What about being decieved, how do you know an "evil deciever" isnt ruling you without you being aware... or would you consider that all a person needs to be free is to think they are free ?
"Personally I didn't grow up with much money but after talking with a lot of people from Rissia and Cuba I'm glad I live in a capitalist society."
Talking about Cuba, wernt they the first country to announce they were moving to the new light globes, im sure i read about them doing it long before i read about any western country doing it.
If we get a computer to behave or think like a rat, should a rat get the same rights of protection that a computer does...
I think its important to keep in mind that humans (and any other organic life) are a mind and a body, its a deep philosophical question to consider if a brain can be a mind without a body, and it is the human mind that we value, not just the brain, hardware is useless without software.
I think it would be more useful to talk about human behavior models rather than artificial agents (or artificial intelligence)
"You think that every reseller of an integrated hardware/software system (or hardware/firmware) has to be licensed to "distribute" the software (firmware) component?"
So if load up a PC with a copy of windows i bought in a back alley in china for $1 and "resell" the hardware/software in the US then im legally in the clear, and its only the guy in china that can get in trouble ?
Copyright laws dont just magically disappear just because one commercial transaction has taken place.
Perhaps your confused as a lot of commercial software licences are tied to specific pieces of hardware.
You can already use all YOUR code for free, if its your code you can do what you want with it. You can USE other peoples GPL code for free as well, the GPL doesnt restrict usage. You can even modify it for free already, but you can only distribute the resulting work as a service (ASP loophole).
Did you mean "Now I modify other peoples code, not share the modifications and distribute the resulting work on my own terms! Yeah!", well yea, but why would you, you would have still have to compete with GPL'ed version and you would loose all the benefits of collaboration.
The FSF has been around for a long time, they share passionate and ideological belief that represents hundreds of thousands of developers and tens of millions of users, the value of the code would be; a lot. If power was going to corrupt them i expect it would have done so already. I would suggest you and your "small army of rebels" would probably have more chance of taking over microsoft and freeing their code...
Well, what if it DOES make society safer? Safer for society as a whole, or safer for the elites ?
is there a balance of some sort to be found? A perception of balance... balance according to which perspective ?
What's a good place to draw the line? Does there have to be a "line", can freedom vs security be seen in black and white ?
People always repeat the "he who sacrifices liberty for security..." line, but what would a better solution be? Those with power will always say they need more of it, how can those with power be prevented from abusing it ?
Zero policing? Is there any point having laws if they aren't enforced ?
No laws? If there were no state imposed laws would human behaviour still be government by morality/ethics, are they laws ?
Absolute freedom? Is freedom a state of mind ?
Would that mean complete chaos and anarchy, and if so, is the freedom still worth it? Does anarchy imply chaos, or just a lack of authority ? Do humans have the ability to abandon all order ? How would you describe chaos in a society ? Is freedom an abstract concept, if so, on what terms do you value it ?
Why? I could answer that, but i have to go.
I look forward to rexchanging opinions again in the future.
"World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or..."
So they count people who arent paying them money at the moment, but have in the past.... they say "paid a subscription fee", the ydont say when they paid it, or if the subscription has expired.
If there are 9.3 Mil subscribers and an average 10000 players per server, that would mean they have 930 servers
Developers are people, they cant be moved around like currency.
Scratch an itch: People program from inspiration and/or motivation, if this is how these developers are willing to donate their time to the community who are we to say they should try and do something else.
The free software community is not a monoculture, competition amoungst projects can lead to higher quality software for all those competing.
Java spec has been open as in look but dont touch, remember how microsoft got their arses kicked for modifying the spec... but anyway, its pretty hard to have a closed spec for a languange and expect people to adopt it, they didnt have a choice.
Sun did have a choice of open sourcing their java _code_ and rumours went around for about five years before they actually did anything.
1. It takes years for a corporation to do something related to a press release. 2. Press release was only released weeks ago. 3. FAKE
Im going to stay in JAVA (sum microsystems) world where corporate decisions happen at a snails pace and impeded the companies operations for years (case in point open sourcing of java)
"Because when Heads of State violently die it tends to cause chaos, political/economic instability and/or wars."
And if the world is already in chaos, political(lame duck president in US, AUS PM might loose his own seat in a few months)/economic instability(non-prime lending, reserve banks around the world trying to hold it together) and/or wars (iraq, afganistan and others that dont get convenient media coverage) ?
Slashdot Mirror
What about being decieved, how do you know an "evil deciever" isnt ruling you without you being aware... or would you consider that all a person needs to be free is to think they are free ?
"Personally I didn't grow up with much money but after talking with a lot of people from Rissia and Cuba I'm glad I live in a capitalist society."
Talking about Cuba, wernt they the first country to announce they were moving to the new light globes, im sure i read about them doing it long before i read about any western country doing it.
Strange they never get mentioned...
"Wow, so you're telling me that I should consent to be ruled"
To be ruled doesnt require consent, no point takign the discussion any further unless we can agree on this.
Consider the question in different terms.
If we get a computer to behave or think like a rat, should a rat get the same rights of protection that a computer does...
I think its important to keep in mind that humans (and any other organic life) are a mind and a body, its a deep philosophical question to consider if a brain can be a mind without a body, and it is the human mind that we value, not just the brain, hardware is useless without software.
I think it would be more useful to talk about human behavior models rather than artificial agents (or artificial intelligence)
"Voting is a lottery. It isn't the will of the "majority" or the "will of the people". Voting is a gamble..."
The strength of democracy is not its tendency to elect great leaders, its the ease at which you can get rid of the bad ones.
When you think about it, it doesnt matter how a leader gets power, whats important is whether they are good leader and if you can get rid of them.
