And what exactly would be the point of nagging the desktop users in those businesses?
"Your ancient browser is not secure. Please update the trashware you are running with a real browser, or failing that, with at least Internet Explorer 8. If you fail to do so, your computer may explode or do other bad things."
It's ALL a matter of writing the correct nag screen. Push em to replace their outdated software implementations AND their browser all at once...
No it shouldn't, since MSE only runs on XP and above and IE7 and 8 were automatically pushed out via Windows Update to OS's that supported beyond IE6, which is XP and above. That is unless you knew about and employed the blocking tool for these updates. So for MSE to nag about IE6 would be inappropriate on an internal LAN, and pointless for someone who's turned off updates or is intentionally running unsafe.
MANY businesses manually update because of the annoyance of rebooted machines that are doing long-term work overnight. MANY businesses are stuck on IE6 still, because of "compatibility changes" in later versions that make their web apps not work (because they incorrectly believed a Microsoft solution would be long term, instead of obsoleted whenever MS felt like changing things around to stop it from working).
MSE has been a lifesaver at our non profit. We put on all our clients' computers. It's free, works great and best of all, no nag screens to "Upgrade" to the pro version, etc. Nag screens tend to upset our consumers. So yes, It's great.
It's great other than being very limited in abilities. I am SO FUCKING TIRED of seeing all these IDIOTIC MICROSOFT ADS that are designed to seem like they are reviews.
For instance, why have the last few releases been touted as so wonderful, when it hasn't been until THIS release of MSE that it has gained heuristic scanning, network traffic inspection and integrated firewall support. VIRTUALLY EVERY OTHER SUCH PROGRAM HAS THAT. MANY programs have far more (and better) features still. Yet, ars, who also raved about the v1.x series, is yet again making it seem like MSE is the end-all/be-all of anti-malware tools. They (and too numerous other ragazines) did that with the unfinished v1 series (sorry, when it's lacking a real heuristics engine, firewall support, network traffic inspection and more, it's unfinished in this day and age).
I'd rather deal with nag screens on the numerous, better free programs... or better yet, have you tried contacting those companies that provide better malware protection about a free/discounted non-profit price?
Regardless, I am not saying that MSE isn't "good" - I'm saying I am tired of these "reviews" that, regardless of it's deficiencies, seem more advertising than review and try to put MSE in a better light than numerous, more capable programs. Sure, write that it's "good", "better than before" or whatever... but dont pretend or imply it should be the first and only choice.
And christurkel, this rant isn't so much directed at you, as it is at those who've led you to believe that MSE was (or may be now) a valid anti-malware solution. It isn't. In every malware situation I've run into, I've always had to use something else to remove malware that MSE either didnt detect or couldn't remove.
Or, (to add to what thryllkill said) that there are no str8 nerds here who dont like their gay nerd friends being discriminated against?
My nerd friends are gay, straight, bi, and a few who are possibly entirely non-sexual... and NONE of them support discrimination against gays, while all of them are interested in such issues because gay or not, it at the least affects more than one of their friends.
Why can you have "issues" with gays but you must not have "issues" with blacks, jews and women in your team?
Because sadly, irrational "issues"/hate/bigotry never seems to disappear - it just gains a new target. And even more sadly, in some backwards ass hick cities and towns in this country, one target doesnt get replaced with another... it simply gets added to the list. Inotherwords, bigotry towards jews or blacks doesnt disappear to be replaced with bigotry towards gays... gays simply gets added to the list. So, in some places, hate actually increases as new groups get added to the bigot-list.
Points well taken, but I meant in the context of the consumer market. Something I should've made clear given the coiner of the phrase, I suppose.
Ah! Well, that is an interesting point.
But, my opinion on it is as follows... (a) who knows? (b) why not?
Or, inotherwords, it all depends on the final implementation and capabilities/availability of the apps needed. There was a time when PC gaming was pretty much a joke (and consoles were the way to go)... not so much nowadays. There was a time when desktop publishing required expensive machines, or custom/specialized setups... not so much anymore. And so on...;-)
This can definitely become something viable for the consumer market... today? Maybe not. This coming year? eh... In 2012... perhaps, maybe even definitely. When the G1 came out, it was a "dead end" not worth getting because of lack of apps and lack of functionality on a platform that would go nowhere (especially with RIM and Apple entrenched in that marketplace). We saw how accurate those predictions were (I got a G1, btw, because for similar reasons, I thought those predictions were ludicrous - glad I was proven correct). With there being no reason why a cloud-based thin client solution cannot deliver what consumers need/want (except for perhaps gamers, VFX guys and other specialized users) in a fashion that's as seamless as what's delivered on their fat clients (and with a lot less headaches). Hence the reason I dont have a specific answer to your points - it will all be dependent on those who enter the developer arena and how the netbooks are marketed.
"The network is the computer" wasn't wrong it was just too early. I'm not sure Google isn't too early themselves, but they've certainly got the brains for it.
