening to say the least. Anti-Bush rhetoric has reached the level of an organized religion. Anything you hear that's critical of Bush, or, in the rest of the world, critical of the US, people tend to automaticaly beleive. They don't research it, they don't even question it, they just automaticaly assume it's true.
That sort of behaviour is not just ignorant, it's dangerous. It's like any other religion, any cult, or any hate-motivated beleif system. After a while it doesn't matter if somehting is true because everyone has already made up their minds. Even if one incident is proven conclusively to be false, the True Believers simply point to something else. And when THAT is proven to be false, they point to something else. Or they dismiss the opposition as "shills", or "paid government cronies". How the hell do you think the Nazi slaughter of the Jews happened? It didn't just happen overnight - it was a steady progression of sterotypes, lies, half-truths and misrepresentations of Jews that the German people just blindly accepted. After a while it built up it's own momentum to the point that nobody bothered to question anything negative that was said about the jews. It's THAT sort of atmosphere that allows massacres and genocides to take place.
Do you SERIOUSLY not see how patheticaly regressive that kind of behaviour is?
Jumping through hoops? Hardly. They ask you to cut out your UPC code and mail it out with the receipt. OHHHHH. Yep, I can see how that's a brutaly harsh request. They're like the goddamn gestapo.
Seriously, if you want a GOOD analogy, it would be more like me saying "you want a drink? great, kitchen's over there, go grab a beer".
Sure, it seems to you that it "serves no purpose" for me to send you to get your own damn beer, but chances are some of my guests will be fatasses too lazy to do it. Which means more beer for the rest of us! Now THERE's a worthwhile purpose.
That sure would be nice though, eh? It would make tracking down pedophiles a heck of a lot easier if they started suing eachother over copyright infringement.
Considering that the WMF vulnarability made it into WINE, Microsoft certainly doesn't have the monopoly for accepting blame.
Face it, when you're dealing with billions of lines of code, it's easy for a vulnarability to be overlooked. The only advantage Linux has over MS is the open development model. Microsoft can only hire a finite number of prgrammers to de-bug code, whereas with open development you theoreticaly have an infinite number of programmers, or rather, the every programmer alive, being able to contribute. That's it. If Linux was a closed model OS the way Windows is, and if it was more mainstream, you'd see many of the same problems popping up there.
So let's not demonize MS eh? They do a good enough job of making themselves look bad; it's not neccesary for every linux-geek in existance to join in the witch-hunt.
What's evil about it? You're telling me it's Evil to offer a rebate to someone while knowing that they probably won't take it?
So if I offer my guest a drink knowing he'll probably refuse, I'm evil? Man oh man, I'm going straight to hell.
The companies are offering you a deal. If you're too lazy to get off your fat ass and send them a letter, that's your problem, not theirs. What's with western society and the expectation of instant gratification? Very few things in this world will come to you without any effort.
Just keep in mind that the LAST great republic died not due to state oppression or misuse of powers, but largely due to increasingly liberal and hedonistic values amongst it's citizens, which also happened to be responsible for an unwillingness to serve in or support their military. It's a fine balancing act - if you tip the scales too far one way you get a fachist police state, if you tip them too far the opposite way you get a weak socialist nanny-state. Neither one will survive for long.
here are some more unconstitutional laws:
Requiring ID at the movie theater to verify age.
Requiring ID when buying alcohol
Requiring ID when buying cigarettes
Requiring ID when buying firearms
Requiring ID in order to get a drivers licence
and so on and so forth.
As has been pointed out, there's nothing unconstitutional about requiring someone to present their identification in order to get access to a service. What WOULD be unconstitutional is if you could be arrested for the "crime" of deciding not to show your ID.
In other words, say I go to buy beer, or a movie ticket, or board a plane. The clerk asks me for ID, I say no and attempt to walk out. A cop tackles me and drags me off to jail, based solely on the fact that I did not present my ID. THAT would be unconstitutional. As long as I still have the right to say no and walk away, none of my rights are being violated.
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First off, I'm Canadian :)
:)
Now that that's clarified....I understand where you're coming from completely. I wasn't trying to lump EVERYONE who opposes US policy into the same group...but it's quite clear that the majority of people jump on the anti-Bush bandwagon without doing even cursory research to verify the statements they're spewing. And it's not only them, there are certainly many right wingers who are guilty of it as well. My earlier statements apply equaly to both sides - don't be idiots, research your damn info logicaly and rationaly regaurdless of which "side" it comes from.
As to your complaints about "Washington's support for a whole host of quite horrible right-wing dictatorships in Chile, South Vietnam, South Africa", I'm also reminded of the anti-Bush crowd's support of a certain right-wing dictatoriship in a little place called Palestine
Both sides are willing to support...."less-than-perfect" regimes when it suits them. The world's not a perfect place.
I didn't mean to label anyone a Nazi with my analogy, I was just trying to illustrate how a hate-based system of beleifs can easily lead to murder and genocide, regaurdless of the facts. I could have made the same point using modern "fundamentalist" Islaamism, or right-wing Christians, or the Tamil Tigers, the KKK, the US "thug culture", etc. The Nazis are just the easiest to pick on.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, and for doing so in a civilized manner. It's always a pleasure to debate with those who can dicuss issues and facts instead of emotional faith-based rhetoric.
so get off your high-horse. I was simply stating that those who demonize the US while ignoring similar or worse acts by others are HYPOCRITES. It doesn't excuse the act, but the majority of the individuals opposing the US don't care about the act so much as the fact that it's the US that's doing it. I'm much less likely to listen to indoctrinated hypocrites than I am to reasonable individuals who wish to logicaly discuss a specific policy.
but you're partialy wrong.
