"at all the data not just that that proves global warming"
Just what temperature data are you talking about? All those collected by Martian scientists who are withholding it because they are in a secret conspiracy with Al Gore?
"the ice-masses have shifted not shrunk"
Do yourself a favor take a look at the past few years of peak Arctic ice cover over the past few decades from satellite data, rather than simply bearing false witness.
"the pole has shifted, the ice masses moved with it" Really, please provide the source for signficant movement of the pole within the last 50 years.
"sea levels have remained basically unchanged" You might want to spend a little time perusing Science and Nature magazines, as opposed to bearing false witness.
"none of the tale tell signs are actually happening"
Then perhaps, you have another explanation for why nearly all glaciers on the planet are receding rather than only about 50% or less. I would love to hear it. Please provide sources, better yet provide data.
Probably about 10-20 years of declines in GLOBAL MEAN TEMPERATURE would disprove the global warming/CO2 theory. Unfortunately, for the climate change deniers, not to mention most of the rest of us, there is a vanishingly small probability of that happening, considering that most of the highest GLOBAL MEAN TEMPERATURES have been recorded in the past decade and CO2 production continues to increase each year.
"They are now pissed off to find out it was all bogus,They are now pissed off to find out it was all bogus,"
Funny but few there likely share your certainty. Evidenditly, they are too busy focusing on overcoming problems associated with rising sea levels, increasingly erratic monsoons, and declines in glacial meltwater.
Its not exactly as if climate only takes place in the US and therefore only US scientists are able to study the phenomenon and know something about it. Frankly, these days, if you look at ANY science, its global in the sense that contributors to peer reviewed journals many of which are published outside of the US are from many countries, not just the USA. With the decline of our economy and the rise of the "no more taxes crowd", funding in the US for education, particularly science education, is diminishing. Consequently, one will see more and more of the scientific frontier move from the US to other countries. Its already happened in subatomic physics, with the LHC and some areas of molecular biology.
Nonetheless, it is ironic that folks in Utah are now on record as voicing skepticism of climate change. Utah is one of the most arid states in the US. Given its location, nearly all existing climate models predict for Utah and other central-continental locations, increasing aridity and significantly higher temperatures. These folks are setting themselves up to die of thirst but the sad part of it, assuming you don't have anything against mormons, is that by the time they come to their collective senses, it will be too late for them to do substantially much about it.
is that these days both work for the same corporate masters, too often as in the case of Senator Shelby foreign masters at a foreign defense contractor or in the case of Senators from Oklahoma, the Saudi Royal family, Hugo Chavez, and British Petroleum.
Don't hold your breath hoping that you won't find yourself between the punch as they exchange blows. You might do well to be fast on your feet and do a lot of bobbing and weaving.
Shelby definitely over reached on this one. Now he has placed in jeopardy every piece of legislation about to provide a dollar to a red state district. The reverberations of his action are only beginning to be felt.
Republicans are about to be very much unloved by their constituencies for saying no all the time to progress.
It looks as if Red States and red districts are about to help America balance its budget deficits. Perhaps this is only just, since it was republican profligacy that created so much of the deficit much in the first place.
Well not being from Alabama, but being the one paying for too much of the Alabama pork, I am opposed to further pork for Huntsville. That money needs to be diverted to other more needy projects.
I would encourage all readers to write their Senators and demand that all pork going to Alabama be immediately suspended and that the money be used to either pay down the deficit or go to projects much more needed in their home states rather than to foreign defense contractors, who use Huntsville as to base their corporate subsidiary.
Its ironic that Senator Shelby turns out to be a socialist in capitalist clothing, looking for a federal handout rather than supporting privatization that was supposed to the the hallmark of the republican approach to budgeting. Now that Obama wants to privatize the system, he's against it. The only thing consistent about republicans is that they continue to want everyone to do it their way.
Well Senator Shelby made the mistake of poking the wrong politician in the eye with a sharp stick and it looks as if Alabamaians are going to pay the price of not electing a wiser senator.
