Maybe they're discovering classical, jazz, and progressive rock? Who knows
I do, my oldest just turned 21. She listens to rap (she's "learning disabled" with an IQ of 65) while my other daughter (the one with the 130 IQ) listens to ska, punk, and indie music. She does listen to some jazz, classical, and progressive rock as well.
Maybe these 2 kids aren't exactly at the top of the statistical curve, but I think probably most of their friends are.
They don't have the capital to purchase music nor do they have the motivation anymore to go out, get a job, and buy legit music.
You don't get out much, do you? My 19 year old daughter works at GameStop. Almost all of the retail clerks in the mall and grocery stores are teenagers; adults can't afford to live on what they make.
Just because your fatassed kid is lazy doesn't mean they all are.
About your soap box, there ARE bands that put effort and artistry into their music. They just don't publish under the major labels.
Sell MP3s off their website and include them on the store-bought CDs etc.
I don't agree. They should embrace P2P and make their CDs value-added. They should post MP3s for free and describe what you'll get along with the CD; cover art, lyric sheets, guitar tabs, maybe even concert tickets. (BTW and OT concert prices have gone stupid. Paying over a hundred dollars for a two hour show... are you people crazy? In 1969 I saw Delaney and Bonney open for Blind Faith and they all got on stage and performed after the Blind Faith part. Five bucks. In 1977 I saw a 3 act show, Golden Earring opened, followed by Journey, followed by ELO. Three bucks. Note these were bands that were being played on all the radio stations with hit records at the time. You kids are dumb about money and the corporations know it.)
See, the problem is that it used to be the "record industry" and now it's the "music industry". That was an incredibly stupid change on their part; you can't buy music, you can only either rent it or buy its physical container. And I don't like renting, and probably few others do either.
Huh? Vinyl lasted forever and digital doesn't and you consider that "evolution?" I'd call it de-evolution.
In 1969 I worked in a drive-in theater. Tape rentals WERE better than drive-ins so the drive-in died. That's evolution.
And what's worse, the de-evolution is on purpose. When I worked at that drive-in we had a refrigerator manufactured in the 1920s. These days you're lucky to have a frige last fifteen years. That's not evolution, it's thieft.
So you dont love every single song on every album you bought. how is this different in the digital age?
The opnly difference is quantity. I got burned by albums with one good song once or twice, and stopped buying albums unless I'd heard the whole thing.
There isn't one single crappy Led Zepplin album. There is one crappy Hendrix song. We used to have lots and lots of full albums of great listening, or at least one side. It seems to have gone away for some reason, as did the concept album and the 15 or 20 minute song.
There have always been better and worse tracks on most albums.
But all albums sold weren't simply random collections of unrelated tunes like today. We used to have "albums" that were meant to be listened to from beginning to end, or the side from beginning to end; The Who's Tommy, The Beatles Magical Mystery Tour, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon and in fact most albums made in the era.
It's funny, but there's only one Jimi Hendrix song I don't like. No Zepplin songs I don't like. Where are their kind today?
There were, as you say, always albums like today's CDs, simply collections of songs. BUt we used to have albums that were more than this, it's gone by the wayside. I think it's sad.
I'm 54, I've noticed that when folks in their 20s put money in a bar's jukebox they usually pick the same 70s songs I listened to when I was in my 20s (and still do). Too bad nobody in the recording industry has noticed this, if (and I doubt) they're smart enough to notice.
Not every song is a "hit,"
...and that is the exact problem. They're no longer making art, they're making product. Pink Floyd never tried to make a "hit", although their later albums were hits. When Aerosmith's first album came out I didn't buy it. When I heard the whole thing I did - the only song I didn't like was "Dream On", that sappy piece of unrock shit that was the only song the radio was playing.
But I've never been good about following the crowd. In fact, I hate crowds.
When you open your CD tray you're loosing your CD. When you drop it out of your car accidentally you're losing it.
