>>I've got quite a bit of experience with kids on computers in multiple environments (OSX, Linux, Windows) and it is actually/TOTALLY/ immaterial which OS is in use.
That's completely false. What OS you use almost entirerly defines the computing experience. If you can't find a setting/program, if you don't know how to set PATH variables or use shell, you're not going to be able to use the computer well. Whether you like it or not, any child who comes in with computing experience will have it on Windows. As such, its more benefitial to augment what they know than to start at Square One. The vast majority of those kids will one day use a Windows computer at their job, and we want them to have the skills needed to do that, not turn them into open-source maveriks.
>>As soon as they have mastered using a mouse and become curious about what other apps reside on the machine they will pretty much dive in and work it out, and they do that as early as 6 years old as long as you control the distraction called the Internet (they're too young at that stage to fully comprehend the risks so you keep an eye on them there).
Most of the facilites we install at can't afford internet access. Of course young children will learn to use a computer, so let's teach them how to use the most popular operating system in the world.
>>As a matter of fact, I'd avoid Windows in this context because even a local installation of Linux from scratch takes less time to prepare and maintain than Windows, and you don't have all the license and AV hassle to deal with (your $5 is only a cheap ticket to a very expensive fairground, and MS knows that all too well). For that final bill (AV, apps, cost of licence management and patch maintenance) I can get an extra PC per installed system using Linux.
>>The argument "use Windows like other lemmings" is invalid, especially if you really want to TEACH the kids - I prefer them to use all platforms, even including command lines if they get really curious. Let's not constrain their young and open minds, there will be plenty of politicians trying to do that later.
Our installation team has multiple Unix and Linux experts on it. Yet we still go with a Windows installation. Using n-Lite (an unattended installtion tool) we can build images in a few minutes that self install. $5 is a cheap ticket- and the costs end there. Win 2k has no genuine valiation and such, so there is no license management. And what AV hassle are you talking about? As for AV (I don't know if you mean anti-virus or audio/visual so I'll answer both), there are multiple free Windows virus scanners, and Symantec is very generous with donations as well for some schools. That's right, free. Every major piece of A/V equipment has Windows drivers, so it exteremely easy to use the machines in a classroom. As for apps, we use almost entirerly open source applications (Open Office, etc). So no costs there either.
And you say "MS knows that all too well" as if MS is some evil empire trying to trick you and manipulate you. They're a company that makes a decent software product, that while proprietary, is easy to use FOR THE COMMON PERSON and runs software that A COMMON PERSON NEEDS (and without WINE). For crying out loud Linux people just don't understand that with 95.06% (that's from the other day) of the market using some Windows operating system, it will be so much more benefitial to these underprivledged kids if we train them on something RELEVANT that they're going to use in their jobs and everyday life! As part of the cirriculum of course we teach them about computers as a whole (CPU, bus, RAM, the whole nine yards) and so they know what an operating system is when they sit down and get to explore Windows for the first time. But don't give me this heady bull about contraining young minds when we're trying to expose them to technology and computers they'd have no access to otherwise. What possible benefit would there be with inner city Philadelphia high school students graduating with a w
The Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher (MAR) program is great- $5 Windows 2000 licenses. My organization is a member and we install Windows on all our recycled machines that get put in school and non-profits. Half the point is that the kids get to use computers/gain skills they can use in real life work situations, which will most likely be Windows. Not to mention teachers are familiar with Windows, and applications the school uses all run on it.
EMC Documentum is the choice of the Fortune 500 I work for- but we have of late been testing 2007 Sharepoint rollouts linking to the docbases. All you version control and document management is primarily through Documentum, while the collaboration itself occurs in Sharepoint (not to mention Sharepoints links with Outlook, etc). Documentum is true enterprise content management software though, and might not be appropriate for a smaller business. EMC makes eRoom as well, which at leat has some version control and collaboration features.
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>>I've got quite a bit of experience with kids on computers in multiple environments (OSX, Linux, Windows) and it is actually /TOTALLY/ immaterial which OS is in use.
That's completely false. What OS you use almost entirerly defines the computing experience. If you can't find a setting/program, if you don't know how to set PATH variables or use shell, you're not going to be able to use the computer well. Whether you like it or not, any child who comes in with computing experience will have it on Windows. As such, its more benefitial to augment what they know than to start at Square One. The vast majority of those kids will one day use a Windows computer at their job, and we want them to have the skills needed to do that, not turn them into open-source maveriks.
>>As soon as they have mastered using a mouse and become curious about what other apps reside on the machine they will pretty much dive in and work it out, and they do that as early as 6 years old as long as you control the distraction called the Internet (they're too young at that stage to fully comprehend the risks so you keep an eye on them there).
Most of the facilites we install at can't afford internet access. Of course young children will learn to use a computer, so let's teach them how to use the most popular operating system in the world.
>>As a matter of fact, I'd avoid Windows in this context because even a local installation of Linux from scratch takes less time to prepare and maintain than Windows, and you don't have all the license and AV hassle to deal with (your $5 is only a cheap ticket to a very expensive fairground, and MS knows that all too well). For that final bill (AV, apps, cost of licence management and patch maintenance) I can get an extra PC per installed system using Linux.
>>The argument "use Windows like other lemmings" is invalid, especially if you really want to TEACH the kids - I prefer them to use all platforms, even including command lines if they get really curious. Let's not constrain their young and open minds, there will be plenty of politicians trying to do that later.
Our installation team has multiple Unix and Linux experts on it. Yet we still go with a Windows installation. Using n-Lite (an unattended installtion tool) we can build images in a few minutes that self install. $5 is a cheap ticket- and the costs end there. Win 2k has no genuine valiation and such, so there is no license management. And what AV hassle are you talking about? As for AV (I don't know if you mean anti-virus or audio/visual so I'll answer both), there are multiple free Windows virus scanners, and Symantec is very generous with donations as well for some schools. That's right, free. Every major piece of A/V equipment has Windows drivers, so it exteremely easy to use the machines in a classroom. As for apps, we use almost entirerly open source applications (Open Office, etc). So no costs there either.
And you say "MS knows that all too well" as if MS is some evil empire trying to trick you and manipulate you. They're a company that makes a decent software product, that while proprietary, is easy to use FOR THE COMMON PERSON and runs software that A COMMON PERSON NEEDS (and without WINE). For crying out loud Linux people just don't understand that with 95.06% (that's from the other day) of the market using some Windows operating system, it will be so much more benefitial to these underprivledged kids if we train them on something RELEVANT that they're going to use in their jobs and everyday life! As part of the cirriculum of course we teach them about computers as a whole (CPU, bus, RAM, the whole nine yards) and so they know what an operating system is when they sit down and get to explore Windows for the first time. But don't give me this heady bull about contraining young minds when we're trying to expose them to technology and computers they'd have no access to otherwise. What possible benefit would there be with inner city Philadelphia high school students graduating with a w
The Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher (MAR) program is great- $5 Windows 2000 licenses. My organization is a member and we install Windows on all our recycled machines that get put in school and non-profits. Half the point is that the kids get to use computers/gain skills they can use in real life work situations, which will most likely be Windows. Not to mention teachers are familiar with Windows, and applications the school uses all run on it.
EMC Documentum is the choice of the Fortune 500 I work for- but we have of late been testing 2007 Sharepoint rollouts linking to the docbases. All you version control and document management is primarily through Documentum, while the collaboration itself occurs in Sharepoint (not to mention Sharepoints links with Outlook, etc). Documentum is true enterprise content management software though, and might not be appropriate for a smaller business. EMC makes eRoom as well, which at leat has some version control and collaboration features.