So dont think of it as voting for someone, think of it as voting against the government (or not).
"Unless Verizon knew, orchestrated, or had reason to suspect that Actiontec was violating its license terms, it has nothing to do with this."
Well they know now dont they, so they have to abide by the license, agreed ?
"Pfft. Which part of "integrated" didn't you understand?"
The part that means "get out of jail free"
"You think that every reseller of an integrated hardware/software system (or hardware/firmware) has to be licensed to "distribute" the software (firmware) component?"
So if load up a PC with a copy of windows i bought in a back alley in china for $1 and "resell" the hardware/software in the US then im legally in the clear, and its only the guy in china that can get in trouble ?
Copyright laws dont just magically disappear just because one commercial transaction has taken place.
Perhaps your confused as a lot of commercial software licences are tied to specific pieces of hardware.
IT would be fair if Darl and Co were in Jail for the next 20 years for extortion and fraud related crimes
So then someone adds those same few small features to the open source version and then nobody buys your crappy software.
"Now I use all my code for free! Yeah!"
You can already use all YOUR code for free, if its your code you can do what you want with it. You can USE other peoples GPL code for free as well, the GPL doesnt restrict usage. You can even modify it for free already, but you can only distribute the resulting work as a service (ASP loophole).
Did you mean "Now I modify other peoples code, not share the modifications and distribute the resulting work on my own terms! Yeah!", well yea, but why would you, you would have still have to compete with GPL'ed version and you would loose all the benefits of collaboration.
The FSF has been around for a long time, they share passionate and ideological belief that represents hundreds of thousands of developers and tens of millions of users, the value of the code would be; a lot. If power was going to corrupt them i expect it would have done so already. I would suggest you and your "small army of rebels" would probably have more chance of taking over microsoft and freeing their code...
You know, this almost sounds like a troll. Well, I'm taking the bait. I hope it turns into an actual discussion.
In your first post you were being indirect by responding with questions, so i did the same to try and make a point.
It was a bit of a troll.... nothing personal.
Well, what if it DOES make society safer?
Safer for society as a whole, or safer for the elites ?
is there a balance of some sort to be found?
A perception of balance... balance according to which perspective ?
What's a good place to draw the line?
Does there have to be a "line", can freedom vs security be seen in black and white ?
People always repeat the "he who sacrifices liberty for security..." line, but what would a better solution be?
Those with power will always say they need more of it, how can those with power be prevented from abusing it ?
Zero policing?
Is there any point having laws if they aren't enforced ?
No laws?
If there were no state imposed laws would human behaviour still be government by morality/ethics, are they laws ?
Absolute freedom?
Is freedom a state of mind ?
Would that mean complete chaos and anarchy, and if so, is the freedom still worth it?
Does anarchy imply chaos, or just a lack of authority ?
Do humans have the ability to abandon all order ?
How would you describe chaos in a society ?
Is freedom an abstract concept, if so, on what terms do you value it ?
Why?
I could answer that, but i have to go.
I look forward to rexchanging opinions again in the future.
Fair enough... i guess i just noobed out.
"I fail to see what's so horribly wrong with the status quo that it needs to be changed, other then "it's not fair that the US has veto powers!"
So you can see one reason why its horribly wrong, how many do you need ?
"World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or ..."
So they count people who arent paying them money at the moment, but have in the past.... they say "paid a subscription fee", the ydont say when they paid it, or if the subscription has expired.
If there are 9.3 Mil subscribers and an average 10000 players per server, that would mean they have 930 servers
"Due to idealogical beliefs that border on religious extremism you can't just install the drivers."
I think we are starting to see the end of the extremism, AMD are pulling ATI into line, hopefully Intel do the same to NVIDIA.
If there was more competition these hardware extremists that refuse to tell people how to make their chips works would be driven out of the market.
"OK, it's unrealistic to believe that New Zealand would let anyone write the law. That would lead to anarchy."
Quite the opposite.
Anarchy is the absense in laws, so letting anyone write laws would move New Zealand further away from anarchy.
Allowing anyone to repeal laws might lead to anarchy.
"wearing something that may or may not be a bomb"
Like say, a t-shirt, a t-shirt may or may not be a bomb...
"There's no reason to duplicate effort:"
Developers are people, they cant be moved around like currency.
Scratch an itch: People program from inspiration and/or motivation, if this is how these developers are willing to donate their time to the community
who are we to say they should try and do something else.
The free software community is not a monoculture, competition amoungst projects can lead to higher quality software for all those competing.
Disaster like the windows disaster... It would give market dominance though.
Java spec has been open as in look but dont touch, remember how microsoft got their arses kicked for modifying the spec... but anyway, its pretty hard to have a closed spec for a languange and expect people to adopt it, they didnt have a choice.
Sun did have a choice of open sourcing their java _code_ and rumours went around for about five years before they actually did anything.
1. It takes years for a corporation to do something related to a press release.
2. Press release was only released weeks ago.
3. FAKE
Im going to stay in JAVA (sum microsystems) world where corporate decisions happen at a snails pace and impeded the companies operations for years (case in point open sourcing of java)
Sarcasm Inside
"Because when Heads of State violently die it tends to cause chaos, political/economic instability and/or wars."
And if the world is already in chaos, political(lame duck president in US, AUS PM might loose his own seat in a few months)/economic instability(non-prime lending, reserve banks around the world trying to hold it together) and/or wars (iraq, afganistan and others that dont get convenient media coverage) ?
Did the judge really say it was stealing ?
AFAIK stealing is the MPAA/RIAA propaganda term for copyright infringment and is not the correct legal term.
As a start we should try not to be propaganda victims.