The funniest things about it are:
It used to work in the mainframe days.
It worked phenomenally well with OS/2 and WorkSpace on Demand
It worked phenomenally well on SunOS and Solaris
It works phenomenally well on some other *nix implementations.
It worked adequately on Windows 2000 and XP.
There were a very large number of businesses/agencies that embraced Thin Clients
It's not that earlier tech was too early. It's that (1) so many corporate entities currently rely on Windows, which is no longer is a viable option considering there's nothing "thin" about any Win7 implementation (you end up buying a full fledged desktop and paying for a full fledged desktop license - all to run a thin client (unless you are buying in massive volume, at which time the licensing costs decrease a bit)), (2) computers have become so cheap that a cheapo desktop station isn't much less than a thin client and (3) licensing "Thin Clients" from Microsoft in small quantities required desktop OS licensing, meaning for about the same cost (hardware and software) one could have a full fledged machine instead of a "crippled" one.
Now, with the advent of high speed cell data connections, things are changing a bit. And with multiple business looking into moving into "the cloud" things are changing in that respect a bit too. And with many government and healthcare agencies worrying about data loss on lost or stolen laptops... and with way too many articles about "Company/Govt Agency employees found surfing the web/installing unapproved apps/spending time on Slashdot", the mindset is also changing (even though many of these people have yet realized that a thin client, locked down, cloud connected device, such as the Cr-48, is the solution to the problems they perceive they have.
This is the time... given a year or so (in which all the kinks should be worked out), the market for such devices should increase dramatically - if even only in the government/healthcare/business sectors. But even if that's the only areas such devices are embraced in, it's still a massive "niche" market.
Idiots with mod points. The truth may be harsh, but it is still true. Vista was slipping past it's latest promised date. Features were dropped, and it was rushed out the door waaaaaay too early, with MANY problems.
Ya dont have to like what I wrote above, but it is true. And it is the difference between a Microsoft beta and a Google beta.
The truth, when it applies (as above), is not trolling.
I think you forget the numerous alpha and beta releases of Windows they make available to everyone.
There is a VAST difference between calling a product that's GA level a beta for upteen years (Google) or releasing numerous alphas (as betas) and numerous betas to just about anyone (Microsoft).
That's not even taking into account the multi-year beta for Windows 7... let's see... Windows 7 beta testing started in mid 2005. Yes, I said MID 2005 - because anyone who claims Vista, in any release, was anything more than a beta for Windows 7 is an idiot. Heck, as it is, many the features promised for Vista are STILL missing in Windows 7. And Vista, even after every fix there is, STILL should be considered beta software. So... there's the betas I am talking about. How many people are still running that piece of crapware never-ending-beta (Vista)?
Google's pilot program though, is for those serious about testing the Cr-48 - not for simply trying to maintain marketshare on releases that keep slipping years late by releasing a never-ending stream of betas. Again, even though Google loves leaving the beta tag on so many of their services, their definition is vastly different than Microsoft's (or the rest of the industry).
"(3) They (Google) paid for 60,000 of these (in money or other considerations) - did you really expect TEST PROTOTYPE versions to be uber-high end? "
I expect nothing but the finest from Google, that is why i use their services. And i am really disappointed about that "Ships only in USA crap" For a company that is about to index all of the worlds information, shirley they could have figured something out. Say like, in the software disabling the transmitter that makes regional government entities go apeshit on sight.
"I expect nothing but Google to spend a lot of money giving me equipment to play with. Every day should be Christmas from Google!!! Also, because I am an idiot and can't read, I never saw the part on their Cr-48 pages that said they are working on setting up a program for non-US people, otherwise I wouldn't complain about it. Besides that, since I am a technology idiot who doesn't understand that a non-US version will require different cell hardware and a separate agreement with multiple other carriers all worked out before units can be shipped to us, I have this idiotic expectation."
There, translated that for you...:-)
You don't exactly seem like the type of person Google would want in this program anyway... maybe you know that, and thus chose to post anonymously?
You make an argument once again for the idea that one should never, ever release a beta of anything to the general public. It doesn't matter how much you say that this is a prototype or a test unit, people will judge it as if it the finished product. And that will be their first important impression.
Yep. Sad, isn't it? But the days of closed betas died a long time ago, with Microsoft's never ending "public betas to the world".
I for one never ever ever want to go back to managing and maintaining contacts on a damn cell phone again. Much rather be able to add them "to the cloud" and edit/change them from my PC/phone/whatever from "the cloud" - and replace my phone with another Android based phone (hey, my G1 is definitely up for retirement) and need do nothing but log in. Same goes for a variety of other Google Services.
I like the cloud for contacts and calendar, too. But, I dont' want to give Google any more info on me than they already have.... so I am running a Zimbra server that lets me push stuff to my phone. Giving Google full control over all my info, documents, and apps, does not sound like a good time to me.
