I haven't said that anyone should work for my benefit for free.
Every time someone pirates something, that is exactly what they are saying.
What's not fine is thinking that you can skirt the laws of economics. Zero marginal cost leads to zero marginal price. Period.
No. You are saying that the original, and the time and effort leading to create the work are worthless. And that's just not true. Further, it does back up the fact that you are telling people to give you their labor for free.
We have machines that can create copies for zero cost. The price the market will bear is therefore zero. Period. You're going to have to deal with it, whining to me about how unfair it is isn't going to change anything.
If you're unhappy with that deal, get a job where you earn an hourly wage. I won't miss you or your creative output.
So you say you are not an asshole, and then you say go fuck yourself. Nice.
For one, we don't live in a perfect market society. So your ranting about "the market" doesn't really apply either.
I guess reading comprehension is not your strong point. I did not say that there was no scarcity of creativity, I said that there is no scarcity of the products of that creativity. That means that new ways of monetizing creativity must be developed.
I guess reading comprehension is not your strong point either. If you believe in what you said, you should have no problem finding works by people who believe likewise. Anything else, and you are forcing your beliefs onto others.
Yeah, calling people "assholes" is going to solve the problem.
Sorry I'm calling a spade a spade.
Assholes refused to wave red flags in front of their cars, assholes sent email instead of paying for postage, and assholes used digital cameras instead of film, and yet you are not complaining about those lost jobs or ruined industries, are you?
No, just no. That is a horse shit argument. Further, it doesn't back you up at all. Not a single one of those things involved you forcing your beliefs onto others like you are trying to do with piracy. Try again. And this time, come up with a justification for why you deserve the product of someone's labor for free.
No, it doesn't. If anyone is lazy in this scenario, its you. Again, you are not entitled to the fruits of their labor. You can either take it at their price, or leave it. Or should I be able to name my price for your labor, even if I choose to name 0 as my price?
this entitled snot works EVERY DAY, whereas the people you are defending to be working (constantly touring my ASS), are indulging themselves with 1 album a year.
You have absolutely nothing to back that up. And again, nobody is forcing you to take their work. You are perfectly free to go without.
working their asses off ? so, youre saying that someone who tours with a groupie bus/plane, works their ass of ?
Have you ever done it? No, that would require you to actually do something. Yes, it is actually hard work.
tell that 'musicians work their ass off' to some server admin in some dark datacenter corner, keeping the infrastructure that runs the internet you post on, up, and see how fast you would be beaten to pulp.
Why don't I turn the reverse on you, and tell you to go and create works of art that people actually want to see you perform live. What? You can't do that? Thought so.
just shut the fuck up. you are representing everything that is wrong with that culture of laziness.
Said the guy who feels entitled to the results of someone else's work for free.
when artists work EVERY DAY for REAL, and instead do not reap the benefits of something they did 10 years ago over and over and over and over, motherfucker, they can get my money.
If you're not going to give them money, then why should you get the benefit of their work? Honestly, why should you get the fruits of their labor if you will not pay for it? You still have not answered this question, choosing instead to go on pointless rants about you being too entitled and lazy to pay someone for their work.
Again, no one is forcing you to take their work. You can easily leave it. I don't care what kind of bug you have up your ass regarding how much they "work", that does not entitle you to take their work for free. That attitude makes you nothing more than an asshole.
And as for "Real work", I bet I could find a number of construction workers who would consider what you do to be "lazy" and "not real work". Who the fuck are you to decide what "real work" is?
No, your argument is absolutely retarded, and doesn't hold water.
Here's the deal: You don't like the terms someone has put their work out under? GO WITHOUT. It's really quite simple. Why are you making this so difficult? Why do you feel entitled to the fruits of their labor for free?
No, you're not. Or are you going to come over to my house and clean for free? Because you're saying you deserve their hard work for free, so why don't I deserve your hard work for free?
You really can't stand that can you?