I for one have asked by Senator to place a hold on budget for creating more pork in an FBI counter terrorism center in Alabama. It would simply duplicate programs elsewhere and increase our budget deficit. Likewise, I would encourage others to write their Senators to find other federal projects in Alabama that can be privatized and save taxpayers in 49 other states a lot of money.
Thank you Senator Shelby for pointing out where our Senators can save federal tax dollars by not wasting them in Alabama.
I applaud Senator Shelby of giving every democrat in the Senate, especially those on the appropriations committee, an open invitation to remove Alabama's pork from the budget and stuff it into their own budgetary earmarks, especially those going to my home state, since after all what you say must be true. In doing so, the will of the majority will be served, even if it does come at the expense of foreign defense contractors who hire a few Alabamians.
Its now open season on Red States that have two sitting republican senators! We can now all watch America's budget get balanced. Perhaps this is a fitting way to make those who supported the republican philosophy of borrow and spend bear the burden of their profligacy.
Now that Senator Shelby has fired the first shot, let the battle of the budget begin. Alabamaians, Mississippian, Texans, Oklahomans, they love their guns so they will enjoy the hunt to root out "waste, fraud, and abuse".
And yes I have written my senators demanding that they place holds on any more federal monies being wasted in Alabama and other Red States, since too much of it will just head out the door to foreign defense contractors, foreign bankers holding US government debt, Saudi's with ties to the oil industry, and US subsidiaries of now mostly foreign owned health care corporations, in exchange for foreign campaign contributions by US subsidiaries. Its time to flush republican obstructionism from and plug the leakage within the plumbing of the US federal budget. No more republican junkets to Europe to cavort with foreign donors. No more republican favors for foreign tax shelters. No more protection rackets for insurance industries.
Republicanism has clogged the sewers of the federal budgeting process and its time for the draino and a good flush.
Down with republican corporate socialism and their reverse Robinhoodism!
Hooray for Obama for standing up to republican champions for Alabama pork, who have huddled with foreign interests instead of with American interests.
Hope that what, that he would pilot and crash Air Force One?
McCain has done little in years but to grandstand and but to enrich himself and spend lavishly on overseas junkets at taxpayers expense. If you added up all the expenditures paid for by taxpayers to pay for John McCain's travel, which I can't think of a single piece of legislation that resulted from any of it, it would total nearly 100 million dollars taking account of security, meals, hotel accommodations, limos, party favors, baggage or cameras, etc.
I say its time to end all federal pork to Arizona until Arizonans have the sense to get rid of McCain. He has cost this country enough already.
Its not exactly like all the "borrow and spend economics" that have been the hallmark of republicanism for the past 30 years hasn't created a budget deficit so large as to hollow out the underlying solvency of our government.
Its precisely the core of the republican message that has created the crisis, "lower taxes means more money for the rich and corporate interests", which in turn will "trickle down to the masses", who can otherwise "vote with their feet" (or if that won't work playing the "war card" will do the trick).
The problem is that republicans did know what they wanted to do once elected, but now that they accomplished their goal, the damage is done and no one, save the Chinese, know how to fix it. But Oh, wait all we need to do now is eliminate social security and medicare and pay for ever more pork in republican districts.
Its a bit naive to think that Senator Shelby spends so much time on European junkets to promote world peace rather than working hand in glove with foreign defense contractors to get American taxpayers to subsidize his borrow and spend republican philosophy, especially when such a large chunk of his campaign contributors are contractors who are little more than American subsidiaries of these foreign corporations.
"and set themselves in judgment of how other people chose to spend their own hard earned money",
as opposed to say health insurance providers, mortgage bankers, cable-companies and other corporations who perk up and listen to us every time we demand that their prices be reduced?
Might you be one of those Americans who spends hundreds of dollars each month to spend half of your time watching commercials, or am I just guessing?