I don't mind typos unless they change the meaning of what you're trying to communicate. Lose <> loose. When you let your dog out of his collar you're loosing him. When he runs away you're losing him.
DRM isn't just evil, it's stupid. Nerds don't usually put up with stupid. As long as there is an internet DRM will never ever work. All DRM does is inconvinience the paying customer, not the commercial "pirate". Nerds know this, I wish you RIAA employees would learn it.
DRM on a compressed music file is especially imbecilic because all it takes to break is a CD player and a patch cord, and one person to have figured that out. Right now I'm listening to an MP3 I made from a CD that I copied from a cassette that I'd copied from another cassette, and it sounds exactly like it would have had I repurchased the cassette in CD form and ripped form it, and likely better than an AAC I could buy from iTunes.
The parent said, plain and simple, that DRM is causing the music industry to lose business - his. You industry cokesniffers are NOT going to convince anyone with a 3 digit IQ that DRM is acceptable any more than you'll convince them that fire is cold and water is dry.
DRM is not making you a single sale; not one. It has beeen shown to you that it is costing you sales, yet you still insist on your fantasy. If you would stop the DRM nonsense (and produce a better product at a less unfair price) your sales would increase dramatically.
You're pitiful. I'd cry for your industry's stupidity if it weren't for its lack of ethics and morals. As it is, I'm rooting for it to die (especially Sony!) so a better system can take hold.
Right, stealing was made illegal by the government. Thou shall not...
You don't think the ancient Hebrews had government? Yes, it was a theocracy but so what?
I'm also curious why you used "steal" rather than "commit adultery" or "have no other gods before me".
Laws are codifications of things people want.
Yes, in a monarchy the people are the kings and their families, not the rest of the populace.
Prohibition was driven by people and codified.
That's what the history books say (at least the one I read about the period), but my grandma was there, live and in person. She said the women jawboned it into law while the men were all in Europe fighting the Kaiser. "People" think copyrights should last two or three lifetimes- a few thousand media moguls and their bought and paid for congress, as opposed to the 300000000 other Americans.
I'm sure the British populace would, if put to a vote, repeal their stupid TV tax.
"The people" as in "all of us" as opposed to "a few of us" went away long before I was born, if it ever in fact existed.
You know, you can discuss an issue or argue. The GP is discussing, you're arguing. His point is NO MONEY IS LOST. He's not arguing that downloading's not wrong (although I have argued such), he's arguing that you are either stupid or disingenuous.
We're talking about kids here, you can't expect them to act like responsible adults because THEY'RE NOT.
Admittedly it's a nice bonus for Coke fans, but are kids just wasting their money on false economy and unhealthy drinks?
As opposed to that health food drink "tea"? They're both flavored water with added sugar, the only real difference is cola is carbonated. Last I heard, CO2 has no calories, fat, salt, carbohydrates, or cholesterol.
The problem is that DRM does not work. There isn't a single tune on iTunes or anywhere else that you can't get from P2P. Those who want to use Kazaa use Kazaa. DRM only inconviniences those who are paying for the files and doesn't affect the P2P downloader one teensy bit.
DRM is stupid, as is anyone who would lock their art in it. DRM doesn't save one single sale or prevent one single illegal download, but it DOES cost sales. Lets see, I can have a free, unencumbered copy of that file or an expensive one with restrictions. Really hard choice there, eh?
The recording (yours, I'm sure) industry is run by witless, amoral, unethical people whose mothers should have used birth control.
From Frederick Lewis Allen's informal history of the 1920s Only Yesterday:
A FIRST-CLASS REVOLT AGAINST THE accepted American order was certainly taking place during those early years of the Post-war Decade, but it was one with which Nikolai Lenin had nothing whatever to do. The shock troops of the rebellion were not alien agitators, but the sons and daughters of well-to-do American families, who knew little about Bolshevism and cared distinctly less, and their defiance was expressed not in obscure radical publications or in soap-box speeches, but right across the family breakfast table into the horrified ears of conservative fathers and mothers. Men and women were still shivering at the Red Menace when they awoke to the no less alarming Problem of the Younger Generation, and realized that if the constitution were not in danger, the moral code of the country certainly was.