No, I can't stand assholes like you not only deciding that you deserve the fruits of their labor for free, but getting all uppity about it, like somehow you are the one in the right. That anyone who would call you out on your childishness is wrong.
The truth is that it's not their work.
No, it is. They are the ones that created it. All you did was sit on your ass. If you want to put stuff out in the Public Domain, you are completely free to. But that would involve you actually getting off your ass and doing something.
A labourer doesn't get paid every time someone walks on the bridge he helped build
So? He does get paid every time he builds a bridge.
Demanding compensation over and over and over again is the real theft.
No, it's not. You are perfectly free to go without. But that never occurred to you, did it? Your childish little mind thought that you should have everything you want, doesn't it?
This middle men stealing from the public, pure and simple and they have the gall to call the people thieves.
No. Just no. You are demanding access to someone else's work, and you are acting quite upset when they ask you to compensate them for it. You're the one with the gall here, not them.
Fuck off. I also agree that copyright terms are too long. But that in no way justifies you being an asshole and saying you deserve their work for free.
Don't like current copyright? Don't like the people who use it? Then work to change it, and go without their media. There is plenty of media out there by people who feel like you do, and don't want to abuse copyright.
You've just said that pirates are asshole babies that, when they don't get what they want, they throw a tantrum. And that doesn't justify what they're doing.
I'm sorry, but that's not a valid excuse. I also disagree with the length of copyright as it is today. Doesn't mean I feel entitled to just take shit.
If you don't agree with the length of copyright, or how the copyright holders choose to act, then go without their stuff. There is plenty of stuff out there by people who don't act that way.
What you're looking for is the pirate saying, "I deserve access to your hard work FOR FREE!" You're not going to find it.
Because you conveniently glossed over that part, dumbass. You completely forgot the part where the work is up on the Pirate Bay, and people do download it, because they feel entitled to the artist's work FOR FREE.
Seriously, your entire premise is retarded. You're saying that since the pirate asshole put effort into copying the work, he deserves to keep and sell his copies? Fuck no, that's not how it works.
Your post still doesn't make any sense, because you start from an absolutely absurd premise. And your smug "are you still with me" parts just serve to make you look like an asshole.
Furthermore, you seem to be tarring all "pirates" with the same brush.
Because they're all doing the same thing. I don't see any reason to allow someone who "Would never buy it anyway" to have access to the work, any more than someone who's just "trying before they buy". If you don't want the item at the price the author has put it at, go without. Plain and simple.
I don't have the highest income, so I won't buy *anything* without watching it first.
If they don't want to offer it that way, why do you feel entitled to take it like that?
The more convenient businesses make access to IP for consumers, the more people who will pay rather than seek out the alternatives.
I agree wholeheartedly. Doesn't change the fact that pirates are assholes who seem entitled to something without paying for it.
if an author works for 2 years, and stop working for the rest of the decade, he still gets millions.
No, he doesn't. He only gets money if people continue to buy and use his work. If no one wants his work, he gets nothing.
comparing the time author spends working, and i spend working, i am already WORKING FOR FREE.................
No, you're not. You've got a weekly/monthly paycheck. You're going to get paid. The author does not have such a thing. They spend time of their life creating something, and then attempt to sell it. If nobody wants it, they don't get anything. So they are taking quite a risk.
Again, go work for free for a while. That's what you're expecting the authors to do.
Well, don't we all? Not necessarily for Apple products, but I'm sure just about all of us would be happier if the carriers were to just act like dumb pipes, regardless of what tech we use.
You've essentially said that others should work for your benefit for free. That makes you an asshole.
Tell me, where do you work for free? Because if you're going to take someone's work without paying for it, the least you could do is give a few months of your labor for free.
I like your constant attempts to justify that you're an asshole.
Tell me, are you prepared to go over to someone's company and code for free for a while? Unless you're a hypocrite, you'll say yes. Because it's a "new world" with "new realities". You'd best get over it.