As I listen to your wisdom, I am now beginning to understand why China is now able to spend about $145 billion dollars per year on high speed trains that run at over 200 mph and China now currently has 45 such high speed rail links between every major Chinese city, while America struggles to complete its first such link between two Florida cities a little over a hundred miles apart by 2014. It must be that we are spending way too much time listening to all those "enlightened socialists".
I agree, its time to stop spending money on pork in Alabama so that it can be funneled to foreign defense contractors, who grease the palms of Alabama senators.
In the case of the Alabama pork at issue, its mostly going to EADS the european defense contractor at the expense of the non-Alabama taxpayers.
Sure lets earmark everything and then make sure none of the earmarks are headed to Alabama where they primarily fund foreign outsourcing.
The problem of your proposal and why it will never be enacted is that you would rapidly discover that much of the earmarking is going into sending the money to our foreign creditors to keep our economy afloat. Thats what borrow and tax republicanism is all about, keeping tax rates low for foreign-owned corporations. Democrats for the most part at least have the decency of demanding that the bulk of US tax dollars be spent in the US, thereby supporting American labor.
Call your senator and demand that all pork going to Alabama be placed on hold and pulled from any budget decisions going forward and that money be spent either 1) to reduce the deficit or 2) spent on the needy in your state.
Ask them also to send a thank you note to Senator Shelby for giving them the opportunity to say no to pork.
"Your pork is another citizen's investment for the future."
Not always. As Senator Shelby demonstrated, his pork is a gift to a european defense contractor under the guise of providing a few in Alabama with jobs at the expense of other Americans, who need the money be spent on things other than supporting European bankers who are heavily invested in EADS and want the US taxpayer to bail them out too. Another classic case of republican economics in action.
I've written my senators demanding that they place a hold on all bills that send pork to Alabama for this purpose. You should too, unless of course, you live in Alabama. In that case you can send a letter to Senator Shelby thanking him for his efforts on behalf of foreign defense contractors and why you think its great that the US government will now be saving a lot of money by killing these pork projects.
No wonder the GOP is so actively courting the tea-bag movement. They need them to keep pumping money to foreigners who are actively encouraging their borrow and spend philosophy of government.
Its obvious that rubes like you failed to notice what disappeared during the Regan presidency that set us up for the mess we are in now. The give the rich a tax break crowd succeed (and still succeeds) in hollowing out our economy, social and physical infrastructure, and educational systems, and offshoring jobs, while leaving health care solely in the hands of private corporations, so now the government nor the middle class doesn't have enough money to do anything well and we are now all forced to borrow from China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Russia and elsewhere, while somehow thinking that our bankers won't have their own price to exact.
Well now these bankers do as Senator Shelby's bidding on behalf of the major European Defense contractor indicates.
I guess its at least fitting that folks in States like Alabama who hate taxes will be the ones to shoulder the burden disproportionately. They are the one's who voted for the great Regan agenda and its followups during the Bush dynasty.
At least one more time, since social security and medicare haven't been eliminated yet and there are still plenty of opportunities to play the war card, the true path to a bright future for the republican party and the rapture.
As for Alabama pork I am demanding that my Senators put hold on any pork in Alabama and have that redirected to our state instead.
It is not only a better use of the money, but serve Alabamians a good lesson of never again electing a shill like Shelby to use the US Senate to grease the palms of foreign defense contractors.
I would encourage fellow citizen's in the other 49 states to do likewise, with respect to pork that some Alabamians regard as their birthright.
Slashdot Mirror
"at all the data not just that that proves global warming"
Just what temperature data are you talking about? All those collected by Martian scientists who are withholding it because they are in a secret conspiracy with Al Gore?
"the ice-masses have shifted not shrunk"
Do yourself a favor take a look at the past few years of peak Arctic ice cover over the past few decades from satellite data, rather than simply bearing false witness.
"the pole has shifted, the ice masses moved with it"
Really, please provide the source for signficant movement of the pole within the last 50 years.