And why can't you use your own cloud servers? I'm only a half decent programmer, but I know how to use both dedicated/our own cloud servers AND link what data I need/want to through Google's services for where there's overlap (like contacts, maps, docs, picasa, etc). It's very very easy. All the APIs are in place. Anyone with just a little programming skill can do it.
Heck, you can even run your own versions of Google's services to "disconnect" from them yet still run the same services solely for you and/or your customers.
Hmmm... I know you in particular weren't really complaining, but numerous of these reviews are. And I can't figure out why...
(1) it's a prototype
(2) it should be the lowest common denominator - not the highest. Best way to test and tweak things. It's why I know what I download/install/test on my T-Mo G1 (or on an ADP1) will work very well on other hardware.
(3) They (Google) paid for 60,000 of these (in money or other considerations) - did you really expect TEST PROTOTYPE versions to be uber-high end?
(4) A lot of the complaints seem to be about unfinished or untweaked stuff... to that, I have to say "DUH!!!!" - that is, after all, the purpose of this testing. To see what needs to be improved. To see what needs to be replaced/re-written. To allow testing while Google finishes off other parts of the software for these types of devices.
I dunno... that's my opinion on this. Yours may vary.:-)
We've done this before, anyone remember thin clients?
Maybe this time 'the cloud' will take off, maybe not.
But either way, yes this has the potential for being big.
Bingo! And there were some companies that made (and still do) extensive use of them. CompUSA used them a lot for various of their systems, all hooked to their own "cloud". The market still exists, if there are people out there willing to fulfill the right needs.
Fortunately, Microsoft seems to have given up on their thin client model, and has no idea what cloud computing is. That gives me hope that true cloud computing will find it's place, driven by those who do understand the potentials. Heh, to think that one of the big honchos in Microsoft's Office Online stuff cited their vast "cloud computing" experience as their botched takeover of Hotmail (and subsequent half decade to finally migrate it from Solaris and FreeBSD to Windows) made me laugh my ass off.
And more to the point, it's been pointed out already that they haven't removed the caps lock functionality, just a key dedicated to it. You can still go into CAPS LOCK mode by double taping the shift key or if you are really really adverse to change, go into the settings and change the key back to being caps lock.
Yeah, I guess lately posting FUD is more fun here on slashdot though. I'm getting used to it. Hope you do too.:-)
Lotsa time using the same keyboard series helps. Makes it seem natural to shift/unshift.
I do a lot of REXX coding (and formerly some C++) and follow IBM's naming conventions for their C++ functions when creating REXX functions (such as VioWrtTTY), so, I've gotten very used to switching shift state pretty quickly and with minimal errors.
For most practical things, the "cloud" is worthless as a primary storage device. Yes the "cloud" can be useful for backing up data off-site as you noted with contacts with Android. There are some big drawbacks to the "cloud" though.
Not as many as you allude to... and I find it useful for a lot of other things - collaborative docs (Google Docs) being one. I also have clients that (a) need to move virtually everything into the cloud and (b) want a machine that things CANT be installed onto. The need for this, even if it is not your own need, is still very very large. If this netbook project succeeds, we could potentially sell a few thousand in a year - without trying very hard - and just in our area.
A) Lack of access. There are many places where it is impossible to get any internet connection (or at least anything that you aren't paying out of the ass for), travel is the number one reason I use my laptop on the go. If I'm on a bus that doesn't have wi-fi on it, I have no internet. Yes, you can buy things through cell phone companies that let you use the internet, but they are expensive and now they are even eliminating unlimited data, giving you a tiny amount of usable data at a high price at low speeds.
Hmmm... my data plan is flat rate, unlimited (yeah, unlike Verizon). And I've got access almost anywhere to a cell data signal. Sorry you are getting ass-raped by your carrier.
And as the popularity of other devices have shown, there are plenty of people willing to pay a bunch for a data plan.
B) It is more expensive. For the price of two months of cell phone data service, you can get a decent 500 GB - 1 TB HDD. Yes, I know that hard drives fail, but assuming that they don't fail within 2 months of use, you are essentially saving money by storing your things locally and only using the "cloud" for backups on your home internet connection.
Sorry you have a pricey cell carrier. Also, the cloud isn't about "backing up data"
C) It isn't secure. The "cloud" is only as secure as your trust for the person or company that has your data. It shouldn't surprise you that the companies who push the "cloud" as a revolution are the same people who make money off of mining your personal data? Sites like Google and Facebook. Now, I'm not saying that either of those sites is 100% untrustworthy, but still, their main source of income is through selling data to advertisers and selling ads. Not to mention that break-ins and the lack of data integrity is possible, not to mention the legal implications as governments have been known to plant evidence, add that plus a willing company and you have potential jail time for doing nothing wrong.
Common misconception. We plan on expanding our cloud services onto these types of devices. Our cloud services are very secure. Our next implementation will be at the client's and under their control - and will only be as insecure as they decide they want it.
You have to remember, the cloud doesn't mean using someone else's services. It means having a centralized app/file/platform serving location.