Parents' fault, I guess. I remember seeing a quote somewhere from one of the ancient Greeks decrying youth, but I can't find a citation.
It's ironic that people who use P2P to download movies ripped from DVD's will never see the message so all the message does is annoy the paying customer.
All DRM is like that. It doesn't even slow down the folks who are selling counterfeits (REAL thieft, not just copyright infringement) in the least, it only affects those who paid for the thing in the first place.
Odd how we never had DRM until this century, yet the media people are still in business.
Not true. My ATM card is not a credit card, but I can use it as one (even though the machine asks TWICE at the checkout if you tell it credit; use it as credit and they pay the fee, use it as debit and you pay).
In th eUS at least, nost ATM xards are like this.
I can also use both my credit cards as debit cards to get (expensive) cash out of an ATM.
Why would a kid spend money (a very limited resource for kids) on something they could get for free?
Because they don't know the value of money. Some adults don't, either. Ever seen someone buy bottled water? A bottle of the same stuff that falls out of the sky for free and out of your tap for a negligible cost people are willing to pay more for than gasoline!
How is it possible to run up debt from a debit card?
When you do it with a paper check it's called "bouncing" and it costs a hell of a lot more than any legit interest rate; bounce a ten dollar check and you're charged forty bucks or more. That's a 400% interest!
I'd say that's a BIG debt.
My bank has what they call "overdraft protection". Slick and evil, made for fools.
Now thankfully, when I was a teenager, illegally downloading music was just starting to become big, but it was something my dad was still doing too, so he didn't care.
Thanks for reminding me how damned old I am, kid. When I was a teenager there wasn't an internet, nor CDs. We would tape each others' albums; I had ten times as many hpme made tapes as I did actual albums.
And it was legal. The corporations had yet to completely buy out the world's governments like thay have since done.
I hear that, man. What I feel like driving changes from day to day. It's not economically viable for me to own every car model made so when I see a car I want to drive I just make a copy of it. If I like it enough maybe I'll buy it.
See how stupid that sounds? What's troubling is that in the future it may well be feasable; billions of nanorobots that can build nanorobots or anything else, and anyone can have anything they want (Star Trek replicators?).
It will end poverty. And you bastards will fight it tooth and nail.
You can get MP3s off the radio; it's a lot less hassle than downloading. Connect your radio's headphone jack to your sound card's line in jack, turn on EAC and go about your business. In St Louis you can get 7 albums this way from KSHE every Sunday night, often before they're even available in the stores. It's not CD quality, but neither is MP3. Once you've converted the wav to MP3 your file is every bit as good as one from Limewire or iTunes. What's better, they're usually 20th century albums with a lot less science and a lot more art.
You can also rip CDs, LPs, and tapes you've bought, shoplifted, or checked out from the library.
Or you can tell the pigopolists to kiss your ass and stop listening to their wares altogether. Not hard to do these days; the only major label band I've heard this century that's any good is Buckcherry. I buy my CDs from the local bands who cut them; imo they're better than the pig's shit, probably because they do it artistically out of love of music rather than as a soulless calculated way of making cash. This century's music is formulaic and repetitive; it all sounds like advertising jingles.
Or you can download music from bands who WANT you to download it. Haves some free music courtesy of some friends of mine. Album names link to M3U playlists, and the other links are to MP3s. Click to play, or right click to download (may vary depending on browser or operating system)
It's like arguing that listening to the radio first results in lost sales.
Note the GP put "illegally" in quotes, and it should be in quotes. In some countries downloading is illegal, but in most it's uploading that's illegal.
In fact, the US Congress (unwittingly?) legalized downloading with the No Electronic Thieft Act, which says it's illegal to download more than (iirc) $2k worth of stuff in a 6 month period. That's 2000 songe every six months. Set Limewire to not share downloaded files and you're legal.