I don't give a shit. None of that gives you the right to essentially take their work for free.
i dont see the right of a musician or artist, to write one song a year, go to 1-2 concerts, and take the rest of the year off.
Only an entitled little snot like you would actually think this is what happens. Most artists are CONSTANTLY touring, performing, and basically working their asses off. Whether or not you want to admit this is irrelevant: You are not entitled to their work without compensation.
until i can also have that kind of thing, i dont recognize their right to do it. period.
Then either go without, or be prepared to work for free yourself, asshole.
No. Just no. Simply because I don't agree with your idea that pirating assholes are entitled to the work of others without compensation, I'm a "control freak"?
If you're going to use someone's work, then you should pay them for it, plain and simple. If you don't want to pay, don't use it. End of story.
After a length of time which the author is allowed to try and make money off it. Pirating assholes are trying to tell the author that they don't even get that.
Actually, I do deserve the work for free, at some point.
That point is quite a ways off. While I agree that current copyright terms are far too long, the point is, most pirates are benefiting from the work long before any reasonable copyright terms would have worn off.
Ok, and how about we get you to work for free? Because that's what you're expecting the author to do. What's that? You don't want to work for free? Well then why should piracy, which makes the author work for free, be ok then?
I'm sorry, but you're saying "There's no right to profit" in a thread talking about others feeling entitled to the works of others for free. That makes your point worthless.
While an author doesn't have an immediate "right to profit", if you take/use/read/whatever their work, you should pay them for it. If you don't want to pay them for it, go without the work. Anything else is the "market" failing.
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I haven't said that anyone should work for my benefit for free.
Every time someone pirates something, that is exactly what they are saying.
What's not fine is thinking that you can skirt the laws of economics. Zero marginal cost leads to zero marginal price. Period.
No. You are saying that the original, and the time and effort leading to create the work are worthless. And that's just not true. Further, it does back up the fact that you are telling people to give you their labor for free.
We have machines that can create copies for zero cost. The price the market will bear is therefore zero. Period. You're going to have to deal with it, whining to me about how unfair it is isn't going to change anything.
If you're unhappy with that deal, get a job where you earn an hourly wage. I won't miss you or your creative output.
So you say you are not an asshole, and then you say go fuck yourself. Nice.
For one, we don't live in a perfect market society. So your ranting about "the market" doesn't really apply either.
I guess reading comprehension is not your strong point. I did not say that there was no scarcity of creativity, I said that there is no scarcity of the products of that creativity. That means that new ways of monetizing creativity must be developed.
I guess reading comprehension is not your strong point either. If you believe in what you said, you should have no problem finding works by people who believe likewise. Anything else, and you are forcing your beliefs onto others.
Yeah, calling people "assholes" is going to solve the problem.
Sorry I'm calling a spade a spade.
Assholes refused to wave red flags in front of their cars, assholes sent email instead of paying for postage, and assholes used digital cameras instead of film, and yet you are not complaining about those lost jobs or ruined industries, are you?
No, just no. That is a horse shit argument. Further, it doesn't back you up at all. Not a single one of those things involved you forcing your beliefs onto others like you are trying to do with piracy. Try again. And this time, come up with a justification for why you deserve the product of someone's labor for free.
So? Why does that matter? How does that change whether they are entitled to your work for free or not?
it does. you are not entitled to laziness.
No, it doesn't. If anyone is lazy in this scenario, its you. Again, you are not entitled to the fruits of their labor. You can either take it at their price, or leave it. Or should I be able to name my price for your labor, even if I choose to name 0 as my price?
this entitled snot works EVERY DAY, whereas the people you are defending to be working (constantly touring my ASS), are indulging themselves with 1 album a year.
You have absolutely nothing to back that up. And again, nobody is forcing you to take their work. You are perfectly free to go without.
working their asses off ? so, youre saying that someone who tours with a groupie bus/plane, works their ass of ?