"sea levels have remained basically unchanged"
You might want to spend a little time perusing Science and Nature magazines, as opposed to bearing false witness.
"none of the tale tell signs are actually happening"
Then perhaps, you have another explanation for why nearly all glaciers on the planet are receding rather than only about 50% or less. I would love to hear it. Please provide sources, better yet provide data.
Probably about 10-20 years of declines in GLOBAL MEAN TEMPERATURE would disprove the global warming/CO2 theory. Unfortunately, for the climate change deniers, not to mention most of the rest of us, there is a vanishingly small probability of that happening, considering that most of the highest GLOBAL MEAN TEMPERATURES have been recorded in the past decade and CO2 production continues to increase each year.
"They are now pissed off to find out it was all bogus,They are now pissed off to find out it was all bogus,"
Funny but few there likely share your certainty. Evidenditly, they are too busy focusing on overcoming problems associated with rising sea levels, increasingly erratic monsoons, and declines in glacial meltwater.
Don't make me laugh.
Its not exactly as if climate only takes place in the US and therefore only US scientists are able to study the phenomenon and know something about it. Frankly, these days, if you look at ANY science, its global in the sense that contributors to peer reviewed journals many of which are published outside of the US are from many countries, not just the USA. With the decline of our economy and the rise of the "no more taxes crowd", funding in the US for education, particularly science education, is diminishing. Consequently, one will see more and more of the scientific frontier move from the US to other countries. Its already happened in subatomic physics, with the LHC and some areas of molecular biology.
Nonetheless, it is ironic that folks in Utah are now on record as voicing skepticism of climate change. Utah is one of the most arid states in the US. Given its location, nearly all existing climate models predict for Utah and other central-continental locations, increasing aridity and significantly higher temperatures. These folks are setting themselves up to die of thirst but the sad part of it, assuming you don't have anything against mormons, is that by the time they come to their collective senses, it will be too late for them to do substantially much about it.
is that these days both work for the same corporate masters, too often as in the case of Senator Shelby foreign masters at a foreign defense contractor or in the case of Senators from Oklahoma, the Saudi Royal family, Hugo Chavez, and British Petroleum.
Don't hold your breath hoping that you won't find yourself between the punch as they exchange blows. You might do well to be fast on your feet and do a lot of bobbing and weaving.
Shelby definitely over reached on this one. Now he has placed in jeopardy every piece of legislation about to provide a dollar to a red state district. The reverberations of his action are only beginning to be felt.
Republicans are about to be very much unloved by their constituencies for saying no all the time to progress.
It looks as if Red States and red districts are about to help America balance its budget deficits. Perhaps this is only just, since it was republican profligacy that created so much of the deficit much in the first place.
Well not being from Alabama, but being the one paying for too much of the Alabama pork, I am opposed to further pork for Huntsville. That money needs to be diverted to other more needy projects.
I would encourage all readers to write their Senators and demand that all pork going to Alabama be immediately suspended and that the money be used to either pay down the deficit or go to projects much more needed in their home states rather than to foreign defense contractors, who use Huntsville as to base their corporate subsidiary.
Its ironic that Senator Shelby turns out to be a socialist in capitalist clothing, looking for a federal handout rather than supporting privatization that was supposed to the the hallmark of the republican approach to budgeting. Now that Obama wants to privatize the system, he's against it. The only thing consistent about republicans is that they continue to want everyone to do it their way.
Well Senator Shelby made the mistake of poking the wrong politician in the eye with a sharp stick and it looks as if Alabamaians are going to pay the price of not electing a wiser senator.
I for one have asked by Senator to place a hold on budget for creating more pork in an FBI counter terrorism center in Alabama. It would simply duplicate programs elsewhere and increase our budget deficit. Likewise, I would encourage others to write their Senators to find other federal projects in Alabama that can be privatized and save taxpayers in 49 other states a lot of money.