The idea that someone lost a sale on a song you never had any intention of buying is ludicrous.
Slashdot Mirror
Nonsense, nerds were reading Dune long before Star Wars was filmed. The copyright says 1965.
Maybe they're discovering classical, jazz, and progressive rock? Who knows
I do, my oldest just turned 21. She listens to rap (she's "learning disabled" with an IQ of 65) while my other daughter (the one with the 130 IQ) listens to ska, punk, and indie music. She does listen to some jazz, classical, and progressive rock as well.
Maybe these 2 kids aren't exactly at the top of the statistical curve, but I think probably most of their friends are.
They don't have the capital to purchase music nor do they have the motivation anymore to go out, get a job, and buy legit music.
You don't get out much, do you? My 19 year old daughter works at GameStop. Almost all of the retail clerks in the mall and grocery stores are teenagers; adults can't afford to live on what they make.
Just because your fatassed kid is lazy doesn't mean they all are.
About your soap box, there ARE bands that put effort and artistry into their music. They just don't publish under the major labels.
Sell MP3s off their website and include them on the store-bought CDs etc.
I don't agree. They should embrace P2P and make their CDs value-added. They should post MP3s for free and describe what you'll get along with the CD; cover art, lyric sheets, guitar tabs, maybe even concert tickets. (BTW and OT concert prices have gone stupid. Paying over a hundred dollars for a two hour show... are you people crazy? In 1969 I saw Delaney and Bonney open for Blind Faith and they all got on stage and performed after the Blind Faith part. Five bucks. In 1977 I saw a 3 act show, Golden Earring opened, followed by Journey, followed by ELO. Three bucks. Note these were bands that were being played on all the radio stations with hit records at the time. You kids are dumb about money and the corporations know it.)
See, the problem is that it used to be the "record industry" and now it's the "music industry". That was an incredibly stupid change on their part; you can't buy music, you can only either rent it or buy its physical container. And I don't like renting, and probably few others do either.
Huh? Vinyl lasted forever and digital doesn't and you consider that "evolution?" I'd call it de-evolution.
In 1969 I worked in a drive-in theater. Tape rentals WERE better than drive-ins so the drive-in died. That's evolution.
And what's worse, the de-evolution is on purpose. When I worked at that drive-in we had a refrigerator manufactured in the 1920s. These days you're lucky to have a frige last fifteen years. That's not evolution, it's thieft.
So you dont love every single song on every album you bought. how is this different in the digital age?
The opnly difference is quantity. I got burned by albums with one good song once or twice, and stopped buying albums unless I'd heard the whole thing.
There isn't one single crappy Led Zepplin album. There is one crappy Hendrix song. We used to have lots and lots of full albums of great listening, or at least one side. It seems to have gone away for some reason, as did the concept album and the 15 or 20 minute song.
But all albums sold weren't simply random collections of unrelated tunes like today. We used to have "albums" that were meant to be listened to from beginning to end, or the side from beginning to end; The Who's Tommy, The Beatles Magical Mystery Tour, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon and in fact most albums made in the era.
It's funny, but there's only one Jimi Hendrix song I don't like. No Zepplin songs I don't like. Where are their kind today?
There were, as you say, always albums like today's CDs, simply collections of songs. BUt we used to have albums that were more than this, it's gone by the wayside. I think it's sad.
I'm 54, I've noticed that when folks in their 20s put money in a bar's jukebox they usually pick the same 70s songs I listened to when I was in my 20s (and still do). Too bad nobody in the recording industry has noticed this, if (and I doubt) they're smart enough to notice.
Not every song is a "hit,"
But I've never been good about following the crowd. In fact, I hate crowds.
When you buy a CD, and then you loose it
When you open your CD tray you're loosing your CD. When you drop it out of your car accidentally you're losing it.
I don't mind typos unless they change the meaning of what you're trying to communicate. Lose <> loose. When you let your dog out of his collar you're loosing him. When he runs away you're losing him.