:)
For one thing, if it's a manufacturers rebate, then under your model the store would have to front the rebate money because they still paid the regular price for the product. Which means that any time you have a manufacturers rebate on multiple items, the store is temporarily losing money. Might not be a huge impact, but it could be a problem for them.
Secondly, as others have pointed out, the fact that not everyone will claim the rebate allows companies to offer LARGER rebates. If all rebates were automaticaly claimed, you would never see a $120 HD with a $40 rebate, instead you'd get 5% off sales and the like. Small price decreases for everyone. Personaly, I'd much rather see big discounts for those willing to do the work, and no discount for those too lazy to do it. That's capitalism at it's best baby!
and I don't much feel like re-hashing the same old argument. I will however point out the hypocrisy inherent in demonizing America while ignoring the acts of much worse offenders. That's another aspect that the Modern Church of We Hate Bush has in common with other hate-based religions - they tend to blow all incidents out of proportion and ignore similar acts perpetrated by others.
Anyway, enough of that. I don't want to argue about Bush or US policies, I'm just imploring people not to let themselves be brainwashed by yet another cult. You have brains for a reason - use them. No, not just selectively. Don't turn them off when you see a "Bush kills kittens" sign. If you're going to question government policies and think of yourselves as "progressive" because of it, make sure you question anti-government rhetoric just as carefuly.
That's a BIG problem. Regaurdless of how you personaly feel about Bush and his administration, the REACTION to them has been sickening to say the least. Anti-Bush rhetoric has reached the level of an organized religion. Anything you hear that's critical of Bush, or, in the rest of the world, critical of the US, people tend to automaticaly beleive. They don't research it, they don't even question it, they just automaticaly assume it's true.
That sort of behaviour is not just ignorant, it's dangerous. It's like any other religion, any cult, or any hate-motivated beleif system. After a while it doesn't matter if somehting is true because everyone has already made up their minds. Even if one incident is proven conclusively to be false, the True Believers simply point to something else. And when THAT is proven to be false, they point to something else. Or they dismiss the opposition as "shills", or "paid government cronies". How the hell do you think the Nazi slaughter of the Jews happened? It didn't just happen overnight - it was a steady progression of sterotypes, lies, half-truths and misrepresentations of Jews that the German people just blindly accepted. After a while it built up it's own momentum to the point that nobody bothered to question anything negative that was said about the jews. It's THAT sort of atmosphere that allows massacres and genocides to take place.
Do you SERIOUSLY not see how patheticaly regressive that kind of behaviour is?
Jumping through hoops? Hardly. They ask you to cut out your UPC code and mail it out with the receipt. OHHHHH. Yep, I can see how that's a brutaly harsh request. They're like the goddamn gestapo.
Seriously, if you want a GOOD analogy, it would be more like me saying "you want a drink? great, kitchen's over there, go grab a beer".
Sure, it seems to you that it "serves no purpose" for me to send you to get your own damn beer, but chances are some of my guests will be fatasses too lazy to do it. Which means more beer for the rest of us! Now THERE's a worthwhile purpose.
That sure would be nice though, eh? It would make tracking down pedophiles a heck of a lot easier if they started suing eachother over copyright infringement.
Considering that the WMF vulnarability made it into WINE, Microsoft certainly doesn't have the monopoly for accepting blame. Face it, when you're dealing with billions of lines of code, it's easy for a vulnarability to be overlooked. The only advantage Linux has over MS is the open development model. Microsoft can only hire a finite number of prgrammers to de-bug code, whereas with open development you theoreticaly have an infinite number of programmers, or rather, the every programmer alive, being able to contribute. That's it. If Linux was a closed model OS the way Windows is, and if it was more mainstream, you'd see many of the same problems popping up there. So let's not demonize MS eh? They do a good enough job of making themselves look bad; it's not neccesary for every linux-geek in existance to join in the witch-hunt.
What's evil about it? You're telling me it's Evil to offer a rebate to someone while knowing that they probably won't take it?
So if I offer my guest a drink knowing he'll probably refuse, I'm evil? Man oh man, I'm going straight to hell.
The companies are offering you a deal. If you're too lazy to get off your fat ass and send them a letter, that's your problem, not theirs. What's with western society and the expectation of instant gratification? Very few things in this world will come to you without any effort.
Just keep in mind that the LAST great republic died not due to state oppression or misuse of powers, but largely due to increasingly liberal and hedonistic values amongst it's citizens, which also happened to be responsible for an unwillingness to serve in or support their military. It's a fine balancing act - if you tip the scales too far one way you get a fachist police state, if you tip them too far the opposite way you get a weak socialist nanny-state. Neither one will survive for long.
here are some more unconstitutional laws: Requiring ID at the movie theater to verify age. Requiring ID when buying alcohol Requiring ID when buying cigarettes Requiring ID when buying firearms Requiring ID in order to get a drivers licence and so on and so forth. As has been pointed out, there's nothing unconstitutional about requiring someone to present their identification in order to get access to a service. What WOULD be unconstitutional is if you could be arrested for the "crime" of deciding not to show your ID. In other words, say I go to buy beer, or a movie ticket, or board a plane. The clerk asks me for ID, I say no and attempt to walk out. A cop tackles me and drags me off to jail, based solely on the fact that I did not present my ID. THAT would be unconstitutional. As long as I still have the right to say no and walk away, none of my rights are being violated.