D) Internet connections aren't uniform. Sure, in a big city or an affluent suburb fast, free, wi-fi is prevalent, with enough money you can buy a nearly lag-free 4G modem and use 4G for surfing the web and accessing the "cloud", but lets say you go to visit your obscure relatives for a family reunion in Middleofnowhere, Iowa. Suddenly, your 4G isn't going to work there, you might not get any service at all, and the house you are staying at has no internet beyond dial-up.
I might get.... hmmm... 3G in Middleofnowhere. Been there, done that. And Wifi nearby too. That's in a tiny city in upstate New York with a population of a few hundred. So small, there's no fast food places, no 7-11's, no Starbucks, and only 3 local restaurants and a local grocery store and a Stewarts.
While the Cr-48's big event recently could be seen worldwide over the internet infrastructure that Google itself supports, testing of this device was only limited to those residing in the US!
This was unfair to those outside the United States. Making things even worse was the fact that at registration, one only came to this realization after being asked about what the U.S. State of residence is. This would be after asking for all other information!
Google should have allowed those without a U.S. shipping address to be billed for any expenses if they really wanted to be part of the testing regime. Heck...Google has "Google Checkout", right?
I was not happy at all. Google being a worldwide company would have benefited a lot from worldwide input.
How am I wrong?
Perhaps you are wrong by not having read up on this Pilot Program to see that they will be expanding testing to non-US companies in the future. Among other things, I suspect they have deals/agreements to make with wireless/cell carriers in non-US locations (such as the agreement with Verizon, where we get 100MB data per month for free, for two years).
On top of that, there's differences in hardware that needs to be considered. Most people don't think about that either. But, for the same reason I cannot take my T-Mobile G1 and connect it to Verizon's entirely different network, I would suspect you could not take a device with a cell modem designed for Verizon's network and connect to most other carriers' networks. You're going to be waiting on a device (and drivers, and the agreement part I mentioned above) that supports a carrier in your country.
Regardless, if the CR-48 pages are correct, it will only be a matter of time before it's rolled out in other countries. All of them? Some of them? Two other countries? A dozen? Notta clue... just know that they claim to have that in the plans for the near future.
Ummm... that is the whole idea behind cloud computing. It also leverages Google's Cloud Services, which will surely be a benefit for them. And... it's a growing, increasing trend - even if most people don't recognize it.
With their recent improvements in various of their cloud services (Docs and Calendar, to name a couple), for many users, it will be more than enough for them - in a similar fashion to those who love their iPads or Android Pads. It just means another option for them.
There's also a BIG business market for these. I know. That's one of the sectors we do work for. The market is VERY VERY VERY HUGE - and it's kind of sad that many people out there do not understand the potential for a device such as this one.
Isn't this the second nail in the coffin for this thing recently?
I DON'T KNOW, I NEVER USE MY CAPS LOCK KEY. WHAT'S IT FOR?
Seriously though, except for programming/development, or for those who LOVE SHOUTING IN EVERY POST/MSG/ETC BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW BETTER (or those who still program in the original MS-DOS BASIC), I don't see it as a big problem.
Heck, even for programmers (I often type those special "certain things" in ALL CAPS), I still find it easier to simply hold down the shift key (which is actually how I did the capitalized section above). Maybe it's all a matter of the keyboard, but I find on my Model M, it's very easy to hold shift with my pinky and type with the remaining fingers relatively normal.
Well, I am glad I got in my request for one days before this story got posted here. Hopefully that will improve my chances.
Anyway, simple fact is, a lot of things have moved, or will be moving into "the cloud" - especially with the popularity of AndroidOS based phones. I for one never ever ever want to go back to managing and maintaining contacts on a damn cell phone again. Much rather be able to add them "to the cloud" and edit/change them from my PC/phone/whatever from "the cloud" - and replace my phone with another Android based phone (hey, my G1 is definitely up for retirement) and need do nothing but log in. Same goes for a variety of other Google Services.
Whether this laptop is great, sucks, whatever; true cloud computing (ie: forget Microsoft's lame commercials - they understand cloud computing as much as they did/do object oriented programming... inotherwords, not at all)... true cloud computing is going to become a lot more prevalent in this day and age. Jumping on that bandwagon early as it grows is a good thing. If Google doesn't get this right on the first time out, I am sure they will work on improving it.
I can't say what a pleasure it is to read someone gross and incorrect description of how the internals of the hand and wrist work and then come to the wrong conclusions. Seriously, I can't say.
Oh, really? Talk to IBM (who spent a decade on the Model M design) or perhaps doctors who actually studied such things. Or, you could talk out of your ass. In 24 years of using a Model M, I've never had wrist fatigue or finger fatigue or such. Looks like IBM may have been right, and those ten years were worthwhile.
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And what exactly would be the point of nagging the desktop users in those businesses?
"Your ancient browser is not secure. Please update the trashware you are running with a real browser, or failing that, with at least Internet Explorer 8. If you fail to do so, your computer may explode or do other bad things."
