From a strictly theoretical perspective the answer would be yes. However, for an experimental and physical indication of reality of how carbon dioxide acts to produce its effects is now so thoroughly understood that it would be foolish to deny the easily computable results of any model that seriously attempts to predict system behaviors and defy the highly probable and extremely harmful outcomes of failing to understand the basics of atmospheric physics or its immediate biological consequences.
Eradicating plagues is hardly artificial or unnatural. One only has to look to the evolution of the ascomycetous genus Pencillum and use of this fact by Homo sapiens to see that. At least you are free to argue in the face of mathematical absurdity of assuming a false premise and being able to conclude both truth and falsity, without knowledge of either. Clearly, you need another premise.
is whether we can figure out a way to avoid it as we go about destroying it through lack of knowledge about biology and planetary science on the part of the average citizen.
Yet at a time, we need even more scientists, republicans are slashing funds for education at all levels from pre-K on the Mississippi Delta to graduate study at the world's most prestigious universities. However, people shouldn't look to the media to educate themselves. After all, whats the point, if you've just enrolled in the School of Hard Knocks.
Jogging to the left at times, particularly when you may be stepping of a cliff on your right, can be great for survival, assuming of course that survival is even any longer an option for any of us for long. A couple of hundred years as a species, if we are lucky?
From the perspective of a professional biologist, let us only hope we can soon find our wits rather than our glaringly obvious limits.
There has been so much to the degradation of the natural world by humanity, that there can be little doubt in anyone's mind that the relative fragile and brittle, biotic skin of life that we depend on for own own sustenance and that of our families has been greatly diminished over the age of human presence.
We like to think of passing on our genes to the next generation, perpetuating our own mortality as it were. Although this will be the closest we can ever get to immortality, the unfortunate answer to the question we must now ponder, thanks to our collective thoughtless, is whether those of our children be even able to survive in the future. Of course, we will be gone before we find out. That seems like such a hollow epitaph for humanity.
So are you saying that carbon dioxide does not absorb energy in the infrared of the spectrum in the form of vibrate causing a general warming of the atmosphere by accelerating the speed of molecular collisions as a result of Newton's Second Law of Thermodynamics?
Because if you are, either you will find it impossible to explain yourself or will soon be awarded the Nobel Prize in physics for predicting something that all physicists are in complete agreement on.
So the only thing this would accomplish is forcing Comcast making it clear that thousands of residents have no expectation of internet service.
You can't expect people to fund other people's internet access for free and the constitution prohibits bills of attainder of the type you are attempting to write anyway, so your approach is moot before it even gets of the ground.
Much better is to find ways to actually create competition in markets like Kitsap County that doesn't actually have any.
The answer is not a "corporate death penalty", but rather real, honest to goodness competition in a free market, which in places like Kitsap County, we don't really have because we have a monopoly provider.
What we need is a community based, lowcost collective reseller of already existing KPUD internet services to act as a competitor of last resort, rather than the Comcast monopoly that exists by default (and of course, by design).
Makes no sense. Comcast is the only Internet cable provider in the area for many locations. You would just be disconnecting thousands of users from the internet, just to be hard nosed, not that I have any particular eagerness to pay Comcast their exorbitant prices.
Instead, I suggest Kitsap County residents form their own corporation to act as a reseller of KPUD internet. That way local communities will have more control over their installation and prices. It could operate as a "for profit collective". It can use the same utility easements that Comcast now uses to service its customers and individual households can pay 1) for the line on their side of the plug at the curb and 2) the amount of internet service they use at a price set by the collective, which they would have a voice in establishing.
Fining the Cable Companies won't get very far as they simply have enough cash to buy all the politicians they need to stay ahead of the curve, particularly since they only need about 1/3 of the politicians to stymie any positive solution.
However, there is an interesting twist to this and being a resident of Kitsap county it has made me curious.
Under state law, the KPUD (Kitsap Public Utility District) can not sell its internet connections directly to customers, but must sell to resellers. The question then becomes, how can citizens of Kitsap County organize into an effective collective for the purposes of "resale" directly to other citizens within the community?