Thank you Senator Shelby for pointing out where our Senators can save federal tax dollars by not wasting them in Alabama.
I applaud Senator Shelby of giving every democrat in the Senate, especially those on the appropriations committee, an open invitation to remove Alabama's pork from the budget and stuff it into their own budgetary earmarks, especially those going to my home state, since after all what you say must be true. In doing so, the will of the majority will be served, even if it does come at the expense of foreign defense contractors who hire a few Alabamians.
Its now open season on Red States that have two sitting republican senators! We can now all watch America's budget get balanced. Perhaps this is a fitting way to make those who supported the republican philosophy of borrow and spend bear the burden of their profligacy.
Now that Senator Shelby has fired the first shot, let the battle of the budget begin. Alabamaians, Mississippian, Texans, Oklahomans, they love their guns so they will enjoy the hunt to root out "waste, fraud, and abuse".
And yes I have written my senators demanding that they place holds on any more federal monies being wasted in Alabama and other Red States, since too much of it will just head out the door to foreign defense contractors, foreign bankers holding US government debt, Saudi's with ties to the oil industry, and US subsidiaries of now mostly foreign owned health care corporations, in exchange for foreign campaign contributions by US subsidiaries. Its time to flush republican obstructionism from and plug the leakage within the plumbing of the US federal budget. No more republican junkets to Europe to cavort with foreign donors. No more republican favors for foreign tax shelters. No more protection rackets for insurance industries.
Republicanism has clogged the sewers of the federal budgeting process and its time for the draino and a good flush.
Down with republican corporate socialism and their reverse Robinhoodism!
Hooray for Obama for standing up to republican champions for Alabama pork, who have huddled with foreign interests instead of with American interests.
May he with the most power win!
Hope that what, that he would pilot and crash Air Force One?
McCain has done little in years but to grandstand and but to enrich himself and spend lavishly on overseas junkets at taxpayers expense. If you added up all the expenditures paid for by taxpayers to pay for John McCain's travel, which I can't think of a single piece of legislation that resulted from any of it, it would total nearly 100 million dollars taking account of security, meals, hotel accommodations, limos, party favors, baggage or cameras, etc.
I say its time to end all federal pork to Arizona until Arizonans have the sense to get rid of McCain. He has cost this country enough already.
Its not exactly like all the "borrow and spend economics" that have been the hallmark of republicanism for the past 30 years hasn't created a budget deficit so large as to hollow out the underlying solvency of our government.
Its precisely the core of the republican message that has created the crisis, "lower taxes means more money for the rich and corporate interests", which in turn will "trickle down to the masses", who can otherwise "vote with their feet" (or if that won't work playing the "war card" will do the trick).
The problem is that republicans did know what they wanted to do once elected, but now that they accomplished their goal, the damage is done and no one, save the Chinese, know how to fix it. But Oh, wait all we need to do now is eliminate social security and medicare and pay for ever more pork in republican districts.
"color these actions"
Its a bit naive to think that Senator Shelby spends so much time on European junkets to promote world peace rather than working hand in glove with foreign defense contractors to get American taxpayers to subsidize his borrow and spend republican philosophy, especially when such a large chunk of his campaign contributors are contractors who are little more than American subsidiaries of these foreign corporations.
who want to cut us off from our pork.
"and set themselves in judgment of how other people chose to spend their own hard earned money",
as opposed to say health insurance providers, mortgage bankers, cable-companies and other corporations who perk up and listen to us every time we demand that their prices be reduced?
Might you be one of those Americans who spends hundreds of dollars each month to spend half of your time watching commercials, or am I just guessing?
As I listen to your wisdom, I am now beginning to understand why China is now able to spend about $145 billion dollars per year on high speed trains that run at over 200 mph and China now currently has 45 such high speed rail links between every major Chinese city, while America struggles to complete its first such link between two Florida cities a little over a hundred miles apart by 2014. It must be that we are spending way too much time listening to all those "enlightened socialists".