It's ALL a matter of writing the correct nag screen. Push em to replace their outdated software implementations AND their browser all at once...
;-)
No it shouldn't, since MSE only runs on XP and above and IE7 and 8 were automatically pushed out via Windows Update to OS's that supported beyond IE6, which is XP and above. That is unless you knew about and employed the blocking tool for these updates. So for MSE to nag about IE6 would be inappropriate on an internal LAN, and pointless for someone who's turned off updates or is intentionally running unsafe.
MANY businesses manually update because of the annoyance of rebooted machines that are doing long-term work overnight. MANY businesses are stuck on IE6 still, because of "compatibility changes" in later versions that make their web apps not work (because they incorrectly believed a Microsoft solution would be long term, instead of obsoleted whenever MS felt like changing things around to stop it from working).
MSE has been a lifesaver at our non profit. We put on all our clients' computers. It's free, works great and best of all, no nag screens to "Upgrade" to the pro version, etc. Nag screens tend to upset our consumers. So yes, It's great.
It's great other than being very limited in abilities. I am SO FUCKING TIRED of seeing all these IDIOTIC MICROSOFT ADS that are designed to seem like they are reviews.
For instance, why have the last few releases been touted as so wonderful, when it hasn't been until THIS release of MSE that it has gained heuristic scanning, network traffic inspection and integrated firewall support. VIRTUALLY EVERY OTHER SUCH PROGRAM HAS THAT. MANY programs have far more (and better) features still. Yet, ars, who also raved about the v1.x series, is yet again making it seem like MSE is the end-all/be-all of anti-malware tools. They (and too numerous other ragazines) did that with the unfinished v1 series (sorry, when it's lacking a real heuristics engine, firewall support, network traffic inspection and more, it's unfinished in this day and age).
I'd rather deal with nag screens on the numerous, better free programs... or better yet, have you tried contacting those companies that provide better malware protection about a free/discounted non-profit price?
Regardless, I am not saying that MSE isn't "good" - I'm saying I am tired of these "reviews" that, regardless of it's deficiencies, seem more advertising than review and try to put MSE in a better light than numerous, more capable programs. Sure, write that it's "good", "better than before" or whatever... but dont pretend or imply it should be the first and only choice.
And christurkel, this rant isn't so much directed at you, as it is at those who've led you to believe that MSE was (or may be now) a valid anti-malware solution. It isn't. In every malware situation I've run into, I've always had to use something else to remove malware that MSE either didnt detect or couldn't remove.
Or, (to add to what thryllkill said) that there are no str8 nerds here who dont like their gay nerd friends being discriminated against?
My nerd friends are gay, straight, bi, and a few who are possibly entirely non-sexual... and NONE of them support discrimination against gays, while all of them are interested in such issues because gay or not, it at the least affects more than one of their friends.
Why can you have "issues" with gays but you must not have "issues" with blacks, jews and women in your team?
Because sadly, irrational "issues"/hate/bigotry never seems to disappear - it just gains a new target. And even more sadly, in some backwards ass hick cities and towns in this country, one target doesnt get replaced with another... it simply gets added to the list. Inotherwords, bigotry towards jews or blacks doesnt disappear to be replaced with bigotry towards gays... gays simply gets added to the list. So, in some places, hate actually increases as new groups get added to the bigot-list.
Points well taken, but I meant in the context of the consumer market. Something I should've made clear given the coiner of the phrase, I suppose.
Ah! Well, that is an interesting point.
But, my opinion on it is as follows... (a) who knows? (b) why not?
Or, inotherwords, it all depends on the final implementation and capabilities/availability of the apps needed. There was a time when PC gaming was pretty much a joke (and consoles were the way to go)... not so much nowadays. There was a time when desktop publishing required expensive machines, or custom/specialized setups... not so much anymore. And so on... ;-)
This can definitely become something viable for the consumer market... today? Maybe not. This coming year? eh... In 2012... perhaps, maybe even definitely. When the G1 came out, it was a "dead end" not worth getting because of lack of apps and lack of functionality on a platform that would go nowhere (especially with RIM and Apple entrenched in that marketplace). We saw how accurate those predictions were (I got a G1, btw, because for similar reasons, I thought those predictions were ludicrous - glad I was proven correct). With there being no reason why a cloud-based thin client solution cannot deliver what consumers need/want (except for perhaps gamers, VFX guys and other specialized users) in a fashion that's as seamless as what's delivered on their fat clients (and with a lot less headaches). Hence the reason I dont have a specific answer to your points - it will all be dependent on those who enter the developer arena and how the netbooks are marketed.
"The network is the computer" wasn't wrong it was just too early. I'm not sure Google isn't too early themselves, but they've certainly got the brains for it.
The funniest things about it are:
It used to work in the mainframe days.
It worked phenomenally well with OS/2 and WorkSpace on Demand
It worked phenomenally well on SunOS and Solaris
It works phenomenally well on some other *nix implementations.