What are the requirements for becoming a "reseller" as far as KPUD. One could envision a corporation that is created by those who want to buy a share and then access can be sold directly by the corporation to Kitsap County residents no longer interested in paying high fees to Comcast for access. I figure I am an average Comcast user. I pay about $250 per month for their service, which in my case uses their TV and phone platforms. For internet I pay about $50, but if I drop the TV and phone I get to pay about $85-100 for exactly the same internet service. If I could pay about $35 for 1G/sec internet (I know get 50MB/sec), it would be a good deal as far as I am concerned and I suspect that with the money made the new citizens corporation could maintain the service and expand to cover new users, as well as finally give Comcast some competition, which they currently lack.
The advantage of this approach is that it could be done county wide, so Kitsap County users wouldn't have to fight Comcast in every county in the state, just to see competition in Kitsap county.
Are there any other Kitsap county residents thinking the same thing I am thinking? If so, please respond. Maybe something worthwhile can come of this story.
"But the amounts being divested are too small to flood the market and cut share prices, so they won’t be going cheap."
Clearly, you don't understand how stock markets work. The value of a stock is merely that of its last trade. Convince someone you have a stock that is going higher and you have a buyer. Convince them it is going lower and you have more sellers and fewer buyers. The number of shares traded don't matter, merely the last trade made.
As divestment picks up steam, not to mention all the inconvenient truths about the "other" costs of burning fossil fuels and soon you have more people expecting that the prices will fall. This is of importance in that as the price falls it exacerbates the problem of too much capacity without sufficient buyers or consumers further driving expectations. Stock value is not something that is intrinsic to a stock, it is something that is entirely created by perceptions. The perception has long been that fossil fuels are "black gold". More and more people are coming to perceive that they can also likely represent a "black future".
Yes, but the cost of pollution is practically free to those who produce it. Just look at New Jersey. It just takes a little persuading of those with potential campaign contributions to launder.
This is a fallacy. There is no net difference in number of shares or the total population, but the value changes dramatically. Given the way our markets are structured, that value is based entirely on the last trade made. Stock investing is like the game of musical chairs in that its great if you have ownership of a chair and chairs are highly prized. However, if billions of people doesn't own a chair, then they tends to value chairs and the game differently, usually by going off and playing an entirely new game.
The assets remain the same, but their value does not. In a way, as the value changes, so does how people regard the assets.
It all really comes down to a question of values. Those who think something is valuable will want more, particularly if they perceive that its value will rise in the future. The reverse is also true and those who think leaving the fossil fuels in the ground so humans have a planet that still supports human life will also value fossil fuels, but in an entirely different way.
That is one of the reasons a divestment strategy in fossil fuels is a good idea. It reduces the profits for those who think they earn an easy profit by producing and burning it and that money can instead, as you suggest, be invested in developing human friendlier alternatives.
Of course it must be lie. It can't be getting hotter, which explains why all the world's glaciers are simultaneously melting faster than at any time previously recorded.
Makes one wonder, if its not getting hotter, why is all that ice melting? Why are sea levels rising? Surely those who believe that catastrophic man-made global warming is just a big lie, must have some explanation. One that has a shred of credibility to it. Of course, that would be asking too much.
The reality is global climate change is very much an energy issue and one that will fundamentally change how humans use and produce energy or it will end humanity for sure, primarily by making the environment they take for granted disappear before their eyes.
", just some lucky guy(s) will get to buy them at a discounted price."
This, of course, assumes that fossil fuels stocks will continue to rise even as competition from alternative sources intensified, and as costs of production increase.
The problem for this scenario is that it is becoming less and less likely that this will happen, so if one gets out of old energy and into new energy, one's rate of return will be far greater over time, particular as the planetary global mean temperature moves from +2 deg C, at which we are nearly at to +4 deg C over the next 100-150 years. Coal is already declining as a percentage of the total energy mix, oil will be soon to follow. That light at the end of the tunnel the coal investor may see will be that of an oncoming electric train. Better to get out now and let the suckers hold the bag.