I agree, its time to stop spending money on pork in Alabama so that it can be funneled to foreign defense contractors, who grease the palms of Alabama senators.
In the case of the Alabama pork at issue, its mostly going to EADS the european defense contractor at the expense of the non-Alabama taxpayers.
Sure lets earmark everything and then make sure none of the earmarks are headed to Alabama where they primarily fund foreign outsourcing.
The problem of your proposal and why it will never be enacted is that you would rapidly discover that much of the earmarking is going into sending the money to our foreign creditors to keep our economy afloat. Thats what borrow and tax republicanism is all about, keeping tax rates low for foreign-owned corporations. Democrats for the most part at least have the decency of demanding that the bulk of US tax dollars be spent in the US, thereby supporting American labor.
Call your senator and demand that all pork going to Alabama be placed on hold and pulled from any budget decisions going forward and that money be spent either 1) to reduce the deficit or 2) spent on the needy in your state.
Ask them also to send a thank you note to Senator Shelby for giving them the opportunity to say no to pork.
Hey. Don't start trying to inject reason into this argument. If you did that Senators from Alabama wouldn't have anything to do.
Yeah, and I expect the tooth fairy should do her patriotic duty and leave me a million dollars under my pillow each and every night!
That way I would have money enough to pay for those socialist programs that provide the money for the pork being sent to Alabama every year.
"Your pork is another citizen's investment for the future."
Not always. As Senator Shelby demonstrated, his pork is a gift to a european defense contractor under the guise of providing a few in Alabama with jobs at the expense of other Americans, who need the money be spent on things other than supporting European bankers who are heavily invested in EADS and want the US taxpayer to bail them out too. Another classic case of republican economics in action.
I've written my senators demanding that they place a hold on all bills that send pork to Alabama for this purpose. You should too, unless of course, you live in Alabama. In that case you can send a letter to Senator Shelby thanking him for his efforts on behalf of foreign defense contractors and why you think its great that the US government will now be saving a lot of money by killing these pork projects.
No wonder the GOP is so actively courting the tea-bag movement. They need them to keep pumping money to foreigners who are actively encouraging their borrow and spend philosophy of government.
"So why do rich people have more of a "need" to hide tax breaks with a lower tax system than a higher tax system?"
Gee might it be that they have more money to hide and can afford to pay skillful accountants, tax lawyers, and Swiss bankers to help them hide it?
Duh, just wondering.
Its obvious that rubes like you failed to notice what disappeared during the Regan presidency that set us up for the mess we are in now. The give the rich a tax break crowd succeed (and still succeeds) in hollowing out our economy, social and physical infrastructure, and educational systems, and offshoring jobs, while leaving health care solely in the hands of private corporations, so now the government nor the middle class doesn't have enough money to do anything well and we are now all forced to borrow from China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Russia and elsewhere, while somehow thinking that our bankers won't have their own price to exact.
Well now these bankers do as Senator Shelby's bidding on behalf of the major European Defense contractor indicates.
I guess its at least fitting that folks in States like Alabama who hate taxes will be the ones to shoulder the burden disproportionately. They are the one's who voted for the great Regan agenda and its followups during the Bush dynasty.
At least one more time, since social security and medicare haven't been eliminated yet and there are still plenty of opportunities to play the war card, the true path to a bright future for the republican party and the rapture.
Just ask sister Sarah!
As for Alabama pork I am demanding that my Senators put hold on any pork in Alabama and have that redirected to our state instead.
It is not only a better use of the money, but serve Alabamians a good lesson of never again electing a shill like Shelby to use the US Senate to grease the palms of foreign defense contractors.
I would encourage fellow citizen's in the other 49 states to do likewise, with respect to pork that some Alabamians regard as their birthright.
since Homo sapiens is a species, whereas a racial group is by definition a subgroup of a species.
what you do when you are unable to amount to anything on your own.