Don't say "car" when you mean "cat."
open-source DRM is flat-out impossible
So is closed source DRM, with music at least. There isn't a CD out there that can't be ripped, or a WMA that can't be resampled.
DRM isn't just evil, it's stupid. Nerds don't usually put up with stupid. As long as there is an internet DRM will never ever work. All DRM does is inconvinience the paying customer, not the commercial "pirate". Nerds know this, I wish you RIAA employees would learn it.
DRM on a compressed music file is especially imbecilic because all it takes to break is a CD player and a patch cord, and one person to have figured that out. Right now I'm listening to an MP3 I made from a CD that I copied from a cassette that I'd copied from another cassette, and it sounds exactly like it would have had I repurchased the cassette in CD form and ripped form it, and likely better than an AAC I could buy from iTunes.
The parent said, plain and simple, that DRM is causing the music industry to lose business - his. You industry cokesniffers are NOT going to convince anyone with a 3 digit IQ that DRM is acceptable any more than you'll convince them that fire is cold and water is dry.
DRM is not making you a single sale; not one. It has beeen shown to you that it is costing you sales, yet you still insist on your fantasy. If you would stop the DRM nonsense (and produce a better product at a less unfair price) your sales would increase dramatically.
You're pitiful. I'd cry for your industry's stupidity if it weren't for its lack of ethics and morals. As it is, I'm rooting for it to die (especially Sony!) so a better system can take hold.
Right, stealing was made illegal by the government. Thou shall not...
You don't think the ancient Hebrews had government? Yes, it was a theocracy but so what?
I'm also curious why you used "steal" rather than "commit adultery" or "have no other gods before me".
Laws are codifications of things people want.
Yes, in a monarchy the people are the kings and their families, not the rest of the populace.
Prohibition was driven by people and codified.
That's what the history books say (at least the one I read about the period), but my grandma was there, live and in person. She said the women jawboned it into law while the men were all in Europe fighting the Kaiser. "People" think copyrights should last two or three lifetimes- a few thousand media moguls and their bought and paid for congress, as opposed to the 300000000 other Americans.
I'm sure the British populace would, if put to a vote, repeal their stupid TV tax.
"The people" as in "all of us" as opposed to "a few of us" went away long before I was born, if it ever in fact existed.
Most likely. We ARE talking with a D&D playing slashdot nerd here.
You know, you can discuss an issue or argue. The GP is discussing, you're arguing. His point is NO MONEY IS LOST. He's not arguing that downloading's not wrong (although I have argued such), he's arguing that you are either stupid or disingenuous.
We're talking about kids here, you can't expect them to act like responsible adults because THEY'RE NOT.
Admittedly it's a nice bonus for Coke fans, but are kids just wasting their money on false economy and unhealthy drinks?
As opposed to that health food drink "tea"? They're both flavored water with added sugar, the only real difference is cola is carbonated. Last I heard, CO2 has no calories, fat, salt, carbohydrates, or cholesterol.
The problem is that DRM does not work. There isn't a single tune on iTunes or anywhere else that you can't get from P2P. Those who want to use Kazaa use Kazaa. DRM only inconviniences those who are paying for the files and doesn't affect the P2P downloader one teensy bit.
DRM is stupid, as is anyone who would lock their art in it. DRM doesn't save one single sale or prevent one single illegal download, but it DOES cost sales. Lets see, I can have a free, unencumbered copy of that file or an expensive one with restrictions. Really hard choice there, eh?
The recording (yours, I'm sure) industry is run by witless, amoral, unethical people whose mothers should have used birth control.
Parents' fault, I guess. I remember seeing a quote somewhere from one of the ancient Greeks decrying youth, but I can't find a citation.
It's ironic that people who use P2P to download movies ripped from DVD's will never see the message so all the message does is annoy the paying customer.
All DRM is like that. It doesn't even slow down the folks who are selling counterfeits (REAL thieft, not just copyright infringement) in the least, it only affects those who paid for the thing in the first place.