One has to keep in mind that rate of planetary warming is accelerating with increased CO2 accumulation and the rate is exponential (its already now 36 times faster than the warming that occurred during the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, that brought palm trees to Northern Wyoming). Folks in place like Phoenix will soon (next 10-25 years) start to see more than 50 days out of the year with temperatures over 110 F. In 50 years time that will jump to 100 days out of the year.
The same driving forces also will soon profoundly affect the availability of another highly sought resource, freshwater.
Not really. Rather its a question of what people value on a relative scale. The value of money is only the common denominator.
When the climate begins to become too unstable to support agriculture, people's values will shift. With California now producing a major share of the fruits and vegetables produced in the US about to go dry (both in melt and groundwater, perhaps as yearly as 1 or 2 years), people's thinking will shift dramatically a lot sooner than most people realize. Midwesterners too are likely to take note, when population pressures in Colorado, coupled with the severely decreasing snowfalls that are coming, cause them to start drying up the headwaters of many of the rivers that flow into the Mississippi and as they watch their own water tables drop further.
Sure it might not happen, but the odds are becoming smaller and smaller every year. That's the problem with those inconvenient truths that will weigh so heavily on fossil fuel profits.
"nothing kills an industry like low prices and near ubiquity."
The problem is of course, the 800 pound gorilla of carbon dioxide pollution in the room. Its the inconvenient truth around which you can try to fake it, but the reality of it is now just starting to bite.
Sure some folks in Phoenix will still be buying gasoline when the temperatures in summer routinely hit 130 F, but you can be sure not many people will be happy about it. The reality is that politics might shift the costs of fossil fuels but it won't prevent those into coastal real estate from taking a bath. All indications are a 2 ft rise in sea level before 2060, not really that far off, when you are talking about assets that aren't going anywhere.
The reality is that the smart money is now with those who divest in fossil fuels first and put their earnings in alternative energy stocks will be the big winners and those who are left holding fossil fuel stocks until they finally collapse the big losers, which rather than a complete collapse will be like a leaky tire, loosing its value steadily over time, while production costs continue to climb. State investment funds, universities, and trusts in progressive states are already lightening up on fossil fuels, so their shareholders will come out ahead. When things are going south, as they now are for the fossil fuels industry, its always best to be out the door before the other guy figures out what is happening. By the time the negative outflows reach about 5% it will probably be too late for most to divest.
With the price of crude set to fall, some like CITI Bank say into the $30/barrel range, as current inventories increase to maximum capacity in about 3-6 months forcing excess supply onto the open market, alternative energy stocks will also take a hit, but unlike fossil fuel stocks, it will be an excellent opportunity to buy them as they will increase at a relatively more rapid pace than fossil fuels will recover, if they ever recover. At the current rate of increases in efficiency in production and operation of solar and wind, look for 2017-2019 to be the time when it solar and wind to be be cheaper than fossil fuels, no matter how much crude is on the market.
Get out of fossil fuel stocks while you still have a profit and leave others holding the bag.
The thing I like about the new FCC rules is that if the ISP's want to give preferential high speeds to some of its customers to distinguish themselves from their competitors, they will have to do it for all of their customers. This will foster competition among ISP's to finally provide faster speeds, rather than simply pocketing all the excess fees given to promote connectivity, but little used for that purpose.
I can't wait for the first ISP to claim they are the fastest. This is the quickest way toward observing the Red Queen Hypothesis in action.
The Wyoming rule sounds attractive by the modern GOP would never let California have another 13 additional seats. However, given the nature of Wyoming, why not go all the way and require that all congressional districts be simply "at-large". This would eliminate all the gerrymandering as well. If congressional candidates can campaign state wide in Alaska, there is no reason all the rest couldn't do it as well.
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It is incredible how so many in the evangelical right are so susceptible to homosexuality.
Well, it is now that they changed it.
Me? I'm just glad to hear that Carly Fiorina has decided to run for the presidency of Algeria so as not to appear as a hypocrite.