It worked adequately on Windows 2000 and XP.
There were a very large number of businesses/agencies that embraced Thin Clients
It's not that earlier tech was too early. It's that (1) so many corporate entities currently rely on Windows, which is no longer is a viable option considering there's nothing "thin" about any Win7 implementation (you end up buying a full fledged desktop and paying for a full fledged desktop license - all to run a thin client (unless you are buying in massive volume, at which time the licensing costs decrease a bit)), (2) computers have become so cheap that a cheapo desktop station isn't much less than a thin client and (3) licensing "Thin Clients" from Microsoft in small quantities required desktop OS licensing, meaning for about the same cost (hardware and software) one could have a full fledged machine instead of a "crippled" one.
Now, with the advent of high speed cell data connections, things are changing a bit. And with multiple business looking into moving into "the cloud" things are changing in that respect a bit too. And with many government and healthcare agencies worrying about data loss on lost or stolen laptops... and with way too many articles about "Company/Govt Agency employees found surfing the web/installing unapproved apps/spending time on Slashdot", the mindset is also changing (even though many of these people have yet realized that a thin client, locked down, cloud connected device, such as the Cr-48, is the solution to the problems they perceive they have.
This is the time... given a year or so (in which all the kinks should be worked out), the market for such devices should increase dramatically - if even only in the government/healthcare/business sectors. But even if that's the only areas such devices are embraced in, it's still a massive "niche" market.
Idiots with mod points. The truth may be harsh, but it is still true. Vista was slipping past it's latest promised date. Features were dropped, and it was rushed out the door waaaaaay too early, with MANY problems.
Ya dont have to like what I wrote above, but it is true. And it is the difference between a Microsoft beta and a Google beta.
The truth, when it applies (as above), is not trolling.
I think you forget the numerous alpha and beta releases of Windows they make available to everyone.
There is a VAST difference between calling a product that's GA level a beta for upteen years (Google) or releasing numerous alphas (as betas) and numerous betas to just about anyone (Microsoft).
That's not even taking into account the multi-year beta for Windows 7... let's see... Windows 7 beta testing started in mid 2005. Yes, I said MID 2005 - because anyone who claims Vista, in any release, was anything more than a beta for Windows 7 is an idiot. Heck, as it is, many the features promised for Vista are STILL missing in Windows 7. And Vista, even after every fix there is, STILL should be considered beta software. So... there's the betas I am talking about. How many people are still running that piece of crapware never-ending-beta (Vista)?
Google's pilot program though, is for those serious about testing the Cr-48 - not for simply trying to maintain marketshare on releases that keep slipping years late by releasing a never-ending stream of betas. Again, even though Google loves leaving the beta tag on so many of their services, their definition is vastly different than Microsoft's (or the rest of the industry).
"(3) They (Google) paid for 60,000 of these (in money or other considerations) - did you really expect TEST PROTOTYPE versions to be uber-high end? "
I expect nothing but the finest from Google, that is why i use their services. And i am really disappointed about that "Ships only in USA crap" For a company that is about to index all of the worlds information, shirley they could have figured something out. Say like, in the software disabling the transmitter that makes regional government entities go apeshit on sight.
"I expect nothing but Google to spend a lot of money giving me equipment to play with. Every day should be Christmas from Google!!! Also, because I am an idiot and can't read, I never saw the part on their Cr-48 pages that said they are working on setting up a program for non-US people, otherwise I wouldn't complain about it. Besides that, since I am a technology idiot who doesn't understand that a non-US version will require different cell hardware and a separate agreement with multiple other carriers all worked out before units can be shipped to us, I have this idiotic expectation."
There, translated that for you... :-)
You don't exactly seem like the type of person Google would want in this program anyway... maybe you know that, and thus chose to post anonymously?
You make an argument once again for the idea that one should never, ever release a beta of anything to the general public. It doesn't matter how much you say that this is a prototype or a test unit, people will judge it as if it the finished product. And that will be their first important impression.
Yep. Sad, isn't it? But the days of closed betas died a long time ago, with Microsoft's never ending "public betas to the world".
Who's the goof who stuck a hyperlink on 48-Cr in the isotope table?
Yeah, sorry about that, but I already fixed it... :-)
If you buy a chromeos device you might as well chop off your penis.
Instead, how about when I buy a ChromeOS device, I chop off your penis, since you seem to have a thing for such oddities.
I for one never ever ever want to go back to managing and maintaining contacts on a damn cell phone again. Much rather be able to add them "to the cloud" and edit/change them from my PC/phone/whatever from "the cloud" - and replace my phone with another Android based phone (hey, my G1 is definitely up for retirement) and need do nothing but log in. Same goes for a variety of other Google Services.
I like the cloud for contacts and calendar, too. But, I dont' want to give Google any more info on me than they already have.... so I am running a Zimbra server that lets me push stuff to my phone. Giving Google full control over all my info, documents, and apps, does not sound like a good time to me.