Have you ever done it? No, that would require you to actually do something. Yes, it is actually hard work.
tell that 'musicians work their ass off' to some server admin in some dark datacenter corner, keeping the infrastructure that runs the internet you post on, up, and see how fast you would be beaten to pulp.
Why don't I turn the reverse on you, and tell you to go and create works of art that people actually want to see you perform live. What? You can't do that? Thought so.
just shut the fuck up. you are representing everything that is wrong with that culture of laziness.
Said the guy who feels entitled to the results of someone else's work for free.
when artists work EVERY DAY for REAL, and instead do not reap the benefits of something they did 10 years ago over and over and over and over, motherfucker, they can get my money.
If you're not going to give them money, then why should you get the benefit of their work? Honestly, why should you get the fruits of their labor if you will not pay for it? You still have not answered this question, choosing instead to go on pointless rants about you being too entitled and lazy to pay someone for their work.
Again, no one is forcing you to take their work. You can easily leave it. I don't care what kind of bug you have up your ass regarding how much they "work", that does not entitle you to take their work for free. That attitude makes you nothing more than an asshole.
And as for "Real work", I bet I could find a number of construction workers who would consider what you do to be "lazy" and "not real work". Who the fuck are you to decide what "real work" is?
No, your argument is absolutely retarded, and doesn't hold water.
Here's the deal: You don't like the terms someone has put their work out under? GO WITHOUT. It's really quite simple. Why are you making this so difficult? Why do you feel entitled to the fruits of their labor for free?
Yes, you are.
No, you're not. Or are you going to come over to my house and clean for free? Because you're saying you deserve their hard work for free, so why don't I deserve your hard work for free?
You really can't stand that can you?
No, I can't stand assholes like you not only deciding that you deserve the fruits of their labor for free, but getting all uppity about it, like somehow you are the one in the right. That anyone who would call you out on your childishness is wrong.
The truth is that it's not their work.
No, it is. They are the ones that created it. All you did was sit on your ass. If you want to put stuff out in the Public Domain, you are completely free to. But that would involve you actually getting off your ass and doing something.
A labourer doesn't get paid every time someone walks on the bridge he helped build
So? He does get paid every time he builds a bridge.
Demanding compensation over and over and over again is the real theft.
No, it's not. You are perfectly free to go without. But that never occurred to you, did it? Your childish little mind thought that you should have everything you want, doesn't it?
This middle men stealing from the public, pure and simple and they have the gall to call the people thieves.
No. Just no. You are demanding access to someone else's work, and you are acting quite upset when they ask you to compensate them for it. You're the one with the gall here, not them.
Fuck off. I also agree that copyright terms are too long. But that in no way justifies you being an asshole and saying you deserve their work for free.
Don't like current copyright? Don't like the people who use it? Then work to change it, and go without their media. There is plenty of media out there by people who feel like you do, and don't want to abuse copyright.
You've just said that pirates are asshole babies that, when they don't get what they want, they throw a tantrum. And that doesn't justify what they're doing.
I'm sorry, but that's not a valid excuse. I also disagree with the length of copyright as it is today. Doesn't mean I feel entitled to just take shit.
If you don't agree with the length of copyright, or how the copyright holders choose to act, then go without their stuff. There is plenty of stuff out there by people who don't act that way.
What you're looking for is the pirate saying, "I deserve access to your hard work FOR FREE!" You're not going to find it.
Because you conveniently glossed over that part, dumbass. You completely forgot the part where the work is up on the Pirate Bay, and people do download it, because they feel entitled to the artist's work FOR FREE.
Seriously, your entire premise is retarded. You're saying that since the pirate asshole put effort into copying the work, he deserves to keep and sell his copies? Fuck no, that's not how it works.
Your post still doesn't make any sense, because you start from an absolutely absurd premise. And your smug "are you still with me" parts just serve to make you look like an asshole.