From a strictly theoretical perspective the answer would be yes. However, for an experimental and physical indication of reality of how carbon dioxide acts to produce its effects is now so thoroughly understood that it would be foolish to deny the easily computable results of any model that seriously attempts to predict system behaviors and defy the highly probable and extremely harmful outcomes of failing to understand the basics of atmospheric physics or its immediate biological consequences.
Eradicating plagues is hardly artificial or unnatural. One only has to look to the evolution of the ascomycetous genus Pencillum and use of this fact by Homo sapiens to see that. At least you are free to argue in the face of mathematical absurdity of assuming a false premise and being able to conclude both truth and falsity, without knowledge of either. Clearly, you need another premise.
is whether we can figure out a way to avoid it as we go about destroying it through lack of knowledge about biology and planetary science on the part of the average citizen.
Yet at a time, we need even more scientists, republicans are slashing funds for education at all levels from pre-K on the Mississippi Delta to graduate study at the world's most prestigious universities. However, people shouldn't look to the media to educate themselves. After all, whats the point, if you've just enrolled in the School of Hard Knocks.
Do you think if we save some of our own DNA, the robots of the future will even want us back?
Jogging to the left at times, particularly when you may be stepping of a cliff on your right, can be great for survival, assuming of course that survival is even any longer an option for any of us for long. A couple of hundred years as a species, if we are lucky?
From the perspective of a professional biologist, let us only hope we can soon find our wits rather than our glaringly obvious limits.
There has been so much to the degradation of the natural world by humanity, that there can be little doubt in anyone's mind that the relative fragile and brittle, biotic skin of life that we depend on for own own sustenance and that of our families has been greatly diminished over the age of human presence.
We like to think of passing on our genes to the next generation, perpetuating our own mortality as it were. Although this will be the closest we can ever get to immortality, the unfortunate answer to the question we must now ponder, thanks to our collective thoughtless, is whether those of our children be even able to survive in the future. Of course, we will be gone before we find out. That seems like such a hollow epitaph for humanity.
So are you saying that carbon dioxide does not absorb energy in the infrared of the spectrum in the form of vibrate causing a general warming of the atmosphere by accelerating the speed of molecular collisions as a result of Newton's Second Law of Thermodynamics?
Because if you are, either you will find it impossible to explain yourself or will soon be awarded the Nobel Prize in physics for predicting something that all physicists are in complete agreement on.
So the only thing this would accomplish is forcing Comcast making it clear that thousands of residents have no expectation of internet service.
You can't expect people to fund other people's internet access for free and the constitution prohibits bills of attainder of the type you are attempting to write anyway, so your approach is moot before it even gets of the ground.
Much better is to find ways to actually create competition in markets like Kitsap County that doesn't actually have any.
The answer is not a "corporate death penalty", but rather real, honest to goodness competition in a free market, which in places like Kitsap County, we don't really have because we have a monopoly provider.
What we need is a community based, lowcost collective reseller of already existing KPUD internet services to act as a competitor of last resort, rather than the Comcast monopoly that exists by default (and of course, by design).
Makes no sense. Comcast is the only Internet cable provider in the area for many locations. You would just be disconnecting thousands of users from the internet, just to be hard nosed, not that I have any particular eagerness to pay Comcast their exorbitant prices.
Instead, I suggest Kitsap County residents form their own corporation to act as a reseller of KPUD internet. That way local communities will have more control over their installation and prices. It could operate as a "for profit collective". It can use the same utility easements that Comcast now uses to service its customers and individual households can pay 1) for the line on their side of the plug at the curb and 2) the amount of internet service they use at a price set by the collective, which they would have a voice in establishing.
Fining the Cable Companies won't get very far as they simply have enough cash to buy all the politicians they need to stay ahead of the curve, particularly since they only need about 1/3 of the politicians to stymie any positive solution.
However, there is an interesting twist to this and being a resident of Kitsap county it has made me curious.
Under state law, the KPUD (Kitsap Public Utility District) can not sell its internet connections directly to customers, but must sell to resellers. The question then becomes, how can citizens of Kitsap County organize into an effective collective for the purposes of "resale" directly to other citizens within the community?