And why can't you use your own cloud servers? I'm only a half decent programmer, but I know how to use both dedicated/our own cloud servers AND link what data I need/want to through Google's services for where there's overlap (like contacts, maps, docs, picasa, etc). It's very very easy. All the APIs are in place. Anyone with just a little programming skill can do it.
Heck, you can even run your own versions of Google's services to "disconnect" from them yet still run the same services solely for you and/or your customers.
Hmmm... I know you in particular weren't really complaining, but numerous of these reviews are. And I can't figure out why...
(1) it's a prototype
(2) it should be the lowest common denominator - not the highest. Best way to test and tweak things. It's why I know what I download/install/test on my T-Mo G1 (or on an ADP1) will work very well on other hardware.
(3) They (Google) paid for 60,000 of these (in money or other considerations) - did you really expect TEST PROTOTYPE versions to be uber-high end?
(4) A lot of the complaints seem to be about unfinished or untweaked stuff... to that, I have to say "DUH!!!!" - that is, after all, the purpose of this testing. To see what needs to be improved. To see what needs to be replaced/re-written. To allow testing while Google finishes off other parts of the software for these types of devices.
I dunno... that's my opinion on this. Yours may vary. :-)
We've done this before, anyone remember thin clients?
Maybe this time 'the cloud' will take off, maybe not.
But either way, yes this has the potential for being big.
Bingo! And there were some companies that made (and still do) extensive use of them. CompUSA used them a lot for various of their systems, all hooked to their own "cloud". The market still exists, if there are people out there willing to fulfill the right needs.
Fortunately, Microsoft seems to have given up on their thin client model, and has no idea what cloud computing is. That gives me hope that true cloud computing will find it's place, driven by those who do understand the potentials. Heh, to think that one of the big honchos in Microsoft's Office Online stuff cited their vast "cloud computing" experience as their botched takeover of Hotmail (and subsequent half decade to finally migrate it from Solaris and FreeBSD to Windows) made me laugh my ass off.
And more to the point, it's been pointed out already that they haven't removed the caps lock functionality, just a key dedicated to it. You can still go into CAPS LOCK mode by double taping the shift key or if you are really really adverse to change, go into the settings and change the key back to being caps lock.
Yeah, I guess lately posting FUD is more fun here on slashdot though. I'm getting used to it. Hope you do too. :-)
Lotsa time using the same keyboard series helps. Makes it seem natural to shift/unshift.
I do a lot of REXX coding (and formerly some C++) and follow IBM's naming conventions for their C++ functions when creating REXX functions (such as VioWrtTTY), so, I've gotten very used to switching shift state pretty quickly and with minimal errors.
For most practical things, the "cloud" is worthless as a primary storage device. Yes the "cloud" can be useful for backing up data off-site as you noted with contacts with Android. There are some big drawbacks to the "cloud" though.
Not as many as you allude to... and I find it useful for a lot of other things - collaborative docs (Google Docs) being one. I also have clients that (a) need to move virtually everything into the cloud and (b) want a machine that things CANT be installed onto. The need for this, even if it is not your own need, is still very very large. If this netbook project succeeds, we could potentially sell a few thousand in a year - without trying very hard - and just in our area.
A) Lack of access. There are many places where it is impossible to get any internet connection (or at least anything that you aren't paying out of the ass for), travel is the number one reason I use my laptop on the go. If I'm on a bus that doesn't have wi-fi on it, I have no internet. Yes, you can buy things through cell phone companies that let you use the internet, but they are expensive and now they are even eliminating unlimited data, giving you a tiny amount of usable data at a high price at low speeds.
Hmmm... my data plan is flat rate, unlimited (yeah, unlike Verizon). And I've got access almost anywhere to a cell data signal. Sorry you are getting ass-raped by your carrier.
And as the popularity of other devices have shown, there are plenty of people willing to pay a bunch for a data plan.
B) It is more expensive. For the price of two months of cell phone data service, you can get a decent 500 GB - 1 TB HDD. Yes, I know that hard drives fail, but assuming that they don't fail within 2 months of use, you are essentially saving money by storing your things locally and only using the "cloud" for backups on your home internet connection.
Sorry you have a pricey cell carrier. Also, the cloud isn't about "backing up data"
C) It isn't secure. The "cloud" is only as secure as your trust for the person or company that has your data. It shouldn't surprise you that the companies who push the "cloud" as a revolution are the same people who make money off of mining your personal data? Sites like Google and Facebook. Now, I'm not saying that either of those sites is 100% untrustworthy, but still, their main source of income is through selling data to advertisers and selling ads. Not to mention that break-ins and the lack of data integrity is possible, not to mention the legal implications as governments have been known to plant evidence, add that plus a willing company and you have potential jail time for doing nothing wrong.
Common misconception. We plan on expanding our cloud services onto these types of devices. Our cloud services are very secure. Our next implementation will be at the client's and under their control - and will only be as insecure as they decide they want it.
You have to remember, the cloud doesn't mean using someone else's services. It means having a centralized app/file/platform serving location.