Odd how we never had DRM until this century, yet the media people are still in business.
Not true. My ATM card is not a credit card, but I can use it as one (even though the machine asks TWICE at the checkout if you tell it credit; use it as credit and they pay the fee, use it as debit and you pay).
In th eUS at least, nost ATM xards are like this.
I can also use both my credit cards as debit cards to get (expensive) cash out of an ATM.
Why would a kid spend money (a very limited resource for kids) on something they could get for free?
Because they don't know the value of money. Some adults don't, either. Ever seen someone buy bottled water? A bottle of the same stuff that falls out of the sky for free and out of your tap for a negligible cost people are willing to pay more for than gasoline!
How is it possible to run up debt from a debit card?
When you do it with a paper check it's called "bouncing" and it costs a hell of a lot more than any legit interest rate; bounce a ten dollar check and you're charged forty bucks or more. That's a 400% interest!
I'd say that's a BIG debt.
My bank has what they call "overdraft protection". Slick and evil, made for fools.
Now thankfully, when I was a teenager, illegally downloading music was just starting to become big, but it was something my dad was still doing too, so he didn't care.
Thanks for reminding me how damned old I am, kid. When I was a teenager there wasn't an internet, nor CDs. We would tape each others' albums; I had ten times as many hpme made tapes as I did actual albums.
And it was legal. The corporations had yet to completely buy out the world's governments like thay have since done.
I hear that, man. What I feel like driving changes from day to day. It's not economically viable for me to own every car model made so when I see a car I want to drive I just make a copy of it. If I like it enough maybe I'll buy it.
See how stupid that sounds? What's troubling is that in the future it may well be feasable; billions of nanorobots that can build nanorobots or anything else, and anyone can have anything they want (Star Trek replicators?).
It will end poverty. And you bastards will fight it tooth and nail.
Hey, RIAA shill, I just figured out why your albums suck so bad - you're all shoving piles of cocaine up your nose.
He was specifically talking about sound recording engineers who work for the record companies. Get that goddamned spoon out of your nose.
You can also rip CDs, LPs, and tapes you've bought, shoplifted, or checked out from the library.
Or you can tell the pigopolists to kiss your ass and stop listening to their wares altogether. Not hard to do these days; the only major label band I've heard this century that's any good is Buckcherry. I buy my CDs from the local bands who cut them; imo they're better than the pig's shit, probably because they do it artistically out of love of music rather than as a soulless calculated way of making cash. This century's music is formulaic and repetitive; it all sounds like advertising jingles.
Or you can download music from bands who WANT you to download it. Haves some free music courtesy of some friends of mine. Album names link to M3U playlists, and the other links are to MP3s. Click to play, or right click to download (may vary depending on browser or operating system)
Posamist Live - Volume 1
01-Loom Up.mp3
02-Feelin Alight.mp3
03-Days like These.mp3
04-Gotta Get Over You.mp3
05-The Joker.mp3
06-Long Train Running.mp3
07-What Would you Say.mp3
08-Only One.mp3
09-Redhouse.mp3
10-Silky Smooth.mp3
11-Watchtower.mp3
12-Sweet Home Medley.mp3>
13-Yellow Ledbetter.mp3
Posamist Live - Volume 2
01-Gotta get over you.mp3
02-Loom up.mp3
03-Champagne and Reefer.mp3
04-Only One.mp3
05-Sympathy for the Entertainer
Wow, I screwed that one up. Let me try again.
It's like arguing that listening to the radio first results in lost sales.
Note the GP put "illegally" in quotes, and it should be in quotes. In some countries downloading is illegal, but in most it's uploading that's illegal.
In fact, the US Congress (unwittingly?) legalized downloading with the No Electronic Thieft Act, which says it's illegal to download more than (iirc) $2k worth of stuff in a 6 month period. That's 2000 songe every six months. Set Limewire to not share downloaded files and you're legal.
The idea that someone lost a sale on a song you never had any intention of buying is ludicrous.