What are the requirements for becoming a "reseller" as far as KPUD. One could envision a corporation that is created by those who want to buy a share and then access can be sold directly by the corporation to Kitsap County residents no longer interested in paying high fees to Comcast for access. I figure I am an average Comcast user. I pay about $250 per month for their service, which in my case uses their TV and phone platforms. For internet I pay about $50, but if I drop the TV and phone I get to pay about $85-100 for exactly the same internet service. If I could pay about $35 for 1G/sec internet (I know get 50MB/sec), it would be a good deal as far as I am concerned and I suspect that with the money made the new citizens corporation could maintain the service and expand to cover new users, as well as finally give Comcast some competition, which they currently lack.
The advantage of this approach is that it could be done county wide, so Kitsap County users wouldn't have to fight Comcast in every county in the state, just to see competition in Kitsap county.
Are there any other Kitsap county residents thinking the same thing I am thinking? If so, please respond. Maybe something worthwhile can come of this story.
"But the amounts being divested are too small to flood the market and cut share prices, so they won’t be going cheap."
Clearly, you don't understand how stock markets work. The value of a stock is merely that of its last trade. Convince someone you have a stock that is going higher and you have a buyer. Convince them it is going lower and you have more sellers and fewer buyers. The number of shares traded don't matter, merely the last trade made.
As divestment picks up steam, not to mention all the inconvenient truths about the "other" costs of burning fossil fuels and soon you have more people expecting that the prices will fall. This is of importance in that as the price falls it exacerbates the problem of too much capacity without sufficient buyers or consumers further driving expectations. Stock value is not something that is intrinsic to a stock, it is something that is entirely created by perceptions. The perception has long been that fossil fuels are "black gold". More and more people are coming to perceive that they can also likely represent a "black future".
Yes, but the cost of pollution is practically free to those who produce it. Just look at New Jersey. It just takes a little persuading of those with potential campaign contributions to launder.
" no net difference"
This is a fallacy. There is no net difference in number of shares or the total population, but the value changes dramatically. Given the way our markets are structured, that value is based entirely on the last trade made. Stock investing is like the game of musical chairs in that its great if you have ownership of a chair and chairs are highly prized. However, if billions of people doesn't own a chair, then they tends to value chairs and the game differently, usually by going off and playing an entirely new game.
The same way one sells a bad idea, although it is always a better idea to have a good idea rather than a bad one to sell.
The inconvenient truth is that burning fossil fuels is a bad idea, which if unchecked, will put an end to all ideas, at least those made by humans.
"net assets remain the same,"
The assets remain the same, but their value does not. In a way, as the value changes, so does how people regard the assets.
It all really comes down to a question of values. Those who think something is valuable will want more, particularly if they perceive that its value will rise in the future. The reverse is also true and those who think leaving the fossil fuels in the ground so humans have a planet that still supports human life will also value fossil fuels, but in an entirely different way.
That is one of the reasons a divestment strategy in fossil fuels is a good idea. It reduces the profits for those who think they earn an easy profit by producing and burning it and that money can instead, as you suggest, be invested in developing human friendlier alternatives.
Of course it must be lie. It can't be getting hotter, which explains why all the world's glaciers are simultaneously melting faster than at any time previously recorded.
Makes one wonder, if its not getting hotter, why is all that ice melting? Why are sea levels rising? Surely those who believe that catastrophic man-made global warming is just a big lie, must have some explanation. One that has a shred of credibility to it. Of course, that would be asking too much.
The reality is global climate change is very much an energy issue and one that will fundamentally change how humans use and produce energy or it will end humanity for sure, primarily by making the environment they take for granted disappear before their eyes.
", just some lucky guy(s) will get to buy them at a discounted price."
This, of course, assumes that fossil fuels stocks will continue to rise even as competition from alternative sources intensified, and as costs of production increase.
The problem for this scenario is that it is becoming less and less likely that this will happen, so if one gets out of old energy and into new energy, one's rate of return will be far greater over time, particular as the planetary global mean temperature moves from +2 deg C, at which we are nearly at to +4 deg C over the next 100-150 years. Coal is already declining as a percentage of the total energy mix, oil will be soon to follow. That light at the end of the tunnel the coal investor may see will be that of an oncoming electric train. Better to get out now and let the suckers hold the bag.
One has to keep in mind that rate of planetary warming is accelerating with increased CO2 accumulation and the rate is exponential (its already now 36 times faster than the warming that occurred during the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, that brought palm trees to Northern Wyoming). Folks in place like Phoenix will soon (next 10-25 years) start to see more than 50 days out of the year with temperatures over 110 F. In 50 years time that will jump to 100 days out of the year.
The same driving forces also will soon profoundly affect the availability of another highly sought resource, freshwater.
Not really. Rather its a question of what people value on a relative scale. The value of money is only the common denominator.
When the climate begins to become too unstable to support agriculture, people's values will shift. With California now producing a major share of the fruits and vegetables produced in the US about to go dry (both in melt and groundwater, perhaps as yearly as 1 or 2 years), people's thinking will shift dramatically a lot sooner than most people realize. Midwesterners too are likely to take note, when population pressures in Colorado, coupled with the severely decreasing snowfalls that are coming, cause them to start drying up the headwaters of many of the rivers that flow into the Mississippi and as they watch their own water tables drop further.
Sure it might not happen, but the odds are becoming smaller and smaller every year. That's the problem with those inconvenient truths that will weigh so heavily on fossil fuel profits.
"nothing kills an industry like low prices and near ubiquity."
The problem is of course, the 800 pound gorilla of carbon dioxide pollution in the room. Its the inconvenient truth around which you can try to fake it, but the reality of it is now just starting to bite.
Sure some folks in Phoenix will still be buying gasoline when the temperatures in summer routinely hit 130 F, but you can be sure not many people will be happy about it. The reality is that politics might shift the costs of fossil fuels but it won't prevent those into coastal real estate from taking a bath. All indications are a 2 ft rise in sea level before 2060, not really that far off, when you are talking about assets that aren't going anywhere.
The reality is that the smart money is now with those who divest in fossil fuels first and put their earnings in alternative energy stocks will be the big winners and those who are left holding fossil fuel stocks until they finally collapse the big losers, which rather than a complete collapse will be like a leaky tire, loosing its value steadily over time, while production costs continue to climb. State investment funds, universities, and trusts in progressive states are already lightening up on fossil fuels, so their shareholders will come out ahead. When things are going south, as they now are for the fossil fuels industry, its always best to be out the door before the other guy figures out what is happening. By the time the negative outflows reach about 5% it will probably be too late for most to divest.
With the price of crude set to fall, some like CITI Bank say into the $30/barrel range, as current inventories increase to maximum capacity in about 3-6 months forcing excess supply onto the open market, alternative energy stocks will also take a hit, but unlike fossil fuel stocks, it will be an excellent opportunity to buy them as they will increase at a relatively more rapid pace than fossil fuels will recover, if they ever recover. At the current rate of increases in efficiency in production and operation of solar and wind, look for 2017-2019 to be the time when it solar and wind to be be cheaper than fossil fuels, no matter how much crude is on the market.
Get out of fossil fuel stocks while you still have a profit and leave others holding the bag.
The thing I like about the new FCC rules is that if the ISP's want to give preferential high speeds to some of its customers to distinguish themselves from their competitors, they will have to do it for all of their customers. This will foster competition among ISP's to finally provide faster speeds, rather than simply pocketing all the excess fees given to promote connectivity, but little used for that purpose.
I can't wait for the first ISP to claim they are the fastest. This is the quickest way toward observing the Red Queen Hypothesis in action.
The Wyoming rule sounds attractive by the modern GOP would never let California have another 13 additional seats. However, given the nature of Wyoming, why not go all the way and require that all congressional districts be simply "at-large". This would eliminate all the gerrymandering as well. If congressional candidates can campaign state wide in Alaska, there is no reason all the rest couldn't do it as well.
Unfortunately, the Constitution doesn't provide much guidance concerning internet regulations. Damn thoughtless of the Founding Fathers.