D) Internet connections aren't uniform. Sure, in a big city or an affluent suburb fast, free, wi-fi is prevalent, with enough money you can buy a nearly lag-free 4G modem and use 4G for surfing the web and accessing the "cloud", but lets say you go to visit your obscure relatives for a family reunion in Middleofnowhere, Iowa. Suddenly, your 4G isn't going to work there, you might not get any service at all, and the house you are staying at has no internet beyond dial-up.
I might get.... hmmm... 3G in Middleofnowhere. Been there, done that. And Wifi nearby too. That's in a tiny city in upstate New York with a population of a few hundred. So small, there's no fast food places, no 7-11's, no Starbucks, and only 3 local restaurants and a local grocery store and a Stewarts.
...and here's why:
While the Cr-48's big event recently could be seen worldwide over the internet infrastructure that Google itself supports, testing of this device was only limited to those residing in the US!
This was unfair to those outside the United States. Making things even worse was the fact that at registration, one only came to this realization after being asked about what the U.S. State of residence is. This would be after asking for all other information!
Google should have allowed those without a U.S. shipping address to be billed for any expenses if they really wanted to be part of the testing regime. Heck...Google has "Google Checkout", right?
I was not happy at all. Google being a worldwide company would have benefited a lot from worldwide input.
How am I wrong?
Perhaps you are wrong by not having read up on this Pilot Program to see that they will be expanding testing to non-US companies in the future. Among other things, I suspect they have deals/agreements to make with wireless/cell carriers in non-US locations (such as the agreement with Verizon, where we get 100MB data per month for free, for two years).
On top of that, there's differences in hardware that needs to be considered. Most people don't think about that either. But, for the same reason I cannot take my T-Mobile G1 and connect it to Verizon's entirely different network, I would suspect you could not take a device with a cell modem designed for Verizon's network and connect to most other carriers' networks. You're going to be waiting on a device (and drivers, and the agreement part I mentioned above) that supports a carrier in your country.
Regardless, if the CR-48 pages are correct, it will only be a matter of time before it's rolled out in other countries. All of them? Some of them? Two other countries? A dozen? Notta clue... just know that they claim to have that in the plans for the near future.
Ummm... that is the whole idea behind cloud computing. It also leverages Google's Cloud Services, which will surely be a benefit for them. And... it's a growing, increasing trend - even if most people don't recognize it.
With their recent improvements in various of their cloud services (Docs and Calendar, to name a couple), for many users, it will be more than enough for them - in a similar fashion to those who love their iPads or Android Pads. It just means another option for them.
There's also a BIG business market for these. I know. That's one of the sectors we do work for. The market is VERY VERY VERY HUGE - and it's kind of sad that many people out there do not understand the potential for a device such as this one.
NO CAPS LOCK KEY.
Isn't this the second nail in the coffin for this thing recently?
I DON'T KNOW, I NEVER USE MY CAPS LOCK KEY. WHAT'S IT FOR?
Seriously though, except for programming/development, or for those who LOVE SHOUTING IN EVERY POST/MSG/ETC BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW BETTER (or those who still program in the original MS-DOS BASIC), I don't see it as a big problem.
Heck, even for programmers (I often type those special "certain things" in ALL CAPS), I still find it easier to simply hold down the shift key (which is actually how I did the capitalized section above). Maybe it's all a matter of the keyboard, but I find on my Model M, it's very easy to hold shift with my pinky and type with the remaining fingers relatively normal.
Well, I am glad I got in my request for one days before this story got posted here. Hopefully that will improve my chances.
Anyway, simple fact is, a lot of things have moved, or will be moving into "the cloud" - especially with the popularity of AndroidOS based phones. I for one never ever ever want to go back to managing and maintaining contacts on a damn cell phone again. Much rather be able to add them "to the cloud" and edit/change them from my PC/phone/whatever from "the cloud" - and replace my phone with another Android based phone (hey, my G1 is definitely up for retirement) and need do nothing but log in. Same goes for a variety of other Google Services.
Whether this laptop is great, sucks, whatever; true cloud computing (ie: forget Microsoft's lame commercials - they understand cloud computing as much as they did/do object oriented programming... inotherwords, not at all)... true cloud computing is going to become a lot more prevalent in this day and age. Jumping on that bandwagon early as it grows is a good thing. If Google doesn't get this right on the first time out, I am sure they will work on improving it.
I can't say what a pleasure it is to read someone gross and incorrect description of how the internals of the hand and wrist work and then come to the wrong conclusions. Seriously, I can't say.
Oh, really? Talk to IBM (who spent a decade on the Model M design) or perhaps doctors who actually studied such things. Or, you could talk out of your ass. In 24 years of using a Model M, I've never had wrist fatigue or finger fatigue or such. Looks like IBM may have been right, and those ten years were worthwhile.
If you want to go all out 1337 you get this: http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate/
I just take the keycaps off mine and leave the blanks on. :-)