YOU ARE WRONG, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
Furthermore, you seem to be tarring all "pirates" with the same brush.
Because they're all doing the same thing. I don't see any reason to allow someone who "Would never buy it anyway" to have access to the work, any more than someone who's just "trying before they buy". If you don't want the item at the price the author has put it at, go without. Plain and simple.
I don't have the highest income, so I won't buy *anything* without watching it first.
If they don't want to offer it that way, why do you feel entitled to take it like that?
The more convenient businesses make access to IP for consumers, the more people who will pay rather than seek out the alternatives.
I agree wholeheartedly. Doesn't change the fact that pirates are assholes who seem entitled to something without paying for it.
if an author works for 2 years, and stop working for the rest of the decade, he still gets millions.
No, he doesn't. He only gets money if people continue to buy and use his work. If no one wants his work, he gets nothing.
comparing the time author spends working, and i spend working, i am already WORKING FOR FREE. ................
No, you're not. You've got a weekly/monthly paycheck. You're going to get paid. The author does not have such a thing. They spend time of their life creating something, and then attempt to sell it. If nobody wants it, they don't get anything. So they are taking quite a risk.
Again, go work for free for a while. That's what you're expecting the authors to do.
I already do this with T-Mobile, and have done for years.
Well, don't we all? Not necessarily for Apple products, but I'm sure just about all of us would be happier if the carriers were to just act like dumb pipes, regardless of what tech we use.
You've essentially said that others should work for your benefit for free. That makes you an asshole.
Tell me, where do you work for free? Because if you're going to take someone's work without paying for it, the least you could do is give a few months of your labor for free.
and there is no scarcity of entertainment or of the equipment needed to copy entertainment
If that's true, then you should have no problem finding entertainment that artists are willingly giving away. No need to pirate.
people are not going to stop downloading things.
That's still not a justification for you being an asshole.
And the entire rest of your post is you justifying being an asshole. Tell me, if you expect them to work for free, why don't you?
I like your constant attempts to justify that you're an asshole.
Tell me, are you prepared to go over to someone's company and code for free for a while? Unless you're a hypocrite, you'll say yes. Because it's a "new world" with "new realities". You'd best get over it.
I don't give a shit. None of that gives you the right to essentially take their work for free.
i dont see the right of a musician or artist, to write one song a year, go to 1-2 concerts, and take the rest of the year off.
Only an entitled little snot like you would actually think this is what happens. Most artists are CONSTANTLY touring, performing, and basically working their asses off. Whether or not you want to admit this is irrelevant: You are not entitled to their work without compensation.
until i can also have that kind of thing, i dont recognize their right to do it. period.
Then either go without, or be prepared to work for free yourself, asshole.
No. Just no. Simply because I don't agree with your idea that pirating assholes are entitled to the work of others without compensation, I'm a "control freak"?
If you're going to use someone's work, then you should pay them for it, plain and simple. If you don't want to pay, don't use it. End of story.
After a length of time which the author is allowed to try and make money off it. Pirating assholes are trying to tell the author that they don't even get that.
What?
Absolutely nothing in your post makes a lick of sense.
Actually, I do deserve the work for free, at some point.
That point is quite a ways off. While I agree that current copyright terms are far too long, the point is, most pirates are benefiting from the work long before any reasonable copyright terms would have worn off.
Ok, and how about we get you to work for free? Because that's what you're expecting the author to do. What's that? You don't want to work for free? Well then why should piracy, which makes the author work for free, be ok then?
I'm sorry, but you're saying "There's no right to profit" in a thread talking about others feeling entitled to the works of others for free. That makes your point worthless.
While an author doesn't have an immediate "right to profit", if you take/use/read/whatever their work, you should pay them for it. If you don't want to pay them for it, go without the work. Anything else is the "market" failing.
Why don't we dispel the idea that you're entitled to someone else's work for free? If you don't want to pay for